SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Steven Wright Suspended 80 Games for PEDs
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 6, 2019 23:21:50 GMT -5
Just what the Red Sox didn't need. A thin bullpen just got a lot thinner. And the worst part isn't that he's suspended for 80 games. It's that he's not even eligible for the post-season roster. So now the bullpen is hope that Barnes can take a big step forward, hope that Brasier doesn't regress too much and cross your fingers on everybody else. Now Brewer and Thornburg have to become highly reliable and so far Thornburg hasn't looked too good and I'm not convinced that Brewer will be consistent with his command. We know what Hembree, Velazquez, Johnson, and Workman are. This bullpen could become a major problem area. There will be a big dependence upon those kids and I think they're going to need an established reliever or two which means that some of those kids could get dealt if need be. I do think early on in this season at least there will be some games slipping out of the win column and into the loss column because of this pen and the loss of Wright exacerbates that problem. yeah, we heard that last year too. Incessantly. Last year's bullpen had Craig Kimbrel, coming off a HOF level season, in it which brought a level of certainty even if he was full of Maalox moments. They weren't sure of the bridge to Kimbrel but they knew if they got the ball into Kimbrel's hands they were in good shape. This year's Sox team doesn't even have that at the moment. I'm hoping Barnes can handle the job at the moment. I don't have as much certainty there.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 7, 2019 2:36:26 GMT -5
Steamer projected WAR Craig Kimbrel 1.4.
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Mar 7, 2019 5:22:11 GMT -5
I still think it’s silly they don’t let guys take them especially to recover from injury. It's a pretty slippery slope. Where do you draw the line? The line could be drawn in situations where they were prescribed by a Dr. within treatment but that also is a slippery slope.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 7, 2019 7:21:20 GMT -5
Just what the Red Sox didn't need. A thin bullpen just got a lot thinner. And the worst part isn't that he's suspended for 80 games. It's that he's not even eligible for the post-season roster. So now the bullpen is hope that Barnes can take a big step forward, hope that Brasier doesn't regress too much and cross your fingers on everybody else. Now Brewer and Thornburg have to become highly reliable and so far Thornburg hasn't looked too good and I'm not convinced that Brewer will be consistent with his command. We know what Hembree, Velazquez, Johnson, and Workman are. This bullpen could become a major problem area. There will be a big dependence upon those kids and I think they're going to need an established reliever or two which means that some of those kids could get dealt if need be. I do think early on in this season at least there will be some games slipping out of the win column and into the loss column because of this pen and the loss of Wright exacerbates that problem. yeah, we heard that last year too. Incessantly. Right and they caught lightning in a bottle last year with Joe Kelley, which you can do when you have actual talent in the pen. No one ever questioned Kelley or Kimbrel with regards to talent or stuff. You can get lucky or have a guy or two get hot when there’s true talent and stuff there, that becomes a lot less likely if not impossible when you don’t. It gets harder for a reliever the deeper into the series you go that’s why simply being able to over power someone plays up in the post season. Kelly and Kimbrel both throw high 90s or higher, they didn’t replace that as of now. That’s a major problem. That’s if they are even there to begin with. Add: Colton Brewer is a guy that’s actually being relied on which is pretty insane, even if it works out.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 7, 2019 9:15:07 GMT -5
yeah, we heard that last year too. Incessantly. Right and they caught lightning in a bottle last year with Joe Kelley, which you can do when you have actual talent in the pen. No one ever questioned Kelley or Kimbrel with regards to talent or stuff. You can get lucky or have a guy or two get hot when there’s true talent and stuff there, that becomes a lot less likely if not impossible when you don’t. It gets harder for a reliever the deeper into the series you go that’s why simply being able to over power someone plays up in the post season. Kelly and Kimbrel both throw high 90s or higher, they didn’t replace that as of now. That’s a major problem. That’s if they are even there to begin with. Add: Colton Brewer is a guy that’s actually being relied on which is pretty insane, even if it works out. I don't doubt that a roster of 25 all stars would be great but coming down to planet Earth, we won the division by 8 games. The Yankees have not gained 8 games on us this offseason, if anything, they have lost ground and if Sevarino's potential arm issue is a major problem, they are pretty much screwed. They haven't solved 1B, 3B defense, their catching issues or a starting staff loaded with potential issues. The playoffs allow us to use our talented starters in relief roles. I really find it difficult to see any problem here.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Mar 7, 2019 10:59:49 GMT -5
This guy is tough to root for. After his last suspension, I’d have been happy to see him go.
