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8/2-8/4 Red Sox @ Yankees Series Thread
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 5, 2019 15:09:05 GMT -5
Who said sign Cole now? It's basically impossible, isn't it? Unless you lose other big salary(ies)? Basically can't be done so the Cole discussion is over before it ever started. Doesn’t matter. My point is Price was a shiny toy. Sale next. Now people somehow imagine letting Sale walk (before knowing he’d have a down year) and getting Cole instead. I’m still good with the Sale contract, but maybe in principle signing pitchers to contracts that pay big deep into their 30sis exceedingly high risk? Most people expected Price to dominate the front years of good contract and to fade in the later years. The hope was he'd dominate the first 3 years then opt out, but that didn't happen. He won a ring so his contract is validated. Sale won a ring, but was given an extension after. He didn't really seem like the priority (Xander and Betts) and after how the last two seasons it seemed best to wait to see how the 3rd season ended now that he's going to be 31. I think Cole could be good for a few years, if you're ok with suffering for a couple.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 5, 2019 15:12:46 GMT -5
Who said sign Cole now? It's basically impossible, isn't it? Unless you lose other big salary(ies)? Basically can't be done so the Cole discussion is over before it ever started. Doesn’t matter. My point is Price was a shiny toy. Sale next. Now people somehow imagine letting Sale walk (before knowing he’d have a down year) and getting Cole instead. I’m still good with the Sale contract, but maybe in principle signing pitchers to contracts that pay big deep into their 30sis exceedingly high risk? Yeah but Sale had issues last year. ANd when I joined here - I learned about "violent delivery." Heck I can remember going back and forth with someone who was scared to death from the get-go because of potential injury due to his delivery. We were going back and forth as to whether we liked the trade. The point is-- I think the trade was needed because Price was no longer price and was unsure about Porcello. So yeah now going forward Im concerned about Price and Sale similar to year's before. For next year we do have again a tremendous hitting lineup potentially returning so I would have liked someone safer than Sale. Cole seemed like a better safe bet than Sale. Hey who knows COle's arm could breakdown too - I get it. It's just that sale had red flags prior ot coming on here and at the end of last year they were magnified.
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Post by manfred on Aug 5, 2019 15:16:44 GMT -5
Doesn’t matter. My point is Price was a shiny toy. Sale next. Now people somehow imagine letting Sale walk (before knowing he’d have a down year) and getting Cole instead. I’m still good with the Sale contract, but maybe in principle signing pitchers to contracts that pay big deep into their 30sis exceedingly high risk? Most people expected Price to dominate the front years of good contract and to fade in the later years. The hope was he'd dominate the first 3 years then opt out, but that didn't happen. He won a ring so his contract is validated. Sale won a ring, but was given an extension after. He didn't really seem like the priority (Xander and Betts) and after how the last two seasons it seemed best to wait to see how the 3rd season ended now that he's going to be 31. I think Cole could be good for a few years, if you're ok with suffering for a couple. This is hindsight. If Sale replicated last season, he’d cost a fortune. How many people said “ooo... bad call... guy will be way off in ‘19?” I’d guess no one. So you gamble you lock him in before his value gets crazy. Cole would be good... like Price? Who knows? Without Sale, no way Price gets that ring. For all the redemption narrative, he was more a piece than a leader. All I’m saying is it is fine to worry the contract won’t work out. To suggest that it was a bad idea requires a bit of fudging the historical record.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 5, 2019 15:18:44 GMT -5
Who said sign Cole now? It's basically impossible, isn't it? Unless you lose other big salary(ies)? Basically can't be done so the Cole discussion is over before it ever started. Doesn’t matter. My point is Price was a shiny toy. Sale next. Now people somehow imagine letting Sale walk (before knowing he’d have a down year) and getting Cole instead. I’m still good with the Sale contract, but maybe in principle signing pitchers to contracts that pay big deep into their 30sis exceedingly high risk? It is definitely high risk, but given MLB rules there are really only three options: 1) Develop your own pitching talent. (For whatever reason, Sox have been unable to do this.) 2) Trade prospects for a cost-controlled starter. (This is how we got Sale in the first place.) 3) Sign a free agent deep into their 30s. Partly because we already did this with Sale, #2 is off the table - don't have the prospects for it. And #1 would would be great, but, well... So #3 it is.
