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2018-19 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 21, 2019 15:03:39 GMT -5
I didn’t see a regular season thread and I’m guessing this will be controversial so maybe not best first post... That Ichiro “celebration” was a joke. Using a roster spot and real games for a goodbye is next level. It's two games IN JAPAN. Your cynicism is next level. Gotcha regular season games don’t much matter, good to know.
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mobaz
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Posts: 2,757
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Post by mobaz on Mar 21, 2019 15:07:48 GMT -5
It's two games IN JAPAN. Your cynicism is next level. Gotcha regular season games don’t much matter, good to know. I'm working really hard to figure out who was hurt or offended here, but it ain't easy.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 21, 2019 15:14:27 GMT -5
Gotcha regular season games don’t much matter, good to know. I'm working really hard to figure out who was hurt or offended here, but it ain't easy. I’m not hurt, just think it’s a bit too far to give a roster spot to someone for something like this. If all things were equal he wouldn’t have made the team and he certainly wouldn’t have gotten ABs. So he technically took a couple game checks from an underpaid minor leaguer and ABs from a better player. But yes the team ultimately won the games so “no harm no foul”. Do I think it’s the end of the world? Of course not, I could be wrong but I can’t think of another time something like that was done and as great as it is for Ichiro and the Japanese fans it does diminish the supposed importance of the regular season games. Of course most people didn’t even know these games were taking place so what difference does it make?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 21, 2019 15:14:43 GMT -5
It's two games IN JAPAN. Your cynicism is next level. Gotcha regular season games don’t much matter, good to know. They do matter, but not to the point that something like this can never be done. I mean should the Red Sox start Mookie Betts all 162 games because if they rest him they're not trying their hardest to win the day he rests? Ichiro's hitting wasn't good but's it's only 6 ABs. He still made the plays defensively in RF. Didn't see where he was any major defensive liability. I'm sure Sandy Leon is capable of going 0-6 and making the plays defensively. 6 ABs during a 162 game season isn't going to make or break the season. In 1976, 53 year old Minnie Minoso had 8 ABs and got 1 hit. 4 years later he got 2 ABs in 1980 so that he became a 5 decade player and he was all set to go in 1993. Hell, Eddie Gaedel got a major league AB. Those are a lot more egregious than Ichiro getting to play two early season games in Japan to wrap up an amazing career.
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Post by rjp313jr on Mar 21, 2019 15:20:09 GMT -5
Snell got paid today. 5/$50M and will be a FA in time for his age 30 season. Probably left some money on the table, but I'm sure the security is nice. Beats the 20k raise they gave him
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 21, 2019 16:54:19 GMT -5
I'm working really hard to figure out who was hurt or offended here, but it ain't easy. I’m not hurt, just think it’s a bit too far to give a roster spot to someone for something like this. If all things were equal he wouldn’t have made the team and he certainly wouldn’t have gotten ABs. So he technically took a couple game checks from an underpaid minor leaguer and ABs from a better player. But yes the team ultimately won the games so “no harm no foul”. Do I think it’s the end of the world? Of course not, I could be wrong but I can’t think of another time something like that was done and as great as it is for Ichiro and the Japanese fans it does diminish the supposed importance of the regular season games. Of course most people didn’t even know these games were taking place so what difference does it make? When Craig Biggio and Derek Jeter decided to retire, they were given full seasons to hit .251/.285/.381 and .256/.304/.313, respectively. In the long history of teams giving too much time to former superstars, this isn't even a blip. (Oh yeah, and Ichiro getting to play his last two games in Japan is an amazing way for an iconic player to finish his career, certainly a far bigger deal for the game of baseball than denying Dylan Moore a couple plate appearances he theoretically deserves or whatever.)