It also shouldn’t be seen as too big a loss. I don’t get why people act like Brewer et al. are such a wild risk but Wright was a given. Guy has a knee that they admit will never be the same, hasn’t relieved for a full season, is a rather untraditional reliever, and had already served one suspension for bad character. I never counted on him at all. Won’t miss him, either.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 7, 2019 11:25:57 GMT -5
Just what the Red Sox didn't need. A thin bullpen just got a lot thinner. And the worst part isn't that he's suspended for 80 games. It's that he's not even eligible for the post-season roster. I mean, it got a lot thinner if you really believed in Steven Wright, which frankly I don't understand why you would...
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 7, 2019 11:35:58 GMT -5
Just what the Red Sox didn't need. A thin bullpen just got a lot thinner. And the worst part isn't that he's suspended for 80 games. It's that he's not even eligible for the post-season roster. I mean, it got a lot thinner if you really believed in Steven Wright, which frankly I don't understand why you would... I believe in his ability to get major league hitters out consistently. I didn't really believe in his ability to stay healthy or avoid doing something that makes you cringe. The former is something that I believed in Wright more than most others in the current bullpen. I had hoped that even if health was an issue, they would monitor him enough to the point where he could still be a post-season weapon, but now that's gone. At best, he's a 2nd half "pickup" but you can't use him for October. That's one less roster spot. If Durbin Feltman (or name whatever unexpected guy you want) decides to become Joe Kelly circa October 2018 then fine, but if not?
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 7, 2019 11:43:00 GMT -5
Right and they caught lightning in a bottle last year with Joe Kelley, which you can do when you have actual talent in the pen. No one ever questioned Kelley or Kimbrel with regards to talent or stuff. You can get lucky or have a guy or two get hot when there’s true talent and stuff there, that becomes a lot less likely if not impossible when you don’t. It gets harder for a reliever the deeper into the series you go that’s why simply being able to over power someone plays up in the post season. Kelly and Kimbrel both throw high 90s or higher, they didn’t replace that as of now. That’s a major problem. That’s if they are even there to begin with. Add: Colton Brewer is a guy that’s actually being relied on which is pretty insane, even if it works out. I don't doubt that a roster of 25 all stars would be great but coming down to planet Earth, w e won the division by 8 games. The Yankees have not gained 8 games on us this offseason, if anything, they have lost ground and if Sevarino's potential arm issue is a major problem, they are pretty much screwed. They haven't solved 1B, 3B defense, their catching issues or a starting staff loaded with potential issues. The playoffs allow us to use our talented starters in relief roles. I really find it difficult to see any problem here. No the Yankees haven't and thankfully they're dealing with some injury issues of their own, but last time I checked all teams start 0-0 and the Red Sox 8 game lead is in the past. At the end of the season 1b wasn't an issue. Voit was hitting well. Their 3b defense was bad, but so was the Red Sox defense at 3b last year. Their catcher is capable of a better season and their rotation is a mess, but they could sign a Gio Gonzalez or somebody like that to plug in. I'm not looking for the Red Sox to be a 25 man all-star team. Having a capable bullpen is all I ask, and if you can't acknowledge that their bullpen has a ton of question marks in it, then I don't know what to tell you. Right now this team reminds me of the 2003 Red Sox. They had a dynamite offense, strong starting rotation, but a highly questionable bullpen. At least this version of the Red Sox has a fantastic manager as opposed to the simple simon they had in the manager's seat back then.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Mar 7, 2019 11:46:39 GMT -5
Right and they caught lightning in a bottle last year with Joe Kelley, which you can do when you have actual talent in the pen. No one ever questioned Kelley or Kimbrel with regards to talent or stuff. You can get lucky or have a guy or two get hot when there’s true talent and stuff there, that becomes a lot less likely if not impossible when you don’t. It gets harder for a reliever the deeper into the series you go that’s why simply being able to over power someone plays up in the post season. Kelly and Kimbrel both throw high 90s or higher, they didn’t replace that as of now. That’s a major problem. That’s if they are even there to begin with. Add: Colton Brewer is a guy that’s actually being relied on which is pretty insane, even if it works out. I don't doubt that a roster of 25 all stars would be great but coming down to planet Earth, we won the division by 8 games. The Yankees have not gained 8 games on us this offseason, if anything, they have lost ground and if Sevarino's potential arm issue is a major problem, they are pretty much screwed. They haven't solved 1B, 3B defense, their catching issues or a starting staff loaded with potential issues. The playoffs allow us to use our talented starters in relief roles. I really find it difficult to see any problem here. Umm projection systems have the Yankees above us. They have added more than we did, frankly we've lost talent while they added talent. We greatly outperformed our stats last year, that won't happen every year. They didn't need to add 8 games. You can look at their issues sure, but we have our own issues. We have the biggest whole of the two teams in our bullpen and its not even close. While it seemed crazy to count on Wright, he did have the talent if healthy to make a huge difference. You need to get to the playoffs and I want no part of a one game playoff series. Anything can happen. So this we can use our starters crap is kinda crazy. Nevermind the idea that you'll get lights out production again is very unlikely. We got lucky last year, like crazy lucky. The idea that we should just expect that going forward is mind blowing. Nevermind with a lot less talented bullpen, a bullpen that at times last year sucked. Yet like RJP said it had guys that when on were among the best relievers in Baseball. We lost two of those guys and didn't replace them. You can say Kimbrel is projected to be a 1.4 war pitcher yet he could easily be the top reliever in Baseball also. His replacements have a better chance of being the worst relievers in Baseball than the best. In a way I admire your confidence in this team. Yet the Yankees have decent to better starting pitching for the first time in years. We now have less depth than last year with the Wright suspension and he can't pitch in the postseason now.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Mar 7, 2019 11:53:50 GMT -5
Gonna be another fun season of endless Eeyore comments. Yankees are so amazing, I doubt they'll lose a game. And the Red Sox have no chance because of their bullpen, made up of bad middle school players who are always picked last on the playground.