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Post by gerry on Aug 5, 2019 15:21:44 GMT -5
I do think the MFY series is a paradigm shifter in terms of how I will try (key word...try) to view the remaining games. Watching to see if they mail it in/ go through the motions, win a few/ lose a few and just play out the string, or push to right the ship and actually nab a playoff spot . Seeing if Mookie's play gives a hint of staying or going...which leaders will emerge if they can get fired up again. Watching to see who Cora does/doesn't play. Etc.... At least, that's my plan. Any passion I have for the 2019 Red Sox is gone. Now I'm more concerned about the future. I figure that 2020 should be an in-between of 2018 and 2019, but really that depends on Sale, Price, and Eovaldi. Those guys really are the key to 2020 and beyond. If we get injuries/mediocrity, it's going to be hard for the Red Sox to be a 95 win team, especially if the Sox are trying to duck underneath the luxury tax limit to reset in 2020. The farm system is improving, but there's no next core immediately waiting. If not dealt, Dalbec has a role. Duran could be on the way. Mata and Houck will contribute at some point. And I do think Casas will continue to improve. But there's very little in the way of impact - a top of the rotation type pitcher, a middle of the order caliber masher - the kind with Dalbec's power that has a good hit tool to go along with it. That's not in place so I'm not sure how they reshape things going forward. I am confident that the 2020 Red Sox will both reset the cap and compete for the Division. I agree that “there is no next core immediately waiting” but am not really concerned about the immediacy issue. Beni, Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Brockstar, Chavis, Devers, Lin, Marco, Vasquez make an exceptional homegrown core for 2020, even stronger if JDM doesn’t opt out. -The 2019 team is hitting like a playoff team, just out of synch, not always consistent. That will change. -JDM is one key to this. If he opts out, he needs to and will be replaced. Probably an Abreu or Incarnacion type, which is stilll pretty good with the homegrown core returning. -Like Chavis and Devers before him, Dalbec has had to overcome a number of issues, has made good progress, and is now in AAA. While all three young sluggers have very different skillsets, all continue to improve. Even without a high BA, I hope to see if he can hit 30-40 bombs at Fenway with reasonable k/bb ratios, a decent OBP, and good glove and arm at 1B. What a win that would be. Trading him could be hugely dumb, and unnecessary. Warts and all, he could be an immediate asset. -I agree that Duran could make an immediate impact sometime in 2020. He is adjusting to AA. He could soon add great speed and energy to what has been (but not in 2019) a great baserunning and base-stealing group, which is part of what’s missing this season. The sooner the better. -We can bet that fixing the pitching will be the team’s priority for 2020. Meanwhile, are we really convinced that neither Sale nor Price can regress to the norm, that Eovaldi is not a starter, that ERod has reached his peak even as he enters his prime, that a strong #3-5 won’t be available, that pitching coaching won’t be thoroughly addressed? -Isn’t it likely that DDo will find that elusive RP; and that one or more of Brasier, Houck, Shawaryn, Lakins, Feltman, Brewer will step up; and that a core Pen of Barnes, Workman, Darwinzon, Taylor, Wright, Johnson, Velasquez is a good base? Even a depressing season like this is full of excitement and promise (Devers, Chavis, Vasquez, Barnes, Workman, Darwinzon, Walden, Dalbec, Duran, Mata, etc.) Meanwhile, 2019 ain’t over and a WC remains possible. And I expect 2020 to be more like 2018. Energized. Dynamic. Fun. Relentless. In synch. With some personnel shakeups, but maintaining most of the homegrown core while adding both prospects and veterans. So, for about the 70th time in my life, since feeling the pain of the 1946 WS loss as a little kid, I say with more confidence than in almost any prior season “Wait ‘til next year.”
