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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 25, 2018 12:56:59 GMT -5
To add to this, the player is returned only after clearing waivers, so when the player has been returned, every team has had the opportunity to add him to the 25-man roster at that point in time, under the standard Rule 5 rules. That said, these days, it's pretty rare for another team to pick that guy up on waivers. Yeah I was thinking about it, and I was thinking "baseball usually has a waiver wire period for these sort of things." Now I know thanks. I see Ockimey coming back. Kind of brilliant by the Sox if they don't end up losing him. They don't burn a option year on Ockimey if they don't lose him.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 25, 2018 13:35:58 GMT -5
Just wanted to add I would never hold it against a guy if he has so-so numbers when moving up the latter late in the season in a limited sample size. Not when he's fairly young for AAA at 22 and it wasn't even 30 games. Bad choice of words in saying he's at the age of breaking out. He's just at that place if he gets the chance to hit AAA pitching again next year where you really find out how good he can be.
Let's just hope he gets returned rather quickly.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 25, 2018 15:44:50 GMT -5
If the O's were looking for a pie in the sky DH/poor fielding 1b, they could always sign Alvarez to another milb deal. He has a history and is barely past 30.
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Post by controne on Nov 25, 2018 16:56:11 GMT -5
I don’t understand ... what would have been the downside of putting Ockimey on the 40? Someone the team felt had a better chance of being picked off would have been left unprotected. Not necessarily true. They're at 39. The better answer is probably that (1) exposing a player to Rule 5 is potentially less of a risk than the risk of exposing the player to waivers to remove him from the 40-man, (2) if they think may not add him to the 40-man this season (i.e., he won't get picked and they might not call him up), it allows them more flexibility on the 40-man, (3) they would rather protect the players they project to be on the 40-man roster entering the season than Ockimey (worded that way because they still may need to remove players from the roster this offseason if they make significant additions).
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Post by soxpatsceltics on Nov 25, 2018 16:57:01 GMT -5
I always wondered why teams never used rule 5 picks more liberally. The worst case scenario is that the guy is returned, and it only costs the team 100,000 for the opportunity to train and observe the player through the offseason and spring training. Like I understand that he sucks now, mostly because of injuries, but why wouldn't all teams be interested in drafting former #2 overall pick Tyler Kolek in the rule 5 and hoping that he finally has a healthy offseason and regains his 100mph velocity that was down to 94 after TJ? Sure it's not likely, but it's such a low-risk move.
In terms of realistic rule 5 guys, the Sox should look at Max Schrock, who really only struggled this year at AAA because his BABIP fell 80 points. His BB and K rate basically stayed the same, and Schrock is probably an upgrade over Nunez with a normalized BABIP in the majors.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 25, 2018 17:04:42 GMT -5
I always wondered why teams never used rule 5 picks more liberally. The worst case scenario is that the guy is returned, and it only costs the team 100,000 for the opportunity to train and observe the player through the offseason and spring training. Like I understand that he sucks now, mostly because of injuries, but why wouldn't all teams be interested in drafting former #2 overall pick Tyler Kolek in the rule 5 and hoping that he finally has a healthy offseason and regains his 100mph velocity that was down to 94 after TJ? Sure it's not likely, but it's such a low-risk move. In terms of realistic rule 5 guys, the Sox should look at Max Schrock, who really only struggled this year at AAA because his BABIP fell 80 points. His BB and K rate basically stayed the same, and Schrock is probably an upgrade over Nunez with a normalized BABIP in the majors. Well, the reason for the Red Sox to not do it is because there is an opportunity cost of playing better players like Holt and Lin over Schrock. Good teams don't have the time to figure out if someone is good enough to play in the majors especially when they already have better options on the roster. Lin and Holt are upgrades over Nunez. I doubt that he gets a ton of time at 2B next season unless he's hitting like he did after the trade deadline in 2017.
