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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 31, 2019 11:58:43 GMT -5
This is where I'll disagree strongly. 90% plus of those options are forgettable. Many of those names made me laugh. As far as having the nuts for the ninth, I just watched Kelly who was vilified on this site for years go Joe-shutdown on the biggest stage of all, while Kimbrel flirted with disaster and had his bacon saved more than once.
Both Brasier and Barnes also proved out under the klieg lights, so I turn a deaf ear to the notion that they're going into the season with no options whatsoever. Add in the facts that pitching roles are evolving rapidly, once again probably a function of newly available data, and the number of minor league options the Sox have, and I'm a lot more sanguine than many of you.
No doubt that Henry gave Dombrowski marching orders: build the best team you can and stay under that second threshold. They brought back Eovaldi and Pearce at relatively reasonable cost, and they chose relief pitching as the cost center to target for savings. Time will tell if that was a mistake, but the PoBO did as he was told.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 31, 2019 11:58:52 GMT -5
If you're successfully convincing me of anything here, it's that I need to make sure my MLB.TV subscription doesn't renew this year. You do that. The current CBA is a joke and it needs to be addressed. Until it does, people just shouldn't expect anything out of the ordinary. Combination of factors. Their weak spot is rather big and yet had a million rather cheap options to fix it. Fixing it could likely make them tops in predicted wins in the whole league. Hence it would make a big difference. Everyone thinks they reset the tax next year, which means losing a decent amount of talent. So this is your year. It's not like they need an ace that will take a massive long-term commitment. Any team should add players if they can move the needle and are in the Red Sox position. Heck the fact other teams aren't, just means you should do it even more. The only two arguments should be we really don't have the money based on revenue or the move just isn't worth it. Doesn't move the needle versus the cost. I look at the Yankees and their weak spots are rather minor. I look at the Dodgers, same thing. Can you say that about the Red Sox right now? They just won the World Series by beating the living sh*t out of the Dodgers and the Yankees and they did it with Kimbrel being largely terrible. Okay they lost Kelly, but seriously, Joe Kelly is the straw that breaks the camel's back? Losing Joe Kelly kills our chances? Listen I'm not saying not signing a reliever is right here. I'm saying there's a whole culture among owners that is not adequate to the sport. You shouldn't expect one guy to go Rambo and go nuts with their budget. This is a system problem, not a Red Sox problem. All things considered, you can't complain about the Red Sox not spending money when you look at everyone else.
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Post by soxcentral on Jan 31, 2019 12:03:53 GMT -5
Trying to determine why management would leave the current bullpen options in place with a championship team around it, a few thoughts pop to mind:
- Multiple trade options for a reliever are possible and they just need the FA market to shake out.
- They actually truly do believe they have the right people in place, and either we are undervaluing certain people or, of course, they are overvaluing it
- Pressure is being applied to Henry by other owners to not spend past the tax again. He's already the one standing out at the current payroll within his fraternity.
- They're concerned about other areas of the roster that we're not fully aware of (2B?, C?) and are holding on to some cash to address that if it becomes a bigger issue by June.
- They are looking at a much larger trade which would address the bullpen but move one of our expiring contracts (JBJ, Bogaerts).
Not saying any are true, just brainstorming.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 31, 2019 12:11:31 GMT -5
As far as the the 2019 bullpen goes to break camp, I expect the following to make the team-
Barnes Brasier Hembree Johnson Velazquez
Assuming that there's no injuries out of camp (big assumption), I think both Johnson and Velazquez breaks camp to fill the innings of the starting rotation to begin the year. They will probably need both in order to do this and piggyback a lot of starters to begin the year.
That leaves 2-4 spots available. 2 with no injuries, 4 or 5 with injuries. I imagine Colten Brewer has a great chance of getting one of those spots and maybe one of the non roster invites or Workman or hopefully Lakins grabs another spot.
I think Velazquez makes Workman redundant though. Personally I feel even Velazquez is better than Workman at this point. I don't see Workman making the roster.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 31, 2019 12:13:51 GMT -5
If you're successfully convincing me of anything here, it's that I need to make sure my MLB.TV subscription doesn't renew this year. You do that. The current CBA is a joke and it needs to be addressed. Until it does, people just shouldn't expect anything out of the ordinary.You'll be shocked to learn that I frequently raise strong objections to the expected behaviors of individuals and institutions.