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Post by bluechip on Mar 21, 2019 17:53:47 GMT -5
I’m not hurt, just think it’s a bit too far to give a roster spot to someone for something like this. If all things were equal he wouldn’t have made the team and he certainly wouldn’t have gotten ABs. So he technically took a couple game checks from an underpaid minor leaguer and ABs from a better player. But yes the team ultimately won the games so “no harm no foul”. Do I think it’s the end of the world? Of course not, I could be wrong but I can’t think of another time something like that was done and as great as it is for Ichiro and the Japanese fans it does diminish the supposed importance of the regular season games. Of course most people didn’t even know these games were taking place so what difference does it make? When Craig Biggio and Derek Jeter decided to retire, they were given full seasons to hit .251/.285/.381 and .256/.304/.313, respectively. In the long history of teams giving too much time to former superstars, this isn't even a blip. (Oh yeah, and Ichiro getting to play his last two games in Japan is an amazing way for an iconic player to finish his career, certainly a far bigger deal for the game of baseball than denying Dylan Moore a couple plate appearances he theoretically deserves or whatever.) Baseball is about entertainment, this was great entertainment. For the fans in Japan and for the American fans. It is great to give Ichiro the send off he deserved.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Mar 22, 2019 5:47:51 GMT -5
Not only entertainment, it’s a game. A game, played by humans who are called players. Because they play. And they play this child’s game to have fun, to enjoy themselves. Did you see the strike Ichiro threw from RF to 3B? That was fun for every player and every fan who stood up to cheer. These players are heroes to fans. Ichiro is a super hero, especially to fans from Seattle and Japan. He deserved to be honored this way. I would love to have been in Tokyo to feel the emotion of the crowd while honoring Ichiro as he played (played) that last game. Winning really isn’t everything or the only thing.
My kid brother was selling hot dogs at Fenway for Ted Williams’ last game. He said everyone from fans to players to vendors simply stopped to watch his last at bat. Ted is a super hero. My brother and Red Sox players were all happy to have seen Ted play (play) his last game. We were all sad to witness Papi play his last game, after an entire season of being honored. We will be sad when Pedey hangs them up in a few years and will honor him, no matter his skillset at the time.
Much of the success of baseball is the connection of fans to players. Most of us connect to the Game because we played this wonderful Game ourselves, and played it for fun. I sure enjoyed it. As big kids we can now identify with the big kids playing the game at the highest level, even sometimes dreaming ourselves onto that field of play, or just remembering.
I understand the business of baseball, but that business is based on human involvement and emotion, such as honoring Ichiro as a great player this week. If baseball is ever played by robots I wouldn’t bother to watch. It would no longer be a game, just a competition, an impersonal battle among creatures we can no longer identify with. Thanks Ichiro.
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on Mar 22, 2019 7:45:22 GMT -5
Don't forget the Mariners and A's were allowed 28 man rosters (with an "active 25" announced per game) for this series since it was such a long trip. So technically Ichiro only took the spot of someone who had to be sent down immediately after the 2 games anyways.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 22, 2019 10:26:27 GMT -5
Snell got paid today. 5/$50M and will be a FA in time for his age 30 season. Probably left some money on the table, but I'm sure the security is nice. That is exactly why Snell was a horrible choice for people to talk about as a problem with Baseball and players getting paid. One great season got him 50 million and he's set for life. Yet if he went the Betts route after a mega deal some how that was wrong haha.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 22, 2019 10:39:07 GMT -5
Snell got paid today. 5/$50M and will be a FA in time for his age 30 season. Probably left some money on the table, but I'm sure the security is nice. That is exactly why Snell was a horrible choice for people to talk about as a problem with Baseball and players getting paid. One great season got him 50 million and he's set for life. Yet if he went the Betts route after a mega deal some how that was wrong haha. I don't know why people treat this like an end-all-be-all when it's almost completely irrelevant to the problem we're discussing. If all anyone needs is to be "set for life", I propose a 100% tax rate on all personal wealth in excess of ten million dollars. Hell, let's treat ourselves, make it twenty mil.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 22, 2019 11:25:27 GMT -5
That is exactly why Snell was a horrible choice for people to talk about as a problem with Baseball and players getting paid. One great season got him 50 million and he's set for life. Yet if he went the Betts route after a mega deal some how that was wrong haha. I don't know why people treat this like an end-all-be-all when it's almost completely irrelevant to the problem we're discussing. If all anyone needs is to be "set for life", I propose a 100% tax rate on all personal wealth in excess of ten million dollars. Hell, let's treat ourselves, make it twenty mil. In general I totally agree. Norm wanted to make the point that Snell and guys like him were the issue because he might never get paid. Which is crazy. Elite young guys and elite players are getting paid. The issue is much more about the older veterans because so many teams don't care about winning games. Gio Gonzalez got one offer all offseason a minor deal a few days ago. This isn't data mining aging curves. Those data points show guys like Gonzalez for a few million are some of the best value bets you can make. That is if you actually care about winning games.
