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Mariano Rivera and Politics
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Post by manfred on Jul 26, 2019 13:39:00 GMT -5
OK, my bad on the birther. I have no idea then what the mobs were screaming about at the Kavanaugh hearings. Whether or not Trump is a bigot does not make Trump supporters bigots. If you prefer to just use facts, the employment rates and wage gap between minorities and whites is far smaller under Trump than under Obama. The white guy thing swings both ways. The EU's ICC and the UN's Human Rights Watch which are pretty clearly left wing organizations have never investigated or prosecuted a white guy. ANTIFA is currently the most violent group in America. Should I think that Obama supporters encourage nuclear proliferation because of Iran and North Korea ? If you supported Obama then is it fair to call you a nuclear proliferation proponent ? Cmon. This is a baseball board. We do stats. ANTIFA is by no metric the most violent group in America. They have killed.... no one. No bombs. No desecration of holy places. Right wing groups? Check, check, check.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 26, 2019 13:49:01 GMT -5
OK, my bad on the birther. I have no idea then what the mobs were screaming about at the Kavanaugh hearings. Whether or not Trump is a bigot does not make Trump supporters bigots. If you prefer to just use facts, the employment rates and wage gap between minorities and whites is far smaller under Trump than under Obama. The white guy thing swings both ways. The EU's ICC and the UN's Human Rights Watch which are pretty clearly left wing organizations have never investigated or prosecuted a white guy. ANTIFA is currently the most violent group in America. Should I think that Obama supporters encourage nuclear proliferation because of Iran and North Korea ? If you supported Obama then is it fair to call you a nuclear proliferation proponent ? Cmon. This is a baseball board. We do stats. ANTIFA is by no metric the most violent group in America. They have killed.... no one. No bombs. No desecration of holy places. Right wing groups? Check, check, check. This is a ridiculous way to look at the world. Everyone is an individual and they are responsible only for their own actions, not for the extreme actions of the extreme members of the convenient little box that you put them in to give further evidence for your agenda. And that's true for everyone on all sides no matter what we're talking about. Not everyone who does X or looks like X has beliefs Y and Z. If there's anything that I've learned over the last 20 years is that the individual has died and everyone is lazily defined by the actions of the groups they're put into. It's such garbage. And this is why I f'ing hate politics. There is no honest debate, and the people debating it don't even realize how clueless they are about it. They're just repeating mantras about people in boxes that they don't even belong in. I'm not singling only you out, it's also for philsbosoxfan or for anyone who argues partisan politics at all. I mean how f'ing stupid is it when I put it like this. "Oh you voted for X, so I know everything about you." That's what 90% of people believe now. I wish we could get a new Sun Tzu book for the present day Art of War. Because it's being played out brilliantly and just about everyone is falling for all of the tactics. The whole damn world has been divided and now we're all conquered, wasting time arguing with each other so that no one blames the collective assholes running the world no matter what party they belong to. I dream of the day when 100% of Americans say "I'm fed up with corruption and money in politics so I'm not voting until that is fixed". They would then have no choice but to fix it because of credibility problems. But it'll never happen while we're only blaming each other. That's why divide and conquer is effective. But go on and keep calling each other communists and nazis. That helps.
