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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 11, 2019 19:10:43 GMT -5
I wonder why they had to wait, maybe because of the swelling in Raudes' arm?
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 11, 2019 19:13:38 GMT -5
I wonder why they had to wait, maybe because of the swelling in Raudes' arm? Because just like with normal human beings, surgery is always the last resort for baseball players. Some were saying the Price and Pomeranz should have gotten TJS to get it out of the way also.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 11, 2019 19:21:02 GMT -5
I wonder why they had to wait, maybe because of the swelling in Raudes' arm? Because just like with normal human beings, surgery is always the last resort for baseball players. Some were saying the Price and Pomeranz should have gotten TJS to get it out of the way also. This could be your interpretation of it. It could have taken months to clear up and look at with a MRI. Pomeranz still may need the Tommy John surgery at some point and Price is the exception to the rule. Raudes might come out of this throwing harder. Who knows? There's more risk, but it's better to do it while your younger if it's a full blown tear.
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Addam603
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Post by Addam603 on Feb 11, 2019 19:34:41 GMT -5
He’s out the rest of this year (obviously) and will probably be back sometime late next year. But even if he misses the entire 2020 season, he’ll still come back during his age 23 season.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 12, 2019 7:25:59 GMT -5
Roniel Raudes: I tweaked my elbow. It still hurts. Can you check it?
Med Tech: Sure! Here are your MRI results.
Dr. James Andrews, the best orthopedic surgeon in the world: Inconclusive right now: here is a good PT regimen for the next few months. Rehab, and we will re-evaluate in January.
pedrofanforever45, the highest-volume poster on SoxProspects: Bogus! Get surgery now! While you're young! You might even throw harder when it's done!
Roniel Raudes: This is a tough choice weighing the conflicting opinions of these two highly-trained experts who gave my medical documents the same thorough review.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 12, 2019 7:35:17 GMT -5
I was only questioning why they waited. There's really no need to insinuate things that aren't there.
They literally waited six months since after the minor league season ended. Few months? Try half a year.
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Post by p23w on Feb 12, 2019 7:36:40 GMT -5
Roniel Raudes: I tweaked my elbow. It still hurts. Can you check it?Med Tech: Sure! Here are your MRI results.Dr. James Andrews, the best orthopedic surgeon in the world: Inconclusive right now: here is a good PT regimen for the next few months. Rehab, and we will re-evaluate in January.
pedrofanforever45, the highest-volume poster on SoxProspects: Bogus! Get surgery now! While you're young! You might even throw harder when it's done!Roniel Raudes: This is a tough choice weighing the conflicting opinions of these two highly-trained experts who gave my medical documents the same thorough review. Kinda' reminds me of the Tanaka scenario. Tough choices.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 12, 2019 7:53:21 GMT -5
I'd like to also add that because "the best Orthopedic surgeon in the world" got this situation supposedly wrong (because he needed the Tommy John surgery anyway if the plan was indeed rest and rehab in this scenario), the Sox lost out on maybe a half a season in 2020, if everything breaks right.
That affects Raudes prospect status, the Sox trade value on Raudes, and minor league service time.
The best meteorologists can never really get the weather right. Is it unfair to question them too?
Add- As if this system seems like it couldn't get any worse, they lose a top 20-30 prospect just like that and he won't be back anytime soon. Ouch.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 12, 2019 8:00:26 GMT -5
I'd like to also add that because "the best Orthopedic surgeon in the world" got this situation supposedly wrong (because he needed the Tommy John surgery anyway if the plan was indeed rest and rehab in this scenario), the Sox lost out on maybe a half a season in 2020, if everything breaks right. This may surprise you, but unnecessary surgeries for a non-life-threatening injury are a worse medical outcome than waiting five months to evaluate whether someone needs surgery.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 12, 2019 8:01:50 GMT -5
I'd like to also add that because "the best Orthopedic surgeon in the world" got this situation supposedly wrong (because he needed the Tommy John surgery anyway if the plan was indeed rest and rehab in this scenario), the Sox lost out on maybe a half a season in 2020, if everything breaks right. This may surprise you, but unnecessary surgeries for a non-life-threatening injury are a worse medical outcome than waiting five months to evaluate whether someone needs surgery. It wasn't unnecessary if he wanted to continue playing baseball. It got done either way.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 12, 2019 8:13:35 GMT -5
Hadn't realized you'd seen Raudes' medical file. Anything in there you'd like to share with us?