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Post by GyIantosca on Mar 23, 2019 6:00:08 GMT -5
Verlander is off the market two year extension. At this rate only Red Sox players will be on the market. Lol. At least Sale is done.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 25, 2019 9:04:29 GMT -5
Dan Straily released by the Marlins. Not waived, not DFA, just straight-up released.
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mobaz
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Posts: 2,757
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Post by mobaz on Mar 25, 2019 9:41:01 GMT -5
Dan Straily released by the Marlins. Not waived, not DFA, just straight-up released. Are they trying to save his $5M arb salary before it becomes guaranteed? Project Wolverine?
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 25, 2019 9:49:49 GMT -5
Has to be, unless something off the field happened that hasn't been reported.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 25, 2019 9:50:05 GMT -5
Snell got paid today. 5/$50M and will be a FA in time for his age 30 season. Probably left some money on the table, but I'm sure the security is nice. That is exactly why Snell was a horrible choice for people to talk about as a problem with Baseball and players getting paid. One great season got him 50 million and he's set for life. Yet if he went the Betts route after a mega deal some how that was wrong haha. This contract is the strongest argument for the point I've been making. He will be paid less over the next 5 years than he earned the team last year. To his credit, he understands where he is and who he plays for, that he's indentured to the Rays. He probably could have made as much simply by going to arbitration over those years but this guarantees the money even if he's injured and that's the one advantage. They have him where they want him, and he knows that. But it isn't fair at all.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 25, 2019 10:24:35 GMT -5
That is exactly why Snell was a horrible choice for people to talk about as a problem with Baseball and players getting paid. One great season got him 50 million and he's set for life. Yet if he went the Betts route after a mega deal some how that was wrong haha. This contract is the strongest argument for the point I've been making. He will be paid less over the next 5 years than he earned the team last year. To his credit, he understands where he is and who he plays for, that he's indentured to the Rays. He probably could have made as much simply by going to arbitration over those years but this guarantees the money even if he's injured and that's the one advantage. They have him where they want him, and he knows that. But it isn't fair at all. That he could only get a 17,000 raise, might never be that good again and didn't get paid for it? You think the fact he got 50 million helps that? I know you believe that crazy crap, but he didn't earn the team over 50 million last year. If you think a player getting 50 million after one year shows how the system is broken you seem to be missing the point. Heck you seem to want a new mode of production in this Country that pays people based on worth. Good luck with that. Awesome idea, that totally overlooks the capatalist economy we live in. Should players that tank repay the teams that spent years and tons of money developing them? You can't only have it one way. Baseball players just want their fair share as a group based off the total money in the game.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 25, 2019 10:30:57 GMT -5
This contract is the strongest argument for the point I've been making. He will be paid less over the next 5 years than he earned the team last year. To his credit, he understands where he is and who he plays for, that he's indentured to the Rays. He probably could have made as much simply by going to arbitration over those years but this guarantees the money even if he's injured and that's the one advantage. They have him where they want him, and he knows that. But it isn't fair at all. That he could only get a 17,000 raise, might never be that good again and didn't get paid for it? You think the fact he got 50 million helps that? I know you believe that crazy crap, but he didn't earn the team over 50 million last year. If you think a player getting 50 million after one year shows how the system is broken you seem to be missing the point. Heck you seem to want a new mode of production in this Country that pays people based on worth. Good luck with that. Awesome idea, that totally overlooks the capatalist economy we live in. Should players that tank repay the teams that spent years and tons of money developing them? You can't only have it one way. Baseball players just want their fair share as a group based off the total money in the game. There is absolutely nothing capitalist about MLB, nothing. Do not even start with that. The players are OWNED for up to 10 years of their career, making it so they have no decisions other than to take a long term below market contract or to take a one year below market contract. The only freedom they have is that they can quit baseball.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 25, 2019 11:05:39 GMT -5