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Post by fenwaydouble on Jul 26, 2019 14:12:44 GMT -5
Cmon. This is a baseball board. We do stats. ANTIFA is by no metric the most violent group in America. They have killed.... no one. No bombs. No desecration of holy places. Right wing groups? Check, check, check. This is a ridiculous way to look at the world. Everyone is an individual and they are responsible only for their own actions, not the actions of the convenient little box that you put them in to give further evidence for your agenda. And that's true for everyone on all sides no matter what we're talking about. Not everyone who does X or looks like X has beliefs Y and Z. If there's anything that I've learned over the last 20 years is that the individual has died and everyone is lazily defined by the actions of the groups they're put into. It's such garbage. And this is why I f'ing hate politics. There is no honest debate, and the people debating it don't even realize how clueless they are about it. They're just repeating mantras about people in boxes that they don't even belong in. I'm not singling only you out, it's also for philsbosoxfan or for anyone who argues partisan politics at all. I mean how f'ing stupid is it when I put it like this. "Oh you voted for X, so I know everything about you." That's what 90% of people believe now. I wish we could get a new Sun Tzu book for the present day Art of War. Because it's being played out brilliantly and just about everyone is falling for all of the tactics. The whole damn world has been divided and now we're all conquered, wasting time arguing with each other so that no one blames the collective assholes running the world no matter what party they belong to. I dream of the day when 100% of Americans say "I'm fed up with corruption and money in politics so I'm not voting until that is fixed". They would then have no choice but to fix it because of credibility problems. But it'll never happen while we're only blaming each other. That's why divide and conquer is effective. There's a point where the groups you associate with DO say say something about you though. Like, I'm pretty comfortable saying I want nothing to do with an active Klan member or neo-Nazi or something like that. I personally don't have any interest in cutting all Trump supporters out of my life, but I also kind of get it when Hispanics take it personally when some white guy brushes off Trump's racism because the economy is doing okay.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 26, 2019 14:17:56 GMT -5
Agreed (jimed). The other question is, does it really matter ? Does Trump being a racist change anyone's mind on racism ? I don't doubt that he's racist but if I had to go back and revote, I'd vote Trump again because he's better for the country than Hillary would have been (my opinion).
Better example. Bill Clinton. I still think Bill Clinton was a good President (except for his Supreme Court picks). The economy was strong, foreign policy was good. Bill was an adulterer. Does that make me an adulterer ? If I could go back in time and vote again, I'd vote the same even though I think he's a sleezebag because he was good for the country and that's the more important issue.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 26, 2019 14:36:48 GMT -5
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 26, 2019 14:40:14 GMT -5
This is a ridiculous way to look at the world. Everyone is an individual and they are responsible only for their own actions, not the actions of the convenient little box that you put them in to give further evidence for your agenda. And that's true for everyone on all sides no matter what we're talking about. Not everyone who does X or looks like X has beliefs Y and Z. If there's anything that I've learned over the last 20 years is that the individual has died and everyone is lazily defined by the actions of the groups they're put into. It's such garbage. And this is why I f'ing hate politics. There is no honest debate, and the people debating it don't even realize how clueless they are about it. They're just repeating mantras about people in boxes that they don't even belong in. I'm not singling only you out, it's also for philsbosoxfan or for anyone who argues partisan politics at all. I mean how f'ing stupid is it when I put it like this. "Oh you voted for X, so I know everything about you." That's what 90% of people believe now. I wish we could get a new Sun Tzu book for the present day Art of War. Because it's being played out brilliantly and just about everyone is falling for all of the tactics. The whole damn world has been divided and now we're all conquered, wasting time arguing with each other so that no one blames the collective assholes running the world no matter what party they belong to. I dream of the day when 100% of Americans say "I'm fed up with corruption and money in politics so I'm not voting until that is fixed". They would then have no choice but to fix it because of credibility problems. But it'll never happen while we're only blaming each other. That's why divide and conquer is effective. There's a point where the groups you associate with DO say say something about you though. Like, I'm pretty comfortable saying I want nothing to do with an active Klan member or neo-Nazi or something like that. I personally don't have any interest in cutting all Trump supporters out of my life, but I also kind of get it when Hispanics take it personally when some white guy brushes off Trump's racism because the economy is doing okay. Do you or anyone you know belong to a neo-Nazi group or the Klan? Or Antifa? I need to be convinced it's not a bunch of made up bullshit with paid actors these days just to divide people even more (and get people to call all liberals communists and all Trump voters nazis). In any event, the extreme fringe of society does not define anything normal whatsoever despite what the media would have you believe. I'm talking more along the lines of who you vote for, or race or religion. These are things that define almost nothing about an individual, yet they are used continually to define everyone's beliefs about everything. That leaves us with the end debate of who would you rather have running your government? A communist or a nazi? That's really useful debate.
