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Hanley Designated for Assignment
redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 26, 2018 22:58:59 GMT -5
I have to say I'm surprised how many people dislike this move. No Ramirez, means we keep Swihart and can actually get him playing time. That is huge when looking at this from a long-term point of view, even if its a slight downgrade this year. Swihart is a lot better bench player than Ramirez anyway. I’m not sure that Swihart playing more 1B gets them anywhere, even from a long term point of view. He’s not really a good enough hitter to be more than a backup (frankly, an emergency) option at that position. Yes, it also gives Swihart a little more rope to see if he can make it at catcher, but if they basically weren’t willing to play him at catcher at all even with Vazquez/Leon playing as poorly as they have to start this season, I’m not sure Swihart is going to get much more of a shot at that position. It puts them in the same spot of needing a trade or injury to get him playing time at catcher (which is the position he needs to play to be a long-term starter). ADD: in theory, Swihart’s defensive flexibility makes him a more useful bench player, but the Red Sox have shown no inclination to actually play him at multiple positions. He’s had three appearances in LF this season and two at catcher, but has otherwise has two appearances at 1B and eight at DH. At those latter two positions, he’s frankly just worse than Ramirez. Yup. This. I like Swihart's bat, but as a catcher. He has a nice bat - for a catcher, particularly when your other catching bats are Vazquez and Leon. As a 1b/dh he's not better than Ramirez and I do think they'll need to find somebody to get those RH bats against lefties, somebody who can do damage against lefties. I do think the Sox will miss Hanley's bat. The guy has been great the last two Octobers and he hits Yankee pitching pretty well. I think he had another hot streak or two left in him. Like I said, I totally get why they don't want him to get the 22 million dollar option, but I do think they will need to replace his bat. I don't think simply penciling in Swihart at DH/1b is going to do much to help them. I'd much prefer the Sox see what they have in Swihart behind the plate because if he can't cut it defensively behind the plate, they might as well get rid of him. His value drops a lot if he can't be a viable catcher.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 27, 2018 11:09:58 GMT -5
I have to say I'm surprised how many people dislike this move. No Ramirez, means we keep Swihart and can actually get him playing time. That is huge when looking at this from a long-term point of view, even if its a slight downgrade this year. Swihart is a lot better bench player than Ramirez anyway. I’m not sure that Swihart playing more 1B gets them anywhere, even from a long term point of view. He’s not really a good enough hitter to be more than a backup (frankly, an emergency) option at that position. Yes, it also gives Swihart a little more rope to see if he can make it at catcher, but if they basically weren’t willing to play him at catcher at all even with Vazquez/Leon playing as poorly as they have to start this season, I’m not sure Swihart is going to get much more of a shot at that position. It puts them in the same spot of needing a trade or injury to get him playing time at catcher (which is the position he needs to play to be a long-term starter). ADD: in theory, Swihart’s defensive flexibility makes him a more useful bench player, but the Red Sox have shown no inclination to actually play him at multiple positions. He’s had three appearances in LF this season and two at catcher, but has otherwise has two appearances at 1B and eight at DH. At those latter two positions, he’s frankly just worse than Ramirez. Cora said we could see him start games at catcher now. Asked what changed he thought Swihart was gone when Pedroia came back. Seems like a crap answer, but things have changed in Cora's opinion. Lets see what the young cheap cost controlled player can do. At the very least he could increase his trade value for the deadline. Also not like Ramirez set a high bar with his bat, I can see Swihart having a .700 OPS easily, he's already done that in two years and thats almost his career average even with this years crap numbers. Long-term it's all about getting Swihart to catcher or increasing his trade value. If it doesn't workout make a trade at the deadline. At least you gave Swihart a chance to prove himself. Nevermind an injury in the OF could really change things and its bound to happen at some point.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 27, 2018 11:13:06 GMT -5
I’m not sure that Swihart playing more 1B gets them anywhere, even from a long term point of view. He’s not really a good enough hitter to be more than a backup (frankly, an emergency) option at that position. Yes, it also gives Swihart a little more rope to see if he can make it at catcher, but if they basically weren’t willing to play him at catcher at all even with Vazquez/Leon playing as poorly as they have to start this season, I’m not sure Swihart is going to get much more of a shot at that position. It puts them in the same spot of needing a trade or injury to get him playing time at catcher (which is the position he needs to play to be a long-term starter). ADD: in theory, Swihart’s defensive flexibility makes him a more useful bench player, but the Red Sox have shown no inclination to actually play him at multiple positions. He’s had three appearances in LF this season and two at catcher, but has otherwise has two appearances at 1B and eight at DH. At those latter two positions, he’s frankly just worse than Ramirez. Yup. This. I like Swihart's bat, but as a catcher. He has a nice bat - for a catcher, particularly when your other catching bats are Vazquez and Leon. As a 1b/dh he's not better than Ramirez and I do think they'll need to find somebody to get those RH bats against lefties, somebody who can do damage against lefties. I do think the Sox will miss Hanley's bat. The guy has been great the last two Octobers and he hits Yankee pitching pretty well. I think he had another hot streak or two left in him. Like I said, I totally get why they don't want him to get the 22 million dollar option, but I do think they will need to replace his bat. I don't think simply penciling in Swihart at DH/1b is going to do much to help them. I'd much prefer the Sox see what they have in Swihart behind the plate because if he can't cut it defensively behind the plate, they might as well get rid of him. His value drops a lot if he can't be a viable catcher. Ramirez was great last October, not sure where you get he was great the last two. He had a .667 OPS in 2016. Yet your not the only one saying that either. Which is highly confusing, what am I missing?
