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6/9-6/11 Red Sox vs. Tigers Series Thread
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 10, 2017 9:37:11 GMT -5
Regardless that the Sox got a out or not, the Sox need a new third baseman. Pablo doesn't have the range of a third baseman, he can't field the balls hit at him a lot, his throws are erratic, he can't hit at all right handed, he doesn't hit well enough to keep him in the lineup versus RHP. Am I missing anything on Pablo? Bring up Devers, trade for Moustakas, trade for anyone else. It doesn't natter. Just finally DFA Sandoval. It's coming. Not coming soon enough imo. Here's a article of everything Pablo did wrong just defensively last night (nevermind the 0-4 at the plate)- www.weei.com/articles/pablo-sandovals-defensive-struggles-are-backing-red-sox-corner
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 10, 2017 10:25:16 GMT -5
The Red Sox have a need for David Price and Rick Porcello to be solid contributors. Without that the Red Sox won't have enough pitching to go far. And yes, 3b needs to be stabilized. Also Hanley Ramirez needs to hit like he did in the 2nd half of last year, although I don't think his shoulder will allow him to. I don't think he's been right all year. Agree that David and Rick need to step up. My concern is that the bullpen gets burned out, if they don't step up. 3B is a black hole right now. I would love for Devers to step up and live up to his hype, but I am equally concerned that a premature promotion could derail his development. Don't know what is up with HanRam, but to date he has been the biggest disappointment for me. Good point. The corollary to a Price/Porcello struggle is that it makes things tougher on the pen. The pen has pretty good numbers, certainly bolstered by Craig Kimbrel, but the Red Sox need another pitcher to step up and support Kimbrel directly as the go-to-guy so Farrell doesn't burn out Kimbrel, something he's already aware of. I think the Red Sox might actually have that guy as Joe Kelly seems to have his arm raised as if to say I'm your guy, but Barnes still has that not over Kelly. If Carson Smith (or more unlikely Thornburg) can come back and be what they were they could free Barnes up for more longer middle relief duty in tandem with Hembree so that Kelly and Smith can be the bridge to Kimbrel. The best thing that could happen to the pen is the addition of a healthy and effective Smith and Thornburg, but still if Price and Porcello are giving up the longball too much, burying the Sox early, it will hurt the pen. I think Devers could come up in July and be mediocre or perhaps adequate, which would be a big improvement upon Sandoval/Marrero/Rutledge. I'd hate to see his development hampered. He's been working hard with Carlos Febles to improve his defense, and the work has been paying off from what I understand. My guess is Frazier or Moustakas is coming our way? Dombrowski prefers bigger names to the less sexier names like Freese or Lowrie, etc. I just have to wonder with whom (plural?) that Dombrowski will overpay with. If he trades Ockimey or Chavis I will be quite ticked off. I would guess Swihart is the most likely to go? As far as Hanley goes, I really think the guy is hurt, that his shoulder isn't right. He was injured in 2015 but the narrative was that he was a lazy malingering bum which seems to suit the WEEI fan base better. Hanley, during the 2nd half of last season, was a monster, and he was completely healthy. I don't think he is right now, so of course, he's a lazy malingering bum right now. I hope his shoulder is alright. If it gets alright and he locks in, he could have another big second half. If he isn't alright then I expect more of 2015 minus the brutal defense.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 10, 2017 10:26:11 GMT -5
True, but a desperate Dave Dombrowski is a scary Dave Dombrowski. Fear for your prospects.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jun 10, 2017 11:15:28 GMT -5
It would be a pretty big mistake on Dombroski's part to go " all in" for the Red Sox in 2017. This team is one of the worst hitting teams in MLB and the bullpen will soon be operating on fumes as every starter with the exception of Sale appears to be a 5 or 6 inning pitcher on a good day.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 10, 2017 11:28:00 GMT -5
After having a front row seat to the Carl Crawford fiasco, then getting a first-hand chance to undo it almost completely, Ben Cherington repeated the fiasco with Pablo Sandoval then got fired. The end.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 10, 2017 12:13:15 GMT -5
As others have noted, Farrell is using his best setup guy - Kelly at this point - correctly. That is to say he's using him in higher leverage situations. Posters need to set aside the stale idea that there are inning-defined roles. That is just silly. There is nothing special about being an 8th inning versus a 7th inning reliever.
Yesterday, Kelly faced the heart of the Tiger order. He struck out Cabrera, walked Victor Martinez who has the best plate discipline and contact skills of anyone on that team, then he struck out J.D. Martinez and got Upton to ground out weakly to short for a force. The way he K'd Cabrera and Martinez was an eye-opener, for me. He hammered that deadly slider over the outside corner, and then absolutely tied them up with blazing heat at the top of the zone, putting the fastball where they couldn't resist, but couldn't get to either.
His stuff constantly has me shaking my head. Here's a guy who puts a lie to the idea that you need to be 6' 5" and weigh 230 to power the ball over the plate. He doesn't even look to be his listed 190 lbs. Yet his arm is pure rubber as far as I can tell, and he always brings the fastball and the breaking stuff. He just didn't know where any of that was going for most of his career. If those days are behind him, he's a tremendous asset. He can tie batters up in knots as he did yesterday.
