SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
|
Post by ramireja on Jul 19, 2019 12:21:35 GMT -5
Let’s start a thread for our first (second round) pick in the 2019 MLB Draft, Mr. Cameron Cannon. Immediately after the pick, many including myself saw the pick as a 'safe' high floor, low upside pick that didn’t stir up a ton of excitement. For me personally, after the seeing how the signings played out, I grew to really like the pick in the context of the entire draft. Signing Cannon early in the 2nd round while generating over $400K in savings to allocate toward high ceiling/low floor types (e.g., Lugo, Bell, Loubier) I think made for a well rounded draft that balances safety and risk quite well. Also, I do wonder if Cannon’s upside might be greater than most think. I’ll get to that in a minute.
We’re only a handful of professional games into Cannon’s professional career and he started in the GCL for a brief rehab assignment where he clearly needed to regain his timing. That said, he had his best professional game yesterday going 3 for 4 with a 2B, a BB, and 5 RBIs. Here’s to hoping he rakes moving forward. If he didn’t miss a little time after signing, I’d be more confident in saying he should reach Greenville at some point this summer and should begin next year in Salem. I still think he has a chance to do that, but even if he doesn’t, I anticipate him spending most of next year in High-A (if not reaching AA like Duran did this year).
Ok, some people hate player comps. They’re rarely flawless and it’s easy to point out where things are different. This one isn’t flawless either but there are noticeable similarities and I’m put it out there. The following are stats from two players’ collegiate junior years playing as middle infielders in the Pac-10/Pac-12.
Player A: 218 AB, .390 BA, .419 BABIP, 13.0 BB%, 10.7 K%, .248 ISO (29 2B, 2 3B, 7 HR) Player B: 244 AB, .393 BA, .392 BABIP, 15.9 BB%, 5.0 K%, .218 ISO (24 2B, 1 3B, 9 HR)
Many of you may have guessed the other player….Player A is Cameron Cannon and Player B is Dustin Pedroia. Before you jump on me, I’m NOT projecting Cameron Cannon to be Dustin Pedroia. Heck, I don’t even consider Pedey as a very reasonable ceiling for Cannon. One place where the comparison falls flat (and likely separates the two) is that Cannon’s approach numbers are very good to excellent, whereas Pedroia’s are truly elite/ridiculous. Throughout college, Cannon put up BB%s between 9%-14% with K%s between 8%-11%, whereas Pedroia put up BB%s between 9%-16% (similar to Cannon) but with absurd K%s between 4%-7%. For Pedey, we know that translated into K%s generally between 7%-12% in the majors with a lifetime BA at basically .300.
I do think if Cannon can reach the majors as someone with K% between 13%-17% he could generally be something like a .280 hitter with a solid BB% and sneaky power (Pedey I think is a good ISO comp for Cannon). Defensively, its hard to say what he may become, but I do anticipate him playing mostly 2B (with positional versatility to play SS and 3B in a pinch), and although he struggled at SS for Arizona, scouting reports typically note defensive actions to become an adequate or even above average 2B. His upside may not be that of a 5-7 WAR type of player but there probably is 3-4 WAR type upside which is pretty considerable for a guy with a floor as high as his.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,689
Member is Online
|
Post by nomar on May 19, 2021 12:24:05 GMT -5
Bumping this as his play so far warrants some discussion
Really glad to see him get off to a hot start. He’s been largely forgotten after his slow pro start and then the year off due to covid, but maybe he’ll put himself on the map.
The big question for me is if he can cut down on Ks. When he got drafted I figured contact would be a given for him and while it isn’t an issue, it hasn’t been impressive either (20% K rate so far and only 8% BB).
Given his college track record and the weak state of 2B as a position, I think he is going to be one to watch.
