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Post by dirtdog on May 17, 2017 23:16:30 GMT -5
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Post by dirtdog on May 17, 2017 23:17:13 GMT -5
That Shaw trade is looking brutal right now.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on May 18, 2017 2:44:00 GMT -5
If he returns in time to help a playoff run, not so brutal. On the other hand, the Mayor of the mystical city, friend of the B-Boys, 3B/1B solid defender, cost-controlled, hitting well with 25HR pop, etc. Is a loss under the circumstances. Might have been a better cboice than Rutledge, Hernandez, Marrero to back up Panda and Mitchie Two Bags. (who says great baseball namea are things of the past?). This is especially true with talent coming up from AAA and AA (in addition to Scott and Taylor). Hindsight is a bitch.
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Post by sibbysisti on May 18, 2017 7:22:59 GMT -5
What's remarkable is that, without Thornburg and Carson Smith, they've been able to hold this bullpen together to where it is one of the best in baseball at this point. Developing Ben Taylor and Robbie Scott into effective relievers has also been a key to the 'pen's success.
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geostorm
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Post by geostorm on Jun 1, 2017 15:33:51 GMT -5
If he returns in time to help a playoff run, not so brutal. On the other hand, the Mayor of the mystical city, friend of the B-Boys, 3B/1B solid defender, cost-controlled, hitting well with 25HR pop, etc. Is a loss under the circumstances. Might have been a better choice than Rutledge, Hernandez, Marrero to back up Panda and Mitchie Two Bags. (who says great baseball names are things of the past?). This is especially true with talent coming up from AAA and AA (in addition to Scott and Taylor). Hindsight is a bitch. ...and, on the other hand - if you will allow for a third hand! - there's also "this" to factor in the assessment of this deal - www.milb.com/milb/news/milwaukee-brewers-mauricio-dubon-fitting-in-quickly/c-233543252/t-185364810
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 1, 2017 20:46:05 GMT -5
Ok so the line is Thornburg had a weak arm in the spring caused, supposedly, by not following the prescribed off-season regimen the Sox laid out. He then embarked on a rigorous supervised strength training program that somehow resulted in shoulder impingement. That diagnosis came some 2 months ago. There has been little, if any, progress since. He can throw a distance from home to second but not with any umph.
I think a medical update is warranted. Exactly what is the nature of the impingement and how is it being treated? What is the prognosis and timetable for recovery? Is surgery an option? If so, when will a decision be made?
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Post by michael on Jun 2, 2017 10:45:27 GMT -5
Request a Special Prosecutor to determine Who knew what and when did they know it
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Post by chrisfromnc on Jun 2, 2017 15:03:19 GMT -5
Travis Shaw = .292/.335/.526, 9HR, 4SB. If it makes anyone feel better he has four errors. Unfortunately Red Sox third basemen this year have 75 errors (or so it seems).
If I was a little kid and believed in birthday wishes, I would wish that Chili Davis could transform Marrero into an average hitter.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 2, 2017 15:33:00 GMT -5
Interesting, Shaw's May was almost exactly the same as his April, with the exception of 10 more singles falling in.
Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+ April 23 23 97 90 11 23 8 1 5 18 2 0 5 20 .256 .299 .533 .832 48 6 1 0 1 0 1 .273 91 125 May 24 24 105 99 14 33 8 0 4 18 2 0 6 23 .333 .371 .535 .907 53 0 0 0 0 1 0 .403 112 140
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Post by congusgambler33 on Jun 2, 2017 19:40:26 GMT -5
Interesting, Shaw's May was almost exactly the same as his April, with the exception of 10 more singles falling in. Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+ April 23 23 97 90 11 23 8 1 5 18 2 0 5 20 .256 .299 .533 .832 48 6 1 0 1 0 1 .273 91 125 May 24 24 105 99 14 33 8 0 4 18 2 0 6 23 .333 .371 .535 .907 53 0 0 0 0 1 0 .403 112 140 Sox really did their homework on this trade. Shaw, right now is making this trade look sick and with Dubon and Pennington added in, how could you not think this trade is nothing but a disaster.
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 2, 2017 20:40:41 GMT -5
Interesting, Shaw's May was almost exactly the same as his April, with the exception of 10 more singles falling in. Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+ April 23 23 97 90 11 23 8 1 5 18 2 0 5 20 .256 .299 .533 .832 48 6 1 0 1 0 1 .273 91 125 May 24 24 105 99 14 33 8 0 4 18 2 0 6 23 .333 .371 .535 .907 53 0 0 0 0 1 0 .403 112 140 Sox really did their homework on this trade. Shaw, right now is making this trade look sick and with Dubon and Pennington added in, how could you not think this trade is nothing but a disaster. Have you looked at what Shaw did the 2nd half of last year? There is no reason to believe he continues this. He has huge holes in his swing and eventually pitchers swill find it. They did in the American League, they will in the NL - or they should.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 2, 2017 20:56:20 GMT -5
Request a Special Prosecutor to determine Who knew what and when did they know it Hey guy I appreciate your agreement. Thanks. You usually have sagacious comments. Thornburg has been out since March and the hope is that he might be available by September... You agree that this is not a normal injury, is shrouded in mystery given the length of recovery and the absence of readily available detail to most. I would like to know specifics given the multiple prospects surrendered and the expected lengthy loss of Thornburg's service. Do you have more info to share or are you smugly keeping it to yourself?
