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Post by dmaineah on Jul 17, 2019 7:00:34 GMT -5
I think Chris Sale is pitching hurt and at some point in the near future when the Sox are truly out of it he will be shut down for the year. Then next spring he will try to pitch again where the injury will really surface and he will then miss the entire year.
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Post by sparkygian on Jul 17, 2019 7:14:16 GMT -5
Seemed for two years like Price was pitching hurt, and I kept thinking he was going to be needing TJ surgery, but then he rebounded last year at just the right time, and has been pretty good ever since. I'm hoping Sale is just going through a tough stretch like Price's tough stretch two years ago. It seems that Sale wants to ramp up his fastball velo. to the upper 90's, when he's pretty much unhittable over last few years, including a stretch of three or four games this year, but is unable to sustain it. This year he's only been able to maintain that overpowering stuff for just a handful of games, and already seems like he's hit his peak effectiveness 'wall', which usually he doesn't hit until September. I do think he's hurt.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 17, 2019 7:14:29 GMT -5
If he's hurt it's likely recent. Before 2 starts ago there was an argument about how awesome Sale really was in his last 80 or so innings.
I voted yes, but leaning no now. I think he might be getting bothered by his ERA, lack of pitching wins and the team's performance. Chris Sale is the ultimate gamer and he's never been this ineffective for this long.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 17, 2019 9:47:21 GMT -5
He was hitting 97 in his last start FFS. It's the ball. The lack of seams is killing his slider.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 17, 2019 9:57:07 GMT -5
He was hitting 97 in his last start FFS. It's the ball. The lack of seams is killing his slider. He was dominate 6/5, 6/10, and 6/15. IIRC, you were saying his FIP and SIERA numbers were in-line with the pitcher he truly is a couple of starts ago over the past 80 or so innings. Unless they changed the ball or he learned, then forgot, how to grip the new baseballs, I don't think that's it. I haven't heard anyone around the team trying to make this claim and they're literally putting his teammates with him during his bullpen sessions now to try and figure out what's going on with him: Chris Sale's bullpen draws an unusual crowd as Red Sox try to fix struggling LHP |
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Post by patford on Jul 17, 2019 22:13:04 GMT -5
I don't think he is currently hurt. He just isn't the kind of shut down ace the Sox thought he was. He lacks the kind of command a true ace has. And, as we know, he wears down in the 2nd half. Almost certainly because he is 6' 6'' and weighs 180 lbs. How a person who is 6' 6" can weigh 180 lbs I can't imagine. It does not sound healthy. At that height even 200 lbs would be decidedly thin.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 18, 2019 8:42:13 GMT -5
I don't think he is injured but if we're all speculating here, I think that unless he throws 99 MPH fastball consistently he won't be that top notch pitcher he was last June/July, and if the does throw it 99 MPH consistently he won't be healthy long enough for it to matter.
This doesn't mean he can't be a really good pitcher, but with his FB at 92/93 it's not the same weapon, and I do believe that long layoff messed up some of his muscle memory and that his angles on his pitches are off slightly so the slider hasn't been quite as it was as consistently.
That's my uneducated uninformed opinion anyways.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 18, 2019 9:40:58 GMT -5
So like, I know posting on a message board requires a certain level of speculation, but is there any way we can actually have an informed discussion on this topic?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 18, 2019 13:54:07 GMT -5
Can this thread be locked now?
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Post by incandenza on Jul 18, 2019 13:54:51 GMT -5
Looks like Sale is uninjured again.
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pd
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Post by pd on Jul 18, 2019 14:37:35 GMT -5
Looks like Sale is uninjured again. It's a miracle. |
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 18, 2019 15:44:22 GMT -5
I think that his previous outing showed clear signs of fatigue, as I broke it down in the game thread.
Of all people, I should be the first to recognize that this can happen in any given start if you had a bad night's sleep. Disrupted sleep is likely to result in bad mechanics / inability to repeat your delivery. Too little sleep is going to make you run out of gas. After the first few innings in that start, Sale had both problems.