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 31, 2019 12:19:19 GMT -5
You'll be shocked to learn that I frequently raise strong objections to the expected behaviors of individuals and institutions. I respect that, I try to do that too. But sometimes it's a lost cause, it's not an individual problem here but rather a whole set of them. This is a "when can we expect a new CBA" deal and that's what we need to look forward to.
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Post by dcb26 on Jan 31, 2019 13:22:44 GMT -5
We just went through a season where: - The bullpen was a big concern going into and early in the year
- We *had* to get a trade deadline bullpen upgrade
- We didn't get a trade deadline bullpen upgrade
- Craig Kimbrel was seen as the only reliable reliever on the team going into the playoffs
- Craig Kimbrel was awful in the playoffs
- The rest of the bullpen was dominant in the playoffs
- The best reliever in the playoffs was a guy most people felt should have been left off the playoff roster
- We won the World Series
Every single year: - People complain about the quality of our high(er) priced relievers
- People note how volatile relievers are and how many of the best relievers each year come out of nowhere
- People wonder why we can't try to find the "diamond in the rough" types like other teams
This Year: - We went out and tried to find guys who could be that "diamond in the rough"
- There are likely fewer spots than usual for late-inning relievers due to a need for additional long-reliever/swingman types
- We appear to be sticking to valuations for players and not potentially undermining our future ability to make moves by being rash now (has any sports team in the last 15 years said "you know what we should do? Operate less like the Patriots!" ?)
Seriously, someone (rationally) explain to me why we need to throw a bunch of money at this? I mean, I get it in the sense that I would love to have more dominant bullpen options too, but in the same way that I would love to sign Mike Trout and keep Mookie Betts. Honestly the only reasons to be upset I can see are: "The Sox budget needs to be higher than whatever they actually spend, no matter how much that is" or "I thought early in the offseason they were going to sign more relievers but that didn't happen so now I'm angry." Again, in a vacuum, sure, more better relievers is good, but I see no reason to be confident enough in the guys that were out there to believe they will be worth their contracts and/or that they are better than what we already have.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 31, 2019 13:33:57 GMT -5
Seriously, someone (rationally) explain to me why we need to throw a bunch of money at this? I mean, I get it in the sense that I would love to have more dominant bullpen options too, but in the same way that I would love to sign Mike Trout and keep Mookie Betts. Honestly the only reasons to be upset I can see are: "The Sox budget needs to be higher than whatever they actually spend, no matter how much that is" or "I thought early in the offseason they were going to sign more relievers but that didn't happen so now I'm angry." Again, in a vacuum, sure, more better relievers is good, but I see no reason to be confident enough in the guys that were out there to believe they will be worth their contracts and/or that they are better than what we already have. I mean, there is a difference between not signing a reliever to a multi year deal to clog up payroll in order to resign Betts and then not spending at all for a proven reliever like a Cody Allen who only got signed for one year at 9 million. The bullpen was a weakness last year. The Sox filled that with depth last year during the regular season. Once again though, the starters were coming out of the bullpen in virtually every game in the playoffs. David Price pitched every other game after the Yankee series. Porcello and Eovaldi were doing the same thing. The Sox seemingly didn't even seemingly attempt to acquire quality depth to replace even a little of what they once had, and that's what people are ticked off about. The owner is drawing a line in the sand for even one year deals. If you want to point to last year as a example, then I'm going to go ahead and say "everything went right for the 2018 Boston Red Sox." They were extremely talented throughout and had every possible outcome go right for them. 2019 may be WAY different though.
