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What to do with Chris Sale
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 16, 2018 6:27:05 GMT -5
Looking past 2019, is Sale really a good investment for a long term contract or do we walk away from him like we did with Beckett? The Sox extended Beckett twice and then traded him. They didn't walk away from him. The Sox should extend Sale, even though it could turn out bad in the end with the contract because of his durability concerns.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 16, 2018 10:53:23 GMT -5
(worked in the area; while Draconian on paper, HIPPA laws are almost never enforced) If you worked in the area, you'd know that it's HIPAA not HIPPA, no?
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Post by ghostofrussgibson on Dec 16, 2018 14:07:11 GMT -5
Sale is a rare talent. I'd try to sign him, even though his age means his production is likely to tail off toward the end of his next contract. Maybe he can become a John Smoltz and blow guys away as a closer in a few years. Less wear and tear on his arm due to fewer innings.
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Post by jiant2520 on Dec 16, 2018 14:40:39 GMT -5
I've said this in the beginning of the thread... I would not rule out a trade. Its all relevant to how the staff is pitching, but if DD decides that he cannot resign him, for whatever reason, I would be fine with a trade if it gets us a young controllable pitcher, reliever and a prospect.
I don't expect it, but I could understand it.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 16, 2018 15:35:03 GMT -5
I've said this in the beginning of the thread... I would not rule out a trade. Its all relevant to how the staff is pitching, but if DD decides that he cannot resign him, for whatever reason, I would be fine with a trade if it gets us a young controllable pitcher, reliever and a prospect. I don't expect it, but I could understand it. I couldn't understand it at all if they did it. They clearly could contend for another championship next season so they're not going to trade their best pitcher and get worse for 2019.
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Post by jiant2520 on Dec 16, 2018 18:08:05 GMT -5
I've said this in the beginning of the thread... I would not rule out a trade. Its all relevant to how the staff is pitching, but if DD decides that he cannot resign him, for whatever reason, I would be fine with a trade if it gets us a young controllable pitcher, reliever and a prospect. I don't expect it, but I could understand it. I couldn't understand it at all if they did it. They clearly could contend for another championship next season so they're not going to trade their best pitcher and get worse for 2019. Some might not, like you. Its fine. I can.
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Post by Guidas on Dec 16, 2018 19:53:25 GMT -5
Looking past 2019, is Sale really a good investment for a long term contract or do we walk away from him like we did with Beckett? The Sox extended Beckett twice and then traded him. They didn't walk away from him. The Sox should extend Sale, even though it could turn out bad in the end with the contract because of his durability concerns. I love Sale, but if his shoulder looks like slowly shredding gristle, I’d let him walk at the end of the deal. The middle ground here is, if his shoulder isn’t horrible, to give him 1-2 more years than anyone else in the market at same AAV, but tie the added time to innings pitched.
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Post by larrycook on Dec 16, 2018 23:03:10 GMT -5
Dombrowski has been pretty good about signing guys if he really wants them.
In the case of sale, I think wd need to see how 2019 plays out. If sale is healthy, takes the ball every fifth day and had the kind of year he is capable of, then Dombrowski should step up and pay him.
However, a repeat of this year with sale missing extended time and not looking “sale like” when he returns, or he runs out of gas in July or August, then maybe we let someone else back up the brinks truck for him.
As a plan b, in case we let sale walk, I still think that if we could get gray out of Colorado, he might be a reclamation project that could pay huge dividends if handled properly.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 17, 2018 10:36:08 GMT -5
I couldn't understand it at all if they did it. They clearly could contend for another championship next season so they're not going to trade their best pitcher and get worse for 2019. If Sale's issues are more severe than what an Advil will solve then a trade wouldn't be crazy and the hush-hush tone around what's going on with his arm makes me think there might be. As it is, he's only had one September in his entire career as a starter where he pitched the way you would expect him to (2014) so he has a pretty decent track record of running out of gas. If he now has some sort of larger issue, then him pitching well all season and into October is probably out of the question. That's not conducive to winning championships, so a trade that brought players over who can pitch into October could actually improve our odds of winning in 2019 rather than hurt it. If that's the worry, then they won't be getting nearly enough from him in a trade because other teams will know as well. Their best bet is still to hope for a good year from him and that they can manage the issue.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 17, 2018 11:07:18 GMT -5
Is there a doctor (sports) in the house? Can anyone shed light on Sale's issue?