The sort of situations that can mess up your sleep do tend to persist over a stretch of days. I'm not saying that even a majority of pitching or hitting slumps are caused by bad sleep, but it's always something to consider and avoid trying to over-react to.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 18, 2019 21:19:26 GMT -5
Drop in velocity is there, but he's done this in the past. He's also worn down in the past too though.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 19, 2019 11:04:49 GMT -5
Drop in velocity is there, but he's done this in the past. He's also worn down in the past too though. He also hit 97 yesterday so it's clearly on purpose to give him more command and stamina. |
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 19, 2019 11:19:22 GMT -5
"He needs to pace himself more."
***paces himself more***
"His average velocity is down."
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 19, 2019 12:24:37 GMT -5
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Post by hammerhead on Jul 19, 2019 12:34:54 GMT -5
There is no way the sox medical staff would allow this investment named Sale pitch hurt.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 19, 2019 13:10:54 GMT -5
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jul 19, 2019 13:23:56 GMT -5
Can we also take for a grain of salt who he was pitching against? That Blue Jays team have a lot of problems offensively.
25th in runs scored
30th in BA
29th in OBP
23rd in SLG
26th in OPS
15th in HR
23rd in K
18th in BB
With his average decrease in velo (even if he did dial it up at the very end) and say he gives up a walk, single and a HR to Cody Bellinger and goes 5.0 IP there would likely be continued debate on this.
I'm not sure if he is or isn't, but his stellar performance needs to also come with a small asterisk of who he was throwing against. I'm not saying that if he gets lit up by NY that means for sure he's hurt either.
In fact, like I mentioned earlier, I think his problems are purely mental right now with a mix of slightly diminished stuff. This was his first home win in over a year. He's a fierce competitor.
Edit: Also, juiced baseballs aren't helping either, but other "aces" have dealt with it.
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Post by dmaineah on Aug 18, 2019 2:31:32 GMT -5
I think Chris Sale is pitching hurt and at some point in the near future when the Sox are truly out of it he will be shut down for the year. Then next spring he will try to pitch again where the injury will really surface and he will then miss the entire year. 1 month to the day Hopefully they do the surgery in the next few weeks and he is only out through 2020 and not just shut him down and then next spring it becomes an issue early in the season and they wait even more and then do surgery come June and he misses the rest of this year, all of 2020 & doesn't come back until September of 2021. |
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 18, 2019 3:05:30 GMT -5
I think Chris Sale is pitching hurt and at some point in the near future when the Sox are truly out of it he will be shut down for the year. Then next spring he will try to pitch again where the injury will really surface and he will then miss the entire year. 1 month to the day Hopefully they do the surgery in the next few weeks and he is only out through 2020 and not just shut him down and then next spring it becomes an issue early in the season and they wait even more and then do surgery come June and he misses the rest of this year, all of 2020 & doesn't come back until September of 2021. You're doing good on predictions this year my man. Lol |
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 18, 2019 4:09:44 GMT -5
1 month to the day Hopefully they do the surgery in the next few weeks and he is only out through 2020 and not just shut him down and then next spring it becomes an issue early in the season and they wait even more and then do surgery come June and he misses the rest of this year, all of 2020 & doesn't come back until September of 2021. You're doing good on predictions this year my man. Lol Somehow I don’t feel like laughing, not even a tiny bit. |
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Post by orion09 on Aug 18, 2019 10:29:07 GMT -5
I think Chris Sale is pitching hurt and at some point in the near future when the Sox are truly out of it he will be shut down for the year. Then next spring he will try to pitch again where the injury will really surface and he will then miss the entire year. 1 month to the day Hopefully they do the surgery in the next few weeks and he is only out through 2020 and not just shut him down and then next spring it becomes an issue early in the season and they wait even more and then do surgery come June and he misses the rest of this year, all of 2020 & doesn't come back until September of 2021. Thoughts on shorting oil? |
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