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gerry
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Post by gerry on May 4, 2019 12:00:01 GMT -5
Beer has always been the drink of choice on hot days, especially when the boys of summer played mostly day games in the dog days. Baseball and beer have been natural partners for longer than a century. Nat Cole’s “lazy, hazy days of summer” nails it with days of “hot dogs and beer”. Baseball games “with peanuts and crackerjacks” are relaxing entertainment and a light beer buzz helps that process. Even winemakers drink beer on hot days when they are harvesting grapes and making wine. Beer cools, is filling, and has relatively low alcohol content. Craft beers at a ball game adds to the pleasure.
On the other hand, too much of anything is really is too much. Obnoxious, foul mouthed drunks can spoil the pleasure of attending a baseball (and football) game pretty quick for players and fans, especially with kids in tow. Moderation in all things, including beer references at a family sport sounds about right.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 4, 2019 14:31:58 GMT -5
Ya right Chris, that was the first thing you thought of when you saw the name. In common usage, the word monger usually has a more extreme use like war monger or whore monger. So yes it would impart a different picture than saying beer dealer. That's still though not what I object to and I'm pretty sure you know that. Please stop trying to twist my point.
For the Brewers, I'm not overly ecstatic with the name or the names Braves, Indians or Redskins. But I'm also not a believer that you can change history by hiding it, displaying it in proper context is a better approach. As the saying goes, if we don't learn from history we're bound to repeat it.
My feelings on drinking problems haven't changed since I moved to the Philippines. Interesting article and you should read the opening paragraphs out loud. Saying we have less of a drinking problem than that the USA is roughly equivalent to saying the Red Sox have a better record than the Baltimore Orioles. I'm happy for them but that's not my basis. I've pretty much had this opinion since a year or so after college. It was a definite epiphany at the time though, I was pretty much a bad boy until then and yes, it was a bad decision I made while drunk that came close to losing my dream job that was a wake up call.
Beer and families should not have an association, period.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on May 5, 2019 4:23:42 GMT -5
That seems too extreme. I also had to make a decision to back off booze as an immortal and stupid young man, and it was a good decision. Moderation was and is key, which helped me learn moderation in most aspects of my life (Red Sox may be an exception). Booze is out there and we can’t pretend it’s not to our kids. Having them learn that it can be enjoyed intelligently is the best way we found to cope with that reality. The key with my family, adult grandkids included, was to de-emphasize it, while having it readily available for family parties and celebrations. We always have beer in the fridge and lots of wine choices. The only expectation is to enjoy in moderation in a social situation and/or with food; and to absolutely drive fully sober. So far so good, including raising a beer or hard cider or two at ball games, whether in person or televised.
Pardon my rant, but Prohibition not only didn’t work, it transformed a nation of primary wine and beer drinkers into a nation of homemade bathtub whiskey, gin and vodka drinkers. Beer, wine and hard cider had virtually disappeared along with the means to make them. It took 30 years to replant the vineyards and build wineries. The return of craft (local) beers took another 20 years, and hard ciders are just now being reborn.
We deliberately celebrate all family events with good champagne or sparkling wine. It is now a tradition, expected, fun and solemn. We wanted our family to learn about alcohol and its valid place in our history and culture, to be curious and a bit sophisticated about it, and not be blindsided by booze when they, as insecure innocents, Inevitably wound up at parties. So, while I agree about teams pushing dollar beers, as it is part of today’s pathetic “drink to get drunk” culture, IMO beer has its place in baseball, especially on hot days. Moderation in both marketing and consumption is the key, not ignoring the problem..
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 5, 2019 5:45:15 GMT -5
That seems too extreme. I also had to make a decision to back off booze as an immortal and stupid young man, and it was a good decision. Moderation was and is key, which helped me learn moderation in most aspects of my life (Red Sox may be an exception). Booze is out there and we can’t pretend it’s not to our kids. Having them learn that it can be enjoyed intelligently is the best way we found to cope with that reality. The key with my family, adult grandkids included, was to de-emphasize it, while having it readily available for family parties and celebrations. We always have beer in the fridge and lots of wine choices. The only expectation is to enjoy in moderation in a social situation and/or with food; and to absolutely drive fully sober. So far so good, including raising a beer or hard cider or two at ball games, whether in person or televised. Pardon my rant, but Prohibition not only didn’t work, it transformed a nation of primary wine and beer drinkers into a nation of homemade bathtub whiskey, gin and vodka drinkers. Beer, wine and hard cider had virtually disappeared along with the means to make them. It took 30 years to replant the vineyards and build wineries. The return of craft (local) beers took another 20 years, and hard ciders are just now being reborn. We deliberately celebrate all family events with good champagne or sparkling wine. It is now a tradition, expected, fun and solemn. We wanted our family to learn about alcohol and its valid place in our history and culture, to be curious and a bit sophisticated about it, and not be blindsided by booze when they, as insecure innocents, Inevitably wound up at parties. So, while I agree about teams pushing dollar beers, as it is part of today’s pathetic “drink to get drunk” culture, IMO beer has its place in baseball, especially on hot days. Moderation in both marketing and consumption is the key, not ignoring the problem.. I agree with that, just disagree that Beer Monger night falls withing the parameters of what you said. I also periodically drink but it's rare that we have it in our house unless it's for a food recipe. I went out and bought a pizza and a liter of beer about 3 weeks ago to watch a ballgame. As far as parties go, that's rare but more by circumstance than design. New Years Eve isn't a drinking event here and all of our other parties have the majority of attendees being from our church since my wife is president of the women's group and they are mostly non drinkers. We don't have relative parties, they are for the most part too distant (lol, thankfully). In general, among them, the men drink, the women don't. If I had sons instead of daughters that would be problematical if they lived close because things like that tend to be cyclical, at least from my view (but I've never taken the time to research if that's true mainly because it isn't my problem). I periodically buy a couple of liters of San Miguel for my construction guys but at most I have a glass of beer, I never liked drinking during the day.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 5, 2019 8:34:38 GMT -5
Here's my story on why I'm a minimal drinker.
