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2018-19 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
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Post by p23w on Feb 7, 2019 19:34:13 GMT -5
In all seriousness, Frank Robinson is one of those players where you can read about for hours. Two time MVP in both leagues. Player/manager. He only struck out 789 times to 698 walks. Unheard of in today's game. Nearly 600 homeruns. I need to go to baseball HOF to see a plaque like this someday. My memory of Frank Robinson consists mostly of his clutch hitting against the Red Sox. Great player no doubt.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 7, 2019 20:20:04 GMT -5
I'm just kind of bumbed that the Sox will never have a chance to get Realmuto now. He'll sign long-term with Philly. They have the money. Congrats on every team in the NL East besides the Marlins and Braves when it comes to caring about winning however. Braves signed Donaldson, but they are still being extremely cheap after getting a new ballpark. I feel like we don't talk enough about how the Braves are a garbage organization from top to bottom.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 7, 2019 21:59:14 GMT -5
In all seriousness, Frank Robinson is one of those players where you can read about for hours. Two time MVP in both leagues. Player/manager. He only struck out 789 times to 698 walks. Unheard of in today's game. Nearly 600 homeruns. I need to go to baseball HOF to see a plaque like this someday. My memory of Frank Robinson consists mostly of his clutch hitting against the Red Sox. Great player no doubt. Don't remember Frank Robinson as a player. I only remember him managing from his Giants days on up. I know he had a positive effect on Curt Schilling's career. He was a goof off until Robinson got a hold of him. As a player, well, it's no coincidence that Baltimore became a serious World Series contender when they got him from Cincy in that lopsided trade for Milt Pappas. It's amazing how great they were. They won the Series in 66 but somehow had an offseason the next year. Then when they hired Earl Weaver they put teams together that won 109 in 1969, 108 in 1970, and 101 in 1971. They were never quite as good when they traded him in 1972 I think it was. They lost the 1969 series and the 1971 series, but won the 1970 series. Winning 108 games in a regular season is good luck - it worked out awesome for the 1970 Orioles, 1975 Reds, 1986 Mets, and the 2018 Red Sox!
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Post by telson13 on Feb 7, 2019 23:10:06 GMT -5
I absolutely LOVE this trade. Not necessarily for either side (although I do think getting out of Miami and into that bandbox Citizen’s is gonna have Realmuto slashing .300/.370/.550), but just for the fun of it. It really is a pretty seismic move in a very contentious division, of a player on the verge of superstardom. And the guys the Marlins get back are super-intriguing. Sanchez should draw the inevitable Pedro comparos (though he’s had injury problems, not Pete’s incredible early-career durability). He’s got filthy stuff, good command, and he’s so young...he’s definitely a relatively high-potential future ace. And Alfaro has big tools...but he has a horrendous approach. Get him to be even *marginally* selective, and the K-BB rate into mid-20s not over 30, and he could be a 120 wRC+ guy. Just a lot of potentially crazy outcomes for this one. God, I wish the Sox could’ve gotten Realmuto.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 7, 2019 23:55:13 GMT -5
Upon some reflection, I think the Realmuto trade is pretty fair. I really like Sanchez (short righties are always getting underrated - if he was 6'4" he'd be in the conversation for the best pitching prospect in the game), and I think Alfaro fits a need at worst and is a good buy-low value. Stewart was drafted young and added some ticks to the fastball - could be a back-of-rotation type, but is probably a low-leverage reliever (which is fine for a third piece).
The Phillies are probably a decent outfielder away from being the class of that division. They only have like $120 million annually to spend though. Maybe one will become available who fits that tight budget.