This contract is the strongest argument for the point I've been making. He will be paid less over the next 5 years than he earned the team last year. To his credit, he understands where he is and who he plays for, that he's indentured to the Rays. He probably could have made as much simply by going to arbitration over those years but this guarantees the money even if he's injured and that's the one advantage. They have him where they want him, and he knows that. But it isn't fair at all. That he could only get a 17,000 raise, might never be that good again and didn't get paid for it? You think the fact he got 50 million helps that? I know you believe that crazy crap, but he didn't earn the team over 50 million last year. If you think a player getting 50 million after one year shows how the system is broken you seem to be missing the point. Heck you seem to want a new mode of production in this Country that pays people based on worth. Good luck with that. Awesome idea, that totally overlooks the capatalist economy we live in. Should players that tank repay the teams that spent years and tons of money developing them? You can't only have it one way. Baseball players just want their fair share as a group based off the total money in the game. Umm... what?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 25, 2019 11:30:02 GMT -5
That he could only get a 17,000 raise, might never be that good again and didn't get paid for it? You think the fact he got 50 million helps that? I know you believe that crazy crap, but he didn't earn the team over 50 million last year. If you think a player getting 50 million after one year shows how the system is broken you seem to be missing the point. Heck you seem to want a new mode of production in this Country that pays people based on worth. Good luck with that. Awesome idea, that totally overlooks the capatalist economy we live in. Should players that tank repay the teams that spent years and tons of money developing them? You can't only have it one way. Baseball players just want their fair share as a group based off the total money in the game. Umm... what? What is confusing? Noms idea's are based off of just that and that is the current issue with Baseball. Revenue has gone up, spending is down.
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Post by iakovos11 on Mar 26, 2019 6:41:50 GMT -5
Moved all the capitalism discussion to the Throwdown Forum. That was getting way too off topic.
Feel to discuss economic theory there.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 26, 2019 12:24:39 GMT -5
Dan Straily released by the Marlins. Not waived, not DFA, just straight-up released. Are they trying to save his $5M arb salary before it becomes guaranteed? Project Wolverine? Has to be, unless something off the field happened that hasn't been reported. The arb salary is exactly it. Unconditional release waivers are a different thing than outright waivers. And fwiw, the report later was that he was DFA first. Cutting Straily before opening day means they just pay him 45 days' termination pay (about 25% of his salary). He'll get roughly $1.2M instead of $5M. And yes I know all this from my little adventure re-learning these rules for the Sandy Leon thing last night.
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mobaz
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Posts: 2,757
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Post by mobaz on Mar 26, 2019 13:36:53 GMT -5
Are they trying to save his $5M arb salary before it becomes guaranteed? Project Wolverine? Has to be, unless something off the field happened that hasn't been reported. The arb salary is exactly it. Unconditional release waivers are a different thing than outright waivers. And fwiw, the report later was that he was DFA first. Cutting Straily before opening day means they just pay him 45 days' termination pay (about 25% of his salary). He'll get roughly $1.2M instead of $5M. And yes I know all this from my little adventure re-learning these rules for the Sandy Leon thing last night. Project Wolverine!! The Marlins are cheap bastards who should have run Straily out every 5th day and traded him (if he returned to form) for a decent prospect. Not collusion, but freeloading, which might be worse. CBA is going to be a nightmare if they are going to try to fix that.
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Post by cotuitfan on Mar 26, 2019 13:38:17 GMT -5
from MLB Los Angeles Angels traded LHP Williams Jerez to San Francisco Giants for Chris Stratton.
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