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2018-19 Non-Red Sox Offseason Thread
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 19, 2018 18:34:04 GMT -5
I just don't understand not trading Sheffield for Cole, yet you do for Paxton who is a lot older and carries way more risk. Even if he flops, he could have been the top piece in a trade for just about anyone, yet they get a guy that is always injured and carries major risk. Paxton is going to help them, yet that was a crazy high cost. Why didn't they just spend money on some starters? Yeah, big miscalculation by Cashman. I bet he'd include Sheffield now if Cole had 2 years of control.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 19, 2018 18:36:48 GMT -5
A liability? Please go look at his fangraphs or b-ref page and then come back and define the word liability. The best thing about this deal is that it's a rental. Paxton only has 1 year of control left. Edit- my bad. Looks like he was a super 2. Two years of control. He hasn't pitched one full season in his career. That's the definition of liability.I was more concerned about the Yankees being in on Kluber or Bauer. I'm relieved it was Paxton. Yup, one of those liabilities that will almost certainly make his team significantly better. That's for sure what a "liability" is.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 19, 2018 18:40:43 GMT -5
He hasn't pitched one full season in his career. That's the definition of liability.I was more concerned about the Yankees being in on Kluber or Bauer. I'm relieved it was Paxton. Yup, one of those liabilities that will almost certainly make his team significantly better. That's for sure what a "liability" is. He will and he will also probably be injured by the time October comes.
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Post by ramireja on Nov 19, 2018 18:41:33 GMT -5
With DiPoto flipping Paxton you'd have to think he's focused more on winning in 2020, 2021 and beyond. With that logic I wonder if Alex Colome (2 yrs of club control) could be available in a trade that includes one our catchers.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 19, 2018 18:45:02 GMT -5
Yup, one of those liabilities that will almost certainly make his team significantly better. That's for sure what a "liability" is. He will and he will also probably be injured by the time October comes. So will Chris Sale, you want to trade him?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 19, 2018 18:45:47 GMT -5
He will and he will also probably be injured by the time October comes. So will Chris Sale, you want to trade him? I would for Victor Robles.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 19, 2018 18:46:08 GMT -5
Paxton has put up 12 fWAR in the last 3 seasons. That's not a liability under any definition.
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kevfc89
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Post by kevfc89 on Nov 19, 2018 18:54:55 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 19, 2018 19:01:58 GMT -5
I think it's a good move for the Yankees in a way.
I think 2 years of Paxton is good value for Sheffield.
Sheffield has a big arm but his control isn't that great and he might not be what people hope he is.
Paxton can pitch. I do wonder how Yankee Stadium's short RF will affect him.
I initially thought wouldn't the Yankees be better off bringing back Happ and hanging onto Sheffield? Or signing Corbin?
Maybe they still do? They have Paxton, Tanaka, Severino, and Sabathia. Lynn and Gray will be gone, so they have room to bring one back unless I'm forgetting somebody? They'll need Adams more or perhaps Montgomery at some point because Paxton will likely wind up missing some time with his injury history.
But being a liability? No that makes no sense. Like somebody else said, that's like saying Sale who will miss some time is a liability. No, Paxton is a good addition who will make the Yankees tougher. We knew they were getting a starter to improve the team and I think they did.
But this tells me that they valued Paxton's contract controllability because they want to have quality for a reasonable price so they can open the coffers for Bryce Harper or more likely Manny Machado.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 19, 2018 19:04:20 GMT -5
Paxton has put up 12 fWAR in the last 3 seasons. That's not a liability under any definition. 7.8 bwar over last three years just for comparison.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Nov 19, 2018 19:13:23 GMT -5
MLB's hard hit% allowed: 1- M. Moore 2- H. Baily 3- J. Paxton
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Post by lennsakata on Nov 19, 2018 19:19:04 GMT -5
I think it's a good move for the Yankees in a way. I think 2 years of Paxton is good value for Sheffield. Sheffield has a big arm but his control isn't that great and he might not be what people hope he is. Paxton can pitch. I do wonder how Yankee Stadium's short RF will affect him.
