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Red Sox Piggyback starters?
danr
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Post by danr on Jan 26, 2019 3:22:01 GMT -5
In the projections of rosters in 2019 the starters are listed as Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi and Rodriguez, which will be one of the best rotations in baseball. However, there also are listed as piggyback starters, Johnson and Velazquez. Piggyback starters are used in the minors to limit the innings pitched by starters as well as to give other prospects more innings. However, what is it doing in the major league projections? Maybe I missed an explanation.
They obviously would be the first replacements for any of the starters who were injured, or faltered, but that is different.
As the projections are set up, there would be 13 pitchers and 13 position players, when only 25 can be on the roster.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jan 26, 2019 4:50:12 GMT -5
In the projections of rosters in 2019 the starters are listed as Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi and Rodriguez, which will be one of the best rotations in baseball. However, there also are listed as piggyback starters, Johnson and Velazquez. Piggyback starters are used in the minors to limit the innings pitched by starters as well as to give other prospects more innings. However, what is it doing in the major league projections? Maybe I missed an explanation. They obviously would be the first replacements for any of the starters who were injured, or faltered, but that is different. As the projections are set up, there would be 13 pitchers and 13 position players, when only 25 can be on the roster. The need, identified by Cora, to slowly ease the Rotation back to form will likely involve using both the 6-man and piggy back, as you suggest. Depending on how ST works out, the Sox are uniquely well set for this not only with Johnson and Velasquez, but Wright, Erasmo R., Shawaryn could be ready for this early season juggling. We might see 3 of them working out of the Bullpen which leaves room, at least to begin the season, for only four mid-late inning arms; a seven man bullpen despite the unique circumstances. So perhaps Barnes, Brasier, Hembree, Thornburg are the 4 dominating at the end of March while guys like Lakins, Poyner, Brewer, Feltman prepare for debuts later in the season. I agree with Telson that we may have enough, and likely already have equivalant or better choices than what remains in FA, despite wishing for more.
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Post by dmaineah on Jan 26, 2019 7:50:11 GMT -5
In the projections of rosters in 2019 the starters are listed as Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi and Rodriguez, which will be one of the best rotations in baseball. However, there also are listed as piggyback starters, Johnson and Velazquez. Piggyback starters are used in the minors to limit the innings pitched by starters as well as to give other prospects more innings. However, what is it doing in the major league projections? Maybe I missed an explanation. They obviously would be the first replacements for any of the starters who were injured, or faltered, but that is different. As the projections are set up, there would be 13 pitchers and 13 position players, when only 25 can be on the roster. It's not so much that "piggyback starters" should be eliminated it's more of "acquisition" should be eliminated. Then the roster would be at 25 with 12 pitchers & 13 position players. Actually, I think Eovaldi should be moved to the bullpen & listed as closer, Johnson moved to Starter while leaving Velázquez as a piggyback starter & eliminating the word acquisition. Also, Leon & Swihart should be switched.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 26, 2019 8:34:07 GMT -5
In the projections of rosters in 2019 the starters are listed as Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi and Rodriguez, which will be one of the best rotations in baseball. However, there also are listed as piggyback starters, Johnson and Velazquez. Piggyback starters are used in the minors to limit the innings pitched by starters as well as to give other prospects more innings. However, what is it doing in the major league projections? Maybe I missed an explanation. They obviously would be the first replacements for any of the starters who were injured, or faltered, but that is different. As the projections are set up, there would be 13 pitchers and 13 position players, when only 25 can be on the roster. It's not so much that "piggyback starters" should be eliminated it's more of "acquisition" should be eliminated. Then the roster would be at 25 with 12 pitchers & 13 position players. Actually, I think Eovaldi should be moved to the bullpen & listed as closer, Johnson moved to Starter while leaving Velázquez as a piggyback starter & eliminating the word acquisition. Also, Leon & Swihart should be switched. They didn't pay Eovaldi 17 million per year to close. They don't think of him as a 1 or 2 pitch pitcher who can only go 1 inning. They got him because they think he can pitch near 200 innings and be a top of the rotation type starter which is way more valuable than a closer and way more valuable than giving Brian Johnson 30 starts in his place.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 26, 2019 9:01:08 GMT -5
Maybe Eovaldi should replace JBJ in CF, or dmaineah's new bizarre obsession.
