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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 16, 2019 8:59:12 GMT -5
They'll probably start Chatham in AAA next year, switching him around defensively. I think Chris Owings gets the first crack at a platoon job in the bench in the MLB bench. I have no idea what they do with Chavis. He seems destined to be trade bait. He shouldn't be a platoon 2nd and 1B. That would be a waste of a asset. I think Chris Owings has a long track record of being awful in the majors. I know he had a hot month at Pawtucket, but if people didn't like Nunez, despite Owings' superior defense, they're not going to like him. The Sox do have Chavis and Hernandez who can play 2b and eventually Dalbec will be in the mix for 1b and yes, I'd anticipate Chatham will eventually get the role Nunez had and do fine with it. However, between Dalbec, Chavis, and Chatham you have to wonder how they sort that out. I suspect at least one if not two of those players will be gone this offseason in a deal, but we'll see. Unfortunately, this squeezes out Brock Holt, potentially. I admit to having a soft spot for him. The guy, when he's healthy, handles just about every position at least adequately, hits for a decent to good average, and draws walks so he has on-base skills. Plus he's a very easy guy to root for. My guess is with Hernandez around Holt won't be as he's a free agent, and that's too bad. I like Marco Hernandez, but he doesn't walk much, so unless he hits .300 I don't think his OBP will be that great, but we'll see. I think he's better as a utility player, but they might need him at 2b next year to start if they're looking to save money. Between Dalbec, Chavis, and Hernandez, those would be their low cost options. And Chatham in a backup role as well.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 16, 2019 9:39:29 GMT -5
I saw enough of Owings in one game with the Red Sox. He cannot catch up to major league fastballs. There's no fixing that.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 16, 2019 10:16:02 GMT -5
Chatham is certainly behind a group of valuable players including the Brockstar, Marco and Lin, as well as the surprisingly versatile rookie 2B/1B/3B Chavis.
This muddies the waters for the king of versatility Holt also. The most happy veteran will be 32 in 2020, earned $3,575M this year, wants to finish his career in Boston, is a primo clubhouse guy, a fan favorite, a force in Boston charities, and could become a Sox lifer as a coach. In addition he is a valuable asset on the field, at bat and on the bases and has postseason experience as part of three Division Titles and a World Series win. That’s a valuable guy. IMO, considering all the above he merits consideration as part of the core instead of a fill-in piece. Keeping him around at ~$4M would be the smart move; especially as the 2020 26-man roster will allow a 4-man bench while maintaining an 8-man Pen.
Marco may be a less versatile, less expensive version of the Brockstar, but at 27 he is no kid and 2020 is his first arb year, so he will start to get paid. His hit tool and speed are needed on this team. I would keep both lefty bats to back up Chavis at 2B, Dalbec at 1B, Beni and Betts in the OF, as well as pinch hitting and pinch running assets. That leaves room on the bench for a catcher and a righty bat, or even Ockimey in a platoon with the more versatile Dalbec. Cost for all this is minimal.
That leaves Chatham and Lin in AAA to start the season as injury backups. Neither Devers nor Chavis had the luxury of finishing baking in the minors. With more time to develop his power and versatility in AAA, CJ might force his way to Fenway by mid-2020.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 16, 2019 11:14:00 GMT -5
I saw enough of Owings in one game with the Red Sox. He cannot catch up to major league fastballs. There's no fixing that. Yeah, because that's definitely the right way to go about analyzing these things. Not even saying I believe in Owings, just that watching one game and saying "yeah, he's definitely done" is a terrible approach.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 16, 2019 11:20:31 GMT -5
I saw enough of Owings in one game with the Red Sox. He cannot catch up to major league fastballs. There's no fixing that. Yeah, because that's definitely the right way to go about analyzing these things. Not even saying I believe in Owings, just that watching one game and saying "yeah, he's definitely done" is a terrible approach. As opposed to thinking he had a breakout in AAA based on a 2 week hot streak at age 28 after a 10 year minor league career? Is that a better approach? He has quite a long track record. I'm sticking with my approach and would gladly admit I'm wrong if I am. But to put any stock in him whatsoever moving forward is a total mistake. He's depth, if that and that's it.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 16, 2019 11:25:58 GMT -5
Yeah, because that's definitely the right way to go about analyzing these things. Not even saying I believe in Owings, just that watching one game and saying "yeah, he's definitely done" is a terrible approach. As opposed to thinking he had a breakout in AAA based on a 2 week hot streak at age 28 after a 10 year minor league career? Is that a better approach? He has quite a long track record. I'm sticking with my approach and would gladly admit I'm wrong if I am. But to put any stock in him whatsoever moving forward is a total mistake. He's depth, if that and that's it. There can be more than one bad way to approach something, you know. I'm not saying he's going to be a quality major league starter at any point. Just saying drawing conclusions from four at bats doesn't make any sense. And saying he had a 10 year minor league career isn't true either. He wasn't a burner by any means but he did have four years of positive WAR in the MLB (albeit one of them in 20 games). If he was the 25th man on the roster nobody would be jumping for joy but he's certainly a better option that Deiner Lopez. I'm never going to complain about the Red Sox making an upgrade so even if the Owings signing means upgrading their 5th utility man option, I'll take it. It didn't cost anything.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 16, 2019 11:29:42 GMT -5