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Post by manfred on Aug 5, 2019 15:26:00 GMT -5
Doesn’t matter. My point is Price was a shiny toy. Sale next. Now people somehow imagine letting Sale walk (before knowing he’d have a down year) and getting Cole instead. I’m still good with the Sale contract, but maybe in principle signing pitchers to contracts that pay big deep into their 30sis exceedingly high risk? Yeah but Sale had issues last year. ANd when I joined here - I learned about "violent delivery." Heck I can remember going back and forth with someone who was scared to death from the get-go because of potential injury due to his delivery. We were going back and forth as to whether we liked the trade. The point is-- I think the trade was needed because Price was no longer price and was unsure about Porcello. So yeah now going forward Im concerned about Price and Sale similar to year's before. For next year we do have again a tremendous hitting lineup potentially returning so I would have liked someone safer than Sale. Cole seemed like a better safe bet than Sale. Hey who knows COle's arm could breakdown too - I get it. It's just that sale had red flags prior ot coming on here and at the end of last year they were magnified. This would be more germane if he was on the IL or if he was throwing 89. He’s not. His fastball is down (1.9 mph), but he still gets it up rapidly when he needs it. He is striking out 13 per 9, so velocity seems irrelevant. We can argue his future but won’t know until, er, the future. It is tough to call his decline precipitous, though. His Ks are high. His BABIP is 35 points over last year, which might mean bad luck (or better wood, yes). One striking thing is his HR/9 is 3x what it was last year. That strikes me as substantial. And his walks are up. As we saw the other day, that may or may not be all his fault. I am optimistic. I’ll go further: I bet Sale is more productive over the life of his contract than Cole will be on his next contract.
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Post by coachmac on Aug 5, 2019 15:32:55 GMT -5
[quote Sorry to INC and redsoxdon and coach... - I was certain I was right but dead wrong. No problem Soxjim. I enjoy a passionate discussion about the Sox. At least there no names called or insults hurled.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 5, 2019 15:45:19 GMT -5
Most people expected Price to dominate the front years of good contract and to fade in the later years. The hope was he'd dominate the first 3 years then opt out, but that didn't happen. He won a ring so his contract is validated. Sale won a ring, but was given an extension after. He didn't really seem like the priority (Xander and Betts) and after how the last two seasons it seemed best to wait to see how the 3rd season ended now that he's going to be 31. I think Cole could be good for a few years, if you're ok with suffering for a couple. This is hindsight. If Sale replicated last season, he’d cost a fortune. How many people said “ooo... bad call... guy will be way off in ‘19?” I’d guess no one. So you gamble you lock him in before his value gets crazy. Cole would be good... like Price? Who knows? Without Sale, no way Price gets that ring. For all the redemption narrative, he was more a piece than a leader. All I’m saying is it is fine to worry the contract won’t work out. To suggest that it was a bad idea requires a bit of fudging the historical record. There were grumblings at the time he signed. I felt the AAV for what he got wasn't much of a discount. Considering how the market hasn't been friendly to starting pitching recently, I highly doubt he gets much more than 30. He'd have to be incredibly electric and then only maybe does he get a higher number. He faded after getting 300k and then was breaking down late last year. Sale was an incredible trade, but the extension is questionable.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 5, 2019 15:58:03 GMT -5