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Post by manfred on Jul 26, 2019 14:46:51 GMT -5
Agreed (jimed). The other question is, does it really matter ? Does Trump being a racist change anyone's mind on racism ? I don't doubt that he's racist but if I had to go back and revote, I'd vote Trump again because he's better for the country than Hillary would have been (my opinion). Better example. Bill Clinton. I still think Bill Clinton was a good President (except for his Supreme Court picks). The economy was strong, foreign policy was good. Bill was an adulterer. Does that make me an adulterer ? If I could go back in time and vote again, I'd vote the same even though I think he's a sleezebag because he was good for the country and that's the more important issue. It doesn’t make you an adulterer. It makes you someone who thinks Clinton’s adultery is less important in balance than a good economy, especially since not a single one of his policies was pro-adultery. Voting for him didn’t make you an Arkansan either. Voting for Trump doesn't make you racist (though if you were racist, you voted for Trump along with the gleeful David Duke, Stormfront, etc). But it means you don’t think racism (or sexual assault) are as important as low interest rates. And... in Trump’s case, racism IS part of his Presidential package. It also means you don’t mind him buddying up with Putin (or asking for his help on national tv before the election). Now, Americans seem to forget this, but Putin is either the worst or second worst person in the world, a many-time war criminal, a guy who staged terror attacks in Moscow, who has had journalists and dissidents killed... but Trump is harder on American civil servants than on him. Cool. This, to me, is why Trump and his voters are qualitatively different from Romney voters, W. voters etc. It does speak to one’s values. Politics is about compromise, so you always have to shrug some stuff off. But you also have to have principles you don’t ever shrug off. For me, I can’t shrug off racism, sexual assault, dubious patriotism, undermining democracy, chumming around with killers, exploiting your office for personal gain , etc. Hopefully this is my last on this.
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Post by manfred on Jul 26, 2019 14:53:31 GMT -5
There's a point where the groups you associate with DO say say something about you though. Like, I'm pretty comfortable saying I want nothing to do with an active Klan member or neo-Nazi or something like that. I personally don't have any interest in cutting all Trump supporters out of my life, but I also kind of get it when Hispanics take it personally when some white guy brushes off Trump's racism because the economy is doing okay. Do you or anyone you know belong to a neo-Nazi group or the Klan? Or Antifa? I need to be convinced it's not a bunch of made up bullshit with paid actors these days just to divide people even more (and get people to call all liberals communists and all Trump voters nazis). In any event, the extreme fringe of society does not define anything normal whatsoever despite what the media would have you believe. I'm talking more along the lines of who you vote for, or race or religion. These are things that define almost nothing about an individual, yet they are used continually to define everyone's beliefs about everything. That leaves us with the end debate of who would you rather have running your government? A communist or a nazi? That's really useful debate. Part of my job involves studying neo-Nazis. They are real as can be. Here’s a question: people talk about actors at shootings, riots etc. The refrain is prove this is real. Can anyone show that ANY event in America was faked? In other words, isn’t the suggestion of some conspiracy to fake stuff itself based on a false premise?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 26, 2019 15:00:10 GMT -5
Here's a small example of why I hate politics.
The world's economy is completely controlled by central banks. Does this ever get discussed? Nope. Does any candidate have an opinion on this? Nope. Will anything at all be done to prevent central banks from rigging the economy for their benefit? Nope. Will endless wars be fought in order to keep the US dollar the world's reserve currency? Yep. Will the economy crash again after being artificially propped up after the last two crashes (dot com and the housing crisis)? Yep. Will the endless debt ever be reigned in before it's absolutely impossible to pay back? Nope, because all of the money in the world would disappear since money no longer exists without corresponding debt. The only way for the economy to grow is with expanding debt. It doesn't take a doctorate in economics to understand that this is not sustainable whatsoever and the death of the dollar and a world economic collapse is what happens in the end. Only predicting that date is difficult, but predicting that it will happen is an absolute certainty.
But people care about one million times more about stupid Trump tweets than the entire economy. And people still think that every president deserves all the credit or blame for the economy.