I'm still on the fence about the guy, but what's on the other side of that fence looks very bright.
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Post by p23w on Jun 10, 2017 12:44:54 GMT -5
As others have noted, Farrell is using his best setup guy - Kelly at this point - correctly. That is to say he's using him in higher leverage situations. Posters need to set aside the stale idea that there are inning-defined roles. That is just silly. There is nothing special about being an 8 th inning versus a 7 th inning reliever. Yesterday, Kelly faced the heart of the Tiger order. He struck out Cabrera, walked Victor Martinez who has the best plate discipline and contact skills of anyone on that team, then he struck out J.D. Martinez and got Upton to ground out weakly to short for a force. The way he K'd Cabrera and Martinez was an eye-opener, for me. He hammered that deadly slider over the outside corner, and then absolutely tied them up with blazing heat at the top of the zone, putting the fastball where they couldn't resist, but couldn't get to either. His stuff constantly has me shaking my head. Here's a guy who puts a lie to the idea that you need to be 6' 5" and weigh 230 to power the ball over the plate. He doesn't even look to be his listed 190 lbs. Yet his arm is pure rubber as far as I can tell, and he always brings the fastball and the breaking stuff. He just didn't know where any of that was going for most of his career. If those days are behind him, he's a tremendous asset. He can tie batters up in knots as he did yesterday. I'm still on the fence about the guy, but what's on the other side of that fence looks very bright. I agree that JF is using the pen (more or less) correctly at this point. What I would like to see would be that he extend Kelly for 5-6 outs on those occasions when the starter is pulled before 5 innings. Again this decision would be dictated situationally, and may result in using Kelly in an emergency the following day, however of all the relievers not named Kimbral, when Kelly is on, he is good for 30+ pitches of dominance.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,154
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Post by radiohix on Jun 10, 2017 14:31:53 GMT -5
Fat Pablo is sitting vs a RH pitcher today (with a LHP on the mound tomorrow). Yeah, he's in trouble.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 10, 2017 15:06:43 GMT -5
True, but a desperate Dave Dombrowski is a scary Dave Dombrowski. Fear for your prospects. Well it's not hard to improve on Sandoval. Just DFA'ing him probably makes the team better.
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pd
Rookie
Posts: 236
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Post by pd on Jun 10, 2017 15:39:13 GMT -5
What about Court at 3rd? Hitting well, but a high babip so it may be a mirage. Scouting report describes him as an "error prone" corner infielder, which sounds like he'd fit perfectly.
Anybody seen him play of late?
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Post by Guidas on Jun 10, 2017 15:53:58 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Jun 10, 2017 15:59:01 GMT -5
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Post by m1keyboots on Jun 10, 2017 16:11:56 GMT -5
Agree that David and Rick need to step up. My concern is that the bullpen gets burned out, if they don't step up. 3B is a black hole right now. I would love for Devers to step up and live up to his hype, but I am equally concerned that a premature promotion could derail his development. Don't know what is up with HanRam, but to date he has been the biggest disappointment for me. Good point. The corollary to a Price/Porcello struggle is that it makes things tougher on the pen. The pen has pretty good numbers, certainly bolstered by Craig Kimbrel, but the Red Sox need another pitcher to step up and support Kimbrel directly as the go-to-guy so Farrell doesn't burn out Kimbrel, something he's already aware of. I think the Red Sox might actually have that guy as Joe Kelly seems to have his arm raised as if to say I'm your guy, but Barnes still has that not over Kelly. If Carson Smith (or more unlikely Thornburg) can come back and be what they were they could free Barnes up for more longer middle relief duty in tandem with Hembree so that Kelly and Smith can be the bridge to Kimbrel. The best thing that could happen to the pen is the addition of a healthy and effective Smith and Thornburg, but still if Price and Porcello are giving up the longball too much, burying the Sox early, it will hurt the pen. I think Devers could come up in July and be mediocre or perhaps adequate, which would be a big improvement upon Sandoval/Marrero/Rutledge. I'd hate to see his development hampered. He's been working hard with Carlos Febles to improve his defense, and the work has been paying off from what I understand. My guess is Frazier or Moustakas is coming our way? Dombrowski prefers bigger names to the less sexier names like Freese or Lowrie, etc. I just have to wonder with whom (plural?) that Dombrowski will overpay with. If he trades Ockimey or Chavis I will be quite ticked off. I would guess Swihart is the most likely to go? As far as Hanley goes, I really think the guy is hurt, that his shoulder isn't right. He was injured in 2015 but the narrative was that he was a lazy malingering bum which seems to suit the WEEI fan base better. Hanley, during the 2nd half of last season, was a monster, and he was completely healthy. I don't think he is right now, so of course, he's a lazy malingering bum right now. I hope his shoulder is alright. If it gets alright and he locks in, he could have another big second half. If he isn't alright then I expect more of 2015 minus the brutal defense. When it comes to Hanley, a 3 day hot streak and WEEI will jump on thethe HanRam bandwagon like no one was there. Personally I dont think the Bosox paid Hanley to best out grounders (which he did last night). For some fans or whatever they call themselves the sox only seem to be satisfying when there is discord, or mounting losses. For the really sick ones, that can even include injury.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 10, 2017 16:12:56 GMT -5
I think it's time to bring up Devers. After all, he's blocking Chavis.