Seriously, you're going to start second-guessing the doctors now too? You literally don't know a thing about Raudes' injury, what any of the scans showed, what any of his symptoms were, etc., but this one's on Andrews? Give me a break.
EDIT: Moved these out of the injury links thread, which isn't supposed to have discussion in it.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 12, 2019 8:23:13 GMT -5
Why can't you second guess doctors?
They aren't perfect and obviously got this call wrong (again if this is indeed the case).
This is why you get second opinions. Any knowledge of this? I'm not sure myself if he did.
I do know that it normally doesn't take a half a year to diagnose a torn ligament that needs surgery.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 12, 2019 8:30:46 GMT -5
Why can't you second guess doctors? They aren't perfect and obviously got this call wrong (again if this is indeed the case). This is why you get second opinions. Any knowledge of this? I'm not sure myself if he did. I do know that it normally doesn't take a half a year to diagnose a torn ligament that needs surgery. You can second guess doctors. If you have medical training and have looked at the same documentation the doctors have. "I know more than doctors because I say everyone who hurts his elbow should get TJ surgery and sometimes I'm right and that player does end up needing surgery" is flat-earther type stuff. You can't say "Price, Pomeranz, Tanaka, and Raudes all need surgery" and claim to be right because one of those four needed surgery. A doctor saying they need to re-evaluate after swelling subsides and then after swelling subsides the doctor saying "okay, we should go ahead with surgery" absolutely does not mean the doctor got it wrong. A doctor using incomplete information and recommending surgery just because the team is trying to make sure he's pitching again as soon as possible would be getting it wrong.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 12, 2019 8:34:21 GMT -5
Why can't you second guess doctors? They aren't perfect and obviously got this call wrong (again if this is indeed the case). This is why you get second opinions. Any knowledge of this? I'm not sure myself if he did. I do know that it normally doesn't take a half a year to diagnose a torn ligament that needs surgery. You can second guess doctors. If you have medical training and have looked at the same documentation the doctors have. "I know more than doctors because I say everyone who hurts his elbow should get TJ surgery and sometimes I'm right and that player does end up needing surgery" is flat-earther type stuff. You can't say "Price, Pomeranz, Tanaka, and Raudes all need surgery" and claim to be right because one of those four needed surgery. A doctor saying they need to re-evaluate after swelling subsides and then after swelling subsides the doctor saying "okay, we should go ahead with surgery" absolutely does not mean the doctor got it wrong. A doctor using incomplete information and recommending surgery just because the team is trying to make sure he's pitching again as soon as possible would be getting it wrong. First of all you can question any doctors opinion and seek second opinions. I'm wondering if Raudes did this. Secondly, I'm the person that suggested that swelling could have been the issue why it took so long in the first place.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 12, 2019 8:46:26 GMT -5
You can second guess doctors. If you have medical training and have looked at the same documentation the doctors have. "I know more than doctors because I say everyone who hurts his elbow should get TJ surgery and sometimes I'm right and that player does end up needing surgery" is flat-earther type stuff. You can't say "Price, Pomeranz, Tanaka, and Raudes all need surgery" and claim to be right because one of those four needed surgery. A doctor saying they need to re-evaluate after swelling subsides and then after swelling subsides the doctor saying "okay, we should go ahead with surgery" absolutely does not mean the doctor got it wrong. A doctor using incomplete information and recommending surgery just because the team is trying to make sure he's pitching again as soon as possible would be getting it wrong. First of all you can question any doctors opinion and seek second opinions. I'm wondering if Raudes did this. Secondly, I'm the person that suggested that swelling could have been the issue why it took so long in the first place. "Seeking a second opinion" is a pretty far cry from "I was right and Dr. Andrews is wrong because he should've gotten surgery five months ago."
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Feb 12, 2019 8:49:41 GMT -5
David Price is still "due for Tommy John" since his elbow had some tweaks. He'd probably be finishing rehab right now instead of basking in WS glory. It's okay to wait sometimes.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 12, 2019 8:50:33 GMT -5
I literally got mocked on here because one poster took exception to a question that I'm sure everyone else will like. Then another poster decided to take the next comment I made to said poster and turned it into something THAT COMPLETELY WASN'T THERE.
