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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 28, 2018 15:11:04 GMT -5
Wait so what are we talking about? We went from "the offseason is too slow" to "baseball is dying" in like a dozen posts.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2018 15:14:18 GMT -5
Wait so what are we talking about? We went from "the offseason is too slow" to "baseball is dying" in like a dozen posts. I think some were using the latter as proof of the former.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 28, 2018 15:26:37 GMT -5
To be clear, I don't think baseball will ever die, but I do see major changes with the game coming within the next 10 years. This includes pace of play and free agency. Pitch clocks. Mound visits eliminated. Better instant replay system. Fewer years of control in free agency. DH in both leagues. I can bet money that all of these things will happen and fix a lot with what is wrong with baseball today.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Dec 28, 2018 15:36:07 GMT -5
Some good calls there, which seem to be in the wind. And should help pacr of play. So how can miLB players get paid? I think that is essential to getting more kids interested in pursuing the MLB draft.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2018 15:37:57 GMT -5
To be clear, I don't think baseball will ever die, but I do see major changes with the game coming within the next 10 years. This includes pace of play and free agency. Pitch clocks. Mound visits eliminated. Better instant replay system. Fewer years of control in free agency. DH in both leagues. I can bet money that all of these things will happen and fix a lot with what is wrong with baseball today. I can bet money that most of those things will happen and will not fix anything with the exception of the DH in the NL. That will fix it so that pitchers who haven't batted since high school 10 years ago will not have to bat in MLB. More exciting free agency isn't going to make the offseason more exciting. Sorry, but it just won't. It could condense it so that there are far longer periods of nothing happening and that's it. And that will not increase ratings whatsoever, except during the condensed period. It won't increase ratings in the regular season at all.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 28, 2018 15:53:31 GMT -5
To be clear, I don't think baseball will ever die, but I do see major changes with the game coming within the next 10 years. This includes pace of play and free agency. Pitch clocks. Mound visits eliminated. Better instant replay system. Fewer years of control in free agency. DH in both leagues. I can bet money that all of these things will happen and fix a lot with what is wrong with baseball today. I can bet money that most of those things will happen and will not fix anything with the exception of the DH in the NL. That will fix it so that pitchers who haven't batted since high school 10 years ago will not have to bat in MLB. More exciting free agency isn't going to make the offseason more exciting. Sorry, but it just won't. It could condense it so that there are far longer periods of nothing happening and that's it. And that will not increase ratings whatsoever, except during the condensed period. It won't increase ratings in the regular season at all. The DH part is true. The second part about free agency is opinion. Baseball should be doing everything to make the slow pace when it comes to everything in that sport more entertaining. Basketball just introduced a new 14 second rule off a offensive rebound rule, instead of the old 24 second rule. They decreased timeouts. They are doing everything they can to speed up the action of the game and it's working. The games in the NBA are better now with less downtime. They implemented this within the last 2 years. The less years of control and the limit of years in NBA free agency works. Players are getting signed on day 1 on free agency. LeBron jerseys sold by the millions in LA since he signed. Baseball has implemented a mound visit rule and a broken instant replay system within the last 5 years. This is a problem. Baseball is not proactive or even reactive. They have the best game on earth and they refuse to tweak anything to make the game better.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2018 16:01:06 GMT -5
I can bet money that most of those things will happen and will not fix anything with the exception of the DH in the NL. That will fix it so that pitchers who haven't batted since high school 10 years ago will not have to bat in MLB. More exciting free agency isn't going to make the offseason more exciting. Sorry, but it just won't. It could condense it so that there are far longer periods of nothing happening and that's it. And that will not increase ratings whatsoever, except during the condensed period. It won't increase ratings in the regular season at all. The DH part is true. The second part about free agency is opinion. Baseball should be doing everything to make the slow pace when it comes to everything in that sport more entertaining. Basketball just introduced a new 14 second rule off a offensive rebound rule, instead of the old 24 second rule. They decreased timeouts. They are doing everything they can to speed up the action of the game and it's working. The games in the NBA are better now with less downtime. They implemented this within the last 2 years. The less years of control and the limit of years in NBA free agency works. Players are getting signed on day 1 on free agency. LeBron jerseys sold by the millions in LA since he signed. Baseball has implemented a mound visit rule and a broken instant replay system within the last 5 years. This is a problem. Baseball is not proactive or even reactive. They have the best game on earth and they refuse to tweak anything to make the game better. Baseball isn't basketball. Whichever team Lebron James is on is always a championship contender even if he went to any team in the league. Every single team would want to sign him. (more or less) The team Mike Trout is on is never one. Most teams would not want to invest in Trout because he alone does not make your team compete for a championship. You cannot market a team sport like baseball as an individual star sport like basketball.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 28, 2018 16:13:52 GMT -5
