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5/11 Gameday Thread: S-A-T-U-R-D-A-Y Night!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 12, 2019 4:28:44 GMT -5
I think you have to decide now, before other teams catch on, if there's a team that loves him. That said the Sox know better than anyone what reasons there are to think decrease in swing and miss is real, and it wouldn't take a ton to make him a decent prospect. Just to be clear here. You believe Dalbec's issues are unlikely to improve, more likely to get worse and you also believe that the Red Sox think this and that other teams scouting won't be able to see what you see ? Is that a fair assessment of what you are saying ? |
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Post by jimed14 on May 12, 2019 6:38:49 GMT -5
I think you have to decide now, before other teams catch on, if there's a team that loves him. That said the Sox know better than anyone what reasons there are to think decrease in swing and miss is real, and it wouldn't take a ton to make him a decent prospect. Teams just don't make trades like this. The first question every team would ask is why do you have to trade him now while being extremely suspicious of why they're doing it and thus not give up anything for him. It's not like other teams never heard of him, can't look up his stats and haven't ever scouted him. There are no trades based on trickery. |
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Post by soxfan511 on May 12, 2019 8:53:21 GMT -5
I always see people on this forum suggesting trading for Dalbec. Why? His k rate is dropping, B.B. rate improving, he probably has 70-75 Power. He may not become a Gallo, but I could see him becoming something similar to him
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 12, 2019 8:53:36 GMT -5
The K rate is down to a little less than 26% after last night's game. That's a big improvement over last year's which was almost 33%. He's not going to avg .300 without some kind of aberrant BABIP year, that's not who he is. But he has big patience, a good thing as he probably strikes fear into the hearts of pitching staffs everywhere with that prodigious power.
If he becomes a 30+ HR bat in the majors, and he gets on base at a 40% clip, then he's a real asset. That's before we talk about the howitzer he carries. I watched a few spring training games and caught him at third. That's a serious arm as befits his time pitching in college.
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Post by soxfan511 on May 12, 2019 8:57:01 GMT -5
The K rate is down to a little less than 26% after last night's game. That's a big improvement over last year's which was almost 33%. He's not going to avg .300 without some kind of aberrant BABIP year, that's not who he is. But he has big patience, a good thing as he probably strikes fear into the hearts of pitching staffs everywhere with that prodigious power. If he becomes a 30+ HR bat in the majors, and he gets on base at a 40% clip, then he's a real asset. That's before we talk about the howitzer he carries. I watched a few spring training games and caught him at third. That's a serious arm as befits his time pitching in college. Great stuff here. Just how high do you Grade his arm? |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on May 12, 2019 8:58:57 GMT -5
I always see people on this forum suggesting trading for Dalbec. Why? His k rate is dropping, B.B. rate improving, he probably has 70-75 Power. He may not become a Gallo, but I could see him becoming something similar to him Because the word 'fan' was originally a shortened form of the word 'fanatic'. We also have varying degrees of patience. Another factor in the eyes of some is that Dalbec is behind Devers and Chavis and therefore there won't be a place for him. Not my views but it's like politics, some people will see red, some people will see blue. If we all agreed, there wouldn't be a need for discussion. All that said, they're nuts. |
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Post by Oregon Norm on May 12, 2019 9:09:17 GMT -5
The K rate is down to a little less than 26% after last night's game. That's a big improvement over last year's which was almost 33%. He's not going to avg .300 without some kind of aberrant BABIP year, that's not who he is. But he has big patience, a good thing as he probably strikes fear into the hearts of pitching staffs everywhere with that prodigious power. If he becomes a 30+ HR bat in the majors, and he gets on base at a 40% clip, then he's a real asset. That's before we talk about the howitzer he carries. I watched a few spring training games and caught him at third. That's a serious arm as befits his time pitching in college. Great stuff here. Just how high do you Grade his arm? Hard to say without seeing him more, but he's at the right end of the scale, maybe 2 standard deviations above avg. That would be a 70, but as I said I'd like to see more. You'll want to check out his new page on the site, which has a detailed look at his defensive profile. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 12, 2019 10:51:14 GMT -5
Hi from Olympia.
The thing with Dalbec, if you check out my tweet, is he's basically gotten hot over a 6-game stretch... but with the way he can heat up, you have to take it seriously.
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Post by soxfan511 on May 12, 2019 11:29:17 GMT -5
Really exciting to see Devers raking in MLB, chavis hitting moonshots as a rookie, and now Dalbec showing big improvement. 3 big time power hitters who seem to be panning out, the future is very bright!
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Post by widewordofsport on May 12, 2019 12:01:29 GMT -5
Teams don't all see prospects the same. You may be shocked to learn some teams likely value Dalbec higher than the Red Sox do (and probably some do lower). I personally don't think he becomes an every day major leaguer, and the talk about him being a 30 HR/.400 OBP bat in the majors is absolutely insane. Since I believe that, I would say trade him to any of you who think that's crazy talk.
To say I'm wrong about Dalbec not being a future valuable MLB player, and also saying no team would trade for him, is talking out of both sides of your mouth.