When Trump is no longer president, nothing important will get fixed.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 26, 2019 15:02:40 GMT -5
Do you or anyone you know belong to a neo-Nazi group or the Klan? Or Antifa? I need to be convinced it's not a bunch of made up bullshit with paid actors these days just to divide people even more (and get people to call all liberals communists and all Trump voters nazis). In any event, the extreme fringe of society does not define anything normal whatsoever despite what the media would have you believe. I'm talking more along the lines of who you vote for, or race or religion. These are things that define almost nothing about an individual, yet they are used continually to define everyone's beliefs about everything. That leaves us with the end debate of who would you rather have running your government? A communist or a nazi? That's really useful debate. Part of my job involves studying neo-Nazis. They are real as can be. Here’s a question: people talk about actors at shootings, riots etc. The refrain is prove this is real. Can anyone show that ANY event in America was faked? In other words, isn’t the suggestion of some conspiracy to fake stuff itself based on a false premise? Yes, there is tons of fake stuff out there. But I'm not going to get into that argument with someone who is programmed to believe that conspiracy theories are never true. Go on and watch the evening news and believe everything you see. And don't forget to get your flu shot.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jul 26, 2019 15:04:15 GMT -5
Good grief...😑
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Post by manfred on Jul 26, 2019 15:08:18 GMT -5
Part of my job involves studying neo-Nazis. They are real as can be. Here’s a question: people talk about actors at shootings, riots etc. The refrain is prove this is real. Can anyone show that ANY event in America was faked? In other words, isn’t the suggestion of some conspiracy to fake stuff itself based on a false premise? Yes, there is tons of fake stuff out there. But I'm not going to get into that argument with someone who is programmed to believe that conspiracy theories are never true. Go on and watch the evening news and believe everything you see. And don't forget to get your flu shot. “Programmed.” Teehee. Me...am...robot.... Would I be cool if I told you I hope there is a Loch Ness Monster?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 26, 2019 15:22:12 GMT -5
Yes, there is tons of fake stuff out there. But I'm not going to get into that argument with someone who is programmed to believe that conspiracy theories are never true. Go on and watch the evening news and believe everything you see. And don't forget to get your flu shot. “Programmed.” Teehee. Me...am...robot.... Would I be cool if I told you I hope there is a Loch Ness Monster? The most obvious response ever. This is so off topic at this point. Regardless of you believing everything you're told on the news, people are still individuals responsible only for their own actions. They are not responsible for the actions of other people that you associate them with. They also can have their own beliefs that you might not even know before talking to them. The same people obsessed with hating Trump for racism reasons also completely stereotype every single person they disagree with. It's so hypocritical. Everyone is an individual and this worship of belonging to groups needs to end.
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Post by manfred on Jul 26, 2019 15:25:22 GMT -5
“Programmed.” Teehee. Me...am...robot.... Would I be cool if I told you I hope there is a Loch Ness Monster? The most obvious response ever. This is so off topic at this point. Regardless of you believing everything you're told on the news, people are still individuals responsible only for their own actions. They are not responsible for the actions of other people that you associate them with. They also can have their own beliefs that you might not even know before talking to them. You sound like Eichmann’s defense attorney. “Your honor, my client made train schedules. How people chose to use those trains are not his responsibility.”
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 26, 2019 15:27:01 GMT -5
The most obvious response ever. This is so off topic at this point. Regardless of you believing everything you're told on the news, people are still individuals responsible only for their own actions. They are not responsible for the actions of other people that you associate them with. They also can have their own beliefs that you might not even know before talking to them. You sound like Eichmann’s defense attorney. “Your honor, my client made train schedules. How people chose to use those trains are not his responsibility.” I sound like me and only me. If I took a political quiz and you guessed my answers for it, I guarantee, you'd get most of them wrong. And that's not hard, because I'm always picking None of the above because I will always come up with an alternative answer.