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Post by jmei on Jun 3, 2017 12:22:15 GMT -5
Sox really did their homework on this trade. Shaw, right now is making this trade look sick and with Dubon and Pennington added in, how could you not think this trade is nothing but a disaster. Have you looked at what Shaw did the 2nd half of last year? There is no reason to believe he continues this. He has huge holes in his swing and eventually pitchers swill find it. They did in the American League, they will in the NL - or they should. Just curious, what would you set his rest of season line at?
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Post by iakovos11 on Jun 3, 2017 14:02:49 GMT -5
Have you looked at what Shaw did the 2nd half of last year? There is no reason to believe he continues this. He has huge holes in his swing and eventually pitchers swill find it. They did in the American League, they will in the NL - or they should. Just curious, what would you set his rest of season line at? Not sure I would expect him to do much better than last year in the 2nd half, would you? He hit .194/.259/.360/.619 in the 2nd half last year. I'd expect a slight improvement, from experience & Brewers probably giving him a longer leash. But his performance and scouting profile don't give me any reason to expect his current line to continue. So let's say he puts up .207/.271/.367/.638 line the rest of the year - or the roughly the 2nd half of the year. He was REALLY bad at times for Boston last year. I think his big problem was that he acted as if he had been slighted when they looked for other options at times or he got more time off. I think he was given a pretty long leash for someone with his pedigree. I am surprised he's doing this well so far in Milwaukee, but I didn't expect him to help carry the Sox offense during April and May last year either. We'll see.
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Post by m1keyboots on Jun 3, 2017 14:44:48 GMT -5
Shaw ended up eith respectable numbers because he was hot as a tire iron in parts of the first half. But even when the Sox offense really started clicking when Mookie, Hanley, and Papi went bonkers offensively in the second half (as well as solid contributions from benintendi, and Pedroia with his singles barrage) apart from the occasional long pulled home run he was constantly hitting soft ground balls into the shift and striking out it seems like every series
The holes are there. I dont think the American League holds the patent for High inside hard stuff and low inside breaking balls.
Of course with Thornburg hurt this looks bad, but I like the trade and you can never make or not make trades responsibly by guessing or not that someone would get hurt. People seem to forget how effective Tyler Thornburg was with his two plus breaking pitches and an above-average fastball
I think of the games blown by Barnes or Hembree (whom I like both dont get me wrong) and wonder whether or not we would have six or seven more wins this year just based on that alone. Including our terrible production from third base.
Edit_ I guess you can consider his changeup an off speed and not a breaking pitch. Also I misspelled with. Still excited for when Carson and Thornburg come back to see what this Bullpen looks like
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 3, 2017 16:16:32 GMT -5
“@smittyonmlb: Tyler Thornburg throwing long toss at 90 feet.”
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Post by bosox81 on Jun 3, 2017 18:01:03 GMT -5
Nobody knows exactly who Travis Shaw is or will be. All we know so far is informed by SSS. We might as well say that DD dealt yet another prospect.
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Post by sarasoxer on Jun 5, 2017 8:11:07 GMT -5
“@smittyonmlb: Tyler Thornburg throwing long toss at 90 feet.” Not sure that 90 qualifies as long toss especially three months in...That is home to first.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 5, 2017 9:18:04 GMT -5
“@smittyonmlb: Tyler Thornburg throwing long toss at 90 feet.” Not sure that 90 qualifies as long toss especially three months in...That is home to first. Yeah, I don't think I've never heard that used to describe playing catch at 90 feet. That said, Smith was a little bit more careful with his terminology in the article: www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2017/06/tyler_thornburg_boston_red_sox_9.htmlHe was at 120 earlier in his rehab before setbacks, and they want him throwing actual long toss at 150 before throwing a bullpen.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 5, 2017 9:44:10 GMT -5
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Jun 5, 2017 9:55:05 GMT -5
The gift that keeps on giving!
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Post by James Dunne on Jun 5, 2017 9:58:34 GMT -5
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Post by doctorduck21 on Jun 5, 2017 10:24:41 GMT -5
I liked Thornburg. Liked the trade since I thought Shaw and Dubon were back ups. However I think you should almost never trade for relievers. Just never know what you're gonna get. I'm not anti-DD but this lack of depth is gonna be the Sox's undoing. Maybe we need to be a bit more careful with trading for players with spotty medicals. Health is a skill
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Post by station13 on Jun 5, 2017 10:32:33 GMT -5
Chances he plays a game in the major before Thornburg throws a pitch for the Red Sox?
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Post by jmei on Jun 5, 2017 11:10:41 GMT -5
Just curious, what would you set his rest of season line at? Not sure I would expect him to do much better than last year in the 2nd half, would you? He hit .194/.259/.360/.619 in the 2nd half last year. I'd expect a slight improvement, from experience & Brewers probably giving him a longer leash. But his performance and scouting profile don't give me any reason to expect his current line to continue. So let's say he puts up .207/.271/.367/.638 line the rest of the year - or the roughly the 2nd half of the year. He was REALLY bad at times for Boston last year. I think his big problem was that he acted as if he had been slighted when they looked for other options at times or he got more time off. I think he was given a pretty long leash for someone with his pedigree. I am surprised he's doing this well so far in Milwaukee, but I didn't expect him to help carry the Sox offense during April and May last year either. We'll see. I'll easily take the over. I wouldn't buy in quite so much to the "the league figured him out" narrative. Shaw has always been a streaky hitter (he has a long swing and a timing step that is prone to getting out of whack), and it's very possible that his second half decline last year was just a run-of-the-mill cold streak (note that his peripherals (K%, BB%, ISO) didn't drop all that much, and his decline was largely BABIP-driven) than it was representative of his true talent level going forward.
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