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Post by iakovos11 on Feb 8, 2019 8:38:04 GMT -5
My memory of Frank Robinson consists mostly of his clutch hitting against the Red Sox. Great player no doubt. Don't remember Frank Robinson as a player. I only remember him managing from his Giants days on up. I know he had a positive effect on Curt Schilling's career. He was a goof off until Robinson got a hold of him. As a player, well, it's no coincidence that Baltimore became a serious World Series contender when they got him from Cincy in that lopsided trade for Milt Pappas. It's amazing how great they were. They won the Series in 66 but somehow had an offseason the next year. Then when they hired Earl Weaver they put teams together that won 109 in 1969, 108 in 1970, and 101 in 1971. They were never quite as good when they traded him in 1972 I think it was. They lost the 1969 series and the 1971 series, but won the 1970 series. Winning 108 games in a regular season is good luck - it worked out awesome for the 1970 Orioles, 1975 Reds, 1986 Mets, and the 2018 Red Sox! My Frank Robinson story. It was Sept of 1975. I was in 1st grade. Our teacher is taking attendance. She calling out the names, when she says "Frank Robinson." Silence. "Is Frank Robinson here?" More silence. "Does anyone know Frank Robinson?" I raise my hand, the teacher calls on me, and I say with a very straight face, "he's the player/manager for the Cleveland Indians." "I think we're looking for a different Frank Robinson."
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Post by manfred on Feb 9, 2019 10:11:47 GMT -5
Yanks offer $220 million to Manny. I love it. I think he should be a Yankee. He’d be the new ARod. Yeah, he’s good, so maybe it makes them better. Whatever. From a narrative perspective, it seems right. Lest anyone forget how evil the Yankees are.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 9, 2019 11:56:08 GMT -5
Yanks offer $220 million to Manny. I love it. I think he should be a Yankee. He’d be the new ARod. Yeah, he’s good, so maybe it makes them better. Whatever. From a narrative perspective, it seems right. Lest anyone forget how evil the Yankees are. Sounded like that was awhile ago though...
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 9, 2019 12:44:23 GMT -5
Yanks offer $220 million to Manny. I love it. I think he should be a Yankee. He’d be the new ARod. Yeah, he’s good, so maybe it makes them better. Whatever. From a narrative perspective, it seems right. Lest anyone forget how evil the Yankees are. Counterpoint: this is an f'ing nightmare.
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Post by manfred on Feb 9, 2019 12:48:35 GMT -5
Yanks offer $220 million to Manny. I love it. I think he should be a Yankee. He’d be the new ARod. Yeah, he’s good, so maybe it makes them better. Whatever. From a narrative perspective, it seems right. Lest anyone forget how evil the Yankees are. Counterpoint: this is an f'ing nightmare. Ah, posh. It’s good when the Yankees and Sox are good. Gets the blood pumping. Machado is very talented, but he’s a loser. I will love rooting against him. I’d far prefer a deathmatch between great Yankee and Red Sox teams — even at risk of losing — to a lesser Yankee team that the Sox just stomp. Where is the satisfaction in that?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 9, 2019 13:15:39 GMT -5
How many years? Solid offer if it's seven years.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 9, 2019 13:50:03 GMT -5
I'll offer this up with just one comment... the similarity in contrasts is hard to dismiss:
Charlie Blackmon: I | Split | G | GS | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | CS | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | TB | GDP | HBP | SH | SF | IBB | ROE | BAbip | tOPS+ |
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| Home | 448 | 413 | 1933 | 1735 | 365 | 597 | 97 | 32 | 75 | 249 | 72 | 24 | 143 | 274 | .344 | .403 | .567 | .970 | 983 | 11 | 35 | 10 | 10 | 13 | 14 | .374 | 126 |
