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Post by Guidas on Jul 5, 2019 14:06:15 GMT -5
As we grow closer and closer to the Trade Deadline - and with the Sox having definite needs - which prospects do you think are the Sox 1 to 3 "untouchables," and who are your personal top 3? This is all stated with the caveat that 1) no one is truly untouchable if a very good or elite MLB player with more than a few months of control becomes available; 2) Dave Dombrowski will deal almost anyone if the "right" deal presents itself.
My guess is the Sox Front Office Untouchables are:
Dalbec Mata Casas
My personal Untouchables: Dalbec Casas Duran
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 5, 2019 14:07:57 GMT -5
The prospect most likely to not be traded would be Groome, because he doesn't have much present value but can easily become worth 10 times as much.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 5, 2019 14:16:35 GMT -5
The prospect most likely to not be traded would be Groome, because he doesn't have much present value but can easily become worth 10 times as much. I discounted him because he's still on the DL.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 5, 2019 14:22:17 GMT -5
As we grow closer and closer to the Trade Deadline - and with the Sox having definite needs - which prospects do you think are the Sox 1 to 3 "untouchables," and who are your personal top 3? This is all stated with the caveat that 1) no one is truly untouchable if a very good or elite MLB player with more than a few months of control becomes available; 2) Dave Dombrowski will deal almost anyone if the "right" deal presents itself. My guess is the Sox Front Office Untouchables are: Dalbec Mata Casas My personal Untouchables: Dalbec Casas Duran I don't think Dalbec is getting dealt at the deadline, but I don't think he's untouchable at all. I think he's the prototype of a player who does get dealt by Dombrowski, and by that I mean, I think he's going to be considered "surplus" at some point this winter if the Red Sox decide to trade for a young starting pitcher who can take Porcello's spot. Otherwise unless they plan on using Chavis at 2b and wasting Dalbec's arm at 1b in 2020, I don't see Dalbec sticking around. With Devers playing 3b like a superstar on both offense and defense, Dalbec is prime trade bait, and even though I like him and hope he winds up playing 1b for the Sox in 2020, he's just as likely to be dealt. I agree that Mata and Casas are going nowhere. I don't expect Duran to go as I would anticipate that he's probably JBJ's successor in CF. I hope Jimenez doesn't go. I could see him being requested a lot. I don't think Darwinzon Hernandez goes. The Sox really love his arm. I think the Sox will display more patience with Feltman as well. I think Houck is the most vulnerable pitcher as far as being dealt goes. Guys like Ward or Crawford could be considered expendable in a deal for a starter/reliever. I imagine Chatham could go as well.
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Post by Smittyw on Jul 5, 2019 14:33:53 GMT -5
*Ennio Morricone intensifies*
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 5, 2019 14:42:28 GMT -5
As we grow closer and closer to the Trade Deadline - and with the Sox having definite needs - which prospects do you think are the Sox 1 to 3 "untouchables," and who are your personal top 3? This is all stated with the caveat that 1) no one is truly untouchable if a very good or elite MLB player with more than a few months of control becomes available; 2) Dave Dombrowski will deal almost anyone if the "right" deal presents itself. My guess is the Sox Front Office Untouchables are: Dalbec Mata Casas My personal Untouchables: Dalbec Casas Duran Honestly for me it's just Casas. The Dombrowski move would be to flip Mata for a mature MLB pitcher who seems to be entering his peak, and while it obviously depends on the return, I wouldn't hate that. Duran is maybe in a second tier of like... less touchable? It's not so much that I'm in love with him as a prospect, it's the lack of OF depth that makes him more important to the organization. I'd want to get a return substantially better than his generic market value if he were moved.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 5, 2019 15:02:23 GMT -5
As we grow closer and closer to the Trade Deadline - and with the Sox having definite needs - which prospects do you think are the Sox 1 to 3 "untouchables," and who are your personal top 3? This is all stated with the caveat that 1) no one is truly untouchable if a very good or elite MLB player with more than a few months of control becomes available; 2) Dave Dombrowski will deal almost anyone if the "right" deal presents itself. My guess is the Sox Front Office Untouchables are: Dalbec Mata Casas My personal Untouchables: Dalbec Casas Duran Honestly for me it's just Casas. The Dombrowski move would be to flip Mata for a mature MLB pitcher who seems to be entering his peak, and while it obviously depends on the return, I wouldn't hate that.