|
|
|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Mar 7, 2019 12:31:35 GMT -5
I don't doubt that a roster of 25 all stars would be great but coming down to planet Earth, we won the division by 8 games. The Yankees have not gained 8 games on us this offseason, if anything, they have lost ground and if Sevarino's potential arm issue is a major problem, they are pretty much screwed. They haven't solved 1B, 3B defense, their catching issues or a starting staff loaded with potential issues. The playoffs allow us to use our talented starters in relief roles. I really find it difficult to see any problem here. Umm projection systems have the Yankees above us. They have added more than we did, frankly we've lost talent while they added talent. We greatly outperformed our stats last year, that won't happen every year. They didn't need to add 8 games. You can look at their issues sure, but we have our own issues. We have the biggest whole of the two teams in our bullpen and its not even close. While it seemed crazy to count on Wright, he did have the talent if healthy to make a huge difference. You need to get to the playoffs and I want no part of a one game playoff series. Anything can happen. So this we can use our starters crap is kinda crazy. Nevermind the idea that you'll get lights out production again is very unlikely. We got lucky last year, like crazy lucky. The idea that we should just expect that going forward is mind blowing. Nevermind with a lot less talented bullpen, a bullpen that at times last year sucked. Yet like RJP said it had guys that when on were among the best relievers in Baseball. We lost two of those guys and didn't replace them. You can say Kimbrel is projected to be a 1.4 war pitcher yet he could easily be the top reliever in Baseball also. His replacements have a better chance of being the worst relievers in Baseball than the best. In a way I admire your confidence in this team. Yet the Yankees have decent to better starting pitching for the first time in years. We now have less depth than last year with the Wright suspension and he can't pitch in the postseason now. I feel a bit different about the 1 game playoff this year, if that is where the guys end up. Last year's shine won't ever run off for me. It was the greatest sportsseason that I have ever had. If we have to be wildcard, I don't have the same anxiety. I would trust these guys as much as any team i have rooted for. This year, they are the hunted, that is the biggest difference
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Mar 7, 2019 12:39:36 GMT -5
In other news, Tyler Thornburg is up into the mid 90s and his secondaries are much sharper than last season according to Cora.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 7, 2019 12:52:51 GMT -5
Steamer projected WAR Craig Kimbrel 1.4. Which, for context, is third among RP.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Mar 7, 2019 13:08:44 GMT -5
Steamer also projects Kimbrel posting a 2.81 ERA in 65 innings. He had a 2.3 bWAR in 2018 posting a 2.74 ERA in 62 1/3 innings. Fangraphs "depth chart" projection has him at 2.1 WAR. I'm something of Kimbrel skeptic, but the "R" in "WAR" is the tricky thing where the Red Sox are concerned: if the Red Sox bring him back, he's probably taking innings from pitchers who are below replacement level.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 7, 2019 13:53:12 GMT -5
A quick naive question: Does Wright's salary get pro-rated for those 80 games he'll miss? I'm assuming it has to. ( Never mind... went to Spotrac and answered that question in the affirmative.)I'd also like to mention that a few projection systems had the Yankees better than the Sox last year, so I've decided not to nail that one down just yet. And as far as Wright goes, he's been good when healthy and on the field. How often has that happened, people? Anyone who was counting on him is part of a latter-day cargo cult in my opinion. The guy just hasn't delivered all that often.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 7, 2019 14:01:43 GMT -5
Gonna be another fun season of endless Eeyore comments. Yankees are so amazing, I doubt they'll lose a game. And the Red Sox have no chance because of their bullpen, made up of bad middle school players who are always picked last on the playground. What is the problem with acknowledging that the bullpen is a huge question mark? Are we at the point, because last year was the most perfect, most unbelievable everything that could work out as perfectly as possible, kind of result, is now expected as the new norm, so we can never possibly ever say the Sox have any potential weaknesses that could possible do any harm? Are we really at that point? Yeah, the Sox pen might struggle and they might still finish ahead of NY. It's possible. It's also possible that the Yankees solve their starting pitching issues well enough (sign Gio Gonzalez for instance) that things work out just right for them, too and that the Sox' struggles with their pen costs them crucial games that make the difference in the standings and force the Sox into a 1 game playoff. Hell, it's even possible that Brewer is what the Sox hope he is, Thornburg regains his Milwaukee ways, and Barnes and Brasier continue on and then some kid(s) come up and set the world on fire in Aug, Sep, and Oct. That's a viable scenario, too. Won't say it's impossible. Any of these scenarios are viable. I don't think anybody is crazy to think any of these ways or should get slammed for it.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 7, 2019 15:07:17 GMT -5
Yeah, I don't think anyone is saying the Red Sox have no chance because of the bullpen, and I don't see anyone in total awe of the Yankees.
