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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Mar 23, 2019 12:59:40 GMT -5
that was interesting, ball got caught up on top of scoreboard for a bit.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Mar 23, 2019 15:13:12 GMT -5
What does this have to do with 2019? Just because we don’t have a shutdown closer now doesn’t mean we won’t have one sometime during the season. Someone in the BP could be 2019 koji. Where was Koji on the depth chart going into the 2013 season? Uehara had 3 straight years of being better than anyone in our current bullpen from 2010-2012, so yeah I think it’s a little far fetched to think the next Koji is taking the bullpen by storm.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 24, 2019 9:12:55 GMT -5
Are we ready? I am....the team is looking great going into the last two spring training games. As the Celtics implode and stumble toward the playoffs, the Pats news is so much around Kraft's dalliance, and the Bruins show how effort and team can lead to great results, I think we are all ready to see how this magnificent Cora-led bunch attack the season.
Ready to continue to do damage!
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Post by jamesmcgillstatue on Mar 24, 2019 11:30:31 GMT -5
that was interesting, ball got caught up on top of scoreboard for a bit. I've been meaning to ask this question since the 2018 postseason: In Game 2 of the ALCS, Bradley's bases-clearing -- and game-winning -- opposite-field double at Fenway took a high bounce into foul territory and rolled along the top of the padding, back towards the infield, and was too high up for Gonzalez, the Houston LF, to field. Kudos to the fans sitting along the left-field line for NOT touching the ball while it was in play, because that would have given the umps a reason to hold Devers, who was on first base, to two bases and cost the Red Sox the lead run. Anyway ... that's the first time I've ever seen that kind of thing happen since they installed the padding. Has anyone here seen that happen before?
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Mar 24, 2019 11:33:00 GMT -5
Are we ready? I am....the team is looking great going into the last two spring training games. As the Celtics implode and stumble toward the playoffs, the Pats news is so much around Kraft's dalliance, and the Bruins show how effort and team can lead to great results, I think we are all ready to see how this magnificent Cora-led bunch attack the season. Ready to continue to do damage! After several days of that impressive Florida finale, I fully agree. Those last games were so engrossing and comforting that not having a game today is causing withdrawals. Let the games begin.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 24, 2019 11:46:10 GMT -5
that was interesting, ball got caught up on top of scoreboard for a bit. I've been meaning to ask this question since the 2018 postseason: In Game 2 of the ALCS, Bradley's bases-clearing -- and game-winning -- opposite-field double at Fenway took a high bounce into foul territory and rolled along the top of the padding, back towards the infield, and was too high up for Gonzalez, the Houston LF, to field. Kudos to the fans sitting along the left-field line for NOT touching the ball while it was in play, because that would have given the umps a reason to hold Devers, who was on first base, to two bases and cost the Red Sox the lead run. Anyway ... that's the first time I've ever seen that kind of thing happen since they installed the padding. Has anyone here seen that happen before? I've never seen that kind of fortuitous roll before. It took forever to come down so poor Gonzalez couldn't field the ball. Everything went so right last season.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 25, 2019 20:38:29 GMT -5
Where is everyone - night time baseball! Cubs!
Porcello just had a really scary moment - line drive right off his head and into center field. Apparently and shockingly and thankfully he is OK.
This and one more then time for the BIG SHOW!
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 25, 2019 22:39:58 GMT -5
Boring game, but Porcello, Barnes, E Rod, Brasier looked good, Velazquez did not. Balls lost in the high sky led to the loss.