Duran is maybe in a second tier of like... less touchable? It's not so much that I'm in love with him as a prospect, it's the lack of OF depth that makes him more important to the organization. I'd want to get a return substantially better than his generic market value if he were moved. Agree in principle, but it would have to be a Jon Gray-type who has control rather than a rental. I'd also much rather trade pitchers in packages for pitchers.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,929
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Post by cdj on Jul 5, 2019 17:35:57 GMT -5
Mata was allegedly untouchable back in the day, I imagine with him throwing 98 with life in AA that has not changed
Casas
Everybody else is very much in play imo. I like Dalbec and am impressed with his season but I can easily see him being moved for a premium reliever or a good starter
Maybe Gilberto but he’s so far away that I could still see him moved in the right deal
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Post by beavertontim on Jul 5, 2019 18:38:15 GMT -5
For the right deal anyone is touchable. Those deals may not ever materialize, but everything and every player does have a price.
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Post by caseytins on Jul 5, 2019 18:56:49 GMT -5
As we grow closer and closer to the Trade Deadline - and with the Sox having definite needs - which prospects do you think are the Sox 1 to 3 "untouchables," and who are your personal top 3? This is all stated with the caveat that 1) no one is truly untouchable if a very good or elite MLB player with more than a few months of control becomes available; 2) Dave Dombrowski will deal almost anyone if the "right" deal presents itself. My guess is the Sox Front Office Untouchables are: Dalbec Mata Casas My personal Untouchables: Dalbec Casas Duran My untouchables would be in order: 1) Mata 2) Casas Those two would take something huge for me to deal. 3) Darwinzon 4) Dalbec I would be hesitant to trade these two, but honestly, it would just depend on the deal. Who knows how the front office is thinking. I read an article today on MLB said the team was looking at starting pitching. I'm sure that link has been shared in another thread on this board.
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Post by m1keyboots on Jul 5, 2019 19:23:54 GMT -5
Great thread and I suppose the answers may change depending on need following this postseason. For right now though I'd think Casas and Hernandez are "untouchable". Casas for obvious reasons and all the time they've put into a lefty arm like Darwinzon. I do imagine both of them could go for a certain type of pitcher.
Someone else mentioned it before, but I don't think Durran is untouchable, I don't think a guy like Mata is, or Dalbec.
It really all depends on circumstance. If the big league squad doesn't make a run many of those guys are untouchable imo.
I'm really excited about a guy like Darwinzon though. We've got some pretty good lefties and he could chose which to learn from at this point. There's three styles between them and three or even four great offspeed pitches to copy/learn/tweak into his own.
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Post by manfred on Jul 5, 2019 22:30:16 GMT -5
One in the hand is worth two in the bush. I was fine with the Pomeranz trade, so I’m fine with just about anything. Prospects, especially young pitchers, are risks. To be able to get proven production for promise is something I’d do any time. The glory of being the Red Sox is that you can let small market teams develop guys and then sign free agents. So using prospects for trades is a luxury they can afford.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 5, 2019 23:15:03 GMT -5
As we grow closer and closer to the Trade Deadline - and with the Sox having definite needs - which prospects do you think are the Sox 1 to 3 "untouchables," and who are your personal top 3? This is all stated with the caveat that 1) no one is truly untouchable if a very good or elite MLB player with more than a few months of control becomes available; 2) Dave Dombrowski will deal almost anyone if the "right" deal presents itself. My guess is the Sox Front Office Untouchables are: Dalbec Mata Casas My personal Untouchables: Dalbec Casas Duran I don't think Dalbec is getting dealt at the deadline, but I don't think he's untouchable at all. I think he's the prototype of a player who does get dealt by Dombrowski, and by that I mean, I think he's going to be considered "surplus" at some point this winter if the Red Sox decide to trade for a young starting pitcher who can take Porcello's spot. Otherwise unless they plan on using Chavis at 2b and wasting Dalbec's arm at 1b in 2020, I don't see Dalbec sticking around. With Devers playing 3b like a superstar on both offense and defense, Dalbec is prime trade bait, and even though I like him and hope he winds up playing 1b for the Sox in 2020, he's just as likely to be dealt. I agree that Mata and Casas are going nowhere. I don't expect Duran to go as I would anticipate that he's probably JBJ's successor in CF. I hope Jimenez doesn't go. I could see him being requested a lot. I don't think Darwinzon Hernandez goes. The Sox really love his arm. I think the Sox will display more patience with Feltman as well. I think Houck is the most vulnerable pitcher as far as being dealt goes. Guys like Ward or Crawford could be considered expendable in a deal for a starter/reliever. I imagine Chatham could go as well. I think I pretty much agree with everything you wrote here. Every word.
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Post by Addam603 on Jul 6, 2019 5:16:19 GMT -5
Casas Mata Darwinzon Jimenez Duran
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Post by dmaineah on Jul 6, 2019 5:54:30 GMT -5
There are no untouchables (including Chavis).