Yeah but Sale had issues last year. ANd when I joined here - I learned about "violent delivery." Heck I can remember going back and forth with someone who was scared to death from the get-go because of potential injury due to his delivery. We were going back and forth as to whether we liked the trade. The point is-- I think the trade was needed because Price was no longer price and was unsure about Porcello. So yeah now going forward Im concerned about Price and Sale similar to year's before. For next year we do have again a tremendous hitting lineup potentially returning so I would have liked someone safer than Sale. Cole seemed like a better safe bet than Sale. Hey who knows COle's arm could breakdown too - I get it. It's just that sale had red flags prior ot coming on here and at the end of last year they were magnified. This would be more germane if he was on the IL or if he was throwing 89. He’s not. His fastball is down (1.9 mph), but he still gets it up rapidly when he needs it. He is striking out 13 per 9, so velocity seems irrelevant. We can argue his future but won’t know until, er, the future. It is tough to call his decline precipitous, though. His Ks are high. His BABIP is 35 points over last year, which might mean bad luck (or better wood, yes). One striking thing is his HR/9 is 3x what it was last year. That strikes me as substantial. And his walks are up. As we saw the other day, that may or may not be all his fault. I am optimistic. I’ll go further: I bet Sale is more productive over the life of his contract than Cole will be on his next contract. It doesn't, though. His peak velos are down too. His fastest fastball this year was 98.4 per Fangraphs, last year he touched 100.9. If you look at their rolling velo graph, it's pretty clear that he hasn't had his best fastball since getting shut down late last season. And yeah, reduced velocity for Sale is still a lot of velo for any other pitcher, but it doesn't always work that way. Matt Harvey still has above average velocity, but a guy who was an ace when he touched 100 is trash now that he "only" touches mid-90s. Or the dead-arm version of Aroldis Chapman that shows up from time to time, who still throws like 97 from the left side but he's not near the same pitcher. Loss of velocity is always a concern, even when the pitcher seems to have velo to spare.
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Post by manfred on Aug 5, 2019 16:12:05 GMT -5
This is hindsight. If Sale replicated last season, he’d cost a fortune. How many people said “ooo... bad call... guy will be way off in ‘19?” I’d guess no one. So you gamble you lock him in before his value gets crazy. Cole would be good... like Price? Who knows? Without Sale, no way Price gets that ring. For all the redemption narrative, he was more a piece than a leader. All I’m saying is it is fine to worry the contract won’t work out. To suggest that it was a bad idea requires a bit of fudging the historical record. There were grumblings at the time he signed. I felt the AAV for what he got wasn't much of a discount. Considering how the market hasn't been friendly to starting pitching recently, I highly doubt he gets much more than 30. He'd have to be incredibly electric and then only maybe does he get a higher number. He faded after getting 300k and then was breaking down late last year. Sale was an incredible trade, but the extension is questionable. If it wasn’t much of a discount, then you are assuming he’d get this, no? Maybe more. Look, in 2018 Yu Darvish, who I think is a bum, got $23/year from the Cubs. Jake Arrieta, who really was on an obvious slide, got $25/year. Last year was not a great FA class for starters, but Corbin got $23.3/year (including $35 million when he is 36). He had 2/3 Sale’s WAR last year, and that was a career year. Sale was going to get paid.
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Post by manfred on Aug 5, 2019 16:15:01 GMT -5
This would be more germane if he was on the IL or if he was throwing 89. He’s not. His fastball is down (1.9 mph), but he still gets it up rapidly when he needs it. He is striking out 13 per 9, so velocity seems irrelevant. We can argue his future but won’t know until, er, the future. It is tough to call his decline precipitous, though. His Ks are high. His BABIP is 35 points over last year, which might mean bad luck (or better wood, yes). One striking thing is his HR/9 is 3x what it was last year. That strikes me as substantial. And his walks are up. As we saw the other day, that may or may not be all his fault. I am optimistic. I’ll go further: I bet Sale is more productive over the life of his contract than Cole will be on his next contract. It doesn't, though. His peak velos are down too. His fastest fastball this year was 98.4 per Fangraphs, last year he touched 100.9. If you look at their