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 27, 2018 11:39:56 GMT -5
Yup. This. I like Swihart's bat, but as a catcher. He has a nice bat - for a catcher, particularly when your other catching bats are Vazquez and Leon. As a 1b/dh he's not better than Ramirez and I do think they'll need to find somebody to get those RH bats against lefties, somebody who can do damage against lefties. I do think the Sox will miss Hanley's bat. The guy has been great the last two Octobers and he hits Yankee pitching pretty well. I think he had another hot streak or two left in him. Like I said, I totally get why they don't want him to get the 22 million dollar option, but I do think they will need to replace his bat. I don't think simply penciling in Swihart at DH/1b is going to do much to help them. I'd much prefer the Sox see what they have in Swihart behind the plate because if he can't cut it defensively behind the plate, they might as well get rid of him. His value drops a lot if he can't be a viable catcher. Ramirez was great last October, not sure where you get he was great the last two. He had a .667 OPS in 2016. Yet your not the only one saying that either. Which is highly confusing, what am I missing? I stand corrected. He was mediocre in the 2016 ALDS, which left him their 3rd best hitter behind Benintendi and Holt. My image/memory of him that series was coming thru with an RBI hit when Francona intentionally walked Ortiz in his last plate appearance in the 3rd game and the Sox were at that point fighting for their playoff lives. I must have assumed he played better than he did. My mistake. My image of him against the Yankees is that 4 game series where he singlehandedly destroyed them in Sept 2016 when the Yanks had a shot at catching the Sox and the Sox swept them 4 in a row knocking them out. The Yankees couldn't get Hanley out and his HR in the last of the 9th against Betances was unforgettable. Is it an image of mine that Hanley hit the Yankees well or did he in fact hit the Yankees well? I think he did, but I could be mistaken there, too. I do know that he was awesome in last year's ALDS.
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Post by soxfando on May 27, 2018 12:40:39 GMT -5
Ramirez was great last October, not sure where you get he was great the last two. He had a .667 OPS in 2016. Yet your not the only one saying that either. Which is highly confusing, what am I missing? I stand corrected. He was mediocre in the 2016 ALDS, which left him their 3rd best hitter behind Benintendi and Holt. My image/memory of him that series was coming thru with an RBI hit when Francona intentionally walked Ortiz in his last plate appearance in the 3rd game and the Sox were at that point fighting for their playoff lives. I must have assumed he played better than he did. My mistake. My image of him against the Yankees is that 4 game series where he singlehandedly destroyed them in Sept 2016 when the Yanks had a shot at catching the Sox and the Sox swept them 4 in a row knocking them out. The Yankees couldn't get Hanley out and his HR in the last of the 9th against Betances was unforgettable. Is it an image of mine that Hanley hit the Yankees well or did he in fact hit the Yankees well? I think he did, but I could be mistaken there, too. I do know that he was awesome in last year's ALDS. In the 2016 ALDS, outside of the Kluber game (when the Sox were shut out on 3 hits), Ramirez batted .375 with with 2 doubles and 2 rbis in 8 at bats. He also produced 29% of the team's RBIs.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 28, 2018 10:19:12 GMT -5
Looking at the lineup the past couple of days, not having Hanley around is not a good thing.
Hanley is no star at this point, but he's better than what they're trotting out there when there's an injury.
The loss of Hanley is thinning out their offensive depth.
I totally get WHY losing Hanley for 2019 is a good thing, but players need days off and if there are any injuries to guys like Betts/JBJ/Benintendi/JDM/Moreland, Hanley's bat will be missed.