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Post by Smittyw on Jan 26, 2019 10:39:42 GMT -5
Actually, I think Eovaldi should be moved to the bullpen & listed as closer,
No kidding. If only this question had been addressed and settled earlier in the offseason...oh wait:
“There were a lot of teams that reached out, wanted me to be a closer,” [Eovaldi] said. “I view myself as a starter, and that’s something I’ve always done my entire career. And I enjoy doing that. So if I had that choice, I still wanted to be a starter.”
...
“I can’t wait to see him again with us. He’s going to be a huge part of this rotation,” Red Sox manager Alex Cora said Monday during a winter meetings news conference.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 26, 2019 10:58:27 GMT -5
1) gerry's basically got it. It might be more accurate to call them Swingmen.
2) We always list 26 guys on the MLB projection because there's always someone on the DL to start the year for some ding they suffer in ST. If everyone's healthy, maybe bump Velazquez down to Pawtucket.
and dmaineah, stop trying to make fetch happen.
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Post by telson13 on Jan 26, 2019 12:48:56 GMT -5
I was going to comment on Eovaldi closing, but I can’t. I’m done. I’m bowing out of that fight. No outrage. No George Bernard Shaw quotes. Good luck with this one, compadres.
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Post by telson13 on Jan 26, 2019 12:58:19 GMT -5
In the projections of rosters in 2019 the starters are listed as Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi and Rodriguez, which will be one of the best rotations in baseball. However, there also are listed as piggyback starters, Johnson and Velazquez. Piggyback starters are used in the minors to limit the innings pitched by starters as well as to give other prospects more innings. However, what is it doing in the major league projections? Maybe I missed an explanation. They obviously would be the first replacements for any of the starters who were injured, or faltered, but that is different. As the projections are set up, there would be 13 pitchers and 13 position players, when only 25 can be on the roster. Btw, Dan, as Gerry mentioned there was some talk of doing some rotation fiddling the first month or so, to allow for slower ramp-up. I’m not sure how Cora’s going to do that but a 6-man or piggybacking are certainly possibilities (as is using bullpen games a la TB, and having the starters act as rovers). I think that’s part of the plan of acquiring AAA depth, especially guys who can go longer stretches/start. I also wonder if they’ll try to convert some starters (minor league FAs, MLB FAs on the fringe, etc,) into relievers to pan for gold. I’m curious, although I’ve also probably got more confidence than most in their ability to construct a bullpen with reclamation projects and cast-offs.
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Post by chrisfromnc on Jan 26, 2019 14:27:08 GMT -5
Btw, Dan, as Gerry mentioned there was some talk of doing some rotation fiddling the first month or so, to allow for slower ramp-up. I’m not sure how Cora’s going to do that but a 6-man or piggybacking are certainly possibilities (as is using bullpen games a la TB, and having the starters act as rovers). I think that’s part of the plan of acquiring AAA depth, especially guys who can go longer stretches/start. I also wonder if they’ll try to convert some starters (minor league FAs, MLB FAs on the fringe, etc,) into relievers to pan for gold. I’m curious, although I’ve also probably got more confidence than most in their ability to construct a bullpen with reclamation projects and cast-offs. Not that it’s a huge point but If I’m a Sox starter and Cora asked me my opinion about how to ease into the workload of building innings, it’s no contest that I’d rather pitch fewer innings every fifth day rather than a couple more innings more every 6th day. At least I’m sure that’s what I’d want to do earlier in the season. After the All-Star break, I’d probably want the exact opposite and would prefer the extra day off. Disclaimer: I have pitched zero innings of professional baseball.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 26, 2019 15:39:27 GMT -5