For me, it was more a case of extremes. Through high school we lived American Graffiti except in smaller towns. My character was more like (John ?) the guy with the street rod. I played sports but didn't get along with my jock team mates who were pretty much the 'in crowd'. I was drafted (on the same day as my two best friends) and in training there isn't much time or money for social activities. I was then sent to Vietnam where pretty much everyone smoked pot or OJs (opium treated joints) during their down time but never in the field.
When I got back from Vietnam, I exited within a few days of my two best friends. That wasn't good because I had won enough money playing poker to buy a car cash and we spent 90 straight nights bar hopping. Besides all the bar fights (there were a lot) there were several times when the only reason I knew I drove home was because my car was in the driveway. We'd start every night with a shot of Wild Turkey and it pretty much went downhill from there, easily my low point.
That ended because I went to college which was pretty much pot, even in the summers when I was spending my off time with my college friends. We had the occasional dorm tequila party where everyone pretty much passed out but, mostly pot. My two drinking friends were both married by then.
After college it was more or less a gradual thing. I wasn't getting hammered but I was constantly in situations where drinking was involved. I worked for the Department of Defense and was constantly on the road. Since I represented millions or billions of potential dollars of future revenues, I pretty much got carte blanche treatment everyplace. The event which almost ended it was that I was at Boeing, Wichita and was headed to Seattle. We were in a private jet on a Friday and my accompaniment suggested we fly to Cancun for the weekend. I agreed which was a major mistake. My clearance level prohibited me from leaving the continental US without State Department clearance. The only reason I kept my job was that one of the world's top minds, Lee Stripling, was dying of Parkinsons and he requested me to pass on information to. Lee is considered the father of modern cavitation theory. If you've ever felt a fan, Lee affected your life. Lee also developed the propeller for the silent submarine which is where I met him. That assignment was exactly what I needed personally because Lee looked and was a total nerd. It was also good because it dragged on for a few months because one of Lee's ideas involved introducing him to another major mind in California (we were in Florida). Lee wanted to try something different so he hopped on the back of my motorcycle and we went to California stopping at Sturges along the way which I was planning on going to anyways. We bought helmets with microphones and he talked my ears off for 4000 miles. When we arrived in California we met with Paul Mills, considered the father of modern surface machining. If you've ever worked aerospace you've probably heard the expression 'loft surface'. That expression came from the fact that Mill's office was in the loft of a McDonnell Douglas hangar. That same loft office also housed one hell of a team, Apolotegi, Adams, Schultz and Duffy who pretty much gave us the aerospace technical advantages we have today. For the most part, I did very little drinking and after that always drank in moderation. The impellers they use on modern fire ships, the impeller on oil slick cleanup ships, the blisks they use on satellites, the air delivery system in deep mine shafts all directly or indirectly came out of that trip. (ADD: lol and a lap dance on Lee's birthday from Toy who was in the movie Striptease but that's another story).
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 5, 2019 11:49:43 GMT -5
Ya right Chris, that was the first thing you thought of when you saw the name. In common usage, the word monger usually has a more extreme use like war monger or whore monger. So yes it would impart a different picture than saying beer dealer. That's still though not what I object to and I'm pretty sure you know that. Please stop trying to twist my point. I'm sorry, but I honestly don't agree with you on this. A "fishmonger" is common usage as well and doesn't fit that definition - there are two aspects to the word. I'm not attempting to twist your words. While "monger" was a very strange (and admittedly, pretty poor in light of the concerns you bring up as well as the lack of familiarity most people would have with the word, but they had to avoid "Brewers" obviously) word choice, I guarantee you that you're in the extreme minority when you read "Beer Mongers" to be pushing the idea of excessive drinking. I understand better your feelings now, but I don't agree and don't think you're correct. At any rate, if you feel that "beer and families should not have an association," you're being illogical if you're not taking the exact same stand with Brewers. If we're not ok with a mistake, then we fix it. If you're taking a stand on Beer Mongers, you lose credibility with me if you say you'll tolerate Brewers just because it's older. At any rate, I'm out. I respect your opinion, but think it illogical. Doesn't mean anything about what I think of you as a person. Great thing about this country is we can agree to disagree.