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Post by soxpatsceltics on Nov 25, 2018 18:17:08 GMT -5
I always wondered why teams never used rule 5 picks more liberally. The worst case scenario is that the guy is returned, and it only costs the team 100,000 for the opportunity to train and observe the player through the offseason and spring training. Like I understand that he sucks now, mostly because of injuries, but why wouldn't all teams be interested in drafting former #2 overall pick Tyler Kolek in the rule 5 and hoping that he finally has a healthy offseason and regains his 100mph velocity that was down to 94 after TJ? Sure it's not likely, but it's such a low-risk move. In terms of realistic rule 5 guys, the Sox should look at Max Schrock, who really only struggled this year at AAA because his BABIP fell 80 points. His BB and K rate basically stayed the same, and Schrock is probably an upgrade over Nunez with a normalized BABIP in the majors. Well, the reason for the Red Sox to not do it is because there is an opportunity cost of playing better players like Holt and Lin over Schrock. Good teams don't have the time to figure out if someone is good enough to play in the majors especially when they already have better options on the roster. Lin and Holt are upgrades over Nunez. I doubt that he gets a ton of time at 2B next season unless he's hitting like he did after the trade deadline in 2017. Well Lin at least has options. And Schrock certainly has a higher ceiling than either Lin or Holt as a guy that could realistically develop into a starting infielder. In a farm system that ranks consensus bottom 5 or even worse, getting a free prospect in Schrock and keeping him over Lin makes sense. Finding a new home for Nunez to save a taxed 5 million and starting the season with Schrock and Holt as the backups makes a good amount of sense... and like I said at the beginning, the risk is incredibly small.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 25, 2018 18:21:37 GMT -5
Well, the reason for the Red Sox to not do it is because there is an opportunity cost of playing better players like Holt and Lin over Schrock. Good teams don't have the time to figure out if someone is good enough to play in the majors especially when they already have better options on the roster. Lin and Holt are upgrades over Nunez. I doubt that he gets a ton of time at 2B next season unless he's hitting like he did after the trade deadline in 2017. Well Lin at least has options. And Schrock certainly has a higher ceiling than either Lin or Holt as a guy that could realistically develop into a starting infielder. In a farm system that ranks consensus bottom 5 or even worse, getting a free prospect in Schrock and keeping him over Lin makes sense. Finding a new home for Nunez to save a taxed 5 million and starting the season with Schrock and Holt as the backups makes a good amount of sense... and like I said at the beginning, the risk is incredibly small. I would be on board, even if the Sox had to DFA Nunez. I don't see it happening though. The Sox are trying to bring back mostly all of the players from last year's team. The Sox could use all the Xander replacements they can get if he potentially bolts in free agency.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 26, 2018 11:38:52 GMT -5
Kind of brilliant by the Sox if they don't end up losing him. They don't burn a option year on Ockimey if they don't lose him. For what it's worth, I see this as an argument why adding Reyes and not Ockimey is surprising. If Ockimey, who has already reached AAA, isn't ready to be a full-time major leaguer by 2022, he'll have been DFA long before then and likely cleared waivers. I don't see saving an option as a legitimate reason not to add him to the 40-man. Meanwhile, Reyes, who has made 6 starts in High A, could still realistically be a legitimate prospect in 2022 and still need time in the minors. For example, say he gets TJ and misses a full season. Heck, he could even get there without injury (full-ish season in Salem in 2019, Portland in 2020, Pawtucket in 2021... out of options), although certainly he wouldn't be a stud at that point in that scenario. (And yes, this is exactly why IFAs signed at 16 need 6 years before Rule 5 eligibility - only superstars are ready after 5 years) Ian and I discussed this on the podcast episode that'll come out this week. One thought is that the way pitching roles are shifting could've made protecting Reyes more prudent - could a team like the Rays use him in a piggyback role now? Maybe.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 26, 2018 11:50:43 GMT -5
Kind of brilliant by the Sox if they don't end up losing him. They don't burn a option year on Ockimey if they don't lose him. For what it's worth, I see this as an argument why adding Reyes and not Ockimey is surprising. If Ockimey, who has already reached AAA, isn't ready to be a full-time major leaguer by 2022, he'll have been DFA long before then and likely cleared waivers. I don't see saving an option as a legitimate reason not to add him to the 40-man. Meanwhile, Reyes, who has made 6 starts in High A, could still realistically be a legitimate prospect in 2022 and still need time in the minors. For example, say he gets TJ and misses a full season. Heck, he could even get there without injury (full-ish season in Salem in 2019, Portland in 2020, Pawtucket in 2021... out of options), although certainly he wouldn't be a stud at that point in that scenario. (And yes, this is exactly why IFAs signed at 16 need 6 years before Rule 5 eligibility - only superstars are ready after 5 years) Ian and I discussed this on the podcast episode that'll come out this week. One thought is that the way pitching roles are shifting could've made protecting Reyes more prudent - could a team like the Rays use him in a piggyback role now? Maybe. They probably want to prevent the Orioles from screwing with his development by giving him 5 innings in the majors followed by 3 months of DL, forcing him to miss basically an entire season of development before he's returned. Maybe the new Orioles management will focus on developing a team instead of trolling the Red Sox with Rule 5 picks.
