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6/16-6/18 Red Sox @ Astros Series Thread
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 16, 2017 22:22:52 GMT -5
The Sox gain a game against everyone in the division except for the Yankees, who are still playing.
What a big win against a great team.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 16, 2017 22:23:04 GMT -5
Excellent. Looks like Kimbrel had Beltran on the 4th pitch. Great way to start this series. Credit to Dwew, also.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 16, 2017 22:23:20 GMT -5
Great win! They actually out played and out pitched Houston tonight.
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Post by jackiebradleyjrjr on Jun 16, 2017 22:24:10 GMT -5
Wow.... I'll take the win but that was ugly in many areas. Still a win so 🤗
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 16, 2017 22:34:35 GMT -5
I never liked Roger Donut, even before the drug allegations, but he was very good as the color man on the radio broadcast.
Interesting comment near the end, you can hear the spin on high spin rate pitches from the dugout.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 16, 2017 22:43:23 GMT -5
Wow.... I'll take the win but that was ugly in many areas. Still a win so 🤗 Not sure what you mean. Very good game for the starter, excellent relief work, and decent defense. If you're thinking of the runners in scoring position not being driven across, that has a significant random element.
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Post by jackiebradleyjrjr on Jun 16, 2017 23:26:16 GMT -5
Wow.... I'll take the win but that was ugly in many areas. Still a win so 🤗 Not sure what you mean. Very good game for the starter, excellent relief work, and decent defense. If you're thinking of the runners in scoring position not being driven across, that has a significant random element. I wouldn't call Barnes and Kelly's work excellent. Yes, neither gave up a run (not a small achievement in a tight game; as a Nats fan as well I'd kill for either of these guys in the Nats bullpen). But Kelly looked very shaky. Barnes somewhat as well. Two relievers giving up four base runners in 1 2/3 is ugly, no matter how much lipstick you put on it. Plus two stolen bases in those two innings. It's great that both sucked it up and held the Houston to zero runs, but you aren't going to win too many beauty contests with that. I also don't think situational hitting is a significant random event. Yes, there is some randomness in it-- what part of baseball isn't a degree of randomness? But situational hitting also has an element of skill that this team has shown thus far to be consistently lacking. Runner at third, one out. Bad hitting by jbj, by running by young, and routledge getting mowed down in three pitches is ugly baseball. I don't want to be overly harsh considering we just beat a very good team in their park. I'll take ugly winning baseball over losing any day.
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Post by Canseco on Jun 16, 2017 23:35:35 GMT -5
Great win. It surely felt like another gut shot when McCann dialed nine, but Mookie bailed us out. Oh, and if Carson Smith can get near his pre-TJ status, the bullpen could become quite a weapon.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 16, 2017 23:47:11 GMT -5
So think about it. Loads of injuries - missing large stretches of ERod, Wright, Price. Porcello not nearly at his best. Hanley not at all dialed in, Panda a waste - 3B in general a black hole. Extended slumps for Benny, JBJ, Xander not nearly where he could or should be. Leon - well, Leon.
But - we are right there...this close. It's been an interesting first third of the season with the Sox in great shape despite some really uninspiring efforts and outcomes so far. Something to build on for sure.
Yankees just got beat late - only 1 game behind!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2017 0:11:46 GMT -5
The Yankees lose again. 1 game back. 2 back in the loss column.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 17, 2017 0:21:37 GMT -5
That's the best hitting team in the majors, and they shut them down for the most part. It may not have been to your liking but it was effective.
As far as situational hitting goes, the term doesn't mean much to me. They ran Young, JBJ did what he could to get the bat on the ball but Altuve flagged it down, and Young was trapped. He did what he could to salvage a runner in scoring position after that. Good for him.
I'll argue that "situational hitting" got them into that mess. You've got the hottest hitter on the team. Leave the guy on third and let Bradley find something he can hit instead of picking the pitch for him. That's how you maximize your odds, instead of taking the bat out of his hands. There's a lot of stale thinking that doesn't add much to the probability of scoring a run.
