|
Post by iakovos11 on Oct 10, 2018 13:08:22 GMT -5
Price is not going to the bullpen
|
|
|
Post by tnyankee556 on Oct 10, 2018 14:37:02 GMT -5
I'm not so sure the Sox management will want to be paying Price 30 mil a year for 4 more years just to be a reliever. Even a closer isn't worth that. 6
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Oct 10, 2018 14:45:40 GMT -5
I'm not so sure the Sox management will want to be paying Price 30 mil a year for 4 more years just to be a reliever. Even a closer isn't worth that. 6 Doesn't really matter what he is doing because they'll be paying him anyway. He's fine as a starter most of the time.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 12, 2018 8:38:50 GMT -5
I'm not so sure the Sox management will want to be paying Price 30 mil a year for 4 more years just to be a reliever. Even a closer isn't worth that. 6 Doesn't really matter what he is doing because they'll be paying him anyway. He's fine as a starter most of the time. Full circle makes him a catcher in 2019. That makes sense now.
|
|
|
Post by thelavarnwayguy on Oct 13, 2018 0:02:24 GMT -5
I think Vasquez should be the starter and Swihart the back up and I'd give both a lot of PT. Leon was a nobody until he started with the Redsox wasn't he? I think the pitchers just like him and he has their back but he probably is AAA depth to me overall. Except some other team probably would sign him. It seems like catchers get lionized sometimes when they are in actuality not that good. I'd let Vasquez and Swihart compete for the job and go with the right catcher for each situation. Most of that depends on the pitcher.
In today's game with all the split finger fastballs and so many off speed pitches and curveballs in the dirt the ability to block the plate is so freaking important. You can't have your catcher dictating what you can throw, because he can't block the plate if you throw it. That is a killer. I'm not convinced Swihart inspires confidence in that regard but I bet if he had 400 AB he probably would hit a whole lot better than any of our other catchers.
I'm ok with the status quo overall because catchers do get hurt and often are asked to play injured. Swihart can be used elsewhere and as a pinch runner and he's still relatively cheap. I sense that his athleticism gives him a greater growth potential than a lot of guys we could retain in his position. He probably still hasn't peaked yet.
|
|
|
Post by jiant2520 on Oct 14, 2018 16:45:44 GMT -5
I am not a fan of Swihart as the starting catcher, as most here seem to want.
I like Leon behind the plate right now. I am ok with Vazquez. I wish I saw more of Swihart over the past few years... I am not convinced he will be a #1 catcher. We have not even used him, but a moment in the post season....
|
|
|
Post by michael on Oct 14, 2018 17:07:16 GMT -5
OK I'm hoping that Leon has a great post season and builds value. Many years ago I reported the Sheasdac Index thru ST. This not a new concept. Let the Sandysdac begin.
|
|
|
Post by jiant2520 on Oct 21, 2018 12:54:45 GMT -5
Would love Realmuto....
|
|
|
Post by jiant2520 on Oct 21, 2018 12:55:10 GMT -5
As would most others as well....
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 24, 2018 5:25:41 GMT -5
I'm not one that usually jumps on the Yankees will get everyone train wreck but, Realmuto is exactly what they need in one of the areas they need to do something drastic with.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Oct 24, 2018 7:53:36 GMT -5
Yankees won't pull that trigger having Sanchez and Romine.
Realmuto would lengthen Sox lineup nicely.
Our .268 team average is so dependant on 2 guys having had career years. Can't expect that again.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Oct 24, 2018 10:20:36 GMT -5
Yankees won't pull that trigger having Sanchez and Romine. Realmuto would lengthen Sox lineup nicely. Our .268 team average is so dependant on 2 guys having had career years. Can't expect that again. Probably not, but they led the majors in batting average by 9 points. The Red Sox were farther ahead of Cleveland (.259) than Cleveland was above the median. There's a lot of room to regress and still be very good. And it's not crazy to think regression by Betts and Martinez will be essentially made up by natural improvements by Devers, and at second base and catcher. Not to say that Realmuto is a bad idea or anything, obviously. I just don't see the pieces to get him nor the need to overpay.
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,912
|
Post by ericmvan on Oct 25, 2018 0:15:15 GMT -5
It's worth breaking down what their options are for 2019, if and when everyone is healthy:
-- Resign Pearce and trade Swihart -- Resign Pearce and trade Vazquez
-- Resign Pearce and trade Leon -- Keep three catchers, resign Pearce, and trade Nunez -- Keep three catchers, obtain a full-time 1B (who could be Pearce), and trade Moreland. -- Keep three catchers and stand pat. JDM or Nunez is Moreland's platoon partner, with the other at DH.
