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Jim Buchanan and Great Stuff: Joe Kelly appreciation thread
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 13, 2018 7:13:43 GMT -5
3 years, $25M. Reported by many.
Goodbye, sweet Jim.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Dec 13, 2018 7:17:47 GMT -5
Good for him. Excellent playoff run and MFY brawl solidifies his place in Sox lore.
All labor deserves to get paid as much as they can. Good Luck.
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 13, 2018 7:20:57 GMT -5
Thanks Joe Kelly. Good luck in La. I don’t care either way because he can drive you crazy too over the years. To me just grab a closer I believe in our young bullpen arms. You can’t just spend ,spend and spend.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 13, 2018 8:02:46 GMT -5
3 years, $25M. Reported by many. Goodbye, sweet Jim. Oh no!! Say it ain't so! I had a gut feeling that he had arrived based on reports of adjustments to his repertoire and the lights out results in the playoffs. He was the Sox pitching answer to JBJ..sailing b/t unbelievably good or mysteriously bad but seemingly having finally landed on the shores of his 'promise' land via coaching, analytics etc. I hope the hell he is a stud for L.A. I really liked the guy and will miss him. My gut rumblings are that we all will.
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Post by unitspin on Dec 13, 2018 8:20:05 GMT -5
Lol so happy to see him with another team imagine paying him 8+ a year to give you league average numbers no thanks we have heath hembree for that. The thing is hembree makes under a mil.
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Post by sarasoxer on Dec 13, 2018 8:27:47 GMT -5
He might have produced league average stats this year but I think we know Hembree and he is no Hembree. When harnessed, Kelly's stuff is leagues above. Maybe I'm disoriented breathing in his high octane, but I think that he has finally found himself.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 13, 2018 8:42:16 GMT -5
Not sure how to feel about seeing him go. If the adjustments made during the playoff run were things he can continue to harness, this could be a great deal for the Dodgers. On the other hand this wouldn't be the first time he put it together for a stretch only to revert back into one of the most frustrating relievers that I can remember so there is definitely some risk as well. I wish him all the best going forward and will always remember him for his clutch pitching in the playoffs this past year though and also seeming like a fun loving guy that was easy to root for.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 13, 2018 9:09:10 GMT -5
Thank you for the World Series run. Good luck in LA.
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Post by jamesmcgillstatue on Dec 13, 2018 9:13:00 GMT -5
I'm glad he's in the National League; Dodgers are at Fenway July 12-14 and I hope he gets his standing O. That said, I hope the Sox catch him when he's having trouble commanding his breaking stuff.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 13, 2018 9:35:22 GMT -5
It's funny.
For the past four years I couldn't wait for Joe Kelly's Jekyll and Hyde tenure with the Red Sox to come to and end, and of course now that it does, I wish he'd come back to the Red Sox.
I know Kelly has his good streaks/bad streaks and it's dangerous and often foolish to look at small sample sizes and run with them.
That said, by time the post-season ended, I was convinced that the Red Sox had indeed "fixed" him. His stuff has always been electric, but it was dominating at the most important time a year, a time when nerves can take over, it actually seemed to elevate his game.
The reason why I think they fixed him was the K/BB ratio of 13-0. When Kelly was going well in the past he'd still walk guys and work around the walks. This wasn't what was happening. He was getting swings and misses and spotting his changed breaking ball. The Sox also figured out how he was tipping his pitches.
I think Joe Kelly will give the Dodgers plenty of value at his contract. I thought he might get 3 years $27 million, but instead is getting 25 million making me wonder if/why the Sox offer wasn't close as I thought if it was he'd be back.
If the Sox think Kelly is a stud going forward and they can't come up with $25 million over 3 years, that tells me forget thinking about Ottavino or even Robertson or just about anybody. The Sox will wind up waiting for reliever musical chairs to settle down and see if they can get a bargain.
Guess at this point, I'll just have to remember Joe Kelly fondly. He earned it by saving his best for last.
And in a cool irony he pitched a key dominant 8th in the clinching game of the 2018 World Series. The man he was dealt for, John Lackey gave the Sox 7 strong innings in the clinching game of the 2013 World Series. I hated the Lackey/Kelly and Craig deal when it occurred and for a long time after. This past October was the only time that I loved the deal and didn't hate it.
Good luck Joe Kelly. Wish you would have/could have stayed.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 13, 2018 9:37:21 GMT -5
Loved Kelly as a person, but his inconsistency made him frustrating as a player. He was a fun presence for fans and seemed like a terrific teammate, and overall, I'm happy for him and OK with his departure. He's a California guy and goes home to another good team.