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Post by daltonjones on Nov 26, 2018 15:18:14 GMT -5
I don't much understand the Minor League phases of the Rule 5 draft. I assume it is meant to be a mechanism for a team with a weak-ish farm system to improve, if only just a little. Is this the case? Do we have any opportunities here?
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Post by soxin8 on Nov 26, 2018 15:48:40 GMT -5
Huh, something I just noticed while discussing Ockimey with the brass that I just wanted to throw out there: Year-by-year, Ockimey thru June 31 and from July 1 onward: 2016: .291/.423/.517, 25% K rate; .141/.293/.305, 27.0% K rate* 2017: .283/.404/.434, 23.4% K rate; .262/.357/.436, 29.8% K rate 2018**: .252/.377/.463, 27.6% K rate; .237/.329/.446, 35% K rate (* - Note 2016 swoon comes with a brutal .161 BABIP that's at least partially to blame ** - Note that if you give him 10 games to get his feet under him after returning from a hamstring injury that postponed the start to his season, his first half numbers are much better: .262/.396/.497, 26.1 % K rate) I wonder if Ockimey struggling in AAA was more about his having a late-season swoon than about struggling against AAA pitching? He was pretty bad in the last few weeks in AA as well. .169/.275/.339 in his last 17 games before the promotion. On the one hand - if he can fix that, that'd be a very good thing. On the other hand - it's not great if this is a thing in year five of his pro career. I wonder if these splits make him more attractive if you're committed to a platoon where he never gets more than 400 at-bats and never hits that second split.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 26, 2018 17:28:22 GMT -5
I don't much understand the Minor League phases of the Rule 5 draft. I assume it is meant to be a mechanism for a team with a weak-ish farm system to improve, if only just a little. Is this the case? Do we have any opportunities here? Very unlikely. Generally, teams get to protect so many players that only non-prospects get exposed.
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Post by soxin8 on Nov 27, 2018 15:35:00 GMT -5
I don't much understand the Minor League phases of the Rule 5 draft. I assume it is meant to be a mechanism for a team with a weak-ish farm system to improve, if only just a little. Is this the case? Do we have any opportunities here? Very unlikely. Generally, teams get to protect so many players that only non-prospects get exposed. jimed, I love your new signature quote that speaks of the inspiration Cora was but don't know which player said it. Would you add name?