It is completely reasonable, however, to be concerned about the bullpen depth entering the season, especially when the club just sat out a pretty flush RP market. That is much different than the strawman doom-saying you claim to be reading. When you have a club that's blowing past the first two CBT thresholds to make a run at repeating, it's just a weird place to draw the line. Pointing that out does not make one a pessimist.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 7, 2019 15:12:17 GMT -5
I'd also like to mention that a few projection systems had the Yankees better than the Sox last year, so I've decided not to nail that one down just yet. This keeps getting brought up and my question is “what difference does it make?” No matter what any projection system says any observer with half a brain and no bias can see the team’s are very close on paper and even if you lean towards one team over the other you can see a bunch of different reasons why one would finish better than the other. That’s all that matters. They are close and any deficiency could end up costing you. Be it the Sox bullpen, the Yankees starters, injuries, etc. these are two very good teams.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 7, 2019 15:26:43 GMT -5
The one the hurts the most is not giving Ottavino a very reasonable contract and watching his slider be filthy this spring.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Mar 7, 2019 16:43:53 GMT -5
Gonna be another fun season of endless Eeyore comments. Yankees are so amazing, I doubt they'll lose a game. And the Red Sox have no chance because of their bullpen, made up of bad middle school players who are always picked last on the playground. What is the problem with acknowledging that the bullpen is a huge question mark? Are we at the point, because last year was the most perfect, most unbelievable everything that could work out as perfectly as possible, kind of result, is now expected as the new norm, so we can never possibly ever say the Sox have any potential weaknesses that could possible do any harm? Are we really at that point? Yeah, the Sox pen might struggle and they might still finish ahead of NY. It's possible. It's also possible that the Yankees solve their starting pitching issues well enough (sign Gio Gonzalez for instance) that things work out just right for them, too and that the Sox' struggles with their pen costs them crucial games that make the difference in the standings and force the Sox into a 1 game playoff. Hell, it's even possible that Brewer is what the Sox hope he is, Thornburg regains his Milwaukee ways, and Barnes and Brasier continue on and then some kid(s) come up and set the world on fire in Aug, Sep, and Oct. That's a viable scenario, too. Won't say it's impossible. Any of these scenarios are viable. I don't think anybody is crazy to think any of these ways or should get slammed for it. All I'm saying is that we went through the same exact thing last year for hundreds and thousands of posts.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 7, 2019 16:50:41 GMT -5
What is the problem with acknowledging that the bullpen is a huge question mark? Are we at the point, because last year was the most perfect, most unbelievable everything that could work out as perfectly as possible, kind of result, is now expected as the new norm, so we can never possibly ever say the Sox have any potential weaknesses that could possible do any harm? Are we really at that point? Yeah, the Sox pen might struggle and they might still finish ahead of NY. It's possible. It's also possible that the Yankees solve their starting pitching issues well enough (sign Gio Gonzalez for instance) that things work out just right for them, too and that the Sox' struggles with their pen costs them crucial games that make the difference in the standings and force the Sox into a 1 game playoff. Hell, it's even possible that Brewer is what the Sox hope he is, Thornburg regains his Milwaukee ways, and Barnes and Brasier continue on and then some kid(s) come up and set the world on fire in Aug, Sep, and Oct. That's a viable scenario, too. Won't say it's impossible. Any of these scenarios are viable. I don't think anybody is crazy to think any of these ways or should get slammed for it. All I'm saying is that we went through the same exact thing last year for hundreds and thousands of posts. So does that mean that everything in 2019 is going to be exactly like everything was in 2018 and questioning anything is now taboo because 2018 worked out as perfectly as one can possibly dream of?
