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Jul 27, 2018 16:09:11 GMT -5
Post by bruinsfan94 on Jul 27, 2018 16:09:11 GMT -5
What if Dealin' Dave decides to go all in, what do you think the Red Sox could/would aim for in a deal that centers around 2 or 3 of Groome, Chavis, Mata, Houck and maybe two or three lesser guys eg Travis, Ockamey,Marco Hernandez, Chatham, Dalbac or Brennen. So a trade Idea could be Chavis, Groome. Ockamey, Chatham and Dalbac. What kind of player could we get back? I think I would try to build the system around guys like Mata, Houck, Casas and hopefully lower ranked ones like Diaz, flores and the class of 2018.
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Jul 27, 2018 16:56:42 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Jul 27, 2018 16:56:42 GMT -5
Scherzer for Porcello, Chavis, Houck, and whoever else it takes. Washington might be in for a full-blown rebuild, especially if Harper leaves. I'm sure Dombrowski would be comfortable getting Scherzer since he had him in Detroit. He would also be Sale insurance and we wouldn't be totally screwed with the salary cap (or whatever the official name is for the unofficial salary cap) next year, especially if the plan is to let Kimbrel walk. If we're going to blow past the $237M salary cap this year, let's do it in style. I do t see the Nats blowing it up, and I’m almost certain the Sox don’t have the minor league talent to make a Scherzer deal, but if they did move Porcello, it wouldn’t kill them salary-wise. Scherzer has a lot of deferred money and he’s essentially a $25M AAV player. I’d support a trade for Mad Max.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:01:50 GMT -5
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 27, 2018 17:01:50 GMT -5
For me all in just means blowing by the 237 mark and getting a guy for 2B like Dozier or Cabrera, along with a reliever. No reason to destroy the system.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:18:00 GMT -5
Post by bruinsfan94 on Jul 27, 2018 17:18:00 GMT -5
Dozier would be nice and shouldn't cost one of our better prospects. Any ideas what it would take? How about Chatham, Travis and Brannen ?
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Jul 27, 2018 17:18:26 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 27, 2018 17:18:26 GMT -5
For me all in just means blowing by the 237 mark and getting a guy for 2B like Dozier or Cabrera, along with a reliever. No reason to destroy the system. I thought the Sox were already over the 237 mark, but apparently not. If you trade Nunez in the Dozier deal, you might be able to stay under.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:29:13 GMT -5
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 27, 2018 17:29:13 GMT -5
For me all in just means blowing by the 237 mark and getting a guy for 2B like Dozier or Cabrera, along with a reliever. No reason to destroy the system. I thought the Sox were already over the 237 mark, but apparently not. If you trade Nunez in the Dozier deal, you might be able to stay under. That's my whole point though, your not all in if you keep worrying about the 237 million line. You can get a 2B and a reliever and stay under most likely. If you do you'll pay a crab more in prospect costs. Given this team stop worrying about the 237 million line.
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Jul 27, 2018 17:58:39 GMT -5
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 27, 2018 17:58:39 GMT -5
We've already got 3 pages dedicated to Dozier in another thread. Someone asks you to get creative and you copy and paste? Common man, think outside the box a little. Get in the spirit of the question and pick a name we haven't been talking/reading about for the last 3 weeks. I mean, what do you expect? There's already been 2 names that been traded that could play second base for the Sox that have already moved in Escobar and Cabrera. If the Sox are going to get a guy for second base, Dozier and maybe Kinsler are probably the only two names you're going to get. Pedrioa is coming back next year. All you need is a free rental type. The only question to me is if the Sox feel it's that big of a need to go get another second baseman (imo it is a big need). The second part is that if the Sox have a lot of faith in Pedrioa, they might ride it out (that's also risky).
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Jul 27, 2018 17:59:57 GMT -5
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 27, 2018 17:59:57 GMT -5
We've already got 3 pages dedicated to Dozier in another thread. Someone asks you to get creative and you copy and paste? Common man, think outside the box a little. Get in the spirit of the question and pick a name we haven't been talking/reading about for the last 3 weeks. No offense but there is a zero percent chance DD does anything like that. He has a very long history of trying to sell high on guys. Not when there stock is at the lowest point. I don't want to make up stuff that litterally will never happen. You want a crazy very unlikely, but has a very small chance of happening name, Whit Merrifield.