I was one of the folks who questioned whether he should even be on the playoff roster, and no matter how well he pitched in the playoffs -- by the end of which he looked elite -- that's not a guy I'm going to pout too much about not spending $25M on to retain. I hope he kills it on LA setting up Kenley, but I'd prefer the Sox grab a more stable option, a la David Robertson, to replace Kelly's spot.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 13, 2018 9:51:40 GMT -5
Yeap good luck in LA Kelly, won't miss you driving me nuts with your performance though.
At least his little daughter is probably set for life with this contract though.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 13, 2018 10:03:24 GMT -5
I think he's going to be a bargain, unless the Dodgers are stupid enough to let him continue to tinker with his pitch mix, something he did continuously. The change he made late in the year should be a keeper.
I do recall that before the playoff run, there was a lot of talk about him being a West Coast guy and wanting to go back there.
I always loved him because he provided so much puzzling data to analyze.
I hope this means the Sox are getting either Robertson or Ottavino, and if so, I think it means that they're adding only one major arm. For a second guy, they'll wait till the market has played out and take a flyer on whoever they like best.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 13, 2018 10:13:50 GMT -5
Joe friggin Kelly. A mystery wrapped in an enigma, swaddled in post-season glory, and now with cash stuffed into whatever pockets those garments have.
I was honestly hoping that between he and Kimbrel, he'd be the one returning. The stuff that emerges from such a rubber-armed slip of a guy is just amazing. Watching him walk off the mound after another shutdown outing in the playoffs, absolutely in control, will always be one of my highlights for 2018.
I have no idea if he can sustain it: the better concealment; the improved curve/slider/slurve; the attitude. But hey, Hatfield has it nailed. Get it while the gettin' is good. This past season, it was very good.
Joe friggin Kelly!
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 13, 2018 11:00:03 GMT -5
I was going to start complaining about how we watched Kelly for 4 years and it's frustrating that he finally figured it all out at the very end, but the very end was so glorious, I have nothing to complain about. Kelly is one of my favorite people who ever played for the Red Sox. I will miss him.
Ya know, this might be the most likeable Red Sox team ever. I hate they can't keep them all together for a long time.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 13, 2018 11:08:22 GMT -5
My 6 year old will be disappointed when I break the news to him. JBJ and Joe Kelly are his two favorite players or at least the two names he recognizes and knows.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Dec 13, 2018 11:13:03 GMT -5
Couldn’t have asked for a better way to go out, and I’m glad he got a big contract while he could. He’ll always have love in Boston. I hope he carries his postseason success throughout this year.
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Post by unitspin on Dec 13, 2018 11:18:56 GMT -5
Well if joe Kelly is worth 27mil over three years. Then Kimbrel is worth 17 at least 3-4 years. I know he pitched good for the playoffs but unlike Evoaldi he pitched like junk in the regular season. Joe Kelly is what he is shows you some flash and then tapers off just as fast as he is dominant. If I'm spending 8+ on a rp its going to be miller or Robertson. Guys that have proved they can do it consitantly.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 13, 2018 13:05:33 GMT -5
Well if joe Kelly is worth 27mil over three years. Then Kimbrel is worth 17 at least 3-4 years. I know he pitched good for the playoffs but unlike Evoaldi he pitched like junk in the regular season. Joe Kelly is what he is shows you some flash and then tapers off just as fast as he is dominant. If I'm spending 8+ on a rp its going to be miller or Robertson. Guys that have proved they can do it consitantly. He also has a real chance to be better than anyone else that is signed this offseason. That's why he's so hard to gauge. He significantly changed his pitch mix at the end of last season and figured out and corrected the fact that he was tipping all of his pitches. I really think the Dodgers will keep him doing what he was doing because they are not a dumb team.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 13, 2018 13:19:07 GMT -5
Just my two cents, but the Red Sox know Kelly better than anyone. If they thought the chances were good that Kelly could be that same pitcher he was in the playoffs over a full season they would easily have resigned him. Playoff Joe Kelly was worth 18 million per easily. Yet we've seen it over and over and over again with him. He's great for stretches and horrible for stretches. Congrats on the contract, thank you for the playoffs, enjoy LA, but I'm not upset to see him leave.
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Post by James Dunne on Dec 13, 2018 13:23:40 GMT -5
Did you know that Joe Kelly has GREAT STUFF? I'm sure you did, because we heard it for 4 1/2 years, which included about four months of stupendous pitching surrounded by frustrating mediocrity.
Joe Kelly had a month like that every season, where everyone said "wow, I think these changes have stuck and he's finally tapped into that Great Stuff." And then... it never did hold. He turned back into Joe Kelly every time. Maybe one time he will sustain it, maybe THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT, but I agree with not paying to find out.