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Mar 7, 2019 16:57:17 GMT -5
All I'm saying is that we went through the same exact thing last year for hundreds and thousands of posts. So does that mean that everything in 2019 is going to be exactly like everything was in 2018 and questioning anything is now taboo because 2018 worked out as perfectly as one can possibly dream of? I know that no one is going to listen so go ahead and write hundreds of thousands of words about the sorry state of the Red Sox bullpen every time a run is given up. Lord help us if the bullpen blows a game against the Yankees early in the season. It started last season in game 1 when Joe Kelly blew the game and didn't stop until the playoffs were almost over. The negativity is too much for me and it's just embarrassing as a fan. The Red Sox have won 4 championships in the last 15 years so it really is time for the negativity to die for good. There is no reason for it anymore. And this year the theme will be "John Henry is cheap" even though they have the highest payroll in baseball.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Mar 7, 2019 17:05:43 GMT -5
So does that mean that everything in 2019 is going to be exactly like everything was in 2018 and questioning anything is now taboo because 2018 worked out as perfectly as one can possibly dream of? I know that no one is going to listen so go ahead and write hundreds of thousands of words about the sorry state of the Red Sox bullpen every time a run is given up. Lord help us if the bullpen blows a game against the Yankees early in the season. It started last season in game 1 when Joe Kelly blew the game and didn't stop until the playoffs were almost over. The negativity is too much for me and it's just embarrassing as a fan. The Red Sox have won 4 championships in the last 15 years so it really is time for the negativity to die for good. There is no reason for it anymore. And this year the theme will be "John Henry is cheap" even though they have the highest payroll in baseball. My first post used the word 'incessantly' for a reason.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Mar 7, 2019 17:38:14 GMT -5
So does that mean that everything in 2019 is going to be exactly like everything was in 2018 and questioning anything is now taboo because 2018 worked out as perfectly as one can possibly dream of? I know that no one is going to listen so go ahead and write hundreds of thousands of words about the sorry state of the Red Sox bullpen every time a run is given up. Lord help us if the bullpen blows a game against the Yankees early in the season. It started last season in game 1 when Joe Kelly blew the game and didn't stop until the playoffs were almost over. The negativity is too much for me and it's just embarrassing as a fan. The Red Sox have won 4 championships in the last 15 years so it really is time for the negativity to die for good. There is no reason for it anymore. And this year the theme will be "John Henry is cheap" even though they have the highest payroll in baseball. So being concerned about a potential problem area is now considered "negativity" so unless we're all rah-rah everything Red Sox, there's absolutely no point in discussing any potential issues with the Red Sox anymore? I think your ears are way too sensitive. You act like you're on the Red Sox payroll or part of the organization - like dissecting whether the pen is a strength or a weakness - is a personal affront to you. I really don't understand that. To me that's like saying we cannot discuss political issues (outside of this baseball forum) that our country has, regardless of points of views, because it's negative and un-American. Once upon a time we were the greatest Nation in the world and a lot still think so, so we cannot discuss ways we can be better or how to go about resolving issues? Because it's negative? Just wave a flag? Rah-rah. I think just as embarrassing for fandom is being arrogant and overly confident and feeling your team is above reproach no matter what. To me that describes a lot of the Yankees fanbase. As far as the "John Henry is cheap" argument, that's a straw-man argument. Nobody really thinks he's cheap. What they question really is why they weren't willing to go the last mile to bring more certainty to their pen, given that they went as far as they did and given the circumstances of the team moving forward. If this, like 2018, isn't a fire all guns in the air kind of year, then what year is? To me it's like building the most beautiful foundation and house but covering it with a questionable roof. And I hate to break the news to you, but when it comes to Championships, I'm greedy. Once upon a time I wanted just 1 Championship before I passed. Now I want to see as many freaking Championships as possible before then, even as I happily and thankfully run out of space in my Red Sox shrine room. I didn't get to live out a dream of mine - having my little boy see the Sox win it all live with me - my wife was up that night later than usual and she would have skinned me alive had I woke him up at 11pm as I planned, so damn right I want another one, especially with the way this team is set up this year. If they don't win, I'll always, always be appreciative of what they have won - I have a Red Sox shrine room to prove it, but that desire I have is every bit there - and I bet it's there with the players and coaching staff, too.
|
|
|