I initially thought wouldn't the Yankees be better off bringing back Happ and hanging onto Sheffield? Or signing Corbin? Maybe they still do? They have Paxton, Tanaka, Severino, and Sabathia. Lynn and Gray will be gone, so they have room to bring one back unless I'm forgetting somebody? They'll need Adams more or perhaps Montgomery at some point because Paxton will likely wind up missing some time with his injury history. But being a liability? No that makes no sense. Like somebody else said, that's like saying Sale who will miss some time is a liability. No, Paxton is a good addition who will make the Yankees tougher. We knew they were getting a starter to improve the team and I think they did. But this tells me that they valued Paxton's contract controllability because they want to have quality for a reasonable price so they can open the coffers for Bryce Harper or more likely Manny Machado. Probably grasping at straws but his road era has been about a run higher each of the past two seasons...2.45/3.66 and 3.35/4.24. Still a great trade for the Yankees...he had a big spike in homeruns last year (23 in 160 ip) but was good at keeping in the park (and everything else) in 2017 when he allowed 9 in 136 ip.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Nov 19, 2018 19:19:42 GMT -5
Paxton last 3 years 121.0 IP 136.0 IP 160.1 IP (age 29)
Before that was 24.0 74.0 67.0
He had a 3.76 ERA last year and is moving to a very hitter friendly Yankee Stadium.
I don't mind it as a Sox fan if you believed in Sheffield's potential. Even if you don't fully, they could have gotten more for him. Paxton is exactly a boom or bust candidate.
Now, if they sign Corbin I feel a bit differently about this trade.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 19, 2018 19:28:32 GMT -5
I just don't understand not trading Sheffield for Cole, yet you do for Paxton who is a lot older and carries way more risk. Even if he flops, he could have been the top piece in a trade for just about anyone, yet they get a guy that is always injured and carries major risk. Paxton is going to help them, yet that was a crazy high cost. Why didn't they just spend money on some starters? Wasn't Andujar the sticking point in a Cole trade? I mean maybe the Yankees could've built something around Sheffield, but everything I read was that the Pirates apparently weren't willing to budge on their ask of Andujar after the Yankees (rightly) said no on Torres. Anyway, there appear to be some wide discrepancies on how Sheffield is viewed, so obviously people's feeling on this trade is going to depend on that. If someone doesn't love Sheffield, this is an obvious deal for the Yankees. The idea that anyone just watched the 2018 baseball season and came away thinking that a guy needs to be some 240 inning Hoss to have value boggles my mind. If a guy reaches maximum value at 160 innings, teams are going to work him in there. I'll say this: the Yankees minor league scouting has been a hell of a lot better in recent years than the Mariners.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 19, 2018 19:33:49 GMT -5
Paxton last 3 years 121.0 IP 136.0 IP 160.1 IP (age 29) Before that was 24.0 74.0 67.0 He had a 3.76 ERA last year and is moving to a very hitter friendly Yankee Stadium. I don't mind it as a Sox fan if you believed in Sheffield's potential. Even if you don't fully, they could have gotten more for him. Paxton is exactly a boom or bust candidate. Now, if they sign Corbin I feel a bit differently about this trade. They are going to sign Corbin most likely and 2 other relievers.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Nov 19, 2018 19:45:20 GMT -5
Sheffield, who has some serious control problems and may end up a reliever, and two whatevers for a guy who throws a million miles an hour and pitches like an ace when healthy. I hate how Cashman never seems to have to give up much when trading for impact talent; I definitely would've figured one more good prospect besides Sheffield was heading back to the Mariners. Cashman definitely knows how to make the deals to bring in talent. I believe Swanson was either going to have to be added to the 40 man or be exposed to the Rule 5 draft. I was thinking the Sox could gamble on him if he was exposed. Cashman seems to have the knack of including the prospects that will need protection or be Rule 5 available. EDIT: I can't wait to see what he gets for Sonny Gray.