rolling velo graph, it's pretty clear that he hasn't had his best fastball since getting shut down late last season. And yeah, reduced velocity for Sale is still a lot of velo for any other pitcher, but it doesn't always work that way. Matt Harvey still has above average velocity, but a guy who was an ace when he touched 100 is trash now that he "only" touches mid-90s. Or the dead-arm version of Aroldis Chapman that shows up from time to time, who still throws like 97 from the left side but he's not near the same pitcher. Loss of velocity is always a concern, even when the pitcher seems to have velo to spare. Those are such bad comps. Harvey was a flash in the pan. Chapman is a closer. Sale usually has good command, a great slider, a good change, and deception. I think he is more likely to have a second half of his career as a crafty lefty than a complete collapse like Roy Halliday, for example. But I think that is a few years off.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 5, 2019 16:23:45 GMT -5
There were grumblings at the time he signed. I felt the AAV for what he got wasn't much of a discount. Considering how the market hasn't been friendly to starting pitching recently, I highly doubt he gets much more than 30. He'd have to be incredibly electric and then only maybe does he get a higher number. He faded after getting 300k and then was breaking down late last year. Sale was an incredible trade, but the extension is questionable. If it wasn’t much of a discount, then you are assuming he’d get this, no? Maybe more. Look, in 2018 Yu Darvish, who I think is a bum, got $23/year from the Cubs. Jake Arrieta, who really was on an obvious slide, got $25/year. Last year was not a great FA class for starters, but Corbin got $23.3/year (including $35 million when he is 36). He had 2/3 Sale’s WAR last year, and that was a career year. Sale was going to get paid. Sale broke down 2 years in a row and was turning 31. Keuchel signed a 1 year deal in June. Price didn't opt out after age 32 season in which he was very good and should have been the WS MVP. Price has specifically said he would not want to be a free agent in today's market. I really don't see how Sale makes more than what Price made in free agency. Maybe they give him an extra year or 2 if he's vintage Sale and maybe they go 1 or 2 million over 30. That's not really much savings. You're paying for predictive future success and unless he's 28 or under I don't see the benefit of getting ahead of an extension. He's already showing diminishing velocity. There's a lot of risk in pitchers over 30 and I'd worry about crossing that bridge when you get there. He's also a wiry guy. Also, when the Sox signed Price they blew out the Cardinals offer to get him.
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Post by manfred on Aug 5, 2019 16:40:26 GMT -5
If it wasn’t much of a discount, then you are assuming he’d get this, no? Maybe more. Look, in 2018 Yu Darvish, who I think is a bum, got $23/year from the Cubs. Jake Arrieta, who really was on an obvious slide, got $25/year. Last year was not a great FA class for starters, but Corbin got $23.3/year (including $35 million when he is 36). He had 2/3 Sale’s WAR last year, and that was a career year. Sale was going to get paid. Sale broke down 2 years in a row and was turning 31. Keuchel signed a 1 year deal in June. Price didn't opt out after age 32 season in which he was very good and should have been the WS MVP. Price has specifically said he would not want to be a free agent in today's market. I really don't see how Sale makes more than what Price made in free agency. Maybe they give him an extra year or 2 if he's vintage Sale and maybe they go 1 or 2 million over 30. That's not really much savings. You're paying for predictive future success and unless he's 28 or under I don't see the benefit of getting ahead of an extension. He's already showing diminishing velocity. There's a lot of risk in pitchers over 30 and I'd worry about crossing that bridge when you get there. He's also a wiry guy. Also, when the Sox signed Price they blew out the Cardinals offer to get him. I won’t argue the Price signing. I have never liked him (I mean as a pitcher). But he would obviously never get what he got because it’s been years since he was a #1 (if he really was). He has a pitch set that is far more reliant on velocity, too. Nothing to compare to Sale’s slider.