| Away | 472 | 418 | 1940 | 1777 | 236 | 465 | 88 | 8 | 65 | 176 | 55 | 25 | 115 | 379 | .262 | .315 | .430 | .745 | 764 | 19 | 28 | 12 | 8 | 10 | 17 | .298 | 74 |
Carlos González: I | Split | G | GS | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | CS | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | TB | GDP | HBP | SH | SF | IBB | ROE | BAbip | tOPS+ |
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| Home | 668 | 617 | 2719 | 2448 | 485 | 790 | 176 | 29 | 142 | 497 | 57 | 13 | 232 | 531 | .323 | .381 | .592 | .974 | 1450 | 43 | 13 | 5 | 21 | 29 | 14 | .361 | 127 |
| Away | 664 | 615 | 2666 | 2440 | 315 | 613 | 123 | 11 | 89 | 278 | 65 | 17 | 198 | 657 | .251 | .307 | .420 | .728 | 1025 | 47 | 8 | 2 | 18 | 25 | 16 | .306 | 72 |
Nolan Arenado: I | Split | G | GS | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | SB | CS | BB | SO | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS | TB | GDP | HBP | SH | SF | IBB | ROE | BAbip | tOPS+ |
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| Home | 438 | 431 | 1853 | 1677 | 314 | 536 | 124 | 19 | 108 | 376 | 6 | 6 | 148 | 258 | .320 | .374 | .609 | .984 | 1022 | 57 | 9 | 0 | 18 | 25 | 14 | .322 | 121 |
| Away | 438 | 433 | 1842 | 1671 | 210 | 439 | 98 | 6 | 78 | 240 | 7 | 7 | 137 | 313 | .263 | .318 | .469 | .787 | 783 | 43 | 9 | 5 | 20 | 19 | 14 | .278 | 79 |
Provided by Baseball-Reference.comGenerated 2/9/2019.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 9, 2019 15:08:34 GMT -5
I think if the offers stay in the same vicinity among numerous teams Machado will go to NY, which all things being equal is probably his first choice and he would also get to stay at SS for the time being, or at least until Gregorius is ready.
I think Philly would have to blow that offer out of the water for him to sign there. It's quite possible that Machado winds up in NY and Harper winds up in SF while Philly has to settle just for overpaying Kimbrel.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 9, 2019 16:58:25 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Feb 9, 2019 17:23:29 GMT -5
Counterpoint: this is an f'ing nightmare. Ah, posh. It’s good when the Yankees and Sox are good. Gets the blood pumping. Machado is very talented, but he’s a loser. I will love rooting against him. I’d far prefer a deathmatch between great Yankee and Red Sox teams — even at risk of losing — to a lesser Yankee team that the Sox just stomp. Where is the satisfaction in that? I would love this every year forever.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 9, 2019 17:25:55 GMT -5
Remember that thing I said about players being the last to realize their own value, or lack thereof?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 9, 2019 17:29:36 GMT -5
Counterpoint: this is an f'ing nightmare. Ah, posh. It’s good when the Yankees and Sox are good. Gets the blood pumping. Machado is very talented, but he’s a loser. I will love rooting against him. I’d far prefer a deathmatch between great Yankee and Red Sox teams — even at risk of losing — to a lesser Yankee team that the Sox just stomp. Where is the satisfaction in that? I mean, great, but I think the greater issue is that every move baseball has made in the name of "competitive balance" has resulted in a situation where a handful of rich clubs still sign all the best players but they do it at a relative discount while half the league rolls over for them.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 9, 2019 17:37:46 GMT -5
Ah, posh. It’s good when the Yankees and Sox are good. Gets the blood pumping. Machado is very talented, but he’s a loser. I will love rooting against him. I’d far prefer a deathmatch between great Yankee and Red Sox teams — even at risk of losing — to a lesser Yankee team that the Sox just stomp. Where is the satisfaction in that? I would love this every year forever. Preach.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 9, 2019 17:54:51 GMT -5
Remember that thing I said about players being the last to realize their own value, or lack thereof? What exactly are you trying to say?