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on May 19, 2021 12:37:06 GMT -5
I think a 20% K-rate is actually pretty impressive at this point. The average in his league is 29%. Strikeout levels are off the charts the further down you go in the minors.
|
|
|
Post by RedSoxStats on May 19, 2021 12:46:07 GMT -5
20% Strikeout Rate ranks 19th lowest in the league. 80% Contact Rate on swings is 10th highest. (94 qualified hitters)
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,689
Member is Online
|
Post by nomar on May 19, 2021 12:50:38 GMT -5
20% Strikeout Rate ranks 19th lowest in the league. 80% Contact Rate on swings is 10th highest. (94 qualified hitters) Sheesh that changes my perspective lol thanks as always
|
|
|
Post by thegoodthebadthesox on May 19, 2021 13:11:48 GMT -5
20% Strikeout Rate ranks 19th lowest in the league. 80% Contact Rate on swings is 10th highest. (94 qualified hitters) Do they have EV info at that level too? Seems like he's not only hitting the ball more but driving it harder.
|
|
|
Post by RedSoxStats on May 19, 2021 13:32:50 GMT -5
20% Strikeout Rate ranks 19th lowest in the league. 80% Contact Rate on swings is 10th highest. (94 qualified hitters) Do they have EV info at that level too? Seems like he's not only hitting the ball more but driving it harder. That's not public but I'm sure it'll leak out at some point when people start asking scouts about him.
|
|
mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,752
Member is Online
|
Post by mobaz on May 20, 2021 7:47:28 GMT -5
Love seeing the bat come around. It'll be fascinating to see what the team does with him if he keeps it up. Jeter Downs is 2 levels higher and younger than him, Nick Yorke has a similar profile and would be nipping at his heels at 2B. Doesn't sound like Cannon would profile well as a Utility guy; draftmate Lugo would potentially be a better option there. Long way off, but would Cannon end up in a Chavis zone of backing up the right side of the infield or left field? Given all this, is he a prime trade candidate given his pedigree and position redundancy?
|
|
|
Post by sibbysisti on May 20, 2021 8:48:01 GMT -5
Saw him up close last week in Greenville. e looked confident with two hits including a HR. Played SS without a hitch.
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on May 20, 2021 9:58:23 GMT -5
This is the kind of hitter he was expected to be. It's one more example of why putting much value on the A- results for players was always dubious.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on May 20, 2021 12:22:30 GMT -5
Saw him up close last week in Greenville. e looked confident with two hits including a HR. Played SS without a hitch. On the field part, I note that only 2 of his 12 starts have been at short (2 at DH, 8 at 2B, plus one game subbing for Santana at 2B). I feel like if the club thought he had a shot to stick at short, he'd be splitting time there with Koss at least rather than mostly deferring. Really nice start to the year for him, though, as a guy who really needed it.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on May 20, 2021 17:13:02 GMT -5
Saw him up close last week in Greenville. e looked confident with two hits including a HR. Played SS without a hitch. On the field part, I note that only 2 of his 12 starts have been at short (2 at DH, 8 at 2B, plus one game subbing for Santana at 2B). I feel like if the club thought he had a shot to stick at short, he'd be splitting time there with Koss at least rather than mostly deferring. Really nice start to the year for him, though, as a guy who really needed it. And right on cue, he's at short tonight with Koss at second.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on May 20, 2021 20:12:08 GMT -5
Pulling this out of Gameday, 5/19: Because that’s how bad he looked after he was drafted. He quite literally didn’t do anything at even an average level. It’s looking like he’s about to change that projection though OK well then why did the Sox invest a second rd pk along with 1.3 to secure this guy? Seriously that scouting report is based on very little when pared with the cost the Sox and their scouting dept were willing to spend. Cannon looked bad in Lowell and at Instructs both in 2019 and 2020. We also note the following in his scouting report: "Has not shown the potential at the plate the Red Sox envisioned when they drafted him. If he can show the upside offensively he did coming out of college, projection could change quickly. Early returns from 2021 will tell a lot about where his development is going." He was INSANELY aggressive in Lowell - one scout counted and he swung at the first pitch in like 15 consecutive at-bats. His swing also looked brutal, but as we note in his scouting report, the organization was apparently tweaking it. The above quote basically acknowledges that if the swing changes take and he figures it back out, then yeah, the projection could change quickly (not in-the-first-three-weeks quickly, mind you). I mean, teams make bad picks. Cannon wouldn't be the first bad Red Sox second round pick. He also has plenty of time to not be.
