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Hanley Designated for Assignment
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Post by soxfando on May 25, 2018 16:37:02 GMT -5
DD still had about 300 more Hanley plate appearances before he needed to start worrying about that. No because as Chris pointed out, the Sox had a way out early. The closer you get to the end of those plate appearances, the more leverage that Hanley Ramirez had to file a grievance to get his money for that vesting option. You also have a potential disgruntled Hanley not playing a lot because of his plate appearance situation. It's the right move to do this now, especially since he's not hitting. There are ways to limit at bats besides DFA'ing. Platoon, bench bat, sitting him for a while to "work on his swing" during cold streaks. You have a ready excuse in Mitch Moreland, especially when he's swinging well. |
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 25, 2018 16:37:38 GMT -5
From ESPN:I had concluded that Nunez was going on the DL and was eventually going to be DFA'd. That's the logical move, given that he has almost no role on the bench if Pedroia is healthy, and that in Lin they have a guy in AAA who is better than him. This is such a baffling move from the position of organizational depth (even ignoring the fact that Travis and Castillo have been awful at AAA) that I concluded that it had to be a clubhouse thing. There's no way that DDo assents to Cora's idea unless the evidence Cora gives for why he thinks Hanley will not be a happy camper playing half the time or so is already troubling. I'm guessing that he's become disengaged and isn't working at getting out of his ever-worsening funk.
Any injury to one of Betts, Benintendi, Bradley, Martinez, or Moreland means that Eduardo Nunez, Blake Swihart, or Brock Holt is in your lineup. Your bench lacks a hitter capable of batting elsewhere than 9. And your AAA team lacks a player worth recalling to fill the roster spot. This is a really serious weakness on a team with first-place aspirations. Another way of looking at this: given Leon's pitch-calling skills and the fact that he's hit .417 / .481 / .583 in his last 8 G / 23 PA, raising the possibility that he could continue for a while like he has in the past, I had become perfectly comfortable with keeping three catchers on the roster for most or all of the year. But that only works if the other two guys on the bench are both great bench players. Brock Holt is a great bench player.
They have to be looking to eventually (by which I mean ASAP) move Nunez and get a real extra bench bat.
It would be great if someone would take on any of Hanley's contract to ease the tax situation. That only happens if two teams are interested. Are there two contending teams that badly need a regular 1B or DH? I'll look into that in a bit. It seems unlikely. Which means that you can start thinking about the 36 pick instead of the 26 losing 10 places in next June's draft, duh! Someone might want to check me, but I don't think the difference in value between a pick at the end of the first round and ten picks later is bigger than the difference between Unknown Necessary Bench Upgrade* and Nunez. You're likely talking about losing just a couple of guys on your draft board. BTW, Bryce Brentz -- who would certainly have cleared waivers had they held on to him until the end of ST -- is hitting .343 / .429 / .776 in his last 19 G / 77 PA in AAA, after starting the season .154 / .171 / .154 in 10 G / 41 PA. Even with the slow start he's up to 9th in all of AAA in wRC+ (of 142 qualifiers). Sure glad we've kept Williams Jerez in the system instead!