As opposed to thinking he had a breakout in AAA based on a 2 week hot streak at age 28 after a 10 year minor league career? Is that a better approach? He has quite a long track record. I'm sticking with my approach and would gladly admit I'm wrong if I am. But to put any stock in him whatsoever moving forward is a total mistake. He's depth, if that and that's it. There can be more than one bad way to approach something, you know. I'm not saying he's going to be a quality major league starter at any point. Just saying drawing conclusions from four at bats doesn't make any sense. And saying he had a 10 year minor league career isn't true either. He wasn't a burner by any means but he did have four years of positive WAR in the MLB (albeit one of them in 20 games). If he was the 25th man on the roster nobody would be jumping for joy but he's certainly a better option that Deiner Lopez. I'm never going to complain about the Red Sox making an upgrade so even if the Owings signing means upgrading their 5th utility man option, I'll take it. It didn't cost anything. I made my comment after some thought he's the first platoon option as the Red Sox 2B next year. I'm fine with him as their 5th utility man option. Agree, he's depth and that's it.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Aug 16, 2019 12:10:20 GMT -5
Owings was released from the Royals who are probably one of 5 worst teams in MLB. Hernandez and Lin are much more talented and versitile than Owings.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 16, 2019 12:24:42 GMT -5
Chad De La Guerra is probably equal to Owings. The only advantage Owings has over any of them is that he's the only RH hitter of all of them. If he were LH, he wouldn't even be in the org IMO.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 16, 2019 12:52:26 GMT -5
Owings was released from the Royals who are probably one of 5 worst teams in MLB. Hernandez and Lin are much more talented and versitile than Owings. JD Martinez was released by an Astros team that won 70 games. Again, I'm not saying Owings is great by any means, but this is not good logic.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 16, 2019 16:05:48 GMT -5
Owings was released from the Royals who are probably one of 5 worst teams in MLB. Hernandez and Lin are much more talented and versitile than Owings. JD Martinez was released by an Astros team that won 70 games. Again, I'm not saying Owings is great by any means, but this is not good logic. JD Martinez aside, "if you got released by the Royals, you probably shouldn't be in the majors" does not strike me as a wildly illogical statement.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 16, 2019 16:32:59 GMT -5
They could platoon Hernandez and Travis next year, shifting Chavis between 1B and 2B. (Idea from Ian on the podcast we've recorded part of and need to finish tomorrow morning.)
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Post by soxfan511 on Aug 16, 2019 16:37:59 GMT -5
They could platoon Hernandez and Travis next year, shifting Chavis between 1B and 2B. (Idea from Ian on the podcast we've recorded part of and need to finish tomorrow morning.) Where does Dalbec fit in then? Look forward to your podcast
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 16, 2019 16:52:18 GMT -5
They could platoon Hernandez and Travis next year, shifting Chavis between 1B and 2B. (Idea from Ian on the podcast we've recorded part of and need to finish tomorrow morning.) Where does Dalbec fit in then? Look forward to your podcast I'd guess he's the most likely to be traded. Dealer Dan knows how to clear logjams. Honestly I'd prefer Chavis at 2b and Dalbec at 1b next season with Hernandez in reserve. And Holt still on the team, although that's really unrealistic. The Sox will probably be looking for a Porcello replacement and bullpen help. Dalbec is likely to be a guy involved in any wheeling and dealing. I've always been dismissive of Sam Travis' future with the Sox but maybe I shouldn't be? Maybe Hernandez and Travis platooning with Chavis shuttling back and forth might very well be the direction they go. I'm still not convinced that Sam Travis is a useful player nor am I convinced that Hernandez is more than a useful utility guy, but we'll see. They need to cut payroll somewhere. I've always been a believer of Dalbec but I can't shake the feeling he'll be manning 3b and mashing HRs for some other team next year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 16, 2019 16:55:30 GMT -5
They could platoon Hernandez and Travis next year, shifting Chavis between 1B and 2B. (Idea from Ian on the podcast we've recorded part of and need to finish tomorrow morning.) That leaves little versatility on the Sox bench though. Marco is really a second baseman only type. Sam Travis is a first baseman/emergency outfielder. Chavis is a 2nd/1B only now.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 16, 2019 17:23:49 GMT -5
They could platoon Hernandez and Travis next year, shifting Chavis between 1B and 2B. (Idea from Ian on the podcast we've recorded part of and need to finish tomorrow morning.) That leaves little versatility on the Sox bench though. Marco is really a second baseman only type. Sam Travis is a first baseman/emergency outfielder. Chavis is a 2nd/1B only now. Like many others, I see Dalbec as the Red Sox 1B going forward, starting 2020. He has steadily improved both his OBP and in game awesome power as well as defense. Yes he still has issues, but with the Sox excellent offense he can bat low in the order as he continues to figure things out, as happened with Chavis and Devers. He is already applying hot corner moves to learning 1B. With his height, reach, cannon arm plus his bat, he is as likely as not to wind up in GG and/orSS level discussions for first baseman. The Sox need a versatile, low cost 1B for payroll purposes and Dalbec has the highest ceiling. Like Chavis, he could also back Devers at 3B when needed. I am very, very nervous that DDo will trade him for a RP and then go out and spend heavily for a 1B who, with Dalbec, Travis and Ockimey we don’t really need.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 16, 2019 18:53:27 GMT -5
