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Andrew Benintendi--future all-star?
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Post by huskies15 on Feb 8, 2018 16:45:43 GMT -5
What do we expect from our beloved Andrew Benintendi this year? I think there are some areas where we could see marked improvement.
His defense, for me, is the area that I think could be better with experience. He's athletic and seems to work hard, which makes me believe he will be better in LF than last year.
Offensively, I think he has the bat-to-ball skills and approach to potentially achieve a .300/.375/.450 line.
Has anyone's outlook on him changed after last season? Do we still see all-star potential?
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 8, 2018 17:06:03 GMT -5
Do you really think that an OPS of 825 is all that AB has to offer? My expectations are higher than that. His first season was very good but not great, IMO he will be much better this year and an OPS of 825 is not too much to expect.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 8, 2018 17:20:04 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if he contended for a batting title or two down the road. Benintendi will improve. He'll have a season where he hits .320 with 25 homers, 45 doubles, and a slash line around .320/.400/.500.
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Post by manfred on Feb 8, 2018 18:42:57 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if he contended for a batting title or two down the road. Benintendi will improve. He'll have a season where he hits .320 with 25 homers, 45 doubles, and a slash line around .320/.400/.500. I am happy if Benny is prime Mike Greenwell, a bit more power, and far better glove. Which, I guess, is close to what you are suggesting: Greenwell 1987-1988. But I'd go further and say I'd be happy with less-power Greenwell -- 1989, say. One of the things I love about these boards is looking back at older players and seasons -- I'd forgotten how awesome Greenwell was in 1988 -- dude walked 87 times while only striking out 38. Will that ever happen again?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 8, 2018 19:30:17 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised if he contended for a batting title or two down the road. Benintendi will improve. He'll have a season where he hits .320 with 25 homers, 45 doubles, and a slash line around .320/.400/.500. I am happy if Benny is prime Mike Greenwell, a bit more power, and far better glove. Which, I guess, is close to what you are suggesting: Greenwell 1987-1988. But I'd go further and say I'd be happy with less-power Greenwell -- 1989, say. One of the things I love about these boards is looking back at older players and seasons -- I'd forgotten how awesome Greenwell was in 1988 -- dude walked 87 times while only striking out 38. Will that ever happen again? I was thinking/hoping Fred Lynn circa 1975, but I think your young Greenwell comparison is apt. It's easy to forget just how good Greenwell was in 1987 and 1988. He was a very worthy heir of Williams/Yaz/Rice at that time. He was a guy who could hit .320 with 20 homers. He actually was the steroid-free MVP of 1988 (unlike the guy who won the MVP award - Canseco). He hurt his back in 1989 and he was never quite the same hitter. Afterwards he was a .290 - .300 hitter with 10 - 15 homerun power who could drive people nuts by swinging at the first pitch, and yes, his defense never was good - he smashed into Ellis Burks at one point I believe injuring Burks. Greenwell reminded a little bit of Don Mattingly in his prime and Don Mattingly once his back started hurting (Mattingly lost his power too and was the same type of hitter as Greenwell). I think Benintendi can be the 1987-88 type of hitter with better defense and more speed, and possibly he could develop power - the top projection would be Fred Lynn's 1979 season when he hit .333 to win the batting title and slammed 39 homers.
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giltg
Veteran
When the eagle is silent , the parrots begin to jabber.
Posts: 274
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Post by giltg on Feb 8, 2018 19:49:30 GMT -5
I think Benintendi will be a multiple-time All-Star and finishing the top four for MVP throughout his career . The comps I'd like to put on Benintendi would be Wade Boggs Tony Gwynn and George Brett great great hitters would always hit for average but you never knew what they would hit for power.One year could be 30 the next year could be 10 but the average and on-base percentage were always there.And the one thing Benny has that those players don't is speed. I really believe been intending will be fun to watch over the next five or six years and possibly beyond.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 8, 2018 22:26:43 GMT -5
Last year AB had some struggles for extended stretches and still went 20-20 with very good K and BB rates. I think he’s likely to settle in the .300/.380-.400/.450-.550 range with improved consistency and better hitting off LH, with maybe 15-25 SB (especially with a fully healed LCL and a year of health there and better reads). I would not be remotely surprised if he had some peak years that look like vintage Mattingly (.330-.350-30-120 or so) with more Ks (the game has changed), but more walks. Swing-wise and size-wise, Mattingly is the closest como I can think of. I wouldn’t say I *expect* it, because that’s MVP territory, but I certainly think he’s capable of developing to that point. The hit tool is outstanding and he’s still quite young. I’ve said it before elsewhere, but I’m a firm believer in hit tool above all else...elite hitters (especially those willing to take walks and wait for their pitch) will often run into their share of HR in a “good” year.