The DH part is true. The second part about free agency is opinion. Baseball should be doing everything to make the slow pace when it comes to everything in that sport more entertaining. Basketball just introduced a new 14 second rule off a offensive rebound rule, instead of the old 24 second rule. They decreased timeouts. They are doing everything they can to speed up the action of the game and it's working. The games in the NBA are better now with less downtime. They implemented this within the last 2 years. The less years of control and the limit of years in NBA free agency works. Players are getting signed on day 1 on free agency. LeBron jerseys sold by the millions in LA since he signed. Baseball has implemented a mound visit rule and a broken instant replay system within the last 5 years. This is a problem. Baseball is not proactive or even reactive. They have the best game on earth and they refuse to tweak anything to make the game better. Baseball isn't basketball. Whichever team Lebron James is on is always a championship contender even if he went to any team in the league. Every single team would want to sign him. (more or less) The team Mike Trout is on is never one. Most teams would not want to invest in Trout because he alone does not make your team compete for a championship. You cannot market a team sport like baseball as an individual star sport like basketball. You're missing the point again. The hype is what it's all about. Mike Trout could be talked about like a LeBron James, even if he doesn't create the same effect on a baseball team as opposed to a basketball team. The casual fan doesn't care about the difference in fact, especially if he gets promoted as the greatest baseball player to possibly ever live. The game doesn't do that. They talk about how the game is over 3 hours long instead, which also needs to be figured out. Even the diehard fans will buy a ton more jerseys if there was anything, but that is not what's happening in the disaster that is MLB free agency today.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2018 16:21:13 GMT -5
Baseball isn't basketball. Whichever team Lebron James is on is always a championship contender even if he went to any team in the league. Every single team would want to sign him. (more or less) The team Mike Trout is on is never one. Most teams would not want to invest in Trout because he alone does not make your team compete for a championship. You cannot market a team sport like baseball as an individual star sport like basketball. You're missing the point again. The hype is what it's all about. Mike Trout could be talked about like a LeBron James, even if he doesn't create the same effect on a baseball team as opposed to a basketball team. The casual fan doesn't care about the difference in fact, especially if he gets promoted as the greatest baseball player to possibly ever live. The game doesn't do that. They talk about how the game is over 3 hours long instead, which also needs to be figured out. Even the diehard fans will buy a ton more jerseys if there was anything, but that is not what's happening in the disaster that is MLB free agency today. Only morons would not see through that hype. I don't even know what hype even is. The act of signing Harper or Machado is way bigger than any hype surrounding it. Fans who understand baseball know that signing Machado for far more money than LeBron might give a team with a black hole at 3B an extra 5 wins out of 162 at most. Signing LeBron James adds a lot more to a team than that so the hype is well deserved. If it's not deserved, it's fake and assuming fans are idiots and will always fall for it isn't going to help much. Are you actually saying that because the Red Sox waited so long to sign JDM you didn't buy his jersey? Are you saying that if only they made the act of signing him more exciting, you would have? Why do you think so little of yourself? I myself just like watching him play. The lack of a f'ing free agency parade and balloons won't make me more likely to buy a freaking jersey.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 28, 2018 16:32:22 GMT -5
You're missing the point again. The hype is what it's all about. Mike Trout could be talked about like a LeBron James, even if he doesn't create the same effect on a baseball team as opposed to a basketball team. The casual fan doesn't care about the difference in fact, especially if he gets promoted as the greatest baseball player to possibly ever live. The game doesn't do that. They talk about how the game is over 3 hours long instead, which also needs to be figured out. Even the diehard fans will buy a ton more jerseys if there was anything, but that is not what's happening in the disaster that is MLB free agency today. Only morons would not see through that hype. I don't even know what hype even is. The act of signing Harper or Machado is way bigger than any hype surrounding it. Fans who understand baseball know that signing Machado for far more money than LeBron might give a team with a black hole at 3B an extra 5 wins out of 162 at most. Signing LeBron James adds a lot more to a team than that so the hype is well deserved. If it's