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Post by telson13 on Feb 9, 2019 22:45:14 GMT -5
Upon some reflection, I think the Realmuto trade is pretty fair. I really like Sanchez (short righties are always getting underrated - if he was 6'4" he'd be in the conversation for the best pitching prospect in the game), and I think Alfaro fits a need at worst and is a good buy-low value. Stewart was drafted young and added some ticks to the fastball - could be a back-of-rotation type, but is probably a low-leverage reliever (which is fine for a third piece). The Phillies are probably a decent outfielder away from being the class of that division. They only have like $120 million annually to spend though. Maybe one will become available who fits that tight budget. I mean, Sanchez is in the conversation for best RH SP prospects already, with the size and injury issues probably what keeps him behind guys like Whitley. He’s a top-25 overall tho (IMO), and he’s just 20. And I agree 100% on Alfaro...there’s *something* there, when a guy’s wRC+ is basically league-average and he’s whiffing 35% and walking 5%. His offensive output as a C is completely serviceable. Obviously if he’s forever that guy, he’s a second-division starter, but they have him for 5 years and Realmuto has only 2 left. And there is a dimension in which he becomes a 120 wRC+ C while being a serviceable defensive player, or even a solid one. Theres certainly no question about the arm or the raw power. That’s an OK deal on its own (getting a 2-3 WAR C for 5 years in exchange for a 5-WAR C for two, especially on a bad team that has no chance of contending while Realmuto’s under contract). The Marlins at least got HUGE upside back, even if the downside is Alfaro being meh/borderline starter and “nothing” (middling relievers or AAAA guys, which is pretty unlikely) from Sanchez/Stewart. As you say, Stewart is relatively young (he’ll prob start in AA not yet 22), has a solid LH FB, and solid command. Any development on his part prob means low-cost backend starter on the cheap, and I think he could be a higher-leverage relief guy if his stuff ticks up out of the ‘pen. His repertoire reminds me of Wade Davis. And Sanchez def has legit/elite high-leverage relief upside if he can’t hack it starting, especially given his good control history and superb stuff. With how much relievers cost and are valued these days, even the downside “risk” is lessened. It won’t be flashy but they should get solid value. And, they could get a *really* flashy return if they’re lucky. I just think it’s gonna be a super fun trade to watch play out.
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Post by telson13 on Feb 9, 2019 22:59:18 GMT -5
Yanks offer $220 million to Manny. I love it. I think he should be a Yankee. He’d be the new ARod. Yeah, he’s good, so maybe it makes them better. Whatever. From a narrative perspective, it seems right. Lest anyone forget how evil the Yankees are. Counterpoint: this is an f'ing nightmare. The upside is that if Machado, as a superb 3b and passable SS who’s offensively superior to Bogey gets that deal, Bogey might be inclined to look at 7/$175M or a little less as being a pretty good offer. If he’s a regular 3.5-5 WAR player who might have a little upside left, I’m inclined to be OK with a deal like that that ends before his most pronounced decline years. $22-25M AAV isn’t awful/prohibitive and I think there’s something to be said for keeping the core together long-term, especially when $25M at the end of the deal is probably going to look more like $18-20M in present dollars.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 10, 2019 8:21:35 GMT -5
Counterpoint: this is an f'ing nightmare. The upside is that if Machado, as a superb 3b and passable SS who’s offensively superior to Bogey gets that deal, Bogey might be inclined to look at 7/$175M or a little less as being a pretty good offer. If he’s a regular 3.5-5 WAR player who might have a little upside left, I’m inclined to be OK with a deal like that that ends before his most pronounced decline years. $22-25M AAV isn’t awful/prohibitive and I think there’s something to be said for keeping the core together long-term, especially when $25M at the end of the deal is probably going to look more like $18-20M in present dollars. I wouldn't really describe that as "upside". It's just an example of a team you like benefiting from a crappy system as opposed to one you don't like.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Feb 10, 2019 14:49:15 GMT -5
Article had White Sox offering Machado 8 years 250 million, yet he's waiting for 300 plus million.
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Post by Don Caballero on Feb 10, 2019 16:55:04 GMT -5
Article had White Sox offering Machado 8 years 250 million, yet he's waiting for 300 plus million. How are they supposed to support their families like this?
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 10, 2019 18:16:35 GMT -5
We need a pool on which team and for how much. Will he take the NY discount? Or head to the Windy City with the money on the table?
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