To me, given that he’s so young and relatively inexperienced (2 yr of college vs 3), I think his floor is probably what we saw last year...i.e, 10th percentile outcome is he never improves. I’d say roughly what I put above (.280-.300/.360-.380/.475-.525) is 50%, and Votto with a little less power and slightly lower K/BB rates would be a 90-95th percentile outcome.
I’ll predict a healthy 2018 as .313/.401/.512 with 26 HR and 22 SB. I think he’ll run a single-digit positive DRS in LF and be a slight positive on the basepaths. I think his platoon splits vs LH will be roughly 100 points higher, too. I think that’s the first, most overt change we’ll see.
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Post by jmei on Feb 8, 2018 22:48:18 GMT -5
There are four players who have averaged a .400+ OBP over the last three years-- Votto, Trout, Goldschmidt and Harper. Predicting a 23-year-old player to be an MVP candidate in his second MLB season is bullish, to put it lightly.
Steamer projects .287/.362/.471. That's more in line with what I would expect.
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Post by manfred on Feb 8, 2018 23:19:47 GMT -5
I think Benintendi will be a multiple-time All-Star and finishing the top four for MVP throughout his career . The comps I'd like to put on Benintendi would be Wade Boggs Tony Gwynn and George Brett great great hitters would always hit for average but you never knew what they would hit for power.One year could be 30 the next year could be 10 but the average and on-base percentage were always there.And the one thing Benny has that those players don't is speed. I really believe been intending will be fun to watch over the next five or six years and possibly beyond. Holy cow. That seems strong. Three of the best hitters of my lifetime. And... Gwynn stole 50+ bases one year, 40 another... I doubt Benny will do that.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 8, 2018 23:26:47 GMT -5
I think Benintendi will be a multiple-time All-Star and finishing the top four for MVP throughout his career . The comps I'd like to put on Benintendi would be Wade Boggs Tony Gwynn and George Brett great great hitters would always hit for average but you never knew what they would hit for power.One year could be 30 the next year could be 10 but the average and on-base percentage were always there.And the one thing Benny has that those players don't is speed. I really believe been intending will be fun to watch over the next five or six years and possibly beyond. I think Benintendi will be a really excellent player and he'll put up some vintage Don Mattingly/Fred Lynn/Mike Greenwell in his prime type of seasons, but the three guys you mentioned are all HOFers and each made a run at batting .400. I doubt Benintendi will made a run at .400 or winning multiple batting titles like Brett, Boggs, and Gwynn did. Boggs was a .328 lifetime hitter, Gwynn .338 and Brett averaged over .300. I don't see Benintendi being THAT good, although I can see him being a multiple-time all-star. Don't know about the top 4 of MVP throughout his career part. Could be once or twice at his peak I suppose.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 8, 2018 23:34:12 GMT -5
All-star?
Maybe? But the competition of outfielders in AL is so great.
Stanton, Mookie, Trout, JBJ, Judge, Buxton, Upton, Kiermeir, and countless others who I can't probably think of.
He'll still be a great player regardless of the all-star game moniker either way.
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 9, 2018 3:45:48 GMT -5
There are four players who have averaged a .400+ OBP over the last three years-- Votto, Trout, Goldschmidt and Harper. Predicting a 23-year-old player to be an MVP candidate in his second MLB season is bullish, to put it lightly. Steamer projects .287/.362/.471. That's more in line with what I would expect. An OPS of 833 would not be disappointing but I think that is a bit shy of what he is capable of. He is an interesting player in that he could be that or a lot more. It is hard to tell but he has it in him to have some 950 OPS years, IMO.
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giltg
Veteran
When the eagle is silent , the parrots begin to jabber.
Posts: 274
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Post by giltg on Feb 9, 2018 10:00:02 GMT -5
There are four players who have averaged a .400+ OBP over the last three years-- Votto, Trout, Goldschmidt and Harper. Predicting a 23-year-old player to be an MVP candidate in his second MLB season is bullish, to put it lightly. Steamer projects .287/.362/.471. That's more in line with what I would expect. Aaron Judge 2nd in MVP 2017 age 25 Mookie Betts 2nd in MVP 2016 2nd season age 23 Kris Bryant MVP 2016 2nd season age 24 Corey Seager 3rd in MVP 2nd season age 22 I don't think it's bullish to believe Benintendi can't compete and that it actually seems a possibility.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 9, 2018 10:10:21 GMT -5
I love Benintendi, but don't think he's in the same class as Mookie and Devers.