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Post by soxfan2015 on Jun 10, 2017 18:01:19 GMT -5
The game is supposed to be on fox but the Yankees are on here in Connecticut. Any idea what station the game would be on?
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Post by p23w on Jun 10, 2017 18:04:51 GMT -5
Good point. The corollary to a Price/Porcello struggle is that it makes things tougher on the pen. The pen has pretty good numbers, certainly bolstered by Craig Kimbrel, but the Red Sox need another pitcher to step up and support Kimbrel directly as the go-to-guy so Farrell doesn't burn out Kimbrel, something he's already aware of. I think the Red Sox might actually have that guy as Joe Kelly seems to have his arm raised as if to say I'm your guy, but Barnes still has that not over Kelly. If Carson Smith (or more unlikely Thornburg) can come back and be what they were they could free Barnes up for more longer middle relief duty in tandem with Hembree so that Kelly and Smith can be the bridge to Kimbrel. The best thing that could happen to the pen is the addition of a healthy and effective Smith and Thornburg, but still if Price and Porcello are giving up the longball too much, burying the Sox early, it will hurt the pen. I think Devers could come up in July and be mediocre or perhaps adequate, which would be a big improvement upon Sandoval/Marrero/Rutledge. I'd hate to see his development hampered. He's been working hard with Carlos Febles to improve his defense, and the work has been paying off from what I understand. My guess is Frazier or Moustakas is coming our way? Dombrowski prefers bigger names to the less sexier names like Freese or Lowrie, etc. I just have to wonder with whom (plural?) that Dombrowski will overpay with. If he trades Ockimey or Chavis I will be quite ticked off. I would guess Swihart is the most likely to go? As far as Hanley goes, I really think the guy is hurt, that his shoulder isn't right. He was injured in 2015 but the narrative was that he was a lazy malingering bum which seems to suit the WEEI fan base better. Hanley, during the 2nd half of last season, was a monster, and he was completely healthy. I don't think he is right now, so of course, he's a lazy malingering bum right now. I hope his shoulder is alright. If it gets alright and he locks in, he could have another big second half. If he isn't alright then I expect more of 2015 minus the brutal defense. When it comes to Hanley, a 3 day hot streak and WEEI will jump on thethe HanRam bandwagon like no one was there. Personally I dont think the Bosox paid Hanley to best out grounders (which he did last night). For some fans or whatever they call themselves the sox only seem to be satisfying when there is discord, or mounting losses. For the really sick ones, that can even include injury. My expectations for Hanley are/were based on his second half of 2016. Perhaps this was a "rose colored glasses" observation on my behalf. I know nothing concerning any physical issues he may (or may not) be experiencing. My concern is what I perceive to be the lack of quality of his AB.s. Perhaps I was spoiled by Ortiz, but Hanley is not David. I also percieve Ramirez to be guessing too frequently. Every hitter "guesses" on occasion but my expectation was that a hitter with Hanley's experience would be a better "guesser" at this stage of his career. When Boegarts, Betts and Benenitendi were watching Ortiz I had the impression they were learning. I find it difficult to believe that any hitters watching Ramirez learn anything of value at this point in time. Perhaps I should simply readjust my expectations.
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Post by rafael on Jun 10, 2017 18:17:31 GMT -5
AJP is the color guy doing this game. I have a bad feeling about this one.
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atzar
Veteran
Posts: 1,817
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Post by atzar on Jun 10, 2017 18:24:49 GMT -5
What a catch by JBJ. Saved at least one run.
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Post by DesignatedKyle on Jun 10, 2017 18:55:03 GMT -5
Jackie has been so incredibly unlucky this year. He's pounding the ball
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Post by station13 on Jun 10, 2017 19:39:49 GMT -5
No one around for Sale/Verlander match up?
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Post by marrcus on Jun 10, 2017 19:51:17 GMT -5
I think Verlander had Moreland struck out last inning but didn't get the call. Fortunate to get those two runs.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,154
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Post by radiohix on Jun 10, 2017 20:06:14 GMT -5
Iglesias is the the right handed ichiro
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Post by marrcus on Jun 10, 2017 20:16:06 GMT -5
Ben' tuned up the concentration here which is nice to see after he's been overmatched. Skinny run lead is back.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,154
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Post by radiohix on Jun 10, 2017 20:17:56 GMT -5
Hanley ramirez is hitting .135 for 2 weeks now.
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Post by wesmantooth on Jun 10, 2017 20:19:11 GMT -5
Really think Ortiz was the only thing keeping Hanley engaged. Dude seems to have completely gone back to dogging it this year.
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