Quiet offense, but a nice dinger by Benny.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 26, 2019 6:42:21 GMT -5
Just because we don’t have a shutdown closer now doesn’t mean we won’t have one sometime during the season. Someone in the BP could be 2019 koji. Where was Koji on the depth chart going into the 2013 season? Uehara had 3 straight years of being better than anyone in our current bullpen from 2010-2012, so yeah I think it’s a little far fetched to think the next Koji is taking the bullpen by storm. I'll echo this. There's been sort of this revisionist history that Uehara "came out of nowhere." He had a track record, was signed to be the setup man, and there were a lot of people really excited about it and thought he was a really smart addition before he'd even thrown a pitch. While his 2013 was better than anyone really had a right to expect, there were a lot of people who thought he'd be very good.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 26, 2019 6:52:32 GMT -5
Uehara had 3 straight years of being better than anyone in our current bullpen from 2010-2012, so yeah I think it’s a little far fetched to think the next Koji is taking the bullpen by storm. I'll echo this. There's been sort of this revisionist history that Uehara "came out of nowhere." He had a track record, was signed to be the setup man, and there were a lot of people really excited about it and thought he was a really smart addition before he'd even thrown a pitch. While his 2013 was better than anyone really had a right to expect, there were a lot of people who thought he'd be very good. This. The guy had a 231/28 K/BB ratio in four MLB seasons and a sub-1 WHIP when they signed him. The question was just whether he could stay healthy. If anything, the Uehara story supports the perspective that the club made a mistake by not trying to pick up a cheap reliever or two.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 26, 2019 6:56:56 GMT -5
There's been this shift in narrative from "saves are overrated" (which is true!) to "relievers are overrated" which is crazy. Not overpaying for saves means, like, giving Ottavino $20 million instead of giving Kimbrel $75 million. It means trading Billy Koch for Keith Foulke. It certainly doesn't mean "relievers implode often so let's just not get any."
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 26, 2019 9:39:15 GMT -5
Now the 25 man roster is set.
Sam Travis will back up Mitch Moreland. Steve Pearce is on the Injured List to start the season. No real surprise there.
So the roster is:
Sale Price Porcello Eovaldi Rodriguez
Barnes Brasier Hembree Thornburg Workman Brewer Johnson Velazquez
Martinez Vazquez Moreland Holt Bogaerts Devers Benintendi Bradley Betts
Swihart Travis Nunez
Pedroia and Pearce on the IL and Wright is suspended.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 26, 2019 9:55:47 GMT -5
There's been this shift in narrative from "saves are overrated" (which is true!) to "relievers are overrated" which is crazy. Not overpaying for saves means, like, giving Ottavino $20 million instead of giving Kimbrel $75 million. It means trading Billy Koch for Keith Foulke. It certainly doesn't mean "relievers implode often so let's just not get any." The problem is that it's harder now to tell who the good relievers are. It used to be that a team's closer was the best reliever on the team and he pitched the 9th because that was the most important inning. If your team went out in the offseason and got a closer then there was some comfort in the notion that he was very good. I agree that it's harder to find discounts and undervalued guys, but I think I disagree with your reasons why. So, maybe 15-20 years ago, the closer was the guy who had always been the closer, even if was kind of a bum. Joe Borowski would be the closer and pick up the saves, Todd Jones would be the closer, Heathcliff Slocum would be the closer, stuff like that. There was an inertia to the position, because even a mediocre pitcher is going to protect a lot of three-run leads, and you'd get analysis like "he's 37 of 43 in save opportunities" which sounds good on its face, and then Arthur Rhodes would be "he's 1 of 3 in save opportunities" which sounds bad -- except then you realize that both are given the same opportunities to pick up blown saves, but only one guy is given the opportunity to earn saves. You could get a "setup man" on the cheap like Beane did with Keith Foulke because people thought more that closing was more a mentality than it was just being good at pitching. Today, people know that's not it - guys like Robertson and Miller got decent money, even without those saves, because people recognize that they're good. Ottavino getting $9M per year though? Since coming back from his injury in 2015, he's struck out 1/3 of the batters he's faced. You can't guarantee he'll be good, certainly not for three years, but that's an incredibly reasonable risk. And it also spreads out the risk. Like, right now, the Red Sox have two relievers who I trust. If you have two trustworthy relievers, the chances are way too great that in four months you only have one trustworthy reliever, given the attrition and injury risk. But if you have three, that risk is just spread out more. There's the risk that Ottavino gets hurt and isn't worth his paycheck, but there's also the current risk that Brasier turns back into a pumpkin, and there's not a really great fallback plan. All of that talk about someone turning into Koji above... well the chances of that happening are better if you bring in a couple of Kojis (Kojii? Kojodes?). I just don't know how you put together this $230 million team filled with great players in their prime, and you entrust THIS bullpen with it.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 26, 2019 10:17:18 GMT -5
