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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 23, 2019 11:33:26 GMT -5
Two interesting guys in the bullpen with a wide range of outcomes would be Thornburg and Brewer.
Milwaukee Thornburg was an excellent reliever. At worst that guy would be a solid 8th inning complement to the closer (Barnes most likely). Milwaukee Thornburg would even be good enough to be their closer.
But how many guys actually return from thoracic outlet syndrome surgery to being 100% of what they were at their best?
Of course with Thornburg, he might not even make it out of spring training if his stuff isn't there as his money isn't guaranteed at this point.
With Colten Brewer, I think Bannister and Levangie spotted something about him that they really like and they think they can develop that can make him a standout reliever. I think he's one of their big projects for this year.
Can they? It's a big question.
Say Thornburg is completely healthy and back to what he once was. Say Colten Brewer rides the AAAA shuttle and then sticks the way Brasier did (and we have to hope Brasier can pick up where he left off).
Perhaps Barnes takes to closing.
Then maybe at least one of Hernandez, Lakins, or Feltman are ready come August.
At some point, I'd hope a lefty option would emerge, not necessarily a LOOGY, but a guy who can come in, be tough on those lefties, but not get mauled if they have to face a righty. Maybe Poyner can be that guy or maybe it is Hernandez later on in the year.
The bullpen could work. There's enough scenarios where it can happen, but there is so much variability in the outcomes, more so than an established reliever type bullpen.
I do think the Sox will get a veteran reliever just before spring training with Shawn Kelley being as good a possibility as anybody else (don't really want Ramos or Boxberger and their wildness), although Kelley's propensity for giving up homers is worrisome. I'd prefer Greg Holland at this point, but he might not settle for the 2 - 3 million the Red Sox are looking to spend.
This bullpen is definitely the most volatile area of this team. Everything else is settled and ready to go with the only other question being Dustin Pedroia's health, but with a good insurance plan in place (Holt).
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Post by sparkygian on Jan 23, 2019 12:18:21 GMT -5
Totally agree about Thornburg and about the development of Brewer. If those two could come through I would feel like the closer situation becomes less important of an issue because of the depth of good arms available to even do a closer by committee situation if need be. It does seem kind of questionable to once again have a bullpen without a good lefty, or even a LOOGY
Just a side note based on yesterday's HOF results: It was awesome to see Rivera getting first unanimous selection, and IMO he is a good case in point about the difference between good relievers/firemen, and a true closer. He seemed to be the best closer ever, as opposed to just being a good arm out of the bullpen because of the mental aspect, of which it seemed to me Rivera had the supreme smarts and the coolness to excel like he did.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 23, 2019 15:05:55 GMT -5
Kelly was dominant the first two months of the year. Yea relievers can be up and down. Yet not every reliever is capable of doing what Kimbrel, Barnes, Braiser, and Kelly could when they are on fire. For example Hembree and Workman are fine back of the bullpen types. They can get hot and pitch very well. Yet they can't dominate like those four can. So at minimum you need enough high end goes so your chances of having a good bullpen isn't we'll find two more Braiser type guys this year. Right now that is the approach. I just have to ask when have the Red Sox done well with no names coming out of no where to solid to dominate? By my count it was Foulke, Papelbon, Koji, and Kimbrel that were our anchors for our last four Championships. With guys like Embree, Williamson, and Timlin being the veteran help. I mean 2007 had Okajima he would qualify as he was thought of as just a friend to keep our star pitcher happy. 2013 had Tazawa and Miller, but those aren't come out of no where guys. One was a top prospect, the other a former top prospect. I'd feel better if our no name guys were former top 10 prospects with electric stuff. I look at it that your best bet is Veterans that are proven or taking starters and making them relievers. Finding a true no name like Braiser that is dominant is a rather rare thing. Sure if you look at all of Baseball it happens, you don't build a killer team and then bet you'll just find a few guys for your pen. You don't want to spend big and you want one year deals ok. Sign a few guys that have good track records, those guys can have huge years all the time. Have we brought in any Veterans that have dominated before? The way were going it's like you'll have to count on a guy like Lakins, Shawaryn, or Feltman stepping up. Who knows maybe they do, but that is risky. I'd feel better if one of those guys had even pitched in the Majors yet. Like I still can't understand why Lakins wasn't called up, which makes me wonder if we are too high on him. The Yankees are a very good team. If our bullpen implodes we could easily lose the division and be looking at a one game playoff. I don't know about you, I want no part of that. I know Kelly was good for 2 months -- but he stunk for 3.5 months. He wasn't just bad, He was god awful bad. So bad he was being left off the roster for Stephen