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Jul 27, 2018 21:23:20 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Jul 27, 2018 21:23:20 GMT -5
I do t see the Nats blowing it up, and I’m almost certain the Sox don’t have the minor league talent to make a Scherzer deal, but if they did move Porcello, it wouldn’t kill them salary-wise. Scherzer has a lot of deferred money and he’s essentially a $25M AAV player. I’d support a trade for Mad Max. I don't follow the Nationals, you probably know more about them than I do. As a team with a massive payroll this year and a .500 record, they just seem like a possibility. It would be something to have the two all-star game starters on the same team. Tbh, while there are some pretty wild trades proposed on here, and this one might be seen that way, it’s actually pretty sensible. The Nats are going to lose Harper almost assuredly and they may not compete as well next year because Atl and Philly look primed to go on runs. At best, the Nats are in a dogfight in that division the next few years, but they do have Soto, Victor Robles (who looks to take Harper’s spot), Trea Turner, Anthony Rendon...basically a terrific young core. They could trade Scherzer and free up salary to try to extend some of those young guys and maybe even re-sign Harper, and fill in some holes while they move their window back a year or two. Kind of a retool rather than rebuild. And they have the pieces to do so, plus trade chips in Gonzalez and Herrera beyond Scherzer who could put them in a great spot for next year/2020 if they wanted to go the retool route and try to add some young near MLB-ready talent. Plus, if they got Porcello back on a 1-year deal, they could certainly compete next year if their luck broke good instead of bad as it has this year, since he’s still probably a 3-WAR pitcher who eats innings. It’s actually a really imaginative and theoretically workable trade. And you’re right, it gives the Sox another legitimate ace who’s on a reasonable deal for several more years, and whose deferred contract makes him kind of a bargain, at least until he starts declining. But they get him while he’s still at his peak powers, while the Nats get out from under the “bad” end of the deal. I’d actually probably do this deal if I’m the Sox, Porcello/Groome/Chavis/Hernandez or Mata/Shawaryn, along those lines. Might have to add Lakins or Buttrey.
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Jul 28, 2018 0:19:43 GMT -5
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 28, 2018 0:19:43 GMT -5
Telson how is that Scherzer trade sensible? You like it because the cost is very low. If the Nationals put him on the market right now they would get a ton. In a market with no good starters he's an elite guy. The Nationals have a ton of money, they could paydown some of his salary to increase the trade package. He's the type of guy I think the Yankees are waiting for, a true difference maker. He'll cost closer to a Sale package than that proposed package.
At the sametime why would they? You can't easily replace a stud like Scherzer and like you said that team is ready now. Also with Harpers down year the chances he stays are massive. Nevermind the Nationals were always going to be bidders, they are a large market team that gives out record setting deals. If there's no chance he comes back they would trade Harper, yet there has been nothing on that front.
I agree if I was them I trade off my too be free agents besides Harper, but I keep everyone I need for next year.
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Jul 28, 2018 2:20:08 GMT -5
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Post by dmaineah on Jul 28, 2018 2:20:08 GMT -5
All in means getting Carpenter from St. Louis
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Post by costpet on Jul 28, 2018 7:26:57 GMT -5
I wonder what it would take to get Scooter G. from Cincy. I have no faith that Pety will ever play again. That would be a better deal than from some relief pitcher.
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Jul 28, 2018 8:23:34 GMT -5
Post by sgfeer on Jul 28, 2018 8:23:34 GMT -5
Unfortunately, if Max was being traded, the Yankees would be there with young players and prospects the Sox couldn't match. Rizzo could name his price from any team. Two separate trades of Harper and Max, and they would be just like the Braves and Phillies with young talent, and also have some money freed up. Does he have the cohones to do that? Would make for a fun deadline
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Jul 28, 2018 10:42:10 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Jul 28, 2018 10:42:10 GMT -5
Telson how is that Scherzer trade sensible? You like it because the cost is very low. If the Nationals put him on the market right now they would get a ton. In a market with no good starters he's an elite guy. The Nationals have a ton of money, they could paydown some of his salary to increase the trade package. He's the type of guy I think the Yankees are waiting for, a true difference maker. He'll cost closer to a Sale package than that proposed package. At the sametime why would they? You can't easily replace a stud like Scherzer and like you said that team is ready now. Also with Harpers down year the chances he stays are massive. Nevermind the Nationals were always going to be bidders, they are a large market team that gives out record setting deals. If there's no chance he comes back they would trade Harper, yet there has been nothing on that front. I agree if I was them I trade off my too be free agents besides Harper, but I keep everyone I need for next year. Just because it makes sense doesn’t mean it will happen. I outlined why it makes sense for the Nats; they’ve been awful this year but they have Soto, and Robles on the verge. Harper is, in all liklihood, gone. I just disagree with you on that one. He’s almost assuredly not taking a QO, and somebody will pay him in line with estimates, probably on the low end but still a ton of money. Strasburg should be back, but I believe they also lose Gonzalez. They probably WILL hang on to Scherzer, because I’m guessing they figure they can compete next year. My point is that they’re going to do so with some patchwork, and I’m not convinced that’s sufficient. Scherzer is 34, meaning he’s due for some decline pretty soon. He’s got a relatively low-mileage arm, so maybe he hangs on for a bit. In