I still think as a healthy Hanley he's a better bat than the current line he's sporting and I wouldn't be surprised to see him have himself a nice year with whoever picks him, whether it's the Astros, the Indians, the Angels, or gulp, the Yankees - and it would be just like Cashman to make a move like that! And it could most definitely bite the Sox in the butt.
Meanwhile this means more Nunez, more Holt, more Swihart in spots he shouldn't really be at (he should get catching starts!).
The depth is thin and there are no bats in AAA you would want to call up to take Hanley's bat.
I think the Sox now have very little margin for error (or injury) at this point and I'm afraid if an injury happens, it will impact the Sox in the standings.
I really think the Sox should have hung onto Hanley and if Cora wanted to sit him on the bench and make him the 10th player of the lineup, then fine, and if he revolted or pouted or whatever, then DFA him. I have trouble believing that Nunez, who can only play 3b is more valuable to keep around or that JBJ couldn't use some time in AAA to get his offensive game together.
Maybe the beat guys are right and this is all about avoiding the option and making sure there are no grievances for the union. If so, I get it but I don't see anyway this helps this year's team at all.
Unless the Sox get a RH bat off the bench that can be a threat to be an .750 - .800 OPS guy with pop (and that would march them closer to the 237 limit as they also need relief help) or cost them prospects they don't have an overabundance of.
I'm afraid the Sox will continue to trot out sub-par lineups that are top heavy but come with 3 or 4 weak spot when injuries and rest needed and it will impact them in the standings. In a way, it reminds me of the Sox dumping Bernie Carbo in 1978 and him not being there when the Sox started suffering injuries and lacked depth as they were in a two team race with another superteam. At this point, every little thing matters when it comes to building up your roster for this season. I think the 2018 Red Sox are toward the apex of what they're trying to be and it's a very slippery slope going forward - 2018 is the time to maximize what they got and try to win it all - the loss of Hanley doesn't help this year's team.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on May 28, 2018 10:32:40 GMT -5
He's 35 with multiple shoulder surgeries and the lowest baseball IQ in the majors (doesn't knew how to train or make adjustments) and has been OPSing .730 for a season and a 1/3. I read recently that he has one of the worst launch angles in MLB and he can't hit high velocity fastballs. He's done...Il est fini. His horrible contract is gone with him and we should be celebrating his departure.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 28, 2018 12:12:31 GMT -5
He's 35 with multiple shoulder surgeries and the lowest baseball IQ in the majors (doesn't knew how to train or make adjustments) and has been OPSing .730 for a season and a 1/3. I read recently that he has one of the worst launch angles in MLB and he can't hit high velocity fastballs. He's done...Il est fini. His horrible contract is gone with him and we should be celebrating his departure. I understand you can't stand Hanley. You've made that perfectly clear. Take a look at the bottom 4 of our lineup today. You can tell me that Hanley is no better than Nunez, JBJ, etc while I'll disagree. I don't put much stock into his stats when he had bad shoulders. The guy had a good month this year and a terrible month this year. I need more of a healthy sample size to know for sure that he isn't better than what they already have on the bench. I don't think that's unreasonable. But if you enjoy that bottom 4 of our lineup and think Hanley can't be an improvement upon Brock Holt playing RF or Blake Swihart in LF or 1b or Nunez getting some of those ABs, that's fine. Your opinion. Agree to disagree.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 28, 2018 13:14:35 GMT -5
He's 35 with multiple shoulder surgeries and the lowest baseball IQ in the majors (doesn't knew how to train or make adjustments) and has been OPSing .730 for a season and a 1/3. I read recently that he has one of the worst launch angles in MLB and he can't hit high velocity fastballs. He's done...Il est fini. His horrible contract is gone with him and we should be celebrating his departure. Yet he was their best hitter in October last year and has a long history of October hitting. If our first baseman or DH sucks at the plate this October then many of us will wonder why Hanley wasn’t here. But time will tell.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 28, 2018 14:13:52 GMT -5
I stand corrected. He was mediocre in the 2016 ALDS, which left him their 3rd best hitter behind Benintendi and Holt. My image/memory of him that series was coming thru with an RBI hit when Francona intentionally walked Ortiz in his last plate appearance in the 3rd game and the Sox were at that point fighting for their playoff lives. I must have assumed he played better than he did. My mistake. My image of him against the Yankees is that 4 game series where he singlehandedly destroyed them in Sept 2016 when the Yanks had a shot at catching the Sox and the Sox swept them 4 in a row knocking them out. The Yankees couldn't get Hanley out and his HR in the last of the 9th against Betances was unforgettable. Is it an image of mine that Hanley hit the Yankees well or did he in fact hit the Yankees well? I think he did, but I could be mistaken there, too. I do know that he was awesome in last year's ALDS. In the 2016 ALDS, outside of the Kluber game (when the Sox were shut out on 3 hits), Ramirez batted .375 with with 2 doubles and 2 rbis in 8 at bats. He also produced 29% of the team's RBIs.