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Post by jackiebradleyjrjr on Jun 17, 2017 3:02:22 GMT -5
I'll argue that "situational hitting" got them into that mess. You've got the hottest hitter on the team. Leave the guy on third and let Bradley find something he can hit instead of picking the pitch for him. That's how you maximize your odds, instead of taking the bat out of his hands. There's a lot of stale thinking that doesn't add much to the probability of scoring a run. You're kinda making my point, aren't you? I didn't say it wasn't a good win. I said it was an ugly win. Which the point you made above agrees with. Furthermore, yes Barnes and Kelly shutdown a very good hitting team. And I gave them credit for that. However, you're looking at the score and going "oh that was an excellent game." I'm looking at four base runners in 1 2/3 innings and am going "good hold guys but you're playing with fire if you don't clean that up." Personally, I don't think Kelly needing 23 pitches to get two outs and giving up two base runners to do it qualifies as "excellent " relief work. But to each his own.
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Post by m1keyboots on Jun 17, 2017 6:55:22 GMT -5
Barnes is facing the best hitters in their lineup. If the save stat wasn't a actual thing, I wish Kimbrel would come on for the 8th instead. Ive always felt like the last three outs, especially on the road, and moreso especially if its not the bottom of the order are the hardest ones to get. I'm fine with Kimbrel closing games and getting the save, not necessarily Barnes pitching in high-leverage situations all the time though. Carson Smith looked so good in Seattle, I really hope he gets healthy.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 17, 2017 8:31:10 GMT -5
I'll argue that "situational hitting" got them into that mess. You've got the hottest hitter on the team. Leave the guy on third and let Bradley find something he can hit instead of picking the pitch for him. That's how you maximize your odds, instead of taking the bat out of his hands. There's a lot of stale thinking that doesn't add much to the probability of scoring a run. You're kinda making my point, aren't you? I didn't say it wasn't a good win. I said it was an ugly win. Which the point you made above agrees with. Furthermore, yes Barnes and Kelly shutdown a very good hitting team. And I gave them credit for that. However, you're looking at the score and going "oh that was an excellent game." I'm looking at four base runners in 1 2/3 innings and am going "good hold guys but you're playing with fire if you don't clean that up." Personally, I don't think Kelly needing 23 pitches to get two outs and giving up two base runners to do it qualifies as "excellent " relief work. But to each his own. Would you be saying the same thing about situational hitting if JBJ hit a soft ground ball that found it's way just past the diving Altuve? Or if he had an infield hit? Would you say it was bad situational hitting if he hit a ball with an EV of 115 where an outfielder stole a home run? That's why it's random. Over the long run, most players hit pretty close to exactly the same in clutch spots as they do all the other times. And batters fail usually 70% of the time so it's easy to get discouraged and blame the lack of clutch.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,915
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 17, 2017 10:02:30 GMT -5
The Yankees lose again. 1 game back. 2 back in the loss column. They are 8-7 in June while outscoring their opponents 110-54. The 8 wins were by 10, 7, 8, 8, 6, 13, 11, and 2 runs, while the 7 losses are by 2, 1, 1, 1 in EE, 2, 1 in EE, 1. Furthermore, they had a 75% chance of winning 5 of those 7 games. On June 4 they had a 2-0 lead with 2 outs and no one on in the 6th (79.9% Win Probability) and lost 3-2. On June 13 they had a 2-1 lead after 7 (76%) and the bases full and 1 out in the top of the 11th (72%) and lost 3-2. Relief goat: Ben Heller, who had been recalled the day before and was optioned the next day. On June 14 they put up 4 runs in the first (82.9%) and lost 7-5. Relief goat: Ronald Herrera, the guy they had just called up when they optioned Heller. And whom they optioned the next day. Two nights ago they were up 7-6 with 2 outs and no one on in the bottom of the 10th (95.7%) and lost 8-7. Relief goat: Giovanni Gallegos. Who was optioned the next day. Last night they were up 6-4 in the 7th, with 2 on and 1 out (85.2%) and lost 7-6. Relief goat: Jonathan Holder. Still on the roster but presumably contemplating a name change. This has to have been agonizing. My heart goes out to them and their fans. Maybe about a tenth of an inch!