I gave Joe Kelly a lot of grief over the years, but like Matt said above, he's always seemed like a good guy and a good teammate. He's a great interview, a very thoughtful guy, and I'll be rooting for him, even if he drove me insane. I'm thrilled that one of his stretches of good pitching came at such an opportune time. As opposed to his end-of-2015 stretch on a last place team, which did nothing but trick the Red Sox into letting him start again in 2016, to the detriment of the team and Kelly.
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Post by unitspin on Dec 13, 2018 13:39:48 GMT -5
Joe Kelly is in the NL that should help his numbers a decent amount. He might be worth 8+ in the NL he is not worth that in the AL east though. Kimbrel has proved himself against the best while here so if I was a NL gm I would be drooling over him maybe at 4 years its that demand of 6 years that might make his market tough. Kimbrel is the start of the red sox ultimately deciding which player to value and not. And next off-season we will see that happen with a few more vaulable players.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 13, 2018 14:09:33 GMT -5
Did you know that Joe Kelly has GREAT STUFF? I'm sure you did, because we heard it for 4 1/2 years, which included about four months of stupendous pitching surrounded by frustrating mediocrity. Joe Kelly had a month like that every season, where everyone said "wow, I think these changes have stuck and he's finally tapped into that Great Stuff." And then... it never did hold. He turned back into Joe Kelly every time. Maybe one time he will sustain it, maybe THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT, but I agree with not paying to find out. I gave Joe Kelly a lot of grief over the years, but like Matt said above, he's always seemed like a good guy and a good teammate. He's a great interview, a very thoughtful guy, and I'll be rooting for him, even if he drove me insane. I'm thrilled that one of his stretches of good pitching came at such an opportune time. As opposed to his end-of-2015 stretch on a last place team, which did nothing but trick the Red Sox into letting him start again in 2016, to the detriment of the team and Kelly. He was streaky as you say and had similar stretches of dominance, but I don't remember him ever going 10 plus innings or whatever it was with NO walks. Like ever. He was always walking guys and he'd pitch around it, but in the post-season he wasn't even walking guys, which is so unlike him. Maybe it's a coincidence, and maybe, I'm gullible - just call me McFly - but I truly think the Sox figured out his issues and set him on the right path, and that it's something he can take with him to LA. The only thing I worry about with him is that in listening to him, he likes to pitch whenever. He doesn't like scripted roles or at least that's how I interpreted. The Dodgers FO scripts EVERYTHING. I don't know if that approach will play well with him. It's obvious he's their 8th inning guy and will probably be used as such.
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Post by jiant2520 on Dec 13, 2018 14:20:13 GMT -5
Thank you for the run Joe. I appreciate what you gave us. Enjoy LA.
He is replaceable at 8 mil plus per year. Lots of guys can pitch to a 4 plus ERA. Perhaps they'll achieve it differently, but others can get the job done.
Robertson and Ottavino are my next choices... though it will cost more than 8 plus to get either....
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 13, 2018 14:21:08 GMT -5
Did you know that Joe Kelly has GREAT STUFF? I'm sure you did, because we heard it for 4 1/2 years, which included about four months of stupendous pitching surrounded by frustrating mediocrity. Joe Kelly had a month like that every season, where everyone said "wow, I think these changes have stuck and he's finally tapped into that Great Stuff." And then... it never did hold. He turned back into Joe Kelly every time. Maybe one time he will sustain it, maybe THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT, but I agree with not paying to find out. I gave Joe Kelly a lot of grief over the years, but like Matt said above, he's always seemed like a good guy and a good teammate. He's a great interview, a very thoughtful guy, and I'll be rooting for him, even if he drove me insane. I'm thrilled that one of his stretches of good pitching came at such an opportune time. As opposed to his end-of-2015 stretch on a last place team, which did nothing but trick the Red Sox into letting him start again in 2016, to the detriment of the team and Kelly. He was streaky as you say and had similar stretches of dominance, but I don't remember him ever going 10 plus innings or whatever it was with NO walks. Like ever. He was always walking guys and he'd pitch around it, but in the post-season he wasn't even walking guys, which is so unlike him. Maybe it's a coincidence, and maybe, I'm gullible - just call me McFly - but I truly think the Sox figured out his issues and set him on the right path, and that it's something he can take with him to LA. The only thing I worry about with him is that in listening to him, he likes to pitch whenever. He doesn't like scripted roles or at least that's how I interpreted. The Dodgers FO scripts EVERYTHING. I don't know if that approach will play well with him. It's obvious he's their 8th inning guy and will probably be used as such. www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=kellyjo05&t=p&year=2018I thought the same exact thing, I've never seen Kelly not walk anyone. Yet April 10th to May 5th 11 innings zero walks, heck April 1st through May 5th 14 innings 1 walk. Not only had he done it, he did it this year.
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