The problem is that it's harder now to tell who the good relievers are. It used to be that a team's closer was the best reliever on the team and he pitched the 9th because that was the most important inning. If your team went out in the offseason and got a closer then there was some comfort in the notion that he was very good. I agree that it's harder to find discounts and undervalued guys, but I think I disagree with your reasons why. So, maybe 15-20 years ago, the closer was the guy who had always been the closer, even if was kind of a bum. Joe Borowski would be the closer and pick up the saves, Todd Jones would be the closer, Heathcliff Slocum would be the closer, stuff like that. There was an inertia to the position, because even a mediocre pitcher is going to protect a lot of one-run leads, and you'd get analysis like "he's 37 of 43 in save opportunities" which sounds good on its face, and then Arthur Rhodes would be "he's 1 of 3 in save opportunities" which sounds bad -- except then you realize that both are given the same opportunities to pick up blown saves, but only one guy is given the opportunity to earn saves. You could get a "setup man" on the cheap like Beane did with Keith Foulke because people thought more that closing was more a mentality than it was just being good at pitching. Today, people know that's not it - guys like Robertson and Miller got decent money, even without those saves, because people recognize that they're good. Ottavino getting $9M per year though? Since coming back from his injury in 2015, he's struck out 1/3 of the batters he's faced. You can't guarantee he'll be good, certainly not for three years, but that's an incredibly reasonable risk. And it also spreads out the risk. Like, right now, the Red Sox have two relievers who I trust. If you have two trustworthy relievers, the chances are way too great that in four months you only have one trustworthy reliever, given the attrition and injury risk. But if you have three, that risk is just spread out more. There's the risk that Ottavino gets hurt and isn't worth his paycheck, but there's also the current risk that Brasier turns back into a pumpkin, and there's not a really great fallback plan. All of that talk about someone turning into Koji above... well the chances of that happening are better if you bring in a couple of Koji's. I just don't know how you put together this $230 million team filled with great players in their prime, and you entrust THIS bullpen with it. Yup, this! They're doing a lot of on a wing and a prayer here. It's funny. I don't have a ton of faith that Houck and Hernandez turn into top notch starters - don't think too highly of our starting pitching prospects, but I think Houck and Hernandez could be excellent relievers and Feltman has future closer written all over him if he stays healthy, and I think even Lakins can contribute. There's a lot of good young relief talent, but the pressure they're going to put those kids under isn't really fair. They should be eased in. Now I'm not suggesting that Cora is going to throw them to the wolves - he's much smarter than that and remembers the Craig Hansen story. What I'm trying to say is if this bullpen implodes for the reasons James outlined above then everybody will be looking at these kids as the savior and that's not the way to break in. I like the way Brasier broke in last year. The Sox pen wasn't spectacular but it was reasonably organized. We knew Kimbrel was the rock solid closer and that Barnes was the main setup guy. Cora somehow designated Hembree as his fireman. It wasn't pretty but it was more stable then than it is now. Brasier was able to ease in and become a high leverage type of guy. He's also older and was closing in Pawtucket so it was less of a transition. These guys are starting in AA ball or High A ball perhaps in Feltman's case. That's a lot of pressure to put on them. I assume that maybe one of these kids goes in a deal for an established reliever, which would be a shame, considering there was a lot of useful relievers that didn't cost too much that the Sox could have gotten but opted not to. Maybe somehow Cora makes this work. Maybe Brewer is a find or Thornburg turns back into what he once was, but I think this pen will walk a lot of guys and create a lot of traffic and leads will slip away and perhaps put the Sox in a situation where they have to chase NY and dig out until they get the pen straightened out. The risk in this pen is so high and the certainty so low for a team that is so ready to win again as the rest of the team has a strong rotation which has a lot of established baseline performances and a lineup that has the same with a few guys having even more upside they can tap into. It's just about as complete a team as you can hope for, but for the pen. We have a brilliant manager and a smart GM - so hopefully they can make the pen functional or at least adequate to average.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 26, 2019 10:44:37 GMT -5
Today, people know that's not it - guys like Robertson and Miller got decent money, even without those saves, because people recognize that they're good. Ottavino getting $9M per year though? Since coming back from his injury in 2015, he's struck out 1/3 of the batters he's faced. You can't guarantee he'll be good, certainly not for three years, but that's an incredibly reasonable risk. And it also spreads out the risk. Like, right now, the Red Sox have two relievers who I trust. If you have two trustworthy relievers, the chances are way too great that in four months you only have one trustworthy reliever, given the attrition and injury risk. But if you have three, that risk is just spread out more. There's the risk that Ottavino gets hurt and isn't worth his paycheck, but there's also the current risk that Brasier turns back into a pumpkin, and there's not a really great fallback plan. All of that talk about someone turning into Koji above... well the chances of that happening are better if you bring in a couple of Kojis (Kojii? Kojodes?). I just don't know how you put together this $230 million team filled with great players in their prime, and you entrust THIS bullpen with it. If anything I think it's easier to identify the good relievers now, because by and large you're just looking for guys with ~30% k rates, and that's not a particularly hard skill to nail down, even in a small sample. There's really not any Chad Bradford weirdos where you wonder if he can keep up the weird delivery and the home run suppression or whatever other weird trickery. All Ottavino does is throw a slider that no one can hit 50% of the time. As long as he still has that pitch, he's going to be good.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 26, 2019 14:11:14 GMT -5
Struck me as funny, O'Brien:
"They move Ben Zobrist around a lot. He's basically their Brock Holt."