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Jun 17, 2017 11:26:33 GMT -5
The Yankees lose again. 1 game back. 2 back in the loss column. They are 8-7 in June while outscoring their opponents 110-54. The 8 wins were by 10, 7, 8, 8, 6, 13, 11, and 2 runs, while the 7 losses are by 2, 1, 1, 1 in EE, 2, 1 in EE, 1. Furthermore, they had a 75% chance of winning 5 of those 7 games. On June 4 they had a 2-0 lead with 2 outs and no one on in the 6th (79.9% Win Probability) and lost 3-2. On June 13 they had a 2-1 lead after 7 (76%) and the bases full and 1 out in the top of the 11th (72%) and lost 3-2. Relief goat: Ben Heller, who had been recalled the day before and was optioned the next day. On June 14 they put up 4 runs in the first (82.9%) and lost 7-5. Relief goat: Ronald Herrera, the guy they had just called up when they optioned Heller. And whom they optioned the next day. Two nights ago they were up 7-6 with 2 outs and no one on in the bottom of the 10th (95.7%) and lost 8-7. Relief goat: Giovanni Gallegos. Who was optioned the next day. Last night they were up 6-4 in the 7th, with 2 on and 1 out (85.2%) and lost 7-6. Relief goat: Jonathan Holder. Still on the roster but presumably contemplating a name change. This has to have been agonizing. My heart goes out to them and their fans. Maybe about a tenth of an inch! Good to see ya postin. Obviously, Giriardi is an idiot:) They've won some bizarre games earlier. I believe a couple where they were stuck out around 17 times. Another, where they won 3-2 on 2 hits. Karma. Kinda sounds like the Sox last year. That said. Judge and Sanchez are looking pretty scary.
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Post by jackiebradleyjrjr on Jun 17, 2017 12:08:45 GMT -5
I'll argue that "situational hitting" got them into that mess. You've got the hottest hitter on the team. Leave the guy on third and let Bradley find something he can hit instead of picking the pitch for him. That's how you maximize your odds, instead of taking the bat out of his hands. There's a lot of stale thinking that doesn't add much to the probability of scoring a run. You're kinda making my point, aren't you? I didn't say it wasn't a good win. I said it was an ugly win. Which the point you made above agrees with. Furthermore, yes Barnes and Kelly shutdown a very good hitting team. And I gave them credit for that. However, you're looking at the score and going "oh that was an excellent game." I'm looking at four base runners in 1 2/3 innings and am going "good hold guys but you're playing with fire if you don't clean that up." Personally, I don't think Kelly needing 23 pitches to get two outs and giving up two base runners to do it qualifies as "excellent " relief work. But to each his own. Would you be saying the same thing about situational hitting if JBJ hit a soft ground ball that found it's way just past the diving Altuve? Or if he had an infield hit? Would you say it was bad situational hitting if he hit a ball with an EV of 115 where an outfielder stole a home run? That's why it's random. Over the long run, most players hit pretty close to exactly the same in clutch spots as they do all the other times. And batters fail usually 70% of the time so it's easy to get discouraged and blame the lack of clutch. I disagree with this somewhat with "most players hit pretty close to exactly the same in clutch spots...." I'm not talking about all clutch spots. Just this particular situation lap that jbj fought himself in last night. I define situational hitting as where a positive outcome is more than a hit or walk. Take last night, runner at third with one out. Positive outcome: hit, walk, hit by pitch, deep fly out to center/ right (sac fly), certain ground outs that drive in the runner. Anyone of those would have been fine, even if obviously a hit would have been better than a sac fly. Now try it again, but this time instead one out we have two. Positive outcomes are hit, walk, and hit by pitch only. Both are clutch spots but one is not like the other. Yes the batting average of the two examples might be the same over time, but in the first case even a non hit might be okay.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jun 17, 2017 12:09:35 GMT -5
I'll argue that "situational hitting" got them into that mess. You've got the hottest hitter on the team. Leave the guy on third and let Bradley find something he can hit instead of picking the pitch for him. That's how you maximize your odds, instead of taking the bat out of his hands. There's a lot of stale thinking that doesn't add much to the probability of scoring a run. You're kinda making my point, aren't you? I didn't say it wasn't a good win. I said it was an ugly win. Which the point you made above agrees with. Furthermore, yes Barnes and Kelly shutdown a very good hitting team. And I gave them credit for that. However, you're looking at the score and going "oh that was an excellent game." I'm looking at four base runners in 1 2/3 innings and am going "good hold guys but you're playing with fire if you don't clean that up." Personally, I don't think Kelly needing 23 pitches to get two outs and giving up two base runners to do it qualifies as "excellent " relief work. But to each his own. You went out of your way to blame Bradley and Young. My point is simple: they were very likely doing what the signals they were taking told them to do. That's a big difference and, no, it doesn't validate your contention at all.