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Post by beasleyrockah on May 5, 2019 13:24:12 GMT -5
The most common context I hear people use monger in real life is fearmonger. Fear rhymes with beer, so I think they were going for a pun. Instead of spreading fear they are spreading beer.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 5, 2019 15:16:24 GMT -5
Ya right Chris, that was the first thing you thought of when you saw the name. In common usage, the word monger usually has a more extreme use like war monger or whore monger. So yes it would impart a different picture than saying beer dealer. That's still though not what I object to and I'm pretty sure you know that. Please stop trying to twist my point. At any rate, if you feel that "beer and families should not have an association," you're being illogical if you're not taking the exact same stand with Brewers. If we're not ok with a mistake, then we fix it. If you're taking a stand on Beer Mongers, you lose credibility with me if you say you'll tolerate Brewers just because it's older. At any rate, I'm out. I respect your opinion, but think it illogical. Doesn't mean anything about what I think of you as a person. Great thing about this country is we can agree to disagree. So then is it safe to assume you would be OK with the Salem Redskins ?
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2019 15:51:19 GMT -5
Also, not logical. Chris has not said anything related to native american team names in this entire thread. Why would it be safe to assume something he has made zero statements about?
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Post by Smittyw on May 5, 2019 15:54:33 GMT -5
So where's the petition to make the "Beer Mongers" name change permanent?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 5, 2019 17:07:28 GMT -5
Also, not logical. Chris has not said anything related to native american team names in this entire thread. Why would it be safe to assume something he has made zero statements about? Because he made the statement that I was being illogical about being OK with history and the Brewers name but not with the Beer Mongers. If that's the case it's pretty much a direct analogy as far as logic goes. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be OK with the name Redskins but would be the exact same logic comparison. For me, I'm OK with any of the historic names because of context of the times. I wouldn't be OK with any of the names being added anew, it's a different time with different values. There's also the case of the law, there has never been a successful legal attempt to change a name. Courts tend to favor history over current thinking. The recent court ruling that Charlottsville cannot arbitrarily tear down historic monuments pretty much tells you what the legal view is.
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Post by jimed14 on May 5, 2019 21:57:19 GMT -5
He said that about you, not himself. For all anyone knows from what he has posted in this thread, he has your same viewpoints and he's just questioning your logic. The point is, he hasn't stated anything about native american team names.
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Post by soxfansince67 on May 5, 2019 22:14:40 GMT -5
Craft beer in NC is huge - go to see the Durham Bulls (Tampa's AAA) and there are half a dozen craft beers offered - and they actually brew it at the park. I LOVE great beer - yet I can split one bottle of a great stout with my wife on a Saturday night - and that is it for us for the week, often. But - to take the opposite view - our trips to the game have been nearly ruined by sitting near some clearly drunk fools.
There is much more to be concerned about these days than a beer promo night, in my view. MUCH more, with much more dire consequences...but that's just my two cents.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 5, 2019 23:30:37 GMT -5
He said that about you, not himself. For all anyone knows from what he has posted in this thread, he has your same viewpoints and he's just questioning your logic. The point is, he hasn't stated anything about native american team names. Yes I know he said that about me, I was drawing an analogy in a tit for tat manor.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 5, 2019 23:50:33 GMT -5
Craft beer in NC is huge - go to see the Durham Bulls (Tampa's AAA) and there are half a dozen craft beers offered - and they actually brew it at the park. I LOVE great beer - yet I can split one bottle of a great stout with my wife on a Saturday night - and that is it for us for the week, often. But - to take the opposite view - our trips to the game have been nearly ruined by sitting near some clearly drunk fools. There is much more to be concerned about these days than a beer promo night, in my view. MUCH more, with much more dire consequences...but that's just my two cents. Unfortunately baseball is one of the last bastions of mostly insulation from the sociological turmoil that is pretty much dominating the country. My opinion is that were far more split now than at any point in my lifetime and trust of journalism both left and right is pretty much in the dumpster. In my Facebook, I follow news from a lot of sources most of which are from outside of the USA. There's a vast difference of opinion from the world press than there is from either sides of the American press. Venezuela, for example, something that's a bit of a unified opinion in America, gets a totally different view from pretty much everyone else's press.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 9, 2019 2:41:39 GMT -5
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