Wright who was hurt most of the year. And I don;t understand your point about Barnes and Brasier. I thought you were concerned that they weren't that reliable? As far as "dominate" - I don;t understand that either. Workman in 2013 did well. If a relief pitcher gets outs isn;t that good enough? Because "good enough" isn't "dominant" that means it's not "good enough?" Even the names vs no names. You become "a name" after you do well. So I think you're saying Barnes and Brasier are acceptable as "good enough / dominant?" Well after season ends guys such as Thornburgh, Wright, Workman, and even Feltman , might one or two or even three be "good enough?" If this year they miraculously win it all and we look to go under the cap next year not signing much in the bullpen might we look back and say for any of these guys that turns out ot be successful ; Well Thornburgh was a name before. And Wright was a name because he was an all-star. And Workman was a name because what he showed in 2013. And Feltman was a name because he was such a high pick for a reliever and was anticipated to be being dominant. And as fas as the Yanks-- they were a good team last year too. And if there starting pitching staff implodes they will probably be in one game playofff or worse too. Three of their top 5 starters have injury issues and a 4th is going to be 38 and a 5th has worn down a but the last 2 years. But would getting anyone left that is not named Kimbrel ensure anything? And for that matter does Kimbrel even with anyone else the SOx pick up in FA even if it is the best of what os left ensure the SOx will win the division? The SOx can always find someone during the season. And I do think it's possible Sox don't make the playoffs but I'd have thought that even with Kimbrel and Kelly. The Yanks are potentially a monster and Tampa Bay is damn good. Our division is loaded. It's about the stuff a reliever has. For example Workman in 2013 isn't the same pitcher we now have. The injuries took a few MPH off his fastball. With Kimbrel, Kelly, Barnes, and Braiser you had the ultimate power bullpen. Everyone of them could throw 98 plus last year, had movement and secondary pitches. It's the type of bullpen the Yankees spend a lot of money to create. Thornburg is a name, yet he's coming off an injury that can end pitchers careers. He was crap last year and hasn't been good in two years. Same with Smith and Wright. Those are proven guys, yet you have no clue if they will be healthy nevermind if they can be good again. Which is my main point why we need a few Vets to reduce risk. Go read up on the injury Thornburg had and how pitchers come back from it. A team like this shouldn't be counting on guys like that. They should be depth guys. The type of guys that if they can pitch well not just give you an OK bullpen, but make you have one of the best bullpens. Like last year with Braiser, they didn't count on him. He was depth, right now your counting on two guys stepping up day one of the regular season. Maybe it all works out, there is certainly that chance. It's just way to risky for me though given this team. You seem ok with the bullpen. So can you tell me what it will look like and your confidence level in those players? For me we've built very good depth in the bullpen if you can add a few Veterans that have a better chance of being good. It's the smart play so we don't start the season off bad and so we don't have to trade for bullpen help later. Feltman is certainly a name. Yet your not seeing him to midseason at the earliest and we have zero clue what he can do. Like I said before your top prospects are your second best bet over proven veterans that aren't coming off major surgery and might never be the same. I feel better about Lakins, Shawaryn, and Feltman than I do Thornburg for example. Yet you should never build a bullpen that will need players like that to step up. If it happens its a bonus, not it has to happen. If you wanted to do that you should have brought those guys up in September to get thier feet wet and see how they do. Nevermind the real point is replacing guys that can be dominate. Guys that can be a top four in the playoffs. Big difference in that, then maybe those guys can help in the back of the bullpen. Long-term I like that group. I'm not ready to trust them next year. Yes I'm say I don't have a problem with Barnes and Braiser being two of my top four. It's who are my other two guys that are going to be pitching high leverage innings? I want proven guys because while I don't have an issue with Braiser he's still risky. Right now Barnes is really the only guy I fully trust. We haven't come close to replacing the 2.8 bwar Kimbrel and Kelly gave us. That isn't easy to replace. For example Barnes was a 1.1 bwar guy last year. You talk about the Yankees starters having issues. Yet its a much improved bunch over last year. The chances they have issues is way lower than our bullpen. They closed the gap on our starters, yet there is now this massive gap between our bullpens. Last year the gap in starters for us was massive and easily made up for the smaller gap in our bullpen. This year I wouldn't say that. Happ and Paxton for a full season is going to be huge for them. The current models have us just behind the Yankees in the projections, most have Houston, the Yankees, then Red Sox. Yes I do think signing a Kimbrel, then a Brach, Wilson, or Holland pushes us above them. Heck even two of Holland, Brach, and Wilson likely draws us even or heck maybe slightly a head. That's kinda my whole point. It's crazy not to do it because it will move the chains. If we truly had enough it wouldn't make a difference. Really whats the down side? Money? If we are truly resetting next year like 90% of you think. We shouldn't worry about money this year and should go for it. You want to take major risks, you do it next year when you reset, not the year before. Saying we have 2-3 million to spend is laughable. If that is truly our budget DD messed up big time building this team. If it works out I'll give him all the credit in the world, if our bullpen implodes he'll also deserve all of the blame. It won't be just bad luck, but bad planning. He's created a super deep team can survive injuries and bad years everywhere but in the bullpen. He's gone out of his way to reduce risk everywhere but in the pen.