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Post by jackiebradleyjrjr on Jun 17, 2017 12:24:42 GMT -5
You're kinda making my point, aren't you? I didn't say it wasn't a good win. I said it was an ugly win. Which the point you made above agrees with. Furthermore, yes Barnes and Kelly shutdown a very good hitting team. And I gave them credit for that. However, you're looking at the score and going "oh that was an excellent game." I'm looking at four base runners in 1 2/3 innings and am going "good hold guys but you're playing with fire if you don't clean that up." Personally, I don't think Kelly needing 23 pitches to get two outs and giving up two base runners to do it qualifies as "excellent " relief work. But to each his own. You went out of your way to blame Bradley and Young. My point is simple: they were very likely doing what the signals they were taking told them to do. That's a big difference and, no, it doesn't validate your contention at all. Lol- All I said was it was an ugly game to watch. You seem to think it was an excellent game. That's fine. Personally, if what you're saying is right and they got that signal/ misplay that situation, I'd call that ugly. I call four base runners in 1 2/3 inning ugly. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Although it's somewhat worth noting Barnes called his outing ugly during post game interviews.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jun 17, 2017 12:38:06 GMT -5
Never feel bad for the Yankees or their fans.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 17, 2017 12:51:36 GMT -5
I never liked Roger Donut, even before the drug allegations, but he was very good as the color man on the radio broadcast. Interesting comment near the end, you can hear the spin on high spin rate pitches from the dugout. I loved Roger....till he went to the Yucks. Then, he was dead to me.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 17, 2017 12:52:35 GMT -5
I mean if Pomeranz could just be consistent, it would really valuable. Credit to him for his start last night.
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Post by mredsox89 on Jun 17, 2017 14:19:40 GMT -5
The Yankees have had such a bizarre season if you just look at the numbers. They have the best record in the AL (23-7) in games decided by more than 3 runs, the best record in the AL (29-9) when scoring first, but 7-11 in one-run games, and 15-20 in games within 3 runs.
In June, the Yankees are just 8-7 despite the most HR in the AL (32) and best ERA (3.31). Sox at least seeming to take advantage of this over the last few weeks
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 17, 2017 15:09:24 GMT -5
The Yankees have had such a bizarre season if you just look at the numbers. They have the best record in the AL (23-7) in games decided by more than 3 runs, the best record in the AL (29-9) when scoring first, but 7-11 in one-run games, and 15-20 in games within 3 runs. In June, the Yankees are just 8-7 despite the most HR in the AL (32) and best ERA (3.31). Sox at least seeming to take advantage of this over the last few weeks And then you start looking at their players. Aaron Judge has a .430 BABIP and a 41.8% HR/FB. Brett Gardner is on pace to hit more than twice as many HR as his career high. Aaron Hicks is having a typical Big Papi-like season. Starlin Castro is hitting like Cano. Matt Holliday is hitting like he's 30. How can all of that be going that right at the same time?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jun 17, 2017 15:28:49 GMT -5
And then you start looking at their players. Aaron Judge has a .430 BABIP and a 41.8% HR/FB. Brett Gardner is on pace to hit more than twice as many HR as his career high. Aaron Hicks is having a typical Big Papi-like season. Starlin Castro is hitting like Cano. Matt Holliday is hitting like he's 30. How can all of that be going that right at the same time?Do you have any ideas? Cause I do.
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