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Post by manfred on Aug 5, 2019 18:25:50 GMT -5
Sale broke down 2 years in a row and was turning 31. FWIW, Sale has "broken down" almost every single year of his career. His career Sep/Oct ERA is 3.78. Some of the discussion about Sale implies that this is a new thing, it is not. And this spring was a misguided attempt to prevent that. I suspect that some of his lost velocity may also be pacing. Last year I remember him hitting 100 and thinking it might be a disservice in the long run.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 5, 2019 19:32:37 GMT -5
It doesn't, though. His peak velos are down too. His fastest fastball this year was 98.4 per Fangraphs, last year he touched 100.9. If you look at their rolling velo graph, it's pretty clear that he hasn't had his best fastball since getting shut down late last season. And yeah, reduced velocity for Sale is still a lot of velo for any other pitcher, but it doesn't always work that way. Matt Harvey still has above average velocity, but a guy who was an ace when he touched 100 is trash now that he "only" touches mid-90s. Or the dead-arm version of Aroldis Chapman that shows up from time to time, who still throws like 97 from the left side but he's not near the same pitcher. Loss of velocity is always a concern, even when the pitcher seems to have velo to spare. Those are such bad comps. Harvey was a flash in the pan. Chapman is a closer. They're not comps, I'm making a point about pitchers who lost fastball velo. It's not just about velocity relative to everyone else, velocity relative to their own baseline matters as well. Guys aren't as good when they're not throwing their best fastball. You could look it up.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 5, 2019 19:44:12 GMT -5
This would be more germane if he was on the IL or if he was throwing 89. He’s not. His fastball is down (1.9 mph), but he still gets it up rapidly when he needs it. He is striking out 13 per 9, so velocity seems irrelevant. We can argue his future but won’t know until, er, the future. It is tough to call his decline precipitous, though. His Ks are high. His BABIP is 35 points over last year, which might mean bad luck (or better wood, yes). One striking thing is his HR/9 is 3x what it was last year. That strikes me as substantial. And his walks are up. As we saw the other day, that may or may not be all his fault. I am optimistic. I’ll go further: I bet Sale is more productive over the life of his contract than Cole will be on his next contract. I don't know how long someone is going to pay Cole nor what is his back-end will be. For 2020-2022 i think Cole will be better. But it's no contest I want what you say!!!!!!!!
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 5, 2019 20:52:42 GMT -5
And this spring was a misguided attempt to prevent that. I suspect that some of his lost velocity may also be pacing. Last year I remember him hitting 100 and thinking it might be a disservice in the long run. I agree. I think you throw in Jimed's idea that the ball is messing with his command and slider and it just turned into a year that got away from him a little. I hope there are some lessons learned and they're able to balance things out next year. My problem with that is if it's the ball, they're likely not changing it to decrease offense. That makes me feel worse about a bounce back.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Aug 6, 2019 11:21:56 GMT -5
Who said sign Cole now? It's basically impossible, isn't it? Unless you lose other big salary(ies)? Basically can't be done so the Cole discussion is over before it ever started. Doesn’t matter. My point is Price was a shiny toy. Sale next. Now people somehow imagine letting Sale walk (before knowing he’d have a down year) and getting Cole instead. I’m still good with the Sale contract, but maybe in principle signing pitchers to contracts that pay big deep into their 30sis exceedingly high risk? But what is the alternative? This FO does not value developing starting pitchers, which makes sense because it's the hardest position to consistently develop. So then what, sign worse pitchers just because they may be younger and cheaper? You don't win that way. Getting these guys as their value fades sucks but it's the only way to compete at a high level. This year's Red Sox team is a perfect example of that, the offense is really good but the team isn't because the pitching is bad. You NEED that top end pitching talent. So yeah, Price and Sale are negative values on their contracts right now. But given that they were two headliners of a rotation that won the World Series last year, doesn't that add enough value to make it worth it? Would you rather have three seasons of 85-90 wins and not make it out of the first round of the playoffs or win 108 games and a World Series, and then play with house money from there?