Note that any trade can either be an off-season trade or a ST trade. And that if you re-sign Pearce and wait until ST, then you are in a position of trading any one of 5 guys -- or keeping them all if any of the 14 guys that you have for 13 spots (8 of which are certain) get hurt.
I'm not a big fan of getting a new 1B to replace both Moreland and Pearce. Pearce would be a perfectly solid choice as a full-time guy, supplemented by New Brock. If you eliminate that option, it simplifies things a lot.
What I think you need to do is re-sign Pearce, and then have trade talks for all three catchers, Nunez, and Moreland, and then decide what to do.
You have five best trades on the table, plus a sense of which trades might be available if you wait until ST. In each of the five cases, you know how good you think the team will be and what kind of return you're getting. You also have an estimate of the loss (or gain) in trade value of waiting until ST (obviously much tougher), plus the odds that you'll be glad that you kept an extra body.
I think the best we can do now is try to estimate actual values and trade values for all five guys, and how that might affect the decision. The actual value is the known track record plus any sense you have of the player's future. The trade value is also half objective and half subjective -- the objective part is the MLB need for a player of that type, and the subjective part is what you think GMs are thinking when they try to estimate actual value.
So the short version is that you want to trade the guy that you think you have a better sense of (going forward) than the average GM! The guy that you think is overrated by the GM consensus. The guys you want to keep are underrated by the GM consensus. And of course the market does enter into it, but that only helps determine the GM desire.
Personally, I don't have an opinion, although I suspect that re-signing Pearce and waiting until ST may be the best option. I think that if they do trade a catcher in the winter, it had better be (and probably will be), a "wow, that got that for so-and-so!" trade.
|
|
gerry
Veteran
Enter your message here...
Posts: 1,656
|
Post by gerry on Oct 25, 2018 2:22:31 GMT -5
OK, still flying from Game 2 and some good wine. Let me understand this.The Sox will have little clarity about which FA’s to trade or keep for 2019 within the short signing window following the WS. If I understand your logic it is best to sign every Sox FA who is likely to either stick or be good trade candidates, and figure it out in february, after injuries and issues are resolved. This would also apply, I suppose, to Arbitration when that deadline closes. And all this would help determine which, if any FA’s on the market would be good fits. Right? With just 4 months to ST, this maximizes options to put the best team on the field. This also assumes the Sox are already the best TEAM on the field, and that to maintain the chemistry of this TEAM, most players will be back.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 25, 2018 5:32:57 GMT -5
Yankees won't pull that trigger having Sanchez and Romine. Realmuto would lengthen Sox lineup nicely. Our .268 team average is so dependant on 2 guys having had career years. Can't expect that again. Romine has no bat or arm but is otherwise a fine defensive catcher. Sanchez has issues plus he has no glove and seems to be at odds with the pitching staff quite often. He also strikes out a ton. With Didi out for the year and issues with first base and a somewhat crowded outfield, the likelihood of Sanchez finding DH time seems small. The Yankees biggest issue will be starting pitching. They have a long way to go to catch up with the Sox and will need to make significant moves to do so. They have the money and they have the prospects. I just don't see the Sox likely to want to compete for Realmuto. There are also several other teams likely to be competitive with a need at catcher, the Dodgers for example.
|
|
|
Post by sarasoxer on Oct 25, 2018 8:33:21 GMT -5
Yankees won't pull that trigger having Sanchez and Romine. Realmuto would lengthen Sox lineup nicely. Our .268 team average is so dependant on 2 guys having had career years. Can't expect that again. Romine has no bat or arm but is otherwise a fine defensive catcher. Sanchez has issues plus he has no glove and seems to be at odds with the pitching staff quite often. He also strikes out a ton. With Didi out for the year and issues with first base and a somewhat crowded outfield, the likelihood of Sanchez finding DH time seems small. The Yankees biggest issue will be starting pitching. They have a long way to go to catch up with the Sox and will need to make significant moves to do so. They have the money and they have the prospects. I just don't see the Sox likely to want to compete for Realmuto. There are also several other teams likely to be competitive with a need at catcher, the Dodgers for example. I don't see the Sox in on Realmuto either for the reasons you state, but he would be an immense help at a position of need offensively. Romine is a very solid catcher, hits better and with more power than any of our catchers, and has a decent arm. When he came into pitch in the 'laugher', he hit 91 on the gun. I believe he has a good "pop" as well. The Yankees won't go after a catcher but I suspect another hitter, (Machado is their kind of guy), a starter or two (Corbin plus) and perhaps even add to the stellar pen. They have the money, (penalties will be minimal--believe they have 160M on the books for 2019) and never traded much away from their minors last year. They will be tough.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 25, 2018 10:10:41 GMT -5
Romine has a career 21% caught stealing ratio. MLB average is 28%. Sanchez is 36%.