I never said I was right. I don't get that here, it's always about who's right or wrong here on this board for some odd reason. The first poster brought up examples of 2 other of pitchers not needing Tommy John surgery. I used the common example of young pitcher's comming back from Tommy John that can throw harder.
I asked a question. That's why this thread was made.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 12, 2019 8:57:33 GMT -5
There's a lot of freaking risk for a major surgery like TJS. Putting yourself through that immediately without trying other options first to avoid it is just plain irresponsible, especially for the surgeons unless it's an obvious complete tear. Surgery is always the last resort, not the first option.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 12, 2019 9:09:31 GMT -5
There's a lot of freaking risk for a major surgery like TJS. Putting yourself through that immediately without trying other options first to avoid it is just plain irresponsible, especially for the surgeons unless it's an obvious complete tear. Surgery is always the last resort, not the first option. For a young guy like Raudes, it isn't a bad risk. Even the doctors for Price said if he was younger they would have gone ahead and done the Tommy John at the time. There's some risk you never comeback, but medical research has come a long way into mitigating some of it. I'm just going to go ahead and think that Tommy John surgery or any surgery isn't a perfect thing to diagnose and leave it at that.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 12, 2019 9:27:35 GMT -5
There's a lot of freaking risk for a major surgery like TJS. Putting yourself through that immediately without trying other options first to avoid it is just plain irresponsible, especially for the surgeons unless it's an obvious complete tear. Surgery is always the last resort, not the first option. For a young guy like Raudes, it isn't a bad risk. You keep saying that.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 12, 2019 9:29:09 GMT -5
For a young guy like Raudes, it isn't a bad risk. You keep saying that. It has come a long way. I will do just that.
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Feb 12, 2019 10:10:31 GMT -5
There's a lot of freaking risk for a major surgery like TJS. Putting yourself through that immediately without trying other options first to avoid it is just plain irresponsible, especially for the surgeons unless it's an obvious complete tear. Surgery is always the last resort, not the first option. For a young guy like Raudes, it isn't a bad risk. Even the doctors for Price said if he was younger they would have gone ahead and done the Tommy John at the time. There's some risk you never comeback, but medical research has come a long way into mitigating some of it. I'm just going to go ahead and think that Tommy John surgery or any surgery isn't a perfect thing to diagnose and leave it at that. I pitched in college, had TJ when I was 19 (Mets team surgeon. Big name doc). I was never the same. It is no guarantee. I’d also like to point out it is not just “hey see you in 12-18 months.” The recovery sucks. Try living without the use of your dominant arm for a while. Then months of building strength back up to average. The pain of soft toss etc. It is not something to rush. And these doctor are great... meticulous. Questioning them is like questioning NASA about space flight. Do they make mistakes? Sure. Is Joe Blow off the street likely to be the guy to fix their calculations? I’ll let you decide. And the throwing harder thing is a myth. It can restore your natural velocity, which was probably decreasing even before you fully realized you had a problem. Just think about your lower arm as a lever, but with a slightly loose ligament decreasing its tautness. Then...bam.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 12, 2019 10:16:47 GMT -5
For a young guy like Raudes, it isn't a bad risk. Even the doctors for Price said if he was younger they would have gone ahead and done the Tommy John at the time. There's some risk you never comeback, but medical research has come a long way into mitigating some of it. I'm just going to go ahead and think that Tommy John surgery or any surgery isn't a perfect thing to diagnose and leave it at that. I pitched in college, had TJ when I was 19 If you don't mind me asking, how old are you now?
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manfred
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Post by manfred on Feb 12, 2019 11:10:39 GMT -5
I pitched in college, had TJ when I was 19 If you don't mind me asking, how old are you now? 45. I don’t think the operation has changed much, however, since the ‘90s.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Feb 12, 2019 11:19:00 GMT -5
If you don't mind me asking, how old are you now? 45. I don’t think the operation has changed much, however, since the ‘90s. Considering the rapid changes in medical research over the past 20 years, I would bet my house that you're probably not right about this, especially when it comes to pro athletes getting this surgery.
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