He had one good game, where he was 2 for 4 with two doubles, then 0 for 4 and 1 for 4 with a single.
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Post by soxfando on May 28, 2018 15:03:42 GMT -5
In the 2016 ALDS, outside of the Kluber game (when the Sox were shut out on 3 hits), Ramirez batted .375 with with 2 doubles and 2 rbis in 8 at bats. He also produced 29% of the team's RBIs.
He had one good game, where he was 2 for 4 with two doubles, then 0 for 4 and 1 for 4 with a single. *1 for 4 with a 2-out rbi single in the 8th inning off Indian's closer Cody Allen to bring the Sox within 1 run, also advancing a runner to second base.
Papi also went 0 for 4 against Kluber.
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Post by rjp313jr on May 29, 2018 18:28:33 GMT -5
Hey all, first time poster. For some reason Hanley getting DFA'd reminds me of the scene in Moneyball where Billy Beane walks into Art Howe's office and says "You're not playing Carlos Pena at first tonight...I traded him to Detroit." Is it just me or does it feel like there's some internal thing going on that we won't find out about until 10 years down the road, like there's a Hanley fan club in the front office and a Swihart fan club and the two sides spend all day arguing about who should play and shooting spit balls at each other (or some other grown up thing). It's not so much the Hanley DFA that makes me think this but more of the reaction to Swihart, a guy who was drafted by the organization as a catcher in 2011, catching two professional innings the other day and the organization acting like it's the first time anyone has seen him play the position. Am I the only one who thinks there might be a little more to this than just the 2019 option? I like the theory but am not sure. Thank you for posting - keep them coming
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on May 31, 2018 19:02:25 GMT -5
Hanley released. No one a taker in a trade Not even for a million or 2
The vesting option is dead. Even if he gets the PAs.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 31, 2018 19:13:53 GMT -5
Hanley released. No one a taker in a trade Not even for a million of 2 The vesting option is dead. Even if he gets the PAs. I wouldn't think anybody would be surprised that he'll be released and that no trade would happen. Somebody will get good value for minimum wage, possibly a contender.
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Post by ghostofrussgibson on May 31, 2018 20:13:36 GMT -5
Can't say I'm surprised. Sox eat all the $$$ while another team picks him up for chump change to see what he has left. Question: If you're Ramirez and you have multiple offers... do you sign where you're gonna play most every day on a mediocre club - or - do you sign with a top contender and sit the bench a good bit? What would you do?
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danr
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Post by danr on May 31, 2018 23:07:47 GMT -5
Can't say I'm surprised. Sox eat all the $$$ while another team picks him up for chump change to see what he has left. Question: If you're Ramirez and you have multiple offers... do you sign where you're gonna play most every day on a mediocre club - or - do you sign with a top contender and sit the bench a good bit? What would you do? I would choose the opportunity to play every day with the hope that it would yield another good contract next year. However, Hanley might make the other choice in hopes of playing against the Sox in the post season. That is just a guess on my part and maybe not fair.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jun 1, 2018 8:40:47 GMT -5
Given his recent history and the market for DH types, Hanley will have to take whatever he can get. I’m a fan of the guy but it’s hard to see it any other way.
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Post by jimed14 on Jun 1, 2018 8:48:23 GMT -5
Given his recent history and the market for DH types, Hanley will have to take whatever he can get. I’m a fan of the guy but it’s hard to see it any other way. The money wouldn't matter at all since he's getting paid the same no matter which team is paying him. If there's more than one team, I'd guess he'd go to the team that could give him more playing time.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Jun 22, 2018 16:58:34 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2018 17:04:50 GMT -5
Why a federal investigation for PEDs? Is it not PEDs? What else could it be?
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jun 22, 2018 17:08:40 GMT -5
Just to nip this in the bud, let's steer clear of speculation and rumors beyond the limited reporting so far.
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Post by Addam603 on Jun 22, 2018 17:08:46 GMT -5
And the plot thickens...
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Jun 22, 2018 17:16:31 GMT -5
so that option wasn't going to be reached no matter what huh?
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Post by 180054giant on Jun 22, 2018 17:24:44 GMT -5
Why a federal investigation for PEDs? Is it not PEDs? What else could it be? from the info we have, it could be anything Highly doubt PEDd though, at least the PE part
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Jun 22, 2018 17:33:37 GMT -5
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