* Another research project.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 25, 2018 16:39:44 GMT -5
The Sox are also 13-9 in May with Hanley hitting in the upper part of the order and hitting like a replacement level player. This team can win without Hanley and the lineup construction is now way better off for it because Hanley isn't in the top third of the lineup anymore. Right, because Swihart is so much better of a hitter than Hanley, obviously. Swihart? No. You're not looking at this the right way. Moreland is a much better hitter than Hanley is right now versus RHP and Swihart is most likely going to get better with more at bats. Hanley probably is the better hitter against LHP, but again, you face these type of arms a whopping 25-30 percent of a season. Not a huge drop off in terms of wins when you go from Hanley to Swihart/Moreland platoon versus LHP, especially when you factor in all that time facing RHP. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 25, 2018 16:41:24 GMT -5
No because as Chris pointed out, the Sox had a way out early. The closer you get to the end of those plate appearances, the more leverage that Hanley Ramirez had to file a grievance to get his money for that vesting option. You also have a potential disgruntled Hanley not playing a lot because of his plate appearance situation. It's the right move to do this now, especially since he's not hitting. There are ways to limit at bats besides DFA'ing. Platoon, bench bat, sitting him for a while to "work on his swing" during cold streaks. You have a ready excuse in Mitch Moreland, especially when he's swinging well. Yeah and Hanley would have probably had a huge problem *with all of those scenarios to limit his at bats.* That's the part you're leaving out. |
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Post by soxfando on May 25, 2018 16:53:22 GMT -5
There are ways to limit at bats besides DFA'ing. Platoon, bench bat, sitting him for a while to "work on his swing" during cold streaks. You have a ready excuse in Mitch Moreland, especially when he's swinging well. Yeah and Hanley would have probably had a huge problem *with all of those scenarios to limit his at bats.* That's the part you're leaving out. Right, but he's probably totally cool with being DFA'd in May from a world series contender and a team he specifically sought out during his free agency. |
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Post by swingingbunt on May 25, 2018 17:00:30 GMT -5
Of course I would have loved to see Hanley perform better than he did, but considering his reputation, I absolutely can't complain about his time here. Hanley did anything the team asked of him, worked hard, and always had a smile on his face. I'll miss him.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on May 25, 2018 17:00:37 GMT -5
I assume Cora recommended this because he thinks Nunez and Swihart are better than they have been this year.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on May 25, 2018 17:00:48 GMT -5
Yeah and Hanley would have probably had a huge problem *with all of those scenarios to limit his at bats.* That's the part you're leaving out. Right, but he's probably totally cool with being DFA'd in May from a world series contender and a team he specifically sought out during his free agency. Well all of that isn't the Red Sox problem now, so I don't know why that matters. It would have been their problem if he was here and making a big stink of his situation however. |
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Post by dirtdog on May 25, 2018 17:03:37 GMT -5
There are ways to limit at bats besides DFA'ing. Platoon, bench bat, sitting him for a while to "work on his swing" during cold streaks. You have a ready excuse in Mitch Moreland, especially when he's swinging well. Yeah and Hanley would have probably had a huge problem *with all of those scenarios to limit his at bats.* That's the part you're leaving out. Remember what a pain in the rear Manny was when the Sox werent giving him a new deal, I think 2009. I think a big part of this was avoiding that scenario again when Hanley figured out he wasnt getting 490 PAs. Cut in May to avoid July and August tantrums in the heat of a penant race. |
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Post by jimed14 on May 25, 2018 17:24:17 GMT -5
From ESPN:I had concluded that Nunez was going on the DL and was eventually going to be DFA'd. That's the logical move, given that he has almost no role on the bench if Pedroia is healthy, and that in Lin they have a guy in AAA who is better than him. This is such a baffling move from the position of organizational depth (even ignoring the fact that Travis and Castillo have been awful at AAA) that I concluded that it had to be a clubhouse thing. There's no way that DDo assents to Cora's idea unless the evidence Cora gives for why he thinks Hanley will not be a happy camper playing half the time or so is already troubling. I'm guessing that he's become disengaged and isn't working at getting out of his ever-worsening funk.
Any injury to one of Betts, Benintendi, Bradley, Martinez, or Moreland means that Eduardo Nunez, Blake Swihart, or Brock Holt is in your lineup. Your bench lacks a hitter capable of batting elsewhere than 9. And your AAA team lacks a player worth recalling to fill the roster spot. This is a really serious weakness on a team with first-place aspirations. Another way of looking at this: given Leon's pitch-calling skills and the fact that he's hit .417 / .481 / .583 in his last 8 G / 23 PA, raising the possibility that he could continue for a while like he has in the past, I had become perfectly comfortable with keeping three catchers on the roster for most or all of the year. But that only works if the other two guys on the bench are both great bench players. Brock Holt is a great bench player.
They have to be looking to eventually (by which I mean ASAP) move Nunez and get a real extra bench bat.