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 27, 2018 16:11:08 GMT -5
Very unlikely. Generally, teams get to protect so many players that only non-prospects get exposed. jimed, I love your new signature quote that speaks of the inspiration Cora was but don't know which player said it. Would you add name? I think it was Porcello, but it's all a blur now.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 27, 2018 17:30:22 GMT -5
jimed, I love your new signature quote that speaks of the inspiration Cora was but don't know which player said it. Would you add name? I think it was Porcello, but it's all a blur now. I think it was Xander who said that quote.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Nov 27, 2018 18:56:45 GMT -5
I think it was Porcello, but it's all a blur now. I think it was Xander who said that quote. I was thinking Porcello as well. ADD: Google search, Porcello: Porcello was one of those crying.And then one by one, every player, coach and staff member lined up to take turns hugging Eovaldi—and not one of those quick, “Good game, bro” hugs.“I’m talking like a minute hug each,” Porcello says. “What Nathan did was the epitome of what our team is about. Every player does whatever he can to try to help the team win. This is what sports should be about. It’s about everybody pulling together.“We just lost a World Series game in 18 innings. But after that [meeting], it didn’t feel like we lost. It felt like we won.”www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/this-was-alex-cora%E2%80%99s-message-in-red-sox-team-meeting-after-world-series-game-3-loss/ar-BBP6ATu
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 27, 2018 20:10:19 GMT -5
I think it was Xander who said that quote. I was thinking Porcello as well. ADD: Google search, Porcello: Porcello was one of those crying.And then one by one, every player, coach and staff member lined up to take turns hugging Eovaldi—and not one of those quick, “Good game, bro” hugs.“I’m talking like a minute hug each,” Porcello says. “What Nathan did was the epitome of what our team is about. Every player does whatever he can to try to help the team win. This is what sports should be about. It’s about everybody pulling together.“We just lost a World Series game in 18 innings. But after that [meeting], it didn’t feel like we lost. It felt like we won.”www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/this-was-alex-cora%E2%80%99s-message-in-red-sox-team-meeting-after-world-series-game-3-loss/ar-BBP6ATuAnd come on now Nate, remember this night and re-sign here for less.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 28, 2018 0:09:30 GMT -5
jimed, I love your new signature quote that speaks of the inspiration Cora was but don't know which player said it. Would you add name? I think it was Porcello, but it's all a blur now. It sounds like Porcello did say it, but he wasn't the only one. I found this quote in a nesn.com article: Cora’s speech had a profound impact on his players and turned the tide in the Fall Classic. “It was emotional,” shortstop Xander Bogaerts said, via ESPN. “By the end of it, we felt like we won the game.” I guess that just about everybody on that team felt that way. Must have been one helluva speech by the best manager in baseball.
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Post by gerry on Nov 28, 2018 4:35:19 GMT -5
A speech to the best team in baseball that clearly enjoy being together. I know its the season for trade talk, but the Sox need maybe a little salt and pepper, not a whole new menu.
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Post by soxin8 on Dec 4, 2018 14:35:08 GMT -5
Anyone care to speculate on who will draft Ockimey on the 13th? Sickels seemed convinced a National league team would not because of his first base defense. The Mariners seem like a candidate based on their off season moves as well as the Orioles who will probably not contend after a 100 loss season. Anyone else? His chances of staying the entire year gives me hope he may get returned.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 4, 2018 20:35:53 GMT -5
Anyone care to speculate on who will draft Ockimey on the 13th? Sickels seemed convinced a National league team would not because of his first base defense. The Mariners seem like a candidate based on their off season moves as well as the Orioles who will probably not contend after a 100 loss season. Anyone else? His chances of staying the entire year gives me hope he may get returned. The Orioles have no shortstop on their 40 man and have Chris Davis. I doubt if Ockimey will last until their second pick.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 5, 2018 9:57:01 GMT -5
I think a team that takes Ockimey is doing so to take a flyer on him, not to plug him into the starting lineup. For that reason, I'm not sure there's much to speculate on. More important than current roster construction is probably what an organization's northeast pro scout thought of him.
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Post by mandelbro on Dec 5, 2018 14:27:18 GMT -5
I don't much understand the Minor League phases of the Rule 5 draft. I assume it is meant to be a mechanism for a team with a weak-ish farm system to improve, if only just a little. Is this the case? Do we have any opportunities here? It’s meant to give blocked players a chance in a new organization.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Dec 7, 2018 21:42:15 GMT -5
Chris Cotillo Verified account @chriscotillo
Lot of talk about Josh Ockimey potentially getting taken in Rule 5 draft, but I'd think the Sox are also in danger of losing Austin Maddox. He's not on the 40-man roster and is an easy DL candidate for clubs.
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