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Post by Addam603 on Jan 23, 2019 18:37:37 GMT -5
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jan 24, 2019 13:13:53 GMT -5
Brach signing with the Cubs, 1 year, $ 3 million. The bargin bin of relievers continues to empty out. Pretty soon all that will be left is potential spring training invite-type players.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 24, 2019 13:26:03 GMT -5
And now Hunter Strickland has signed with Seattle.
I wouldn't have minded the Sox picking up Strickland. He throws hard and has been successful so far.
So now Brach is off the table and so is Strickland. The best of the rest is coming off the board. At this point either Holland or Kelley is about as good as I could hope for.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jan 24, 2019 14:03:37 GMT -5
Brach signing with the Cubs, 1 year, $ 3 million. The bargin bin of relievers continues to empty out. Pretty soon all that will be left is potential spring training invite-type players. What are we missing? So if the Sox are aiming for a 2020 reset, as they should do, exceeding the cap in 2019 to maximize a chance to repeat makes sense. Especially as they are already a stone’s throw from that cap and any expenditure during the season is likely to breach it anyway. Is it “Kimbrel on a one year or bust”? Brach for $3M seems almost ideal. Are other deals in the works we haven’t imagined yet? I can agree with DDo and Alex about a ST competition among the two-dozen volatile RP’s assembled; and would be OK breaking camp with, for example, Barnes, Brasier, Hembree, Lakins, Wright, Velasquez, Johnson if that’s how the competition works out. But at some point in the season, some need will reveal itself and will cost The cap to fill. So why not spend some of it now?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 24, 2019 14:17:52 GMT -5
Brach signing with the Cubs, 1 year, $ 3 million. The bargin bin of relievers continues to empty out. Pretty soon all that will be left is potential spring training invite-type players. What are we missing? So if the Sox are aiming for a 2020 reset, as they should do, exceeding the cap in 2019 to maximize a chance to repeat makes sense. Especially as they are already a stone’s throw from that cap and any expenditure during the season is likely to breach it anyway. Is it “Kimbrel on a one year or bust”? Brach for $3M seems almost ideal. Are other deals in the works we haven’t imagined yet? I can agree with DDo and Alex about a ST competition among the two-dozen volatile RP’s assembled; and would be OK breaking camp with, for example, Barnes, Brasier, Hembree, Lakins, Wright, Velasquez, Johnson if that’s how the competition works out. But at some point in the season, some need will reveal itself and will cost The cap to fill. So why not spend some of it now? I am starting to wonder if the Sox come away with anybody other than spring training invites. The only rumors I read was that they were in contact with Shawn Kelley as were about 10 other teams. The list of viable guys who could actually improve the bullpen and/or pitch in high leverage situations are dwindling. Of those guys I liked Strickland (great stuff, great past stats, control questions), Brach (good past results, control questions), Kelley (good stats, good stuff, but homer prone), and perhaps Holland (elite stats 5 early on, growing control issues and injury issues, good with Nats after being terrible with Cards) were the only guys I could really see as having a shot at fitting those descriptions. It sounds like the Sox might just go into the season with open competition and hope that Wright and Thornburg wind up as positive answers to their bullpen questions while they also hope that Barnes can slide into the closer role and Brasier doesn't regress. And then if it doesn't work out they try to acquire somebody (or more) at the deadline. Last year's pen somehow held together early on despite their questions but I would be surprised if that happened two years in a row. I can see the bullpen letting more games slip than we'd be alright with if they don't address things sooner than later.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jan 24, 2019 15:13:18 GMT -5
The first 11G are on the road without days off against beatable teams (M’s, A’s, Dbacks), then home and more travel (even a distracting Londoon trip). Alex may need more flexibility with pitchers in the first few months to ease in the SP’s thru some kind of 6- man rotation, but also shortened starts. Skillsets like Wright, Johnson, Velasquez, Shawaryn, Erasmo may play more important roles than usual. Guys like Barnes, Brasier, Hembree may only take the 8th and 9th while the “longmen” pitch 3-4 innings to save the rotation. Barnes and other have the skills, iff not the experience, to close.