not deserved, it's fake and assuming fans are idiots and will always fall for it isn't going to help much. Nope. Not every fan does know that a player from baseball "might give a extra 5 wins at most" when compared to basketball. Nope. I can think of girls, older people, college kids, young kids (especially the kids), not knowing this AT ALL. Completely closed minded thinking here. The game of baseball could also use more "idiots or complete morons" who come to a game and blindly root for the home team and be home within a reasonable time after the game ends. They shouldn't run away from that. Nope, invite them all in. Hype is the drama and build and the ramifications of signing a free agent for example. Can that player help carry a team in a playoff run? Will he be the best free agent signing in Sox history (for example)? Will this free agent adapt in the new clubhouse? Stuff like that. Personalities would be good for example and baseball has hidden rules of celebrating things like homeruns, which goes into a completely different problem that is unrelated, but can add to the list of problems of baseball today.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 28, 2018 16:38:20 GMT -5
You're missing the point again. The hype is what it's all about. Mike Trout could be talked about like a LeBron James, even if he doesn't create the same effect on a baseball team as opposed to a basketball team. The casual fan doesn't care about the difference in fact, especially if he gets promoted as the greatest baseball player to possibly ever live. The game doesn't do that. They talk about how the game is over 3 hours long instead, which also needs to be figured out. Even the diehard fans will buy a ton more jerseys if there was anything, but that is not what's happening in the disaster that is MLB free agency today. Are you actually saying that because the Red Sox waited so long to sign JDM you didn't buy his jersey? Are you saying that if only they made the act of signing him more exciting, you would have? Why do you think so little of yourself? I myself just like watching him play. The lack of a f'ing free agency parade and balloons won't make me more likely to buy a freaking jersey. Okay let me tell you what I did before and after the Sox signed JDM this off-season. I didn't buy tickets that offseason until the Sox signed JDM. I couldn't actually buy a freaking Jersey until February or March. I bought a shirt with his number and name on the back in April. I did this because I knew the Sox were not going to be good enough to win without him. I don't think any little of myself? I don't know what's with that comment.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 28, 2018 16:40:31 GMT -5
Are you actually saying that because the Red Sox waited so long to sign JDM you didn't buy his jersey? Are you saying that if only they made the act of signing him more exciting, you would have? Why do you think so little of yourself? I myself just like watching him play. The lack of a f'ing free agency parade and balloons won't make me more likely to buy a freaking jersey. Okay let me tell you what I did before and after the Sox signed JDM this off-season. I didn't buy tickets that offseason until the Sox signed JDM. I couldn't actually buy a freaking Jersey until February or March. I bought a shirt with his number and name on the back in April.
I did this because I knew the Sox were not going to be good enough to win without him. I don't think any little of myself? I don't know what's with that comment. You're right, MLB and the Red Sox are clearly failing to hold your attention.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2018 16:42:02 GMT -5
Only morons would not see through that hype. I don't even know what hype even is. The act of signing Harper or Machado is way bigger than any hype surrounding it. Fans who understand baseball know that signing Machado for far more money than LeBron might give a team with a black hole at 3B an extra 5 wins out of 162 at most. Signing LeBron James adds a lot more to a team than that so the hype is well deserved. If it's not deserved, it's fake and assuming fans are idiots and will always fall for it isn't going to help much. Nope. Not every fan does know that a player from baseball "might give a extra 5 wins at most" when compared to basketball. Nope. Completely closed mind thinking. I can think of girls, older people, college kids, young kids (especially the kids), not knowing this AT ALL. Completely closed minded thinking here. The game of baseball could also use more "idiots or complete morons" who come to a game and blindly root for the home team and be home within a reasonable time after the game ends. They shouldn't run away from that. Nope invite them all in. Hype is the drama and build and the ramifications of signing a free agent for example. Can that player help carry a team in a playoff run? Will he be the best free agent signing in Sox history (for example)? Will this free agent adapt in the new clubhouse? Stuff like that. Personalities would be good for example and baseball has hidden rules of celebrating things like homeruns, which goes into a completely different problem that is unrelated, but can add to the list of problems of baseball today. I find it incredible that you think dumbing the game down like that is good for baseball. Like we need to ESPN-ize the sport even more to make it better. Who cares if these dumb fans exist or not? Do you need the validation of others for liking a sport? If not, then there's no need. Why do fans care if Mike Trout makes $30 million or $150 million a year? Those people you're looking at drawing in, still are not going to be following the offseason no matter how 'exciting' it was. Those fans aren't watching NFL free agency or the draft either.