In a surprising stat to me, Sanchez CERA is considerably less than Romine, career 3.61 vs 4.12, same staff.
|
|
|
Post by RedSoxStats on Oct 26, 2018 13:57:27 GMT -5
Not sure I understand the "Vazquez in the postseason" designation though.
|
|
|
Post by terriblehondo on Oct 28, 2018 12:48:06 GMT -5
Even with all the improvements Blake has made as a catcher this year. He was absolutely horrible behind the plate last night. That is not going to help him to earn a starting job in 2019. You could not even have him as a primary backup if that is how he is going to receive the ball. If I was him I would spend the whole off season with the Molina's or Varitek working on it because what he showed last night is never going to cut it.
|
|
|
Post by RedSoxStats on Oct 29, 2018 1:26:48 GMT -5
That is ridiculous, he hadn't played in a month and he was called on to catch an out of control Kimbrel to close out a World Series game. He does nothing but work with Varitek, who is his biggest champion in the organization and probably the reason he is still here. Swihart showing he was a good defensive catcher this year was one of the many bright spots.
|
|
|
Post by terriblehondo on Oct 29, 2018 14:52:20 GMT -5
That is ridiculous, he hadn't played in a month and he was called on to catch an out of control Kimbrel to close out a World Series game. He does nothing but work with Varitek, who is his biggest champion in the organization and probably the reason he is still here. Swihart showing he was a good defensive catcher this year was one of the many bright spots. So what you are saying is that a good defensive catcher would look like that receiving the ball. I say that at no point in time unless it was a knuckler or he was crossed up should a good catcher look like that. In fact I thought he was crossed up at first. But no he kept doing it. He needs more work. Has he improved a ton why yes he has does he still have a lot of work to do before he is a good defensive catcher yes he does. Because that was not the performance of a good defensive catcher. He has not played in a month but I am sure he has caught plenty of sessions in that month. If not then everyone with the Sox are idiots because coming into a high leverage situation after you had to pinch hit for the other catchers is exactly why he was on the roster and I was all for it. Catching a wild Kimbrel, wow like that has never happened before . Blake was horrible and that is the fact. Performances like that is why he did not win the starting job when him and Christian were battling to see who the catcher would be. I want him to be better because his bat is better than the other catchers. Here I will give you this maybe Blake had problems with velocity as most of his catching this year has been soft tossers. But no pitcher is going to want him behind the plate if he is going to receive the ball like that.
|
|
|
Post by libertine on Oct 29, 2018 18:44:56 GMT -5
I don't know what happened in game 4 but I watched Swihart when Vazquez was out and he caught many hard throwers, including Kimbrel, and didn't have a problem. Plus, if my memory isn't failing me, he threw out most of the runners who tried to steal.
I don't know which way the Sox will go with their catchers but if Swihart is dealt it will be because he brings the most in return and not because he is a "bad" catcher.
|
|
|
Post by greenmonster on Oct 30, 2018 10:09:55 GMT -5
When a pitcher is throwing 98mph and missing his spot by 4ft its pretty difficult for a catcher to "Look Good". They just have to stop it and keep it in front of them. Swihart did all he could do in that situation.
|
|
ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,912
|
Post by ericmvan on Oct 30, 2018 11:03:40 GMT -5
The more I think about this, the more it comes down to making a really solid trade for Swihart. It might be this winter, or it could be at some point in the season once everyone is healthy.
This can happen if:
1) Two or more teams in need of a catcher see him as a future first-division starter with All-Star upside. I think its' very likely that a number of teams will like him that much; it's less clear that two of them will have a need at the position.
2) DDo does an excellent assessment on prospects offered. We're not going to get offered an elite prospect, but you can get a guy at the next level who proves to be underrated, plus a guy at the next level down, ditto.
|
|
|
Post by libertine on Oct 30, 2018 11:59:55 GMT -5
I am completely underwhelmed by the prospect of having two catchers who are good behind the plate and are aspiring to find the Mendoza Line when at it. We can get a catcher like that any time we want, they are a dime a dozen.
|
|