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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jan 15, 2013 16:09:35 GMT -5
We are starting to get some excerpts from Francona's book which is expected to come out on January 22. We will finally get Tito's side of how things went down in 2011 and prior. It does not appear to be a flattering picture of the Red Sox ownership group. In some respects, it may also provide some redemption for Tito, Theo and others in baseball ops with ownership focused more on entertainment value vs. production of players. i would expect that RS ownership is already crafting their spin control in response to what will be harsh criticisim of ownership, particularly right before tickets are put up for sale to the general public on January 26. fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/01/15/terry-francona-on-red-sox-ownership-in-book-i-dont-think-love-baseball/
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 15, 2013 16:26:05 GMT -5
We are starting to get some excerpts from Francona's book which is expected to come out on January 22. We will finally get Tito's side of how things went down in 2011 and prior. It does not appear to be a flattering picture of the Red Sox ownership group. In some respects, it may also provide some redemption for Tito, Theo and others in baseball ops with ownership focused more on entertainment value vs. production of players. i would expect that RS ownership is already crafting their spin control in response to what will be harsh criticisim of ownership, particularly right before tickets are put up for sale to the general public on January 26. fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/01/15/terry-francona-on-red-sox-ownership-in-book-i-dont-think-love-baseball/look who is co-writing the book before we think this is all Tito's words Second he blames the ownership for owning the sox (like a hobby to make money) Last time I looked there are only 2 owners I can think of who own a team because they LOVE the game, Most people own a business to make Money, and when they don't make money they sell the team.. third. This book will be nothing but everyone pointing fingers at each other and blaming everyone else BUT themselves
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Post by burythehammer on Jan 15, 2013 16:52:49 GMT -5
I'm sure Terry Francona fought hard against the Crawford/Lackey/Gonzalez moves. Right.
He does make a good point about ownership's lack of passion though. Just imagine if they really had baseball "in their blood", hell we may have won a couple World Series and made the playoffs 8 out of 10 years. Oh well.
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Post by burythehammer on Jan 15, 2013 16:54:38 GMT -5
How many percs did Tito down before he dictated this to Shank?
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Post by jmei on Jan 15, 2013 17:02:07 GMT -5
Let's keep it clean.
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 15, 2013 17:05:46 GMT -5
I'm sure Terry Francona fought hard against the Crawford/Lackey/Gonzalez moves. Right. He does make a good point about ownership's lack of passion though. Just imagine if they really had baseball "in their blood", hell we may have won a couple World Series and made the playoffs 8 out of 10 years. Oh well. I was about to write a response to this and then realized it was sarcasm
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Post by elguapo on Jan 15, 2013 17:11:38 GMT -5
So does anyone actually disagree with the excerpt? The bits I read did not seem controversial: owners wanted marketable stars and aren't real baseball guys. Didn't we already know that?
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jan 15, 2013 17:21:02 GMT -5
In some respects this book is likely to open some old wounds, with perhaps a different perspective from Tito (and Shank). It may be entertaining, but it is likely not going to portray the Red Sox in a good light. Not exactly what they need after the debacle of the 2012 season and right before they release tickets for sale to the general public.
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Post by Gwell55 on Jan 15, 2013 17:23:47 GMT -5
We are starting to get some excerpts from Francona's book which is expected to come out on January 22. We will finally get Tito's side of how things went down in 2011 and prior. It does not appear to be a flattering picture of the Red Sox ownership group. In some respects, it may also provide some redemption for Tito, Theo and others in baseball ops with ownership focused more on entertainment value vs. production of players. i would expect that RS ownership is already crafting their spin control in response to what will be harsh criticisim of ownership, particularly right before tickets are put up for sale to the general public on January 26. fullcount.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/2013/01/15/terry-francona-on-red-sox-ownership-in-book-i-dont-think-love-baseball/look who is co-writing the book before we think this is all Tito's words Second he blames the ownership for owning the sox (like a hobby to make money) Last time I looked there are only 2 owners I can think of who own a team because they LOVE the game, Most people own a business to make Money, and when they don't make money they sell the team.. third. This book will be nothing but everyone pointing fingers at each other and blaming everyone else BUT themselves THIS!!!
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 15, 2013 18:22:20 GMT -5
So does anyone actually disagree with the excerpt? The bits I read did not seem controversial: owners wanted marketable stars and aren't real baseball guys. Didn't we already know that? That was exactly by reaction.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 15, 2013 18:26:42 GMT -5
Who co-wrote it? The guy from the Newspaper that killed Tito on his way out of town with "sources" from the club? Who has any idea who the "sources" were? At least Tito is gonna put his name to it.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 15, 2013 19:13:36 GMT -5
So does anyone actually disagree with the excerpt? The bits I read did not seem controversial: owners wanted marketable stars and aren't real baseball guys. Didn't we already know that? Perhaps ownership got a pre-sale copy. That would explain the moves this off-season as a way to counteract that perception.