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Post by manfred on Jul 26, 2019 15:51:33 GMT -5
You sound like Eichmann’s defense attorney. “Your honor, my client made train schedules. How people chose to use those trains are not his responsibility.” I sound like me and only me. If I took a political quiz and you guessed my answers for it, I guarantee, you'd get most of them wrong. And that's not hard, because I'm always picking None of the above because I will always come up with an alternative answer. I have so many questions. Who pays the crisis actors? How are they hired? Is there a secret bank of thousands of actors who get coded messages? Do they have to keep it secret from their families? Why don’t those families ever say, “hey! That guy in Charlottesville is my brother! He’s a struggling dancer from Brooklyn, not an anti-Semitic tiki torcher!”? Why doesn’t James Alex Fields blow the whistle rather than going to jail for life? Or was the trial fake? Is the JUDGE fake? Where does the conspiracy end? Who is in on it besides a few intrepid internet users and Alex Jones? Where do the Cato Streeters meet? Where do all these payments go? I mean, the neo Nazi group based near me lived in dumpy trailers. Why didn’t they use their payments to upgrade? How is it that the government leaks like sieve but no one says anything about these imposters? What is the endgame? Who benefits? Is this related to the Templars? The Illuminati? Jesuits? Freemasonry? The Protocols of the Elders of Zion? The Fourth International? Salem witches? Gnostics? Mary Magdalene’s marriage to Jesus? The lost tribe?
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 26, 2019 17:13:34 GMT -5
Jesus christ, ignored.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 26, 2019 18:48:19 GMT -5
Here's a small example of why I hate politics. The world's economy is completely controlled by central banks. Does this ever get discussed? Nope. Does any candidate have an opinion on this? Nope. Will anything at all be done to prevent central banks from rigging the economy for their benefit? Nope. Will endless wars be fought in order to keep the US dollar the world's reserve currency? Yep. Will the economy crash again after being artificially propped up after the last two crashes (dot com and the housing crisis)? Yep. Will the endless debt ever be reigned in before it's absolutely impossible to pay back? Nope, because all of the money in the world would disappear since money no longer exists without corresponding debt. The only way for the economy to grow is with expanding debt. It doesn't take a doctorate in economics to understand that this is not sustainable whatsoever and the death of the dollar and a world economic collapse is what happens in the end. Only predicting that date is difficult, but predicting that it will happen is an absolute certainty. But people care about one million times more about stupid Trump tweets than the entire economy. And people still think that every president deserves all the credit or blame for the economy. When Trump is no longer president, nothing important will get fixed. No one talks about it because what you think isn't close to reality. You are giving central Banks powers they just don't have. The US central bank doesn't control the US governments spending or debt limits, that is Congress. There is nothing wrong with debt in Capitalism, it's called investment. Debt gets reigned in when it gets too high, the cost sky rockets and hence limits your ability to keep growing it. A novice looks at something like the US debt and just sees a huge number. When in reality the figure that matters is your debt to GDP ratio, as long as that stays the same your ability to repay the debt doesn't change.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 27, 2019 1:30:56 GMT -5
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Post by manfred on Jul 27, 2019 7:32:27 GMT -5
Imagine what conservative media thinks? You just quoted the the Post and the WSJ... that is conservative media. And what a surprise that Cassidy and Cruz want them declared domestic terrorists. I’m not saying antifa are sweethearts, but the last time the left was the more dangerous political side in America was the 1970s. Now we see Dylan Roofs, Tim McVeighs, Charlottesville, etc. And, as one of your articles points out, antifa is barely an organization at all. Anyone who wants to can say I’m with them. So it is basically a broad term the right uses to discredit left protests.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jul 27, 2019 11:47:30 GMT -5
No really. I thought we had a no politic policy on this board that was implemented specifically because threads the OP has started.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 27, 2019 11:56:39 GMT -5
The boards description litterally says no restrictions off-topic discussion anything within reason.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jul 27, 2019 12:17:35 GMT -5
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 27, 2019 12:24:38 GMT -5
This is not global news and politics, this is USA news and politics and when the thread was created, it specifically says "Mariano Rivera and Politics".
There's no requirements for anybody to read any thread.
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Post by swingingbunt on Jul 27, 2019 12:31:10 GMT -5
You know a slash means "or" right? Meaning global news OR politics are no longer welcome on the board. As in, if the powers that be reverses course and now allows this type of trash on their board, then I will never return/donate to the site again.
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