The need for longmen may also be valid if Eovaldi remains vulnerable the 3rd time through an order, or ERod remains inefficient, or Sale’s innings need to be reduced. Again, we may he missing something that the Sox have figured out.
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bosox
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Post by bosox on Jan 24, 2019 21:14:50 GMT -5
Wow. I don't think what they have in the pen will cut it and adding a major league invite isn't going to make a significant improvement. I hope this doesn't turn into an in-season search for bandaids to fix a bullpen that can't protect leads or close out games.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 24, 2019 22:23:46 GMT -5
Wow. I don't think what they have in the pen will cut it and adding a major league invite isn't going to make a significant improvement. I hope this doesn't turn into an in-season search for bandaids to fix a bullpen that can't protect leads or close out games. Jesus, now you really got to hope they're posturing when it comes to this bullpen question.
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Post by soxjim on Jan 24, 2019 22:33:06 GMT -5
Brach signing with the Cubs, 1 year, $ 3 million. The bargin bin of relievers continues to empty out. Pretty soon all that will be left is potential spring training invite-type players. What are we missing? So if the Sox are aiming for a 2020 reset, as they should do, exceeding the cap in 2019 to maximize a chance to repeat makes sense. Especially as they are already a stone’s throw from that cap and any expenditure during the season is likely to breach it anyway. Is it “Kimbrel on a one year or bust”? Brach for $3M seems almost ideal. Are other deals in the works we haven’t imagined yet? I can agree with DDo and Alex about a ST competition among the two-dozen volatile RP’s assembled; and would be OK breaking camp with, for example, Barnes, Brasier, Hembree, Lakins, Wright, Velasquez, Johnson if that’s how the competition works out . But at some point in the season, some need will reveal itself and will cost The cap to fill. So why not spend some of it now?
What's the number you think? It looks like he is saying "not a penny more?" Secondly, suppose Pedroia gets hurt after a certain amount of games and you spent that on relief pitching and a pretty good 2b is available?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 24, 2019 23:17:58 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 25, 2019 0:00:23 GMT -5
Well, like the old adage says, you can never have too much pitching. Oh wait, the Red Sox must think they already have too much pitching.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 25, 2019 0:02:55 GMT -5
What are we missing? So if the Sox are aiming for a 2020 reset, as they should do, exceeding the cap in 2019 to maximize a chance to repeat makes sense. Especially as they are already a stone’s throw from that cap and any expenditure during the season is likely to breach it anyway. Is it “Kimbrel on a one year or bust”? Brach for $3M seems almost ideal. Are other deals in the works we haven’t imagined yet? I can agree with DDo and Alex about a ST competition among the two-dozen volatile RP’s assembled; and would be OK breaking camp with, for example, Barnes, Brasier, Hembree, Lakins, Wright, Velasquez, Johnson if that’s how the competition works out . But at some point in the season, some need will reveal itself and will cost The cap to fill. So why not spend some of it now?