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Post by elguapo on Jan 15, 2013 19:24:26 GMT -5
So does anyone actually disagree with the excerpt? The bits I read did not seem controversial: owners wanted marketable stars and aren't real baseball guys. Didn't we already know that? Perhaps ownership got a pre-sale copy. That would explain the moves this off-season as a way to counteract that perception. C'mon. The owners haven't changed and the above is still true. But they also want to field a winning team and not pay lux tax.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 15, 2013 19:32:38 GMT -5
Guapo, we've got to get you regrooved for a sarcasm gene.
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 15, 2013 19:43:18 GMT -5
Guapo, we've got to get you regrooved for a sarcasm gene. Better idea: invent a sarcasm font and then PROFIT
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 15, 2013 19:50:55 GMT -5
So does anyone actually disagree with the excerpt? The bits I read did not seem controversial: owners wanted marketable stars and aren't real baseball guys. Didn't we already know that? If only this team had avoided superstar talent, they would be so much better off. Real Baseball People recognize that the key to winning games is having as many crappy, unmarketable players as possible. Shaughnessy is and has always been a troll. I hope Francona got good money to put his name on this turd.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 15, 2013 19:58:20 GMT -5
I really do not think it is a problem that the ownership does not "have baseball in its blood." Connie Mack was a baseball guy and he continually sold off his star players. Charlie Comiskey was a baseball insider and he cheated his players out of bonuses. I want business people owning the team, since they will make decisions with their heads and have the capital to fund a competitive product.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 15, 2013 21:35:12 GMT -5
Obviously when the book comes out, I'll be better able to read the quotes with the proper context, but it seems to me in conjunction with Theo's quote and what Theo has said and hinted about in the past - what Tito and Theo are complaining about is that the Sox higher-ups want baseball decisions to be influenced by marketing rather than by doing what's best to win in the overall long-term.
I took the comment about Werner's complaints about the Sox being a boring team when they were still winning 95 games as a sign that he'd prefer star power for NESN ratings and that was more important than the boring team winning 95 games.
Again, I don't think that Tito is railing against "star" players as much as he is railing against the concept of marketing being more important in the decision making that doing what's best long-term and what's not necessarily sexy for ratings.
I'm no fan of CHB, but I have had no problem with the way Tito has handled himself over his 8 year tenure as Red Sox manager. Even when he got fired, I felt that the Sox got rid of the wrong person - they should have broken up the dysfunctional entitled team and kept the manager. Instead we were treated to the name star circus known as Bobby Valentine and the worst year in nearly 50 years.
Meanwhile, Tito was smeared as he left, which was uncalled for. Management came off pretty small in that episode, so I don't have a problem with Tito calling it as he sees it.
I guess I'll know more when I read the book. And I will read it, because I do want an inside account from the best manager in my opinion that the Sox have ever had during the most successful period of time the Sox have had in 90 years.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2013 22:08:01 GMT -5
The owners of the Red Sox and Larry Lucchino had the right to choose who they wanted for manager. But how they did it was wrong. Fire the man and let it be. But for Terry Francona defended himself against allegations that came out at the end of his firing regarding his use of prescription pain medications was wrong. Then Francona was questioned about the pain medication when he interviewed for the Cardinals managerial job. That was low class of the Red Sox. Shaughnessy the turd works for the Boston Globe just like Bob Hohler who Larry Lucchino planted the story with. At least Francona is putting his name behind what he is saying unlike the owners of the Red Sox and Larry Lucchino.
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 15, 2013 23:03:29 GMT -5
The owners of the Red Sox and Larry Lucchino had the right to choose who they wanted for manager. But how they did it was wrong. Fire the man and let it be. But for Terry Francona defended himself against allegations that came out at the end of his firing regarding his use of prescription pain medications was wrong. Then Francona was questioned about the pain medication when he interviewed for the Cardinals managerial job. That was low class of the Red Sox. Shaughnessy the turd works for the Boston Globe just like Bob Hohler who Larry Lucchino planted the story with. At least Francona is putting his name behind what he is saying unlike the owners of the Red Sox and Larry Lucchino. we don't even know if its the owners who leaked it....
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 15, 2013 23:12:45 GMT -5
we don't even know if its the owners who leaked it.... I'm sure the security guys, the club house guys all had a grasp of what was going on with Tito in his personal life.
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Post by grandsalami on Jan 15, 2013 23:13:59 GMT -5
we don't even know if its the owners who leaked it.... I'm sure the security guys, the club house guys all had a grasp of what was going on with Tito in his personal life. players who had a vendetta out for him, etc.... not saying it was NOT the owners, but there CAN be other sources where they got it from
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2013 0:33:25 GMT -5
Your source are the same people telling you about the sell out streak.
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Post by remember04 on Jan 16, 2013 1:19:39 GMT -5
Guapo, we've got to get you regrooved for a sarcasm gene. Better idea: invent a sarcasm font and then PROFIT I thought that's what italics were? Also I've been known to [sarcasm][/sarcasm] before. It gets the point across.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 16, 2013 1:45:43 GMT -5
Better idea: invent a sarcasm font and then PROFIT I thought that's what italics were? Also I've been known to [sarcasm][/sarcasm] before. It gets the point across. Also different colored fonts and the use of emoticons,
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