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Sale to IL
Aug 19, 2019 17:31:41 GMT -5
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Post by ortiz34 on Aug 19, 2019 17:31:41 GMT -5
Chris Sale is getting a PRP injection, not a great sign. Doesn't mean he needs the surgery, but it doesn't mean he doesn't not need it either. We'll need to see in 6 weeks when he's reevaluated. Dude at this point you are wishing something will happen to prove your point. Knock it off.
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Sale to IL
Aug 19, 2019 17:33:43 GMT -5
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Post by ortiz34 on Aug 19, 2019 17:33:43 GMT -5
Sale could still get surgery, but the news is good so far.
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Post by manfred on Aug 19, 2019 17:37:03 GMT -5
Chris Sale is getting a PRP injection, not a great sign. Doesn't mean he needs the surgery, but it doesn't mean he doesn't not need it either. We'll need to see in 6 weeks when he's reevaluated. Ohh man, yeah PRP injections either work or they don't. Most often times they don't. Garrett Richards had the PRP and got Tommy John surgery anyways. But Andrews did not see anything but inflammation. In theory, the inflammation goes down, Sale is fine. If there was a tear, which appears not to be the case but was the case with Richards, there would be a gamble in waiting. No injury is good, but I’ve heard nothing but positives today regarding Sale for 2020.
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Post by patford on