It would be great if someone would take on any of Hanley's contract to ease the tax situation. That only happens if two teams are interested. Are there two contending teams that badly need a regular 1B or DH? I'll look into that in a bit. It seems unlikely. Which means that you can start thinking about the 36 pick instead of the 26. Someone might want to check me, but I don't think the difference in value between the two picks is bigger than the difference between Unknown Necessary Bench Upgrade* and Nunez. You're likely talking about losing just a couple of guys on your draft board. BTW, Bryce Brentz -- who would certainly have cleared waivers had they held on to him until the end of ST -- is hitting .343 / .429 / .776 in his last 19 G / 77 PA in AAA, after starting the season .154 / .171 / .154 in 10 G / 41 PA. Even with the slow start he's up to 9th in all of AAA in wRC+ (of 142 qualifiers). Sure glad we've kept Williams Jerez in the system instead!
* Another research project.
The draft pick penalty would be for next season, not this one given that they won't spend the $237 million + until the season is about over. Not that it matters much. |
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Post by soxfando on May 25, 2018 17:26:47 GMT -5
Yeah and Hanley would have probably had a huge problem *with all of those scenarios to limit his at bats.* That's the part you're leaving out. Remember what a pain in the rear Manny was when the Sox werent giving him a new deal, I think 2009. I think a big part of this was avoiding that scenario again when Hanley figured out he wasnt getting 490 PAs. Cut in May to avoid July and August tantrums in the heat of a penant race. Assuming the Sox are still in the pennant race after Moreland cools down.
And assuming that Hanley would actually throw tantrums. Seems like he'd be more interested in winning a World Series, especially since the DFA voids his vesting option anyway.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 25, 2018 17:28:12 GMT -5
There are two really viable bench bat additions on the 7 tanking teams.
The Reds' Adam Duvall is a terrific defensive LF who's a borderline MLB starter because he can't hit RHP. But he has some pop vs. LHP. And he has 228 MLB inning at 1B and has been very good (DRS) or average (UZR) defensively. He's 29 but isn't even arb-eligible until next year, which means he has 4 years of control.
The O's Danny Valencia is on a 1/$1.2M, has always raked vs. LHP, and has 1203 innings at 1B in MLB with a +4 DRS. He could spell Moreland, back up Devers (although he's a marginal defender at 3B), and can play OF in a pinch.
Either of these would be hugely more useful than Nunez, unless he suddenly turns into his pre-knee-injury self (not impossible if he's not playing every day).
If I'm DDo, I call both teams, say "don't deal this guy without talking to us," and then see how Nunez plays coming off the bench for the next few weeks.
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Post by soxfando on May 25, 2018 17:31:27 GMT -5
Right, but he's probably totally cool with being DFA'd in May from a world series contender and a team he specifically sought out during his free agency. Well all of that isn't the Red Sox problem now, so I don't know why that matters. It would have been their problem if he was here and making a big stink of his situation however. It will be interesting to see if DD can still offer vesting options to free agents to increase the value of a contract offer. Or if this means more guaranteed money up front now. |
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 25, 2018 17:33:47 GMT -5
Which means that you can start thinking about the 36 pick instead of the 26. The draft pick penalty would be for next season, not this one given that they won't spend the $237 million + until the season is about over. Not that it matters much. Duh! Fixed it in the original post. Now to look into seeing if anyone needs Hanley ... |
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jimoh
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Posts: 3,968
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Post by jimoh on May 25, 2018 17:37:31 GMT -5
Newly released Adam Lind for Pawsox 1b?
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,968
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Post by jimoh on May 25, 2018 17:39:24 GMT -5
The draft pick penalty would be for next season, not this one given that they won't spend the $237 million + until the season is about over. Not that it matters much. Duh! Fixed it in the original post. Now to look into seeing if anyone needs Hanley ... I was going to make this same comment, but figured what you really meant was "the difference between [something like pick 26] and [something like pick 36] in June 2019." |
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Post by mattpicard on May 25, 2018 17:45:46 GMT -5
There are two really viable bench bat additions on the 7 tanking teams.