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Post by dcb26 on Jan 31, 2019 13:56:00 GMT -5
I mean, there is a difference between not signing a reliever to a multi year deal to clog up payroll in order to resign Betts and then not spending at all for a proven reliever like a Cody Allen who only got signed for one year at 9 million. I can understand this point, especially if you don't believe budget should be any obstacle in 2019 - but even then Allen is probably the best of the one-year-deal guys, and is he even any better than Hembree or Brewer or at this point? I guess probably a little, but I don't know that I'd bet on it, and I certainly question whether the upgrade is worth 9 million even if there isn't a set budget.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 31, 2019 14:23:56 GMT -5
I mean, there is a difference between not signing a reliever to a multi year deal to clog up payroll in order to resign Betts and then not spending at all for a proven reliever like a Cody Allen who only got signed for one year at 9 million. I can understand this point, especially if you don't believe budget should be any obstacle in 2019 - but even then Allen is probably the best of the one-year-deal guys, and is he even any better than Hembree or Brewer or at this point? I guess probably a little, but I don't know that I'd bet on it, and I certainly question whether the upgrade is worth 9 million even if there isn't a set budget. Allen has been a 1.5-2 bWAR pitcher every year (except for last year) since 2013, Heath Hembree has been a one half win bWAR pitcher right since 2015. So yes he's been 1-2 wins better than Hembree in his career for the most part. The thing is you shouldn't be asking if he's better than Hembree and Brewer, you should be ADDING on top of Hembree and Brewer. Even if the budget is a obstacle, he was added to a roster for one year and 9 MILLION DOLLARS. Think about how insignificant that is to a big payroll team like the Sox. I'm kind of ticked off that I argued about adding Pearce all off-season because of the payroll situation personally. They should have added both with no problems. I know how John Henry is. I studied him for years. He's probably grinding his teeth right now knowing he's the biggest spending team in baseball right now. He's a good owner but he definitely has his warts like this one.
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Post by orion09 on Jan 31, 2019 15:01:03 GMT -5
I can understand this point, especially if you don't believe budget should be any obstacle in 2019 - but even then Allen is probably the best of the one-year-deal guys, and is he even any better than Hembree or Brewer or at this point? I guess probably a little, but I don't know that I'd bet on it, and I certainly question whether the upgrade is worth 9 million even if there isn't a set budget. Allen has been a 1.5-2 bWAR pitcher every year (except for last year) since 2013, Heath Hembree has been a one half win bWAR pitcher right since 2015. So yes he's been 1-2 wins better than Hembree in his career for the most part. The thing is you shouldn't be asking if he's better than Hembree and Brewer, you should be ADDING on top of Hembree and Brewer. Yeah, it’s really about depth. I feel good about Barnes and Brasier, but it’s inevitable that one of them will get hurt/worn down/be ineffective for at least 4-6 weeks at some point. When that happens, the high leverage options are gonna look reaaal slim. I think it’s self-evident that they’ll need a third high-leverage arm during the course of the season. Right now, they’re playing a numbers game, gambling that one of Brewer/Thornburg/Mejia/Lakins/Feltman/etc will emerge as that guy. It seems clear that Cora is at least partially responsible for this strategy, which is why I actually feel OK about it. He’s got a strong idea of what he wants to do. I bet that if Farrell was still manager, DD would have signed a Robertson-type guy, maybe even over Eovaldi.
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Post by manfred on Jan 31, 2019 15:20:50 GMT -5
Allen has been a 1.5-2 bWAR pitcher every year (except for last year) since 2013, Heath Hembree has been a one half win bWAR pitcher right since 2015. So yes he's been 1-2 wins better than Hembree in his career for the most part. The thing is you shouldn't be asking if he's better than Hembree and Brewer, you should be ADDING on top of Hembree and Brewer. Yeah, it’s really about depth. I feel good about Barnes and Brasier, but it’s inevitable that one of them will get hurt/worn down/be ineffective for at least 4-6 weeks at some point. When that happens, the high leverage options are gonna look reaaal slim. I think it’s self-evident that they’ll need a third high-leverage arm during the course of the season. Right now, they’re playing a numbers game, gambling that one of Brewer/Thornburg/Mejia/Lakins/Feltman/etc will emerge as that guy. It seems clear that Cora is at least partially responsible for this strategy, which is why I actually feel OK about it. He’s got a strong idea of what he wants to do. I bet that if Farrell was still manager, DD would have signed a Robertson-type guy, maybe even over Eovaldi. On the other hand.... If we think of the Kelly--> Barnes --> Kimbrel line from last season, you are looking at 3.9 bWAR. You make it Hembree--> Brasier--> Barnes? 3.1 bWAR. This without any breakout performances from the remaining x-factors like Thornburg. So the case can be made (strictly analytically) that the dropoff is actually negligible. So depth or no, I do think it is fair to ask if it is worth spending, say $9 million to try to make up for those .8 bWAR? (And Allen, that $9 million man, was literally a 0 bWAR pitcher last year.... hardly a guarantee to close the gap). I suppose my feeling on this matter is -- this team won 108 games last year, and they remain essentially the same team with a little shifting. A full season on Eovaldi, and no proven closer. Overall, I remain pretty confident. No one can say they don't have a plan -- you might not agree with it, but they clearly are working off a roadmap.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 31, 2019 15:45:00 GMT -5