I want to see more consistency from Benintendi this year and especially a vast improvement in baserunning.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 9, 2018 10:50:40 GMT -5
There are four players who have averaged a .400+ OBP over the last three years-- Votto, Trout, Goldschmidt and Harper. Predicting a 23-year-old player to be an MVP candidate in his second MLB season is bullish, to put it lightly. Steamer projects .287/.362/.471. That's more in line with what I would expect. Aaron Judge 2nd in MVP 2017 age 25 Mookie Betts 2nd in MVP 2016 2nd season age 23 Kris Bryant MVP 2016 2nd season age 24 Corey Seager 3rd in MVP 2nd season age 22 I don't think it's bullish to believe Benintendi can't compete and that it actually seems a possibility. Comparing Benintendi to Betts, Bryant, Judge, and Seager is, almost by definition, bullish. Not impossible, no. But if you think Benintendi has talent like those four then you are bullish on him as a player. Bullish doesn't mean crazy-unreasonable or impossible. And I say this as someone who think Benintendi is "only" say a .300/.380/.480 4.5 WAR-type player in 2018 who gets a few down-ballot MVP votes. I think he's really good!
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Post by m1keyboots on Feb 9, 2018 11:28:20 GMT -5
Love the thread, however don't believe he'll be MVP next year or the year after likely.
He doesn't play a prime defensive position (hes not gold glove caliber anyway), and the offensive output although above-average isn't enough. In our awesome defensive outfield hed be the "weak link" with above-average defense of course
In his prime before his speed wanes, we can hope for 8-10 more homeruns, of course more doubles and his contact and walk profile suggest possibly 315 hitter. Soxprospects completely got it right when projecting him.
Now if he slashes 310/400/530 with bunches of doubles and triples while topping that arbitrary 30 HR mark and still nabbing 25 bases at a high clip maybe he gets consideration----
-----food for thought. Mike Trout broke his thumb and ended up with two thirds of a season and still hit 33 (28 doubles?)home runs and stole 22 bases closing in on 100 runs scored and RBIs in about 109 ganes. Posting his best walk rate ever. He became a better hitter after compromising his hand. There is no shame in finishing second to Mike Trout though during this hypothetical career year we hope for Beni.
I for one am perfectly happy with his projections on fangraphs, and of course the natural maturation process that will come with it, combined with better offensive production from the members of the lineup that were hurt or slumping.
I think him being left-handed with, ability to play all three Outfield positions, and speed is quite valuable to the Red Sox as he is.
Christian Vazquez for MVP!
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Post by voiceofreason on Feb 9, 2018 16:29:56 GMT -5
There are four players who have averaged a .400+ OBP over the last three years-- Votto, Trout, Goldschmidt and Harper. Predicting a 23-year-old player to be an MVP candidate in his second MLB season is bullish, to put it lightly. Steamer projects .287/.362/.471. That's more in line with what I would expect. Aaron Judge 2nd in MVP 2017 age 25 Mookie Betts 2nd in MVP 2016 2nd season age 23 Kris Bryant MVP 2016 2nd season age 24 Corey Seager 3rd in MVP 2nd season age 22 I don't think it's bullish to believe Benintendi can't compete and that it actually seems a possibility. Before last year who would have thought Judge had that type of season in him, he was never that great in the minors? Benny arguably had a better age 22/23 season while playing in Boston than Judge did at the same age playing single A. So I have to ask, who will end up having a better career? I don't think you can say definitively that Judge will, I happen to think he won't. I really really hope he ends up being a one year wonder, for obvious reasons. Benny was the national player of the year in both high school and college, I think we should be bullish!!!
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Post by jiant2520 on Feb 9, 2018 21:04:35 GMT -5
It's early in his career to label him anything, but to be compared to some of the names mentioned needs to hit lefties... he struggled very badly against them.
Until he shows he can hit lefties consistently, I will not be so bold in any predictions.
.290/.350/.475 would be welcomed, maybe 25HRs.
I also agree in that he is not the same caliber as Betts and Devers, but he is not too far behind in potential.