getting Porcello back, the Nats still could contend next year (they’d lose about 3 WAR), but they’re out from under the *likely* wrong side of an expensive deal. With their core that allows them substantial flexibility to maximize their current upcoming core players, and extend guys like Rendon and Turner. Again, I highly doubt they would do it because of the negative perception of fans and players, but it would actually probably be a smart move for them. Also, for all those claiming NY would jump in, I’m sure they’d try. But they have no pitcher equivalent to Porcello to offer, and they’re not giving up anyone like Torres; Andújar is of roughly equivalent 1:1 value per fangraphs “trade values,” but I’m not sure either team would want to do that. Scherzer isn’t Sale: his contract is far more expensive and for several more years. That hurts his trade value. It’s still high, but it limits his market and the Nats’ market/expectations limits what they can accept in return. Sure, if NY wanted to beat the Sox at any cost they could...but they’re not that fiscally irresponsible. Maybe Sonny Gray (who’s a reclamation project now), Andújar (leaves a 3b hole for NY and forces them to trade even more prospect capital for a 3b), and Cessa? In the end it’s just a thought experiment. I was pretty clear early on that I don’t see it happening.
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Jul 28, 2018 10:44:18 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Jul 28, 2018 10:44:18 GMT -5
I wonder what it would take to get Scooter G. from Cincy. I have no faith that Pety will ever play again. That would be a better deal than from some relief pitcher. Gennett would be an awesome get.
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Jul 28, 2018 12:00:28 GMT -5
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Post by danredhawk on Jul 28, 2018 12:00:28 GMT -5
If they're just going to blow out the farm system then I definitely think the most impactful post-season piece they could add would be another #1 starter. The Mets (for whatever Met reason) seem more likely to sell than the Nats.
Gennett would be a great pick-up, but the Reds seem vocal about having onto him moving forward.
The more realistic impact options in my mind would be trading for Merrifield or (what I'd really like to see) moving Swihart/Vazquez plus for JT Realmuto. Or both if we are ALL in...
Then, since we are all in I'd try to get Iglesias from Cincinnati to shore up the bullpen...
While Realmuto is about to get expensive for Miami, both he and WM would be cheap by Sox standards and are controllable for a while. Which would free up money for the Boston resigns and give the team time to reload the farm...
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Jul 28, 2018 16:03:15 GMT -5
Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 28, 2018 16:03:15 GMT -5
Telson how is that Scherzer trade sensible? You like it because the cost is very low. If the Nationals put him on the market right now they would get a ton. In a market with no good starters he's an elite guy. The Nationals have a ton of money, they could paydown some of his salary to increase the trade package. He's the type of guy I think the Yankees are waiting for, a true difference maker. He'll cost closer to a Sale package than that proposed package. At the sametime why would they? You can't easily replace a stud like Scherzer and like you said that team is ready now. Also with Harpers down year the chances he stays are massive. Nevermind the Nationals were always going to be bidders, they are a large market team that gives out record setting deals. If there's no chance he comes back they would trade Harper, yet there has been nothing on that front. I agree if I was them I trade off my too be free agents besides Harper, but I keep everyone I need for next year. Just because it makes sense doesn’t mean it will happen. I outlined why it makes sense for the Nats; they’ve been awful this year but they have Soto, and Robles on the verge. Harper is, in all liklihood, gone. I just disagree with you on that one. He’s almost assuredly not taking a QO, and somebody will pay him in line with estimates, probably on the low end but still a ton of money. Strasburg should be back, but I believe they also lose Gonzalez. They probably WILL hang on to Scherzer, because I’m guessing they figure they can compete next year. My point is that they’re going to do so with some patchwork, and I’m not convinced that’s sufficient. Scherzer is 34, meaning he’s due for some decline pretty soon. He’s got a relatively low-mileage arm, so maybe he hangs on for a bit. In getting Porcello back, the Nats still could contend next year (they’d lose about 3 WAR), but they’re out from under the *likely* wrong side of an expensive deal. With their core that allows them substantial flexibility to maximize their current upcoming core players, and extend guys like Rendon and Turner. Again, I highly doubt they would do it because of the negative perception of fans and players, but it would actually probably be a smart move for them. Also, for all those claiming NY would jump in, I’m sure they’d try. But they have no pitcher equivalent to Porcello to offer, and they’re not giving up anyone like Torres; Andújar is of roughly equivalent 1:1 value per fangraphs “trade values,” but I’m not sure either team would want to do that. Scherzer isn’t Sale: his contract is far more expensive and for several more years. That hurts his trade value. It’s still high, but it limits his market and the Nats’ market/expectations limits what they can accept in return. Sure, if NY wanted to beat the Sox at any cost they could...but they’re not that fiscally irresponsible. Maybe Sonny Gray (who’s a reclamation project now), Andújar (leaves a 3b hole for NY and forces them to trade even more prospect capital for a 3b), and Cessa? In the end it’s just a thought experiment. I was pretty clear early on that I don’t see it happening. They have been crappy because of injuries to Eaton, Murphy and Zimmerman it happens. Along with a Harper down year. Why is Harper gone if he gets a deal on the low end? That team has made a bunch of trades to win now over the last few years. It really makes no sense to blow it up and let Harper walk, like none at all. I think you can make a better argument for trading Robles in the offseason for another TOR starter, then blowing it up. Then add a guy like Dozier at 2B.