Yeah, it’s really about depth. I feel good about Barnes and Brasier, but it’s inevitable that one of them will get hurt/worn down/be ineffective for at least 4-6 weeks at some point. When that happens, the high leverage options are gonna look reaaal slim. I think it’s self-evident that they’ll need a third high-leverage arm during the course of the season. Right now, they’re playing a numbers game, gambling that one of Brewer/Thornburg/Mejia/Lakins/Feltman/etc will emerge as that guy. It seems clear that Cora is at least partially responsible for this strategy, which is why I actually feel OK about it. He’s got a strong idea of what he wants to do. I bet that if Farrell was still manager, DD would have signed a Robertson-type guy, maybe even over Eovaldi. On the other hand.... If we think of the Kelly--> Barnes --> Kimbrel line from last season, you are looking at 3.9 bWAR. You make it Hembree--> Brasier--> Barnes? 3.1 bWAR. This without any breakout performances from the remaining x-factors like Thornburg. So the case can be made (strictly analytically) that the dropoff is actually negligible. So depth or no, I do think it is fair to ask if it is worth spending, say $9 million to try to make up for those .8 bWAR? (And Allen, that $9 million man, was literally a 0 bWAR pitcher last year.... hardly a guarantee to close the gap). I suppose my feeling on this matter is -- this team won 108 games last year, and they remain essentially the same team with a little shifting. A full season on Eovaldi, and no proven closer. Overall, I remain pretty confident. No one can say they don't have a plan -- you might not agree with it, but they clearly are working off a roadmap. Brasier and Hembree were worth another 2.3 bWAR on top of Kimbrel/Barnes/Kelly last year. So you've gone from 6.2 bWAR from those top five to 3.1 for Barnes/Brasier/Hembree, and another 3.1 to be made up by... Thornburg and Workman? And that's assuming to dropoff by Brasier, who was outstanding last year but doesn't really have much in the way of a performance history.
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Post by dcb26 on Jan 31, 2019 15:46:50 GMT -5
Yeah, it’s really about depth. I feel good about Barnes and Brasier, but it’s inevitable that one of them will get hurt/worn down/be ineffective for at least 4-6 weeks at some point. When that happens, the high leverage options are gonna look reaaal slim. I think it’s self-evident that they’ll need a third high-leverage arm during the course of the season. Right now, they’re playing a numbers game, gambling that one of Brewer/Thornburg/Mejia/Lakins/Feltman/etc will emerge as that guy. I think this is a fair concern, it's one I share too. However, in order for Allen (or similar acquisition) to have been the right move, he has to be better than all or all but one of all of the following: the possible bounce-back guys (Thornburg, Workman, Smith), the offseason buy-low possibilities (Brewer, Tapia, Schlereth, Ramirez, Mejia), the young up-and-comers (Lakins, Hernandez, Shawaryn, Feltman, possibly Houck), a possible breakout from one of the older AAA/AAAA guys (Poyner, Walden, Smith, Taylor, Shepherd, Gorst), and Wright whenever he is back healthy. I don't love Steamer, but they project Allen at .4 WAR next year. That is higher than every single player listed above, but with that many guys, the odds that none or only one of them is better than an aging reliever with declining stuff coming off a very poor year? I don't see it, personally. To the idea that Allen or a similar contract would have been a negligible expense: even if you think 1/9 is a bargain, he needs to be enough better than all of those others to be worth 1/25th of their roster spots and approximately 1/25th of their payroll (roughly what it works out to) to be worth adding. If the Sox don't see it that way, then regardless of how free people think the Sox should be with their money, no successful business in the world will just arbitrarily throw around 9 million like it's candy - they may be perfectly willing to spend it, but not without reason. Further, this could hamper their ability to add someone at the deadline (depending on your thoughts about budget etc.) if Allen didn't work out. This isn't all about Allen, it's totally reasonable to believe he would have been a useful piece in the bullpen, even if I'm personally not so sure. As it pertains to the Sox' overall approach this offseason though, I don't think there were many other relievers out there who have even the same likelihood as Allen to have a good year and would be available for similar years/dollars, and there's never any guarantee of getting any one specific guy. Again, the concerns are legitimate, but when you look at what was out there and what the Sox have, it just seems pretty far-fetched to be as up in arms as many people here are. Anyway, that's all I've got on the subject, I am legitimately curious to see how it all plays out.