The Reds' Adam Duvall is a terrific defensive LF who's a borderline MLB starter because he can't hit RHP. But he has some pop vs. LHP. And he has 228 MLB inning at 1B and has been very good (DRS) or average (UZR) defensively. He's 29 but isn't even arb-eligible until next year, which means he has 4 years of control.
The O's Danny Valencia is on a 1/$1.2M, has always raked vs. LHP, and has 1203 innings at 1B in MLB with a +4 DRS. He could spell Moreland, back up Devers (although he's a marginal defender at 3B), and can play OF in a pinch. Either of these would be hugely more useful than Nunez, unless he suddenly turns into his pre-knee-injury self (not impossible if he's not playing every day). If I'm DDo, I call both teams, say "don't deal this guy without talking to us," and then see how Nunez plays coming off the bench for the next few weeks.
The Sox said today that they're not going to give Nunez a look at first base, so Duvall and Valencia are probably more useful regardless. Like the Duvall idea a lot, as someone to have in the lineup vs lefties at the expense of Moreland, Bradley, or JDM. It'd leave us with only LHH's at third base (unless they suddenly start letting Swihart play there), but that's not a huge deal. |
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Post by soxfando on May 25, 2018 17:54:18 GMT -5
There are two really viable bench bat additions on the 7 tanking teams.
The Reds' Adam Duvall is a terrific defensive LF who's a borderline MLB starter because he can't hit RHP. But he has some pop vs. LHP. And he has 228 MLB inning at 1B and has been very good (DRS) or average (UZR) defensively. He's 29 but isn't even arb-eligible until next year, which means he has 4 years of control.
The O's Danny Valencia is on a 1/$1.2M, has always raked vs. LHP, and has 1203 innings at 1B in MLB with a +4 DRS. He could spell Moreland, back up Devers (although he's a marginal defender at 3B), and can play OF in a pinch.
Either of these would be hugely more useful than Nunez, unless he suddenly turns into his pre-knee-injury self (not impossible if he's not playing every day).
If I'm DDo, I call both teams, say "don't deal this guy without talking to us," and then see how Nunez plays coming off the bench for the next few weeks.
Duvall is batting .177 overall, and .194 against lefties... |
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Post by mattpicard on May 25, 2018 17:56:05 GMT -5
There are two really viable bench bat additions on the 7 tanking teams.
The Reds' Adam Duvall is a terrific defensive LF who's a borderline MLB starter because he can't hit RHP. But he has some pop vs. LHP. And he has 228 MLB inning at 1B and has been very good (DRS) or average (UZR) defensively. He's 29 but isn't even arb-eligible until next year, which means he has 4 years of control.
The O's Danny Valencia is on a 1/$1.2M, has always raked vs. LHP, and has 1203 innings at 1B in MLB with a +4 DRS. He could spell Moreland, back up Devers (although he's a marginal defender at 3B), and can play OF in a pinch. Either of these would be hugely more useful than Nunez, unless he suddenly turns into his pre-knee-injury self (not impossible if he's not playing every day). If I'm DDo, I call both teams, say "don't deal this guy without talking to us," and then see how Nunez plays coming off the bench for the next few weeks.
Duvall is batting .177 overall, and .194 against lefties... Adam Duvall vs lefties in 2018: OBP: .396 SLG: .556 OPS: .951 12/11 BB/K ratio .143 BABIP He's also chasing less pitches outside the zone than ever, and has a career high contact rate and walk rate. C'mon - get outta here with only citing batting average. |
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on May 25, 2018 17:58:08 GMT -5
From ESPN:I had concluded that Nunez was going on the DL and was eventually going to be DFA'd. That's the logical move, given that he has almost no role on the bench. This is a really serious weakness It would be great if someone would take on any of Hanley's contract to ease the tax situation. That only happens if two teams are interested. Are there two contending teams that badly need a regular 1B or DH? I'll look into that in a bit.