To me it sounds like he has something inflammatory and possibly degenerative...(Sox maybe pacing him in 2019 to manage further degradation)....but that doesn't get us too far obviously. I understand that Sale may want to keep info at a minimum ..
But the Sox are generally non-communicative in injury situations....Chavis being another example. It is a mystery what his relatively long-standing wrist injury was and finally he had "surgery on his wrist"....not much info.
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 17, 2018 14:37:45 GMT -5
I don't see how a doctor could realistically shed any light here without having access to medical records - or at least some accurate and real medical information. To my knowledge, there's only speculation now. It's all guesswork.
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 17, 2018 15:03:20 GMT -5
Sale would never do this but the only way I would do anything with Sale is if they do a Wakefield, a year to year deal. Maybe start two years then go year to year. You know he would be an awesome closer. He could end up getting Chapman money. Just throwing hat out there. After seeing what he did to the Dodgers .
You can’t justify giving him 30 million a year or 25. It kills me to say but I rather get Betts and Xander tied up. If you look at the titles we won we went from Schill and Pedro , to Beckett, Lester and now really Price and Evoladi ,thank the lord we didn’t really need Sale. So my point is we move on the next one . it looks like Price figured it out to me. If you can handle the Yanks, Astros and Dodgers like that it is pretty impressive .
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 17, 2018 15:13:39 GMT -5
Chapman money? Unless his arm is in tatters, he could get Chapman money on an extension today. He wouldn't need to convert to closer and surrender 70% of his value to do that. Aroldis Chapman basically got Nathan Eovaldi's deal, plus a fifth year.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Dec 17, 2018 15:44:29 GMT -5
Sale would never do this but the only way I would do anything with Sale is if they do a Wakefield, a year to year deal. Maybe start two years then go year to year. You know he would be an awesome closer. He could end up getting Chapman money. Just throwing hat out there. After seeing what he did to the Dodgers . You can’t justify giving him 30 million a year or 25. It kills me to say but I rather get Betts and Xander tied up. If you look at the titles we won we went from Schill and Pedro , to Beckett, Lester and now really Price and Evoladi ,thank the lord we didn’t really need Sale. So my point is we move on the next one . it looks like Price figured it out to me. If you can handle the Yanks, Astros and Dodgers like that it is pretty impressive . I totally see it the same way as jrrusso. Few, if any, team can afford to have two 30-million dollar pitchers on their team, and believe me, if Sale wants that kind of money over staying with the Sox....he WILL get it. I love Chris Sale. I love everything about him, but we have placed ourselves in a bind where we have to make some hard choices, and in my opinion you go all out to sign those two 26-year olds (Mookie and Xander). Beni and Devers will be part of the discussion soon enough also. I wish we could keep this team totally together for the next 3 to 5 years, but it is not possible. We pushed all of our chips to the center of the table and won, but these decisions will need to be made rather soon. Two 30+ million pitchers or sign Betts and hopefully Bogie too? Sign the kids. (I guess they are not kids anymore)
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 17, 2018 17:02:17 GMT -5
I don't see how a doctor could realistically shed any light here without having access to medical records - or at least some accurate and real medical information. To my knowledge, there's only speculation now. It's all guesswork. Oh sure it's guesswork and speculation without more info, but it would interest me as to possibilities. It's spec too on what the Sox do with Sale going forward. If there is nothing 'concrete', on his malady, talk about re-signing him for x years, or giving him extra rest or putting him the pen is relatively baseless.... no foundation.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Aug 9, 2022 9:55:50 GMT -5
IMO, the Sox are facing a huge decision when it comes to Sale this offseason. He is entering the last year of his team-friendly contract and is due for an astronomical raise. History hasn't served too well when it's come to signing pitchers on the wrong side of 30, but not re-signing a certified ace is a tough call to make. If they happen to win the world series, I wouldn't be too upset if they quietly shopped him over the winter. What's everybody's thoughts on what to do with Sale? Hey Dombrowski, should've called me
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 9, 2022 15:14:21 GMT -5
Sale would never do this but the only way I would do anything with Sale is if they do a Wakefield, a year to year deal. Maybe start two years then go year to year. You know he would be an awesome closer. He could end up getting Chapman money. Just throwing hat out there. After seeing what he did to the Dodgers . You can’t justify giving him 30 million a year or 25. It kills me to say but I rather get Betts and Xander tied up. If you look at the titles we won we went from Schill and Pedro , to Beckett, Lester and now really Price and Evoladi ,thank the lord we didn’t really need Sale. So my point is we move on the next one . it looks like Price figured it out to me. If you can handle the Yanks, Astros and Dodgers like that it is pretty impressive . I like what I said then too.