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Post by soxcentral on Dec 28, 2018 16:45:40 GMT -5
Yes, I'm legitimately trying to open an honest discussion about this topic and appreciate your response. Seriously. As JimEd points out the ratings drop were influenced by streaming, I appreciate you taking the time to read that as well. If we can go further, how would we explain the attendance pattern over the last 6 years? www.baseball-reference.com/leagues/MLB/misc.shtml
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2018 16:45:54 GMT -5
Are you actually saying that because the Red Sox waited so long to sign JDM you didn't buy his jersey? Are you saying that if only they made the act of signing him more exciting, you would have? Why do you think so little of yourself? I myself just like watching him play. The lack of a f'ing free agency parade and balloons won't make me more likely to buy a freaking jersey. Okay let me tell you what I did before and after the Sox signed JDM this off-season. I didn't buy tickets that offseason until the Sox signed JDM. I couldn't actually buy a freaking Jersey until February or March. I bought a shirt with his number and name on the back in April. I did this because I knew the Sox were not going to be good enough to win without him. I don't think any little of myself? I don't know what's with that comment. I truly am sorry for those few months of missed opportunities wearing your JDM jersey last winter. Being a baseball fan is hard. Especially when you believe only winning makes the sport worth watching.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 28, 2018 16:47:03 GMT -5
Okay let me tell you what I did before and after the Sox signed JDM this off-season. I didn't buy tickets that offseason until the Sox signed JDM. I couldn't actually buy a freaking Jersey until February or March. I bought a shirt with his number and name on the back in April.
I did this because I knew the Sox were not going to be good enough to win without him. I don't think any little of myself? I don't know what's with that comment. You're right, MLB and the Red Sox are clearly failing to hold your attention. MLB is failing to do a lot of things and it's being talked about a lot. Please, go ahead and throw snark to make yourself look better though. A poster asked me my opinion of what I did before and after the signing. Maybe the sales of JDM's goes up if he signs earlier? Maybe you sell more tickets because he signed sooner because casual people recognize the name?
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2018 16:50:04 GMT -5
You're right, MLB and the Red Sox are clearly failing to hold your attention. MLB is failing to do a lot of things and it's being talked about a lot. Please, go ahead and throw snark to make yourself look better though. A poster asked me my opinion of what I did before and after the signing. Maybe the sales of JDM's goes up if he signs earlier? Maybe you sell more tickets because he signed sooner because casual people recognize the name? Maybe you sell the exact same number of jerseys and tickets regardless of when he was signed. Why can't someone willing to buy a JDM jersey in December not buy one in March?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 28, 2018 16:50:48 GMT -5
Okay let me tell you what I did before and after the Sox signed JDM this off-season. I didn't buy tickets that offseason until the Sox signed JDM. I couldn't actually buy a freaking Jersey until February or March. I bought a shirt with his number and name on the back in April. I did this because I knew the Sox were not going to be good enough to win without him. I don't think any little of myself? I don't know what's with that comment. I truly am sorry for those few months of missed opportunities wearing your JDM jersey last winter. Being a baseball fan is hard. Especially when you believe only winning makes the sport worth watching. I have watched every season since I was 8. I post a lot here, even in losing seasons. I post when the Sox are literally down by ten and I'm just watching to see a guy like Travis Lakins who I've been following for years is making his second appearance in a MLB game. Being a baseball fan is hard, especially when the games take too long, yeap.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 28, 2018 16:52:09 GMT -5
MLB is failing to do a lot of things and it's being talked about a lot. Please, go ahead and throw snark to make yourself look better though. A poster asked me my opinion of what I did before and after the signing. Maybe the sales of JDM's goes up if he signs earlier? Maybe you sell more tickets because he signed sooner because casual people recognize the name? Maybe you sell the exact same number of jerseys and tickets regardless of when he was signed. Why can't someone willing to buy a JDM jersey in December not buy one in March? Because there is a lot more time to do so? Maybe a family only has money in December? There are a million reasons why.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2018 16:53:29 GMT -5
I truly am sorry for those few months of missed opportunities wearing your JDM jersey last winter. Being a baseball fan is hard. Especially when you believe only winning makes the sport worth watching. I have watched every season since I was 8. I post a lot here, even in losing seasons. I post when the Sox are literally down by ten and I'm just watching to see a guy like Travis Lakins who I've been following for years is making his second appearance in a MLB game. Being a baseball fan is hard, especially when the games take too long, yeap. I was just going by what you said. And regardless, you bought the tickets anyway. How did the Red Sox lose when it comes to your purchases?