If you don't see what is funny, chances are you haven't followed baseball very long.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 26, 2019 14:40:39 GMT -5
Struck me as funny, O'Brien: "They move Ben Zobrist around a lot. He's basically their Brock Holt." If you don't see what is funny, chances are you haven't followed baseball very long. "Yadier Molina is a pretty good defensive catcher, he's kind of their Sandy Leon."
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Mar 26, 2019 14:56:31 GMT -5
Struck me as funny, O'Brien: "They move Ben Zobrist around a lot. He's basically their Brock Holt." If you don't see what is funny, chances are you haven't followed baseball very long. "Yadier Molina is a pretty good defensive catcher, he's kind of their Sandy Leon." "Darnell McDonald is a pretty good outfielder, he's kind of their Willy Mays."
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Post by voiceofreason on Mar 26, 2019 15:27:15 GMT -5
I just don't know how you put together this $230 million team filled with great players in their prime, and you entrust THIS bullpen with it.
Well I mean really what do you do differently if you need to stay below the max luxury penalties?
The best lineup and rotation in all of baseball with a maxed out cap situation, come on James you are one of the more intelligent guys on here. I believe they have enough young talent that someone will step up and get the job done.
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Post by fenwaydouble on Mar 26, 2019 15:39:39 GMT -5
I just don't know how you put together this $230 million team filled with great players in their prime, and you entrust THIS bullpen with it. Well I mean really what do you do differently if you need to stay below the max luxury penalties? The best lineup and rotation in all of baseball with a maxed out cap situation, come on James you are one of the more intelligent guys on here. I believe they have enough young talent that someone will step up and get the job done. They could just not stay below the max luxury tax penalties. That said, I agree that young talent will emerge and they'll be fine.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 26, 2019 17:23:15 GMT -5
Nice seeing Swihart hitting a HR right handed today.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 26, 2019 17:42:01 GMT -5
Nice seeing Swihart hitting a HR right handed today. Grand salami by Travis was an eye opener too - but it was not a good day for some pen arms. Oh well - spring training done - let's get on with the real show!
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 27, 2019 8:20:22 GMT -5
Looking at our opening day roster, I count 11 home grown out of 25...not too shabby!
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 27, 2019 8:31:50 GMT -5
Looking at our opening day roster, I count 11 home grown out of 25...not too shabby! Plus Hector Velazquez, who was signed as an older international free agent and might technically count as home grown, along with Eduardo Rodriguez, Brock Holt, and Heath Hembree, who weren't home grown by the dictionary definition but were traded for as prospects and the Red Sox deserve a lot of credit for their development. Holt and Hembree weren't top 20 prospects when Boston got then, and Rodriguez was going sideways in Double-A with Baltimore.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Mar 27, 2019 9:25:35 GMT -5
Looking at our opening day roster, I count 11 home grown out of 25...not too shabby! Plus Hector Velazquez, who was signed as an older international free agent and might technically count as home grown, along with Eduardo Rodriguez, Brock Holt, and Heath Hembree, who weren't home grown by the dictionary definition but were traded for as prospects and the Red Sox deserve a lot of credit for their development. Holt and Hembree weren't top 20 prospects when Boston got then, and Rodriguez was going sideways in Double-A with Baltimore. Thanks for adding that - I was on the fence, but I like your rationale. No matter what - it is an impressive accomplishment!
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