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Post by widewordofsport on May 12, 2019 12:04:43 GMT -5
I think you have to decide now, before other teams catch on, if there's a team that loves him. That said the Sox know better than anyone what reasons there are to think decrease in swing and miss is real, and it wouldn't take a ton to make him a decent prospect. Just to be clear here. You believe Dalbec's issues are unlikely to improve, more likely to get worse and you also believe that the Red Sox think this and that other teams scouting won't be able to see what you see ? Is that a fair assessment of what you are saying ? A lot of people below seem to believe in Dalbec. I don't, so I say trade him to someone who does. They would say keep him. I don't know what the Red Sox think. Its not that hard if you discuss in good faith. Try it. |
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Post by jimed14 on May 12, 2019 12:16:04 GMT -5
Teams don't all see prospects the same. You may be shocked to learn some teams likely value Dalbec higher than the Red Sox do (and probably some do lower). I personally don't think he becomes an every day major leaguer, and the talk about him being a 30 HR/.400 OBP bat in the majors is absolutely insane. Since I believe that, I would say trade him to any of you who think that's crazy talk. To say I'm wrong about Dalbec not being a future valuable MLB player, and also saying no team would trade for him, is talking out of both sides of your mouth. I have this perfect car that I'll sell you for whatever you want to pay for it, but I have to get rid of it. What's your first question? |
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Post by dcb26 on May 12, 2019 14:43:24 GMT -5
Teams don't all see prospects the same. You may be shocked to learn some teams likely value Dalbec higher than the Red Sox do (and probably some do lower). I personally don't think he becomes an every day major leaguer, and the talk about him being a 30 HR/.400 OBP bat in the majors is absolutely insane. Since I believe that, I would say trade him to any of you who think that's crazy talk. To say I'm wrong about Dalbec not being a future valuable MLB player, and also saying no team would trade for him, is talking out of both sides of your mouth. I have this perfect car that I'll sell you for whatever you want to pay for it, but I have to get rid of it. What's your first question? Not sure where you saw him referring to Dalbec as "perfect" or expecting a return as if he's a "perfect" prospect (your word in your analogy.) His point, as I read it, is simply to maximize the potential return for Dalbec now, whatever that may be. I get disagreeing about Dalbec's potential future, but how do you have a problem with that logic? |
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Post by jimed14 on May 12, 2019 15:09:52 GMT -5
I have this perfect car that I'll sell you for whatever you want to pay for it, but I have to get rid of it. What's your first question? Not sure where you saw him referring to Dalbec as "perfect" or expecting a return as if he's a "perfect" prospect (your word in your analogy.) His point, as I read it, is simply to maximize the potential return for Dalbec now, whatever that may be. I get disagreeing about Dalbec's potential future, but how do you have a problem with that logic? Because teams do not shop prospects and any team that does is going to be greeted with extreme caution. Why would any team shop a prospect unless they don't like him? And given that, it destroys his trade value because why does the team that knows him best not like him and want to get rid of him? I mean find one single trade rumor ever where a team was shopping one of their top 10 prospects for the best offer. The perfect comment was just for effect, not a direct comparison to Dalbec. Any trade suggestion where the team is trying to trick other teams because they think a player is worth less than they do is just ridiculous. There are no more GMs around that are that stupid. Every single team in baseball know how risky Dalbec is because they can just look at his K rates. |
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Post by dcb26 on May 12, 2019 17:50:50 GMT -5
Not sure where you saw him referring to Dalbec as "perfect" or expecting a return as if he's a "perfect" prospect (your word in your analogy.) His point, as I read it, is simply to maximize the potential return for Dalbec now, whatever that may be. I get disagreeing about Dalbec's potential future, but how do you have a problem with that logic? Because teams do not shop prospects and any team that does is going to be greeted with extreme caution. Why would any team shop a prospect unless they don't like him? And given that, it destroys his trade value because why does the team that knows him best not like him and want to get rid of him? I mean find one single trade rumor ever where a team was shopping one of their top 10 prospects for the best offer. The perfect comment was just for effect, not a direct comparison to Dalbec. Any trade suggestion where the team is trying to trick other teams because they think a player is worth less than they do is just ridiculous. There are no more GMs around that are that stupid. Every single team in baseball know how risky Dalbec is because they can just look at his K rates. Yes, teams do have at least a general idea of the value of their prospects and what they're worth in a trade, without actively shopping them. It is perfectly reasonably to say "trade someone for whatever they're worth now before they're worth less later" unless you either don't think prospects *ever* increase or decrease in value, or think every team scouts and values every prospect the exact same. |
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Post by jimed14 on May 12, 2019 18:55:53 GMT -5
Because teams do not shop prospects and any team that does is going to be greeted with extreme caution. Why would any team shop a prospect unless they don't like him? And given that, it destroys his trade value because why does the team that knows him best not like him and want to get rid of him? I mean find one single trade rumor ever where a team was shopping one of their top 10 prospects for the best offer. The perfect comment was just for effect, not a direct comparison to Dalbec. Any trade suggestion where the team is trying to trick other teams because they think a player is worth less than they do is just ridiculous. There are no more GMs around that are that stupid. Every single team in baseball know how risky Dalbec is because they can just look at his K rates. Yes, teams do have at least a general idea of the value of their prospects and what they're worth in a trade, without actively shopping them. It is perfectly reasonably to say "trade someone for whatever they're worth now before they're worth less later" unless you either don't think prospects *ever* increase or decrease in value, or think every team scouts and values every prospect the exact same. Tell me the last time a team traded a top 10 prospect for someone they didn't need. Just one example and I'll shut up. Otherwise, we're just talking about imaginary things that never happen which is my opinion on the suggestion. IF the Red Sox did think they needed someone at this point of the season and tried to push Dalbec to trade for that player, then it is possible, but that isn't what we're talking about right now, which is "dump this guy before other teams figure out he's not that good" which is a surefire way to not get anything of value for him which is why it will not happen and should not happen. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on May 13, 2019 0:59:29 GMT -5
Two different things being discussed here:
Whether to trade Dalbec now before he does or doesn't get over matched by pitching at a given level - fair enough discussion
Whether to trade Dalbec now before other teams realize his hit tool might not be sufficient for MLB - incredibly silly for reasons stated above
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