What's the number you think? It looks like he is saying "not a penny more?" Secondly, suppose Pedroia gets hurt after a certain amount of games and you spent that on relief pitching and a pretty good 2b is available? Odds are they'll need bullpen help more than they'd need 2b help. Between Holt, Lin, or even Nunez they should be able to survive. A bad bullpen is really hard to survive.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 25, 2019 1:04:36 GMT -5
Well, like the old adage says, you can never have too much pitching. Oh wait, the Red Sox must think they already have too much pitching. It's John Henry talking here, not Dave Dombrowski. John Henry is the one crying about spending too much money, Dombrowski is just the guy who's representing Henry and taking the hit for it (like every GM should do, take the hits for the owner). Not to harp back on the Pearce thing, but in terms of team building, you can at least question it a little. Dave Dombrowski certainly knew how much money they had to spend. They spent most of it on Eovaldi and money well spent there imo. You needed a starter and you got him and Eovaldi fit well against the Yankees in terms of matchups. That is the Sox biggest competition in the division. OTOH, the Sox could have handed Nunez (who really isn't a middle infielder anymore defensively) a first base glove and not resigned Pearce. Nunez could have been your backup first baseman in this case. You could have used his 6.25 million and used that and tried to match the Angels offer of 9 million for Cody Allen or the 9 million AAV for 2 years for Kelvin Herrera. Again most of the blame is on Henry for not wanting to spend more at this point, but that's one thing you can point to with Dombrowski and say he might have misjudged where to spend Henry's money.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 25, 2019 1:54:59 GMT -5
Well, like the old adage says, you can never have too much pitching. Oh wait, the Red Sox must think they already have too much pitching. It's John Henry talking here, not Dave Dombrowski. John Henry is the one crying about spending too much money, Dombrowski is just the guy who's representing Henry and taking the hit for it (like every GM should do, take the hits for the owner). Not to harp back on the Pearce thing, but in terms of team building, you can at least question it a little. Dave Dombrowski certainly knew how much money they had to spend. They spent most of it on Eovaldi and money well spent there imo. You needed a starter and you got him and Eovaldi fit well against the Yankees in terms of matchups. That is the Sox biggest competition in the division. OTOH, the Sox could have handed Nunez (who really isn't a middle infielder anymore defensively) a first base glove and not resigned Pearce. Nunez could have been your backup first baseman in this case. You could have used his 6.25 million and used that and tried to match the Angels offer of 9 million for Cody Allen or the 9 million AAV for 2 years for Kelvin Herrera. Again most of the blame is on Henry for not wanting to spend more at this point, but that's one thing you can point to with Dombrowski and say he might have misjudged where to spend Henry's money. I'm not blaming Dombrowski. John Henry made it clear that he doesn't want the Sox to continue to spend in the neighborhood they were spending last year. I don't hold Dombrowski responsible for that. Why in the world would you ever hand Nunez a first base glove? Just why? And why in the world wouldn't you sign Pearce? Did you really want a Moreland/Nunez platoon? C'mon. Signing Steve Pearce isn't the problem. He came back very cheaply and for the one year they were hoping for. They need his bat. He's more than a platoon bat. If they want to free up some minor cash dump Sandy Leon.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 25, 2019 3:21:44 GMT -5
Call me confused because signing a couple of guys in the the 3 million range doesn't take us over right? We had about 40 million, signed Eovaldi 17 million, Pearce for 6.25 million. I'm not sure if Thornburg is in there, but they can just cut him can't they? Betts was slightly higher than expected. We have to be around 13 million fromthe highest tax line no? You can get two guys like Brach and still leave 7 million for call ups and deadline deals.
So if this is truly Henry not spending money I won't spend a small fortune going to games this year. That is crazy talk and just plan stupid.
I gotta agree if Pearce cost us getting a few bullpen arms,that was stupid. If you could sign two guys like Brach or Pearce I'd take the two bullpen arms currently. Moreland is a solid regular, you can easily find platoon guys at 1B and our lineup won't implode if we don't have Pearce. You can't say the same thing about our bullpen right now. I'd gladly take two bwar in our pen right now over 2 for our positional playler.