In the projections of rosters in 2019 the starters are listed as Sale, Price, Porcello, Eovaldi and Rodriguez, which will be one of the best rotations in baseball. However, there also are listed as piggyback starters, Johnson and Velazquez. Piggyback starters are used in the minors to limit the innings pitched by starters as well as to give other prospects more innings. However, what is it doing in the major league projections? Maybe I missed an explanation. They obviously would be the first replacements for any of the starters who were injured, or faltered, but that is different. As the projections are set up, there would be 13 pitchers and 13 position players, when only 25 can be on the roster. Btw, Dan, as Gerry mentioned there was some talk of doing some rotation fiddling the first month or so, to allow for slower ramp-up. I’m not sure how Cora’s going to do that but a 6-man or piggybacking are certainly possibilities (as is using bullpen games a la TB, and having the starters act as rovers). I think that’s part of the plan of acquiring AAA depth, especially guys who can go longer stretches/start. I also wonder if they’ll try to convert some starters (minor league FAs, MLB FAs on the fringe, etc,) into relievers to pan for gold. I’m curious, although I’ve also probably got more confidence than most in their ability to construct a bullpen with reclamation projects and cast-offs. I don't think the acquisition of guys on MiLB contracts has anything to do with this. Remember that these guys would need to be added to the roster in order to contribute at the major league level, and then would need to be removed from the 40 to go back down. For something like that in the first few weeks of the season, it probably makes more sense to use the guys they already have and maybe cycle some relievers with options than to add an Erasmo-type to the roster just to have to cut him loose in a few weeks. On the other hand, maybe one of those guys shoves in camp and wins a roster spot, which would be helpful and a different animal.
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Post by telson13 on Jan 27, 2019 0:16:11 GMT -5
Btw, Dan, as Gerry mentioned there was some talk of doing some rotation fiddling the first month or so, to allow for slower ramp-up. I’m not sure how Cora’s going to do that but a 6-man or piggybacking are certainly possibilities (as is using bullpen games a la TB, and having the starters act as rovers). I think that’s part of the plan of acquiring AAA depth, especially guys who can go longer stretches/start. I also wonder if they’ll try to convert some starters (minor league FAs, MLB FAs on the fringe, etc,) into relievers to pan for gold. I’m curious, although I’ve also probably got more confidence than most in their ability to construct a bullpen with reclamation projects and cast-offs. I don't think the acquisition of guys on MiLB contracts has anything to do with this. Remember that these guys would need to be added to the roster in order to contribute at the major league level, and then would need to be removed from the 40 to go back down. For something like that in the first few weeks of the season, it probably makes more sense to use the guys they already have and maybe cycle some relievers with options than to add an Erasmo-type to the roster just to have to cut him loose in a few weeks. On the other hand, maybe one of those guys shoves in camp and wins a roster spot, which would be helpful and a different animal. Yeah, that’s more what I meant...they seem to be going volume and hoping on the (what’s it, 5 or 6 guys now, at least?) cadre of pitchers they have a look at, a couple are maybe amenable to some Bannister/Levangie tinkering. Then maybe they see if they can catch lightning in a bottle out of ST with one or two, and maybe stash a few more in AAA to get a longer look. They have enough multi-inning guys in Johnson, Velasquez, Workman, Hembree that I could see them piggyback in a 5-man with the front 5, and then sort of break up the logjam at the “AAAA”-MLB level once the set starters are going longer and they have a better handle on who among the returnees they intend to keep over maybe a surprise (like Brasier) or a young guy like Lakins who might shove early. I def didn’t intend to say that Colten Brewer, Tapia, Ramirez et al were meant as a TB-style musical 40-man spot game. I think if they do do “bullpenning,” it’ll be with guys already on staff (or guys who win a spot after ST), maybe with an opener followed by one of the top 5 starters for 3-4 innings, then Johnson/Velasquez, Workman, etc. I definitely get the impression their bargain-bin signing spree is specifically aimed at a Brasier redux, and that they won’t be doing nearly the amount of 40-man roster shuffling TB did.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Jan 27, 2019 0:26:55 GMT -5
Am pretty sure it's been mentioned here before.
If Dombrowski was willing to spend a good amount of money on a closer, then he would have just let Eovaldi walk earlier and signed one of the middle guys Miller, Britton etc.. instead. it was pretty clear he wanted the formidable rotation preferably and look for scrap pieces for the pen with where that deal put the 2019 salary at.
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