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Post by manfred on Aug 6, 2019 11:53:45 GMT -5
Doesn’t matter. My point is Price was a shiny toy. Sale next. Now people somehow imagine letting Sale walk (before knowing he’d have a down year) and getting Cole instead. I’m still good with the Sale contract, but maybe in principle signing pitchers to contracts that pay big deep into their 30sis exceedingly high risk? But what is the alternative? This FO does not value developing starting pitchers, which makes sense because it's the hardest position to consistently develop. So then what, sign worse pitchers just because they may be younger and cheaper? You don't win that way. Getting these guys as their value fades sucks but it's the only way to compete at a high level. This year's Red Sox team is a perfect example of that, the offense is really good but the team isn't because the pitching is bad. You NEED that top end pitching talent. So yeah, Price and Sale are negative values on their contracts right now. But given that they were two headliners of a rotation that won the World Series last year, doesn't that add enough value to make it worth it? Would you rather have three seasons of 85-90 wins and not make it out of the first round of the playoffs or win 108 games and a World Series, and then play with house money from there? No, I’m not actually saying don’t take the risk. I am saying don’t grouse if it doesn’t pay off. I was no fan of the Price deal, but I get it. I figure the WS (even if he was not the difference) makes it worth it. I am a fan of the Sale deal. What I am REALLY not a fan of is deploring the Sale deal post facto because we could have gambled on someone else. Yeah, if I bet on something and lose (though I deny losing on Sale at this point), it’d be great to gave bet anything else. But that’s childish.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 6, 2019 12:32:11 GMT -5
But what is the alternative? This FO does not value developing starting pitchers, which makes sense because it's the hardest position to consistently develop. So then what, sign worse pitchers just because they may be younger and cheaper? You don't win that way. Getting these guys as their value fades sucks but it's the only way to compete at a high level. This year's Red Sox team is a perfect example of that, the offense is really good but the team isn't because the pitching is bad. You NEED that top end pitching talent. So yeah, Price and Sale are negative values on their contracts right now. But given that they were two headliners of a rotation that won the World Series last year, doesn't that add enough value to make it worth it? Would you rather have three seasons of 85-90 wins and not make it out of the first round of the playoffs or win 108 games and a World Series, and then play with house money from there? No, I’m not actually saying don’t take the risk. I am saying don’t grouse if it doesn’t pay off. I was no fan of the Price deal, but I get it. I figure the WS ( even if he was not the difference) makes it worth it. I am a fan of the Sale deal. What I am REALLY not a fan of is deploring the Sale deal post facto because we could have gambled on someone else. Yeah, if I bet on something and lose (though I deny losing on Sale at this point), it’d be great to gave bet anything else. But that’s childish. He wasn't? There's no stopping the hating David Price industrial complex, but all things considered, that contract is going pretty well.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 6, 2019 12:43:13 GMT -5
No, I’m not actually saying don’t take the risk. I am saying don’t grouse if it doesn’t pay off. I was no fan of the Price deal, but I get it. I figure the WS ( even if he was not the difference) makes it worth it. I am a fan of the Sale deal. What I am REALLY not a fan of is deploring the Sale deal post facto because we could have gambled on someone else. Yeah, if I bet on something and lose (though I deny losing on Sale at this point), it’d be great to gave bet anything else. But that’s childish. He wasn't? There's no stopping the hating David Price industrial complex, but all things considered, that contract is going pretty well. I think you're totally misunderstanding what he meant. I think he was trying to say even if Price hadn't been the difference in the World Series he would have been worth his deal given that he was a big part of the World Series team. I don't think he was disputing the fact that he was a huge difference maker in the World Series at all. That would only make the deal even more worth it.
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Post by manfred on Aug 6, 2019 13:12:53 GMT -5
He wasn't? There's no stopping the hating David Price industrial complex, but all things considered, that contract is going pretty well. I think you're totally misunderstanding what he meant. I think he was trying to say even if Price hadn't been the difference in the World Series he would have been worth his deal given that he was a big part of the World Series team. I don't think he was disputing the fact that he was a huge difference maker in the World Series at all. That would only make the deal even more worth it. Wasn’t meant as an insult to Price. They signed him to win a WS. They did. So whatever qualms I had about his contract are out the window. I have les beef about him than most. His Eck stuff is great, but I suspect it is more typical than we think... just got public. Overall, he seems like a good guy and teamate.
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