|
|
|
Post by Ryanod1 on Jul 12, 2021 9:41:10 GMT -5
So, is Cameron Cannon potentially becoming a thing now? He's looked good this year, and hopefully he can keep it up. His K rate almost seems like a typo. I would be less impressed if he was just getting seeing eye single stuff, but he's getting the XBH. In over 200 at bats a 10% k rate is insane for anyone....not to mention 0 K's looking.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 12, 2021 11:27:09 GMT -5
He's been kind of streaky.
5/05-5/26: 85 PA, .321/.365/.564, 7 2B, 4 HR, 15.3% K%, 5.9% BB%, .339 BABIP 5/27-6/24: 102 PA, .229/.275/.281, 5 2B, 0 HR, 7.8% K%, 3.9% BB%, .250 BABIP 6/27-7/11: 53 PA, .360/.396/.520, 5 2B, 1 HR, 5.7% K%, 1.9% BB%, .370 BABIP
He's still incredibly aggressive, which I don't love, and the HR power appears to have disappeared. But he's making contact. He's not striking out but that's probably in part due to how aggressive he is. I'd actually prefer that he see more pitches and strike out looking on occasion, to be honest.
|
|
|
Post by Ryanod1 on Jul 12, 2021 19:04:50 GMT -5
He's been kind of streaky. 5/05-5/26: 85 PA, .321/.365/.564, 7 2B, 4 HR, 15.3% K%, 5.9% BB%, .339 BABIP 5/27-6/24: 102 PA, .229/.275/.281, 5 2B, 0 HR, 7.8% K%, 3.9% BB%, .250 BABIP 6/27-7/11: 53 PA, .360/.396/.520, 5 2B, 1 HR, 5.7% K%, 1.9% BB%, .370 BABIP He's still incredibly aggressive, which I don't love, and the HR power appears to have disappeared. But he's making contact. He's not striking out but that's probably in part due to how aggressive he is. I'd actually prefer that he see more pitches and strike out looking on occasion, to be honest. That makes sense. Does seem to be a big drop in power. I guess being ultra aggressive will do this. Basically, swing at anything in the strike zone whether its his pitch or not. He still gets points for getting a bat on the ball so often, but getting your pitch is more important. If he can barrel the ball often at least theres something there that can be fixed with just more patience.
|
|
|
Post by bosoxnation on Aug 9, 2021 2:13:01 GMT -5
Shouldn’t this guy get called up? Already 300 ABs and he’s 23. Seems like it’s a no brainer to me.
|
|
|
Post by Addam603 on Aug 9, 2021 5:08:49 GMT -5
Shouldn’t this guy get called up? Already 300 ABs and he’s 23. Seems like it’s a no brainer to me. To Portland? Sure, you could make that argument. If Yorke gets to Greenville, it should be a chain to send Cannon up a level too. If you mean called up fo the big leagues, then that’s absolutely insane.
|
|
radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,194
|
Post by radiohix on Aug 9, 2021 8:54:02 GMT -5
Shouldn’t this guy get called up? Already 300 ABs and he’s 23. Seems like it’s a no brainer to me.
|
|
ematz1423
Veteran
Posts: 5,270
Member is Online
|
Post by ematz1423 on Aug 9, 2021 9:46:06 GMT -5
Maybe this comment should go in the nick Yorke thread but with Cameron cannon going up to Portland I would have to think Yorke up to Greenville may be coming shortly? Either way good to see cannon making a little bit of noise and heading up to Portland.
|
|
|
Post by bosoxnation on Aug 9, 2021 13:34:09 GMT -5
Shouldn’t this guy get called up? Already 300 ABs and he’s 23. Seems like it’s a no brainer to me. am i good or what!
|
|
|