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Post by manfred on Jan 31, 2019 16:01:56 GMT -5
On the other hand.... If we think of the Kelly--> Barnes --> Kimbrel line from last season, you are looking at 3.9 bWAR. You make it Hembree--> Brasier--> Barnes? 3.1 bWAR. This without any breakout performances from the remaining x-factors like Thornburg. So the case can be made (strictly analytically) that the dropoff is actually negligible. So depth or no, I do think it is fair to ask if it is worth spending, say $9 million to try to make up for those .8 bWAR? (And Allen, that $9 million man, was literally a 0 bWAR pitcher last year.... hardly a guarantee to close the gap). I suppose my feeling on this matter is -- this team won 108 games last year, and they remain essentially the same team with a little shifting. A full season on Eovaldi, and no proven closer. Overall, I remain pretty confident. No one can say they don't have a plan -- you might not agree with it, but they clearly are working off a roadmap. Brasier and Hembree were worth another 2.3 bWAR on top of Kimbrel/Barnes/Kelly last year. So you've gone from 6.2 bWAR from those top five to 3.1 for Barnes/Brasier/Hembree, and another 3.1 to be made up by... Thornburg and Workman? And that's assuming to dropoff by Brasier, who was outstanding last year but doesn't really have much in the way of a performance history. Ok. But Kelly was .5 of that. So let’s posit we can squeeze that out of Thornburg. We are back to Kimbrel, though we’ve shifted his absence down to a fifth reliever (what I mean is, the top-3-4 can be about as productive, but last year might have gone one arm deeper). The question is what is that fifth arm worth? All things being equal, I’d like to have Kimbrel. But I don’t much want to pay millions to close the gap between these respective bullpen depth charts, especially with Lakins, Feltman, Brewer, PED guy, etc. in the wings and under contract.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 31, 2019 18:31:07 GMT -5
If you're successfully convincing me of anything here, it's that I need to make sure my MLB.TV subscription doesn't renew this year. You do that. The current CBA is a joke and it needs to be addressed. Until it does, people just shouldn't expect anything out of the ordinary. Combination of factors. Their weak spot is rather big and yet had a million rather cheap options to fix it. Fixing it could likely make them tops in predicted wins in the whole league. Hence it would make a big difference. Everyone thinks they reset the tax next year, which means losing a decent amount of talent. So this is your year. It's not like they need an ace that will take a massive long-term commitment. Any team should add players if they can move the needle and are in the Red Sox position. Heck the fact other teams aren't, just means you should do it even more. The only two arguments should be we really don't have the money based on revenue or the move just isn't worth it. Doesn't move the needle versus the cost. I look at the Yankees and their weak spots are rather minor. I look at the Dodgers, same thing. Can you say that about the Red Sox right now? They just won the World Series by beating the living sh*t out of the Dodgers and the Yankees and they did it with Kimbrel being largely terrible. Okay they lost Kelly, but seriously, Joe Kelly is the straw that breaks the camel's back? Losing Joe Kelly kills our chances? Listen I'm not saying not signing a reliever is right here. I'm saying there's a whole culture among owners that is not adequate to the sport. You shouldn't expect one guy to go Rambo and go nuts with their budget. This is a system problem, not a Red Sox problem. All things considered, you can't complain about the Red Sox not spending money when you look at everyone else. You lost 2.8 bwar from the regular season from those two guys, not easy to replace. Kimbrel might have sucked in the playoffs but he didn't suck all year. You also lost Kelly who was probably worth a 1 bwar in the playoffs alone. Those guys had long stretches of being dominant. Can you rather easily replace Kelly's .5 bwar? Sure, but Kimbrels 2.3 bwar isn't easy to replace.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 31, 2019 18:38:56 GMT -5