Betts is by far the best all around player and one of the best in all of MLB.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Feb 9, 2018 21:09:00 GMT -5
It's early in his career to label him anything, but to be compared to some of the names mentioned needs to hit lefties... he struggled very badly against them. Until he shows he can hit lefties consistently, I will not be so bold in any predictions. [...] Yaz hit .187 vs lhp in 1966
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Post by jiant2520 on Feb 9, 2018 21:12:28 GMT -5
I said it was early and I didn't want to label him.
Did Yaz start hitting lefties?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 9, 2018 21:14:55 GMT -5
It's early in his career to label him anything, but to be compared to some of the names mentioned needs to hit lefties... he struggled very badly against them. Until he shows he can hit lefties consistently, I will not be so bold in any predictions. [...] Yaz hit .187 vs lhp in 1966 Yaz is a HOF though...... Bringing that example to the table isn't good for comparison sake, unless you think Benintendi is HOF. Which again, is bullish as has many has used this term when comparing Benintendi to elite level ballplayers.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 10, 2018 19:03:40 GMT -5
There are four players who have averaged a .400+ OBP over the last three years-- Votto, Trout, Goldschmidt and Harper. Predicting a 23-year-old player to be an MVP candidate in his second MLB season is bullish, to put it lightly. Steamer projects .287/.362/.471. That's more in line with what I would expect. In fairness, I’m not projecting a 3-yr average. He’s a former #1 overall prospect at age 21. And the 26-point BA differential (which I think will largely be the result of improved performance vs LH) puts the Steamer projection at .313/.388/.497, which isn’t far off what I predicted. The Steamer projection falls right around where I saw his 50%, unsurprisingly. Yeah, I’m bullish on his hit tool, which accounts for about 70% of the OPS difference. The rest...mostly I just want bragging rights on calling a breakout lol.
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Post by fdrnewdeal on Feb 11, 2018 10:56:58 GMT -5
Benintendi will very likely put up All Star Quality numbers over his career. Not many 21 year olds start on a contender and produce like he did. I think we've been spoiled by the Trout, Betts, Lindor types.
That said. I could totally see Benintendi being a guy who gets overlooked because his value comes from being well rounded. Pretty good fielding outfielder in a corner, with a 60 bat and 55 defense.
That's a really good player but one that folks miss due to their numbers not being sexy. I think comps are by their nature kind of dumb, but instead of talking about Boggs or Brett, I think Benintendi looks more like Alex Gordon with more power and less defense.
That's a really good player.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Feb 11, 2018 13:49:42 GMT -5
Benintendi will very likely put up All Star Quality numbers over his career. Not many 21 year olds start on a contender and produce like he did. I think we've been spoiled by the Trout, Betts, Lindor types. That said. I could totally see Benintendi being a guy who gets overlooked because his value comes from being well rounded. Pretty good fielding outfielder in a corner, with a 60 bat and 55 defense. That's a really good player but one that folks miss due to their numbers not being sexy. I think comps are by their nature kind of dumb, but instead of talking about Boggs or Brett, I think Benintendi looks more like Alex Gordon with more power and less defense. That's a really good player. I agree with your point on Benintendi but I didn't like the comp so I went looking for someone closer. (Gordon is a converted 3b with a plus arm and plus-plus LF defense who is 6'1 220lbs and doesn't quite have Benintendi's contact skills) If you ask baseball reference for the closest comp at age 22 you get Dave Winfield. Winfield was 6'6 and played 20 years, so probably not the most realistic comp going forward. I actually found a very similar comp who is still playing.Same height (5'10") was a 50/55 CFer with similar bb (11.8 v 10.3) and k (17.8 v 17.7) rates. Both are borderline plus for speed (28.2-28.6 ft/sec over past two years) with 55/60 power potential. Although the power seems a bit higher for McCutchen, he actually didn't reach 20 homers/yr until his third year in the league and his career high is 31, which I think is reasonable for Benintendi to reach. However McCutchen added 15 lbs over Benintendi's current listed weight of 180 lbs and kept his speed. It will be interesting to see how much stronger Benintendi can get going forward. I'm not predicting Benintendi will ever have an 8.4 fWAR season, but I can see him being just slightly worse overall than McCutchen at his peak. (His WAR will be a fair bit less until he moves to CF)
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giltg
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When the eagle is silent , the parrots begin to jabber.
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Post by giltg on Feb 12, 2018 1:24:48 GMT -5
Benintendi Brett and Lynn
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