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Post by tijas2 on Aug 9, 2022 17:58:31 GMT -5
Sale would never do this but the only way I would do anything with Sale is if they do a Wakefield, a year to year deal. Maybe start two years then go year to year. You know he would be an awesome closer. He could end up getting Chapman money. Just throwing hat out there. After seeing what he did to the Dodgers . You can’t justify giving him 30 million a year or 25. It kills me to say but I rather get Betts and Xander tied up. If you look at the titles we won we went from Schill and Pedro , to Beckett, Lester and now really Price and Evoladi ,thank the lord we didn’t really need Sale. So my point is we move on the next one . it looks like Price figured it out to me. If you can handle the Yanks, Astros and Dodgers like that it is pretty impressive . I like what I said then too. Overall yes, but that Price take aged like milk
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hank
Rookie
Posts: 98
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Post by hank on Aug 11, 2022 10:34:03 GMT -5
No one is going to trade for him now because they guy appears to be made of glass but if by some chance Sale is pitching well next year the Red Sox should find a way to move him at the deadline.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 19, 2022 11:59:02 GMT -5
You can’t count on Sale no more, I like the team to target one pitcher. I can’t believe Nola is going to be a free agent. Or go after the kid in Cincinnati.
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Post by seamus on Aug 19, 2022 12:17:41 GMT -5
The Phillies have a $16m club option on Nola for 2023. Many of the top pitchers who could be available actually seem to have player options, so it's unclear exactly who'll be available and who won't be. Carlos Rodon is probably the best guy (he has a $22.5m option, but can probably beat that AAV on a multi-year deal at this point) and there's a pretty steep drop off after that. Eovaldi might end us as the second-best starter on the market depending on what happens with the options for Verlander, DeGrom, and Severino.
Might not have an alternative to hoping Sale recovers over the winter and then encasing him in bubble wrap between pitches.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Aug 19, 2022 12:19:04 GMT -5
I think the Sox should explore the trade market for a pitcher.
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Post by benzinger on Aug 19, 2022 12:35:18 GMT -5
The Phillies have a $16m club option on Nola for 2023. Many of the top pitchers who could be available actually seem to have player options, so it's unclear exactly who'll be available and who won't be. Carlos Rodon is probably the best guy (he has a $22.5m option, but can probably beat that AAV on a multi-year deal at this point) and there's a pretty steep drop off after that. Eovaldi might end us as the second-best starter on the market depending on what happens with the options for Verlander, DeGrom, and Severino. Might not have an alternative to hoping Sale recovers over the winter and then encasing him in bubble wrap between pitches. DeGrom and Verlander will be in the open market this year. DeGrom has already said he will opt out and Verlander can do much better than a 1-year player option on the heels of his Cy Young worthy season this year.
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Post by seamus on Aug 19, 2022 13:17:49 GMT -5
I hadn't seen that about DeGrom. Regarding Verlander, I think it's more likely that he negotiates a new deal with Houston than not, but I could see him looking for something similar to what Scherzer got. If either one is available, I think the Sox have to at least talk to them.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 19, 2022 15:36:08 GMT -5
Yes Degrom was on the same list. I dont know why they listed Nola. I thought it was too good to be true. Try to get the Reds kid. That franchise is pathetic anyway
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