We just went through a season where: - The bullpen was a big concern going into and early in the year
- We *had* to get a trade deadline bullpen upgrade
- We didn't get a trade deadline bullpen upgrade
- Craig Kimbrel was seen as the only reliable reliever on the team going into the playoffs
- Craig Kimbrel was awful in the playoffs
- The rest of the bullpen was dominant in the playoffs
- The best reliever in the playoffs was a guy most people felt should have been left off the playoff roster
- We won the World Series
... You're just trying to snow us with facts, here, aren't you? As for Brasier and his worth: pro-rate his 1.5 WAR (bRef) over 60 games, then knock it down by a quarter and he projects to 2 wins (incidentally here's a nice story about the Wichita homeboy). He is, by the way, the pitcher that Steamer projects as the closer with 65 games and 34 saves. We can play this game all day. It's just as valid as the idea that Kimbrel would become the favorite of heart surgeons, or that Kelly would ascend to near godhood. The only Kimbrel replacement is Kimbrel himself (pre-playoff). I was hoping for a useful addition but, taking Dombrowski at his word, that's unlikely. They still may add pieces but they won't be very big pieces. But it turns out the good pieces can be found in a lot of places if you know where to look. Which leads us to a rhetorical question... Where the hell do closers come from? How about these guys, the top five relievers by FanGraphs (I'll duck out of the room to avoid flying fruit after I post this):
| Team
| Games
| Innings
| FIP
| xFIP
| WAR
| Blake Treinen | Athletics
| 68 | 80 1/3
| 1.82
| 2.42
| 3.6 | Edwin Diaz
| Mariners | 73 | 73 1/3
| 1.61
| 1.78
| 3.5 | Josh Hader
| Brewers
| 55 | 81 1/3
| 2.23
| 2.05
| 2.7 | Jose Leclerc
| Rangers | 59 | 57 2/3
| 1.90 | 3.10
| 2.5 | Craig Stammen
| Padres | 73 | 79 | 2.19 | 2.97
| 2.3 |
Hader bounced around the Orioles', Astros' and Brewers' farm system, before miraculously emerging two years ago. Last year he nearly doubled his K rate and cut his FIP to a third of what it was two years ago when he was in Triple A!. Diaz and Leclerc are young guys who were promoted to the role, Stammen is an old-timer, a converted starter who has been all over the baseball map geographically, and performance-wise. Last year was a good one.
Treinen is the most interesting. He had a decent, not great, career with the Nationals before coming back home to the team that originally drafted him. He was traded for Sean Doolittle and Ryan Madson. Oakland does their voodoo and the guy drops the H/9 to less than half (11.5 to 5.2) and increases his K/9 rate to more than 11 compared to his last go-round with Washington! The As do.. this... all.... the..... time.
On that list Chapman is tenth, Kimbrel 22nd, by the way. We need to stop creating some sort of false narrative about these guys, in my opinion. If you know what you're looking for and how to mine it there's value. It is a crapshoot, that's just the way relief pitching is. And as Fenway points out, the more warm bodies the better. But these aren't resources that can't be developed or rehabilitated, that's just not true. It happens a lot.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 31, 2019 18:41:48 GMT -5
As we know, Dombrowski’s MO in the past has been to identify the FA he wants and then pay what it takes to secure his services. Now, I truly hope that is what is going on with Kimbrel. Because if it’s not, this is just pure foolishness not signing a replacement closer. This is a 242 million dollar team poised to repeat. And we are auditioning for a closer? Why take such unnecessary risk? Over a draft position or a few extra dollars? This is just not the year to worry about that. It's just a few extra dollars to you. But to the owner apparently it isn't. This is true. Henry is calling the shots here.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 31, 2019 18:55:32 GMT -5
it is kind of funny when a majority of folks are confident with Barnes. I was pimping him for years because of his stuff and wanting to be patient and I don't remember many others around here doing the same, he was driving most people crazy.