I could see them working Dalbec's service time to start the year before he comes up to play 1B.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 16, 2019 21:59:53 GMT -5
They could platoon Hernandez and Travis next year, shifting Chavis between 1B and 2B. (Idea from Ian on the podcast we've recorded part of and need to finish tomorrow morning.) That leaves little versatility on the Sox bench though. Marco is really a second baseman only type. Sam Travis is a first baseman/emergency outfielder. Chavis is a 2nd/1B only now. I believe Hernandez has some 3b experience in the majors and has played SS in the minors earlier. He probably has the speed to play in the OF if need be. But yes, 2b is definitely his best position.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 16, 2019 22:13:56 GMT -5
That leaves little versatility on the Sox bench though. Marco is really a second baseman only type. Sam Travis is a first baseman/emergency outfielder. Chavis is a 2nd/1B only now. I believe Hernandez has some 3b experience in the majors and has played SS in the minors earlier. He probably has the speed to play in the OF if need be. But yes, 2b is definitely his best position. He can't play 3B or SS all that well. There's a reason why the Sox have correctfully stuck him at second base only all year. He's a butcher anywhere else.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 16, 2019 23:52:24 GMT -5
I believe Hernandez has some 3b experience in the majors and has played SS in the minors earlier. He probably has the speed to play in the OF if need be. But yes, 2b is definitely his best position. He can't play 3B or SS all that well. There's a reason why the Sox have correctfully stuck him at second base only all year. He's a butcher anywhere else. Really? A butcher? That’s pretty harsh. He had experience at SS and 3B before he was hurt, so they saw him as a potential Utility infielder. For good reason. He is a smart, fast, athletic baseball player who, like Holt and Lin could probably play several positions well given the reps. He spent two years getting back from surgeries and it’s likely he primarily played 2B in rehab as the best way to get back into game shape and back to Boston. I sure wouldn’t put limits on him now that he is finally healthy and playing well.
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Post by manfred on Aug 16, 2019 23:58:18 GMT -5
I am content rolling out Devers, Xman, Chavis, and a mystery 1B for the next however many years. Chatham is depth or, if he has value, trade bait. I am not at all sold on Travis. I reserve judgment on Dalbec, but don’t think he is the immediate RH or fulltime 1B.
With JD potentially opting out, they might need to invest in a reliable 1B. And maybe trade Chatham+ for pitching.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 17, 2019 6:12:00 GMT -5
He can't play 3B or SS all that well. There's a reason why the Sox have correctfully stuck him at second base only all year. He's a butcher anywhere else. Really? A butcher? That’s pretty harsh. He had experience at SS and 3B before he was hurt, so they saw him as a potential Utility infielder. For good reason. He is a smart, fast, athletic baseball player who, like Holt and Lin could probably play several positions well given the reps. He spent two years getting back from surgeries and it’s likely he primarily played 2B in rehab as the best way to get back into game shape and back to Boston. I sure wouldn’t put limits on him now that he is finally healthy and playing well. He can play 3B as well as probably Sam Travis can play 3B (really badly). Marco last played 3B in 2017. He made 5 errors out of 16 plays (attempts) in the majors. Think about how bad that is. Marco is not known for defense at all really. He's made even 5 errors in 90 attempts at even 2B. It's passable, but not great. He has had 4 errors in less than half the attempts the attempts at SS in the minors this year. So basically, Marco is a short stop when you need to give Xander a day off every couple of weeks. Anything beyond that, he's a liability for any stretch of period at SS. He can't play 3B at all in the little time he spent there. He's a poor defender at SS. He's passable at 2B. He's in there because he can hit and run.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 17, 2019 6:14:53 GMT -5
Marco also has about twice the range of Chavis. He's way more playable at SS than Nunez ever was even when he was younger. Looking at errors to judge defense is like looking at pitching wins.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 17, 2019 6:20:54 GMT -5
Marco also has about twice the range of Chavis. He's way more playable at SS than Nunez ever was even when he was younger. Looking at errors to judge defense is like looking at pitching wins. Looking at mistakes made is not useless. A collective team stat (pitching wins) is useless. It's going to be the reason why Devers won't have a positive DRS until he fixes the errors, for example. Chavis isn't a short stop. Usless comparison. Compare Marco to other short stops if you want to see him moved around there. Nunez is a terrible bar for a example too. Add- Marco is probably a better 2B than Chavis, but that doesn't say much either. I already stated he's a 2B only and a good enough one there defensively. If you're going to put him somewhere else, that's where you're going to pay a penalty for Marco's defense.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 17, 2019 6:32:49 GMT -5
Marco is a better shortstop than Holt but not as good as Lin who is a better shortstop than Xander.
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