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Post by jdb on Nov 19, 2018 19:53:47 GMT -5
I think it’s probably a fair trade. I don’t think Paxton is a sure thing health wise and transitioning out of Safco into the AL East. These 3 for 1’s start to add up even for deep systems.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Nov 19, 2018 19:59:29 GMT -5
Honestly if they’re smart they still go sign a pitcher. I like this trade though. Sheffield is no sure thing and the Yankees don’t need Paxton to throw 100 innings, they need him to shut us down in October. Paxton isn’t Sonny Gray, his stuff will play anywhere.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Nov 19, 2018 20:01:17 GMT -5
Sheffield, who has some serious control problems and may end up a reliever, and two whatevers for a guy who throws a million miles an hour and pitches like an ace when healthy. I hate how Cashman never seems to have to give up much when trading for impact talent; I definitely would've figured one more good prospect besides Sheffield was heading back to the Mariners. Sheffield has a ton of talent and has serious upside. Paxton is more of a liability at this point. The dude has amassed more f-war over the past three Sean’s than any pitcher in our rotation not named Chris. I wish we had a few liabilities like that.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 19, 2018 20:10:52 GMT -5
I just don't understand not trading Sheffield for Cole, yet you do for Paxton who is a lot older and carries way more risk. Even if he flops, he could have been the top piece in a trade for just about anyone, yet they get a guy that is always injured and carries major risk. Paxton is going to help them, yet that was a crazy high cost. Why didn't they just spend money on some starters? Wasn't Andujar the sticking point in a Cole trade? I mean maybe the Yankees could've built something around Sheffield, but everything I read was that the Pirates apparently weren't willing to budge on their ask of Andujar after the Yankees (rightly) said no on Torres. Anyway, there appear to be some wide discrepancies on how Sheffield is viewed, so obviously people's feeling on this trade is going to depend on that. If someone doesn't love Sheffield, this is an obvious deal for the Yankees. The idea that anyone just watched the 2018 baseball season and came away thinking that a guy needs to be some 240 inning Hoss to have value boggles my mind. If a guy reaches maximum value at 160 innings, teams are going to work him in there. I'll say this: the Yankees minor league scouting has been a hell of a lot better in recent years than the Mariners. www.pinstripealley.com/2018/1/14/16889394/yankees-trade-rumors-gerrit-cole-miguel-andujar-gleyber-torres-estevan-florial-justus-sheffieldWas just going off that, they were all off the table, yet now he's not. I don't see anything that would make me change my mind about him after 2018. Kinda seems like a panic move because their pitching really hurt them last year. Also kinda seems those reports about their budget might be right. Instead of just buying some starters they have to trade one of their young studs. Your point about 160 is right on, but he's only done that once. He's only made 28 starts once in his career. If it was me the 160 wouldn't be the worry, its can he even give you 160? We he be ready and available for October type crap.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 19, 2018 20:41:22 GMT -5
Sheffield has a ton of talent and has serious upside. Paxton is more of a liability at this point. The dude has amassed more f-war over the past three Sean’s than any pitcher in our rotation not named Chris. I wish we had a few liabilities like that. Eduardo is Paxton. You have like a couple guys like that in Wright, Eduardo, Sale, and maybe Eovaldi soon. Ohh and he's 30, so his decline is just beginning. Like I mentioned before, I'm just glad this wasn't Kluber or Bauer.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Nov 19, 2018 20:45:09 GMT -5
He might very well not even give the Yankees 200 IP in his 2 years remaining. Saying that as long as he's dominate in October they can live with 100 IP is being a bit hopeful. It's not like you can pick and choose when he gives you a 100 IP. He could be very good for the first 4 months of the season and then get shut down.
No one is worried that, not only is he moving to Yankee Stadium, but that he beat his career high in IP, 160, by 30, at age 29? No reason to expect some regression?
I just think they could have done better for Sheffield.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 19, 2018 21:07:25 GMT -5
The dude has amassed more f-war over the past three Sean’s than any pitcher in our rotation not named Chris. I wish we had a few liabilities like that. Eduardo is Paxton. You have like a couple guys like that in Wright, Eduardo, Sale, and maybe Eovaldi soon. Ohh and he's 30, so his decline is just beginning. Like I mentioned before, I'm just glad this wasn't Kluber or Bauer. Pedro, I really don't agree with your basic point. No, they likely don't have the talent to secure Kluber, Bauer, or DeGrom unless they deal either Andujar or Torres which they don't want to do. Doesn't stop them from signing Corbin, which they have a real legit shot to do, especially since Paxton doesn't cost them much financially. So say they get Corbin, then they run out a front 5 of Severino, Tanaka, Corbin, Paxton, and Sabathia. So basically in that scenario Paxton is replacing Gray and Lynn. That's an upgrade any way you look at it. Even at 150 innings. Who's to say that those innings all come before October anyways? They could come afterwards as a fresh pitcher. The Yankees got better today. Sheffield might find it eventually, but despite his stuff, he's got issues with controls and it's not crazy to think that he won't be as good as Paxton, who is a pretty good pitcher.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 19, 2018 21:18:03 GMT -5
The dude has amassed more f-war over the past three Sean’s than any pitcher in our rotation not named Chris. I wish we had a few liabilities like that. Eduardo is Paxton. You have like a couple guys like that in Wright, Eduardo, Sale, and maybe Eovaldi soon. Ohh and he's 30, so his decline is just beginning. Like I mentioned before, I'm just glad this wasn't Kluber or Bauer. ERod has never had a year as good as Paxton's last 3.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 19, 2018 21:18:38 GMT -5
The Yankees did get better. They were getting better this offseason whether we liked it or not. They have talent and plenty of money. I even admitted they got better with my first post.
The question is did they target the right guy and did they trade the right prospect in a deal to get this guy?
I don't think they did either. They traded their most major league ready starting pitching prospect for a guy who you can bank on not giving you 175 innings at least.
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