Then I gave up on the guy (i think it was early last year) and he came back decently and pitched well in playoffs (was hurt IIRC in September).
I guess what I am saying is, if you think Barnes can close, are you really gonna walk the plank with that guy as your guide ?
Risky.....very risky !!!
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jan 31, 2019 19:41:10 GMT -5
it is kind of funny when a majority of folks are confident with Barnes. I was pimping him for years because of his stuff and wanting to be patient and I don't remember many others around here doing the same, he was driving most people crazy. Then I gave up on the guy (i think it was early last year) and he came back decently and pitched well in playoffs (was hurt IIRC in September). I guess what I am saying is, if you think Barnes can close, are you really gonna walk the plank with that guy as your guide ? Risky.....very risky !!! Lol awesome post Jerry. Yeah he gets wild with the command a ton.
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Post by manfred on Jan 31, 2019 19:55:28 GMT -5
it is kind of funny when a majority of folks are confident with Barnes. I was pimping him for years because of his stuff and wanting to be patient and I don't remember many others around here doing the same, he was driving most people crazy. Then I gave up on the guy (i think it was early last year) and he came back decently and pitched well in playoffs (was hurt IIRC in September). I guess what I am saying is, if you think Barnes can close, are you really gonna walk the plank with that guy as your guide ? Risky.....very risky !!! I don’t actually have a ton of faith, but it isn’t something I look at in isolation. I have no-to-little more faith in Allen, who is not what he was, and I certainly don’t see the marginal improvement worth $9 million. To get a big jump, the Sox would have to get a guy like Britton or, well, Kimbrel. But is the difference worth multiple years of high salary? I doubt it. But yeah... I’ll be bitching by late April. Take that to the bank.
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Post by Canseco on Jan 31, 2019 20:04:12 GMT -5
As spring training develops and team needs/injuries surface, I wonder if DD would be able to flip Nuñez and/or León for an okay relief arm. If nothing else, it would open up some payroll for a potential in-season move.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 31, 2019 20:27:48 GMT -5
it is kind of funny when a majority of folks are confident with Barnes. I was pimping him for years because of his stuff and wanting to be patient and I don't remember many others around here doing the same, he was driving most people crazy. Then I gave up on the guy (i think it was early last year) and he came back decently and pitched well in playoffs (was hurt IIRC in September). I guess what I am saying is, if you think Barnes can close, are you really gonna walk the plank with that guy as your guide ? Risky.....very risky !!! Lol awesome post Jerry. Yeah he gets wild with the command a ton. Brother !! Not to long until Pitchers and catchers. Getting ready for another great season following the boys. Glad we are on the same side !
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jan 31, 2019 20:28:47 GMT -5
it is kind of funny when a majority of folks are confident with Barnes. I was pimping him for years because of his stuff and wanting to be patient and I don't remember many others around here doing the same, he was driving most people crazy. Then I gave up on the guy (i think it was early last year) and he came back decently and pitched well in playoffs (was hurt IIRC in September). I guess what I am saying is, if you think Barnes can close, are you really gonna walk the plank with that guy as your guide ? Risky.....very risky !!! I don’t actually have a ton of faith, but it isn’t something I look at in isolation. I have no-to-little more faith in Allen, who is not what he was, and I certainly don’t see the marginal improvement worth $9 million. To get a big jump, the Sox would have to get a guy like Britton or, well, Kimbrel. But is the difference worth multiple years of high salary? I doubt it. But yeah... I’ll be bitching by late April. Take that to the bank. But you love Devers, and therefore you can bitch all you want, I don't care !!!
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Post by manfred on Jan 31, 2019 23:06:28 GMT -5
I don’t actually have a ton of faith, but it isn’t something I look at in isolation. I have no-to-little more faith in Allen, who is not what he was, and I certainly don’t see the marginal improvement worth $9 million. To get a big jump, the Sox would have to get a guy like Britton or, well, Kimbrel. But is the difference worth multiple years of high salary? I doubt it. But yeah... I’ll be bitching by late April. Take that to the bank. But you love Devers, and therefore you can bitch all you want, I don't care !!! He might be closing by July... and I believe in him!
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