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Jul 28, 2018 20:17:52 GMT -5
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Post by telson13 on Jul 28, 2018 20:17:52 GMT -5
Just because it makes sense doesn’t mean it will happen. I outlined why it makes sense for the Nats; they’ve been awful this year but they have Soto, and Robles on the verge. Harper is, in all liklihood, gone. I just disagree with you on that one. He’s almost assuredly not taking a QO, and somebody will pay him in line with estimates, probably on the low end but still a ton of money. Strasburg should be back, but I believe they also lose Gonzalez. They probably WILL hang on to Scherzer, because I’m guessing they figure they can compete next year. My point is that they’re going to do so with some patchwork, and I’m not convinced that’s sufficient. Scherzer is 34, meaning he’s due for some decline pretty soon. He’s got a relatively low-mileage arm, so maybe he hangs on for a bit. In getting Porcello back, the Nats still could contend next year (they’d lose about 3 WAR), but they’re out from under the *likely* wrong side of an expensive deal. With their core that allows them substantial flexibility to maximize their current upcoming core players, and extend guys like Rendon and Turner. Again, I highly doubt they would do it because of the negative perception of fans and players, but it would actually probably be a smart move for them. Also, for all those claiming NY would jump in, I’m sure they’d try. But they have no pitcher equivalent to Porcello to offer, and they’re not giving up anyone like Torres; Andújar is of roughly equivalent 1:1 value per fangraphs “trade values,” but I’m not sure either team would want to do that. Scherzer isn’t Sale: his contract is far more expensive and for several more years. That hurts his trade value. It’s still high, but it limits his market and the Nats’ market/expectations limits what they can accept in return. Sure, if NY wanted to beat the Sox at any cost they could...but they’re not that fiscally irresponsible. Maybe Sonny Gray (who’s a reclamation project now), Andújar (leaves a 3b hole for NY and forces them to trade even more prospect capital for a 3b), and Cessa? In the end it’s just a thought experiment. I was pretty clear early on that I don’t see it happening. They have been crappy because of injuries to Eaton, Murphy and Zimmerman it happens. Along with a Harper down year. Why is Harper gone if he gets a deal on the low end? That team has made a bunch of trades to win now over the last few years. It really makes no sense to blow it up and let Harper walk, like none at all. I think you can make a better argument for trading Robles in the offseason for another TOR starter, then blowing it up. Then add a guy like Dozier at 2B. I’m not talking about blowing it up. Harper’s been mostly a 3-5 WAR player with one huge year. You’re right that the Nats have $, and they may opt to sign him whatever the cost. Certainly this year makes that more feasible, because his cost has probably dropped considerably. What I’m talking about is retooling along the lines of what NY did in 2016. Robles is projected as a 3-4 WAR player in the relative near-term. So they could save $25-30M a year by promoting him and letting Harper go, and get fairly similar production most years. Trading Scherzer would then give them effectively $50-55M annually to play with (we’ll see what happens with Gonzalez) and maybe try to retool and extend their younger players on longer-term deals to keep their core intact. If they let Harper go and had Porcello instead of Scherzer next year, with Robles up, they might only have a 3-5 WAR deficit to make up. They could then upgrade other spots (bullpen, for example) and stay nearly as competitive next year and probably moreso down the road with financial flexibility and an improved minor league system.
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