The thing that really confuses me are the reports that they have no plans of using young guys. While crazy risky I could almost understand if they planned on Lakins and Shawaryn being a big part of the bullpen. Then Feltman later on and maybe even Hernandez. Yet they plan on filling Kimbrel and Kelly with minor league contract guys? What am I missing? I have to be missing something rather big. This all makes no sense.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 25, 2019 4:43:07 GMT -5
It's John Henry talking here, not Dave Dombrowski. John Henry is the one crying about spending too much money, Dombrowski is just the guy who's representing Henry and taking the hit for it (like every GM should do, take the hits for the owner). Not to harp back on the Pearce thing, but in terms of team building, you can at least question it a little. Dave Dombrowski certainly knew how much money they had to spend. They spent most of it on Eovaldi and money well spent there imo. You needed a starter and you got him and Eovaldi fit well against the Yankees in terms of matchups. That is the Sox biggest competition in the division. OTOH, the Sox could have handed Nunez (who really isn't a middle infielder anymore defensively) a first base glove and not resigned Pearce. Nunez could have been your backup first baseman in this case. You could have used his 6.25 million and used that and tried to match the Angels offer of 9 million for Cody Allen or the 9 million AAV for 2 years for Kelvin Herrera. Again most of the blame is on Henry for not wanting to spend more at this point, but that's one thing you can point to with Dombrowski and say he might have misjudged where to spend Henry's money. Why in the world would you ever hand Nunez a first base glove? Just why? And why in the world wouldn't you sign Pearce? Did you really want a Moreland/Nunez platoon? C'mon. Signing Steve Pearce isn't the problem. He came back very cheaply and for the one year they were hoping for. They need his bat. He's more than a platoon bat. If they want to free up some minor cash dump Sandy Leon. I'm willing to try anything besides heights and needles once lol. I'd try watching Nunez at first base. Why not? If Hanley Ramirez can do it, then anyone can do it. Besides, Nunez will become utterly useless if Devers breaks out this year in a big way like I think he can (I hope this happens). Nunez won't be splitting time with Devers no more (which is his main role on this team). So you basically flushed that 4-5 million down the drain if you don't find a use for it. He's not a middle infielder anymore unless it's a break in case of emergency kind of thing. He was a disaster at second last year and he's not getting any younger this year. I've just felt the need of this team from the start of the off-season was a solid rotation piece and a bullpen arm. I've never felt hitting was this team's problem and that they needed Pearce back. You have options in the minors if first base becomes a disaster. Chavis would be one later on and it would be cool to see Sam Travis start hitting all over again. If you don't like those options, I'm sure you can find it somewhere else. Platoon first baseman are a dime a dozen. Heck, Mark Reynolds just got released and probably would take a spring training invite at this point. Leon is only making 2 something million this year and was the Sox primary catcher last year. You're not saving anything there and I doubt he's going anywhere, even if we all would like to see Swihart get a chance at being the primary catcher all over again. I'm not really complaining or anything, just pointing out what could have been done differently. The Sox won in 2018, so life is good and I got nothing to complain about I feel for at least 3 years. Would be nice to see back to back world series for the first time in my life though.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 25, 2019 4:51:41 GMT -5
The thing that really confuses me are the reports that they have no plans of using young guys. While crazy risky I could almost understand if they planned on Lakins and Shawaryn being a big part of the bullpen. Then Feltman later on and maybe even Hernandez. Yet they plan on filling Kimbrel and Kelly with minor league contract guys? What am I missing? I have to be missing something rather big. This all makes no sense. Yeap. It is as if the Sox built a nice house with a solid foundation (young great core), updated everything (rotation pieces), and they completely to replace the roof on the house (the bullpen). This was just my poor analogy of looking at it. Really you couldn't replace a 15 thousand dollar roof (or bring a 9 million dollar arm like Cody Allen) on a 300 thousand dollar house (or a 240 million dollar baseball team) to begin the year? To be fair though, the Sox can say that they won't plan on using young guys in the bullpen and that's fine. Maybe they are planning that one or two arms force the situation kind of like with what Mookie did in 2015. The players could force a promotion to the big leagues with their production in the minor leagues. I'm hoping this is what happens. Heck, I'm hoping they give Lakins a legit shot at breaking camp with the team with the way this bullpen is currently constructed. It absolutely makes no sense to rely on minor league invites. Yes they can cut Thornburg at any point and he should be viewed as a spring training invite on this team right now. Those spring training invites should be bonus guys (meaning a bonus if you get anything out of even one of them). Not guys you look at and say "yeap, these are fine middle relief pieces, let's plan on using one of these to start the year."