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2018 16:55:28 GMT -5
Maybe you sell the exact same number of jerseys and tickets regardless of when he was signed. Why can't someone willing to buy a JDM jersey in December not buy one in March? Because there is a lot more time to do so? Maybe a family only has money in December? There are a million reasons why. Maybe a family only has money in March. I can make up ridiculous crap too. There are a million ridiculous reasons that can be made up. How much time is needed to buy tickets? You have from February 19th (the day JDM signed) until the end of September to buy some.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 28, 2018 16:58:41 GMT -5
Nope. Not every fan does know that a player from baseball "might give a extra 5 wins at most" when compared to basketball. Nope. Completely closed mind thinking. I can think of girls, older people, college kids, young kids (especially the kids), not knowing this AT ALL. Completely closed minded thinking here. The game of baseball could also use more "idiots or complete morons" who come to a game and blindly root for the home team and be home within a reasonable time after the game ends. They shouldn't run away from that. Nope invite them all in. Hype is the drama and build and the ramifications of signing a free agent for example. Can that player help carry a team in a playoff run? Will he be the best free agent signing in Sox history (for example)? Will this free agent adapt in the new clubhouse? Stuff like that. Personalities would be good for example and baseball has hidden rules of celebrating things like homeruns, which goes into a completely different problem that is unrelated, but can add to the list of problems of baseball today. I find it incredible that you think dumbing the game down like that is good for baseball. Like we need to ESPN-ize the sport even more to make it better. Who cares if these dumb fans exist or not? Do you need the validation of others for liking a sport? If not, then there's no need. Why do fans care if Mike Trout makes $30 million or $150 million a year? Those people you're looking at drawing in, still are not going to be following the offseason no matter how 'exciting' it was. Those fans aren't watching NFL free agency or the draft either. Money talks in life. It matters in life how much a person makes. Sure in story books that shouldn't exist, but in real life it does. I disagree about your point about the excitement part. Excitement creates hype, hype creates conversations, conversations could lead to more ticket and merchandising sales. The game is just better if more people are talking about, even if you think it's "dumb." Would love to see baseball become more commercialized. It's the world we live in today. Change is inevitable and if you don't adapt to it, then you're not thinking ahead.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2018 17:01:40 GMT -5
I could not disagree more. Commercialization makes me less interested in sports, not more. And the kind of crap you're talking about exists only on ESPN and talk radio. If that's what you want, I'm not sure why you're even here, because people are way smarter than that here.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 28, 2018 17:02:37 GMT -5
Because there is a lot more time to do so? Maybe a family only has money in December? There are a million reasons why. Maybe a family only has money in March. I can make up ridiculous crap too. There are a million ridiculous reasons that can be made up. How much time is needed to buy tickets? You have from February 19th (the day JDM signed) until the end of September to buy some. Okay clearly you're not seeing my points at all and you live in a box that you only want to see the game of baseball go. It's cool. Happy holidays.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Dec 28, 2018 17:03:25 GMT -5
I could not disagree more. Commercialization makes me less interested in sports, not more. And the kind of crap you're talking about exists only on ESPN and talk radio. If that's what you want, I'm not sure why you're even here, because people are way smarter than that here. Wow. Lol. That's awesome. Good day to you sir.
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