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 6, 2019 17:58:05 GMT -5
With Dombrowski, you always have to eorrry about the 2nd, 3rd, plus prospects he throws in a deal. This team is not built to win in 2019 with horrible starting pitching, brutal bullpen and down years by Betts, Martinez, Benintendi, etc. No reason to mortgage the future to eek out a wild card opportunity.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 6, 2019 18:32:37 GMT -5
There are no untouchables (including Chavis). Yes, that is stipulated un the lead post.
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Post by soxfan511 on Jul 6, 2019 19:09:59 GMT -5
Mata is certainly untouchable. A 20 year old with good height and length who hits 98 with movement, plus has two other good pitches, and has a high Gb rate
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Post by soxfan511 on Jul 6, 2019 19:11:53 GMT -5
One in the hand is worth two in the bush. I was fine with the Pomeranz trade, so I’m fine with just about anything. Prospects, especially young pitchers, are risks. To be able to get proven production for promise is something I’d do any time. The glory of being the Red Sox is that you can let small market teams develop guys and then sign free agents. So using prospects for trades is a luxury they can afford. How were you ok with that trade? We traded a pitcher whom Sox prospects scouting staff described as “top of the rotation ACE potential with 3 plus pitches” for an average lefty having an outlier season who had 1 good pitch (Curve), a low 90s average FB and nothing else..plus a sketchy medical report. we got lucky the egg didn’t end up in our face
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Post by manfred on Jul 6, 2019 19:21:55 GMT -5
One in the hand is worth two in the bush. I was fine with the Pomeranz trade, so I’m fine with just about anything. Prospects, especially young pitchers, are risks. To be able to get proven production for promise is something I’d do any time. The glory of being the Red Sox is that you can let small market teams develop guys and then sign free agents. So using prospects for trades is a luxury they can afford. How were you ok with that trade? We traded a pitcher whom Sox prospects scouting staff described as “top of the rotation ACE potential with 3 plus pitches” for an average lefty having an outlier season who had 1 good pitch (Curve), a low 90s average FB and nothing else..plus a sketchy medical report. we got lucky the egg didn’t end up in our face Pomeranz had one more very good year than it looks like the hypothetical “top of rotation” guy will ever give the Padres.
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Post by dirtdog on Jul 6, 2019 20:57:53 GMT -5
Trading Houck makes little sense. The team is desperate for cheap quality pitching. Have to be more than an 8th inning reliever in return.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jul 6, 2019 22:30:31 GMT -5
One in the hand is worth two in the bush. I was fine with the Pomeranz trade, so I’m fine with just about anything. Prospects, especially young pitchers, are risks. To be able to get proven production for promise is something I’d do any time. The glory of being the Red Sox is that you can let small market teams develop guys and then sign free agents. So using prospects for trades is a luxury they can afford. How were you ok with that trade? We traded a pitcher whom Sox prospects scouting staff described as “top of the rotation ACE potential with 3 plus pitches” for an average lefty having an outlier season who had 1 good pitch (Curve), a low 90s average FB and nothing else..plus a sketchy medical report. we got lucky the egg didn’t end up in our face This is revisionist history on both Espinoza and Pomeranz. Yeah, Pomeranz had the medical stuff but he put together some pretty good seasons pre-Boston. And while Espinoza was an exciting prospect who definitely could've been great if he had put it all together without injury, he was still only 18 when he was traded. We have no idea what his development could've been like. Yeah, it sucked to see him get traded and it would've been fun to see his progress in the Red Sox system but it made sense.
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Post by sparkygian on Jul 7, 2019 0:36:10 GMT -5
1) Casas 2) Duran 2b) Mata 4) D. Diaz, Flores, Howlett, and other late-teens that haven't played enough professional baseball yet for Sox to know what to even accurately value them at.
Most Likely to be traded:
1) Dalbec 2) Shawaryn 3) Chatham
Player I'd most like to see be traded for a good, controllable, and relatively young, eighth or ninth-inning reliever, or starting pitcher:
1) D. Hernandez .............. seems like he's a good candidate to be someone who never is able to really harness his stuff accurately enough to be a high-leverage reliever, much less a reliable starting pitcher.
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Post by bcpatsox18 on Jul 7, 2019 18:58:49 GMT -5
I wouldn’t trade Casas, Mata, or Duran for anyone less than a star, under 28 age player. Dumbrowski has traded all of our good prospects, many unnecessarily as add ons to trades where the other team was already getting enough value back (dubon, Allen, etc). We can’t afford to keep moving young guys with potential for relievers and leftovers. Casas looks like the real deal, mata has been unbelievable since he was signed, and Duran looks like the likely replacement for jbj. I would trade Dalbec in a heart beat, I don’t think he’ll ever hit enough to be more than a Todd Frazier type and I’m all set with Mendoza line players regardless of their power.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 7, 2019 21:43:03 GMT -5
Imagine how good Devers and Benintendi could have been had they not been traded away.
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