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Post by Smittyw on Jan 25, 2019 6:20:58 GMT -5
Woo, that's the most exciting Red Sox news in at least a month. Where are my smelling salts?
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 25, 2019 8:31:52 GMT -5
Less than three weeks from the start of Spring Training and were talking about Shawn Kelley. The funny thing is right now he's a big upgrade and that is the problem. Still two guys like him would go a long way. Yet reports make it sound like we'll be lucky to get one guy.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 25, 2019 9:41:49 GMT -5
The thing that really confuses me are the reports that they have no plans of using young guys. While crazy risky I could almost understand if they planned on Lakins and Shawaryn being a big part of the bullpen. Then Feltman later on and maybe even Hernandez. Yet they plan on filling Kimbrel and Kelly with minor league contract guys? What am I missing? I have to be missing something rather big. This all makes no sense. Yeap. It is as if the Sox built a nice house with a solid foundation (young great core), updated everything (rotation pieces), and they completely to replace the roof on the house (the bullpen). This was just my poor analogy of looking at it. Really you couldn't replace a 15 thousand dollar roof (or bring a 9 million dollar arm like Cody Allen) on a 300 thousand dollar house (or a 240 million dollar baseball team) to begin the year? To be fair though, the Sox can say that they won't plan on using young guys in the bullpen and that's fine. Maybe they are planning that one or two arms force the situation kind of like with what Mookie did in 2015. The players could force a promotion to the big leagues with their production in the minor leagues. I'm hoping this is what happens. Heck, I'm hoping they give Lakins a legit shot at breaking camp with the team with the way this bullpen is currently constructed. It absolutely makes no sense to rely on minor league invites. Yes they can cut Thornburg at any point and he should be viewed as a spring training invite on this team right now. Those spring training invites should be bonus guys (meaning a bonus if you get anything out of even one of them). Not guys you look at and say "yeap, these are fine middle relief pieces, let's plan on using one of these to start the year." Pedro, Eduardo Nunez and Steve Pearce aren't equals offensively. Pearce has actually hit well enough recently to be a 1b and fit in the middle of the order. Nunez is below average offensively, has never played 1b in his life and we can't pretend that 1b defense doesn't matter. If it didn't, Nunez's throw would have skipped past Pearce in the ALDS, but Pearce can handle 1b. Nunez, very unlikely. Truth is dumping Nunez would make more sense, but it would probably be tough to find takers and at the moment he still has some value to the Sox given the uncertainty to Pedroia (not that I'd want him playing 2b often, but Holt can't play every day if Pedroia isn't ready to go) and the fact that Devers hasn't quite blossomed yet (at least in the regular season). But as far as Moreland goes, the Sox do need Pearce. Moreland the past two years has started strong and faded badly. They can't go through 2 or 3 month stretches where he doesn't hit at all. They already have catchers that don't hit. Pearce's presence negates that somewhat. As far as Chavis being ready, he doesn't have a ton of ABs in AAA. Maybe he's ready by July? Maybe not. How is he as a 1b? How experienced is he? Defense matters, even at 1b. The issue isn't Pearce's presence. The Red Sox could spend money right now if they wanted to. If they could dump Leon somehow that might give them about an 8 million cushion before going over the cap (that they really shouldn't be shying away from). They should be able to get a Shawn Kelley type for less than that and still have some bucks left over for July.
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Post by soxcentral on Jan 25, 2019 10:14:14 GMT -5
If you're going to tighten the purse strings on the bullpen, you can get a $6-8 million arm in July for the same cost as signing a $3-4 million arm now. So if we are going to scrape that low maybe it makes sense at this point to let the current group sort itself out, hope to stay in the hunt for the first half, then pull the trigger on an upgrade for the 2nd half that is a higher quality arm.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 25, 2019 10:15:15 GMT -5
If you're going to tighten the purse strings on the bullpen, you can get a $6-8 million arm in July for the same cost as signing a $3-4 million arm now. So if we are going to scrape that low maybe it makes sense at this point to let the current group sort itself out, hope to stay in the hunt for the first half, then pull the trigger on an upgrade for the 2nd half that is a higher quality arm. Except you have to trade at least a semi-valuable prospect to do it then.
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