ou're likely talking about losing just a couple of guys on your draft board. BTW, Bryce Brentz -- who would certainly have cleared
Colorado Detroit |
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Post by soxfando on May 25, 2018 17:58:50 GMT -5
Duvall is batting .177 overall, and .194 against lefties... Adam Duvall vs lefties in 2018: OBP: .396 SLG: .556 OPS: .951 12/11 BB/K ratio .143 BABIP C'mon - get outta here with only citing batting average. Fair enough, but is he cool with a platoon playing in about 25-30% of the games, or will he start throwing tantrums and demanding trades, ala Hanley and Swihart? |
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Post by telson13 on May 25, 2018 18:10:37 GMT -5
I'm pretty shocked at this, but I expect that they'll be able to eat enough money to trade him and possibly save a few bucks that could be used in other ways, such as bringing up Castillo. I don't really understand the elation from anyone. Hanley is an awesome dude and does work hard. I'm kind of sad about this. I guess this is one way of getting him out of the #3 spot. Yeah, I have very strong mixed feelings. I think Hanley’s been, despite the reputation, a good personality to have on the team. He’s able to laugh at himself, and have fun with the game. Despite history, i think he’s been nothing but a positive in the clubhouse, at least from what I’ve seen/heard. I really like him. He’s done whatever they’ve asked of him, and they’ve asked a lot. That said, his performance has really dropped off. His salary this year is a sunk cost, and they couldn’t let his option vest as even a 100 wRC+ player. I get that he’s historically hit good pitching, but I’m not confident in his ability to consistently do so going forward. And, I think DFAing Swihart would be a huge mistake. He’s extremely talented and I think they really ought to have a long look at him. He could bust, but obviously Cora went to bat for him and I think that means something. Further, as some have noted, Nunez has more positional flexibility than Hanley, and a heap option. Given similar offensive output, and the possibility of increasing playing time for Moreland (who’s having a career year), Holt, Swihart, and working in Pedey with some backup if he has a setback...idk. It’s a bold move, and I like it as a baseball/roster decision, even if part of me is really sad to see Hanley the person gone. |
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on May 25, 2018 18:17:35 GMT -5
Adam Duvall vs lefties in 2018: OBP: .396 SLG: .556 OPS: .951 12/11 BB/K ratio .143 BABIP C'mon - get outta here with only citing batting average. Fair enough, but is he cool with a platoon playing in about 25-30% of the games, or will he start throwing tantrums and demanding trades, ala Hanley and Swihart? Adam Duvall was an 11th round draft pick who was the #13 prospect on the #26 best farm system. Unless he's somewhat delusional, at no point in his professional career did he ever expect to start in MLB, and he only earned a starting job at age 27 because he played for a terrible team. Becoming the backup 1B and 4th OFer on one of the two best teams in MLB would be like going from being Rosanne Arnold's significant other to Marisa Tomei's friend with benefits. |
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Post by telson13 on May 25, 2018 18:21:16 GMT -5
I think I have more confidence in Moreland than most. He has been very productive when healthy while in Boston hopefully that continues! I think Eric did an analysis showing that Moreland is a significantly better hitter with lineup protection, so I do think there’s a chance he continues to hit well (although obviously not 166 wRC+-well). I certainly don’t see finishing the year around 120-130 as a wholly unreasonable hope, particularly if he’s being platooned. |
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Post by telson13 on May 25, 2018 18:25:35 GMT -5
DD still had about 300 more Hanley plate appearances before he needed to start worrying about that. No because as Chris pointed out, the Sox had a way out early. The closer you get to the end of those plate appearances, the more leverage that Hanley Ramirez had to file a grievance to get his money for that vesting option. You also have a potential disgruntled Hanley not playing a lot because of his plate appearance situation. It's the right move to do this now, especially since he's not hitting. Pedro, I think you’re dead-on here. It’s “forced” by the Pedroia-Swihart situation, but that could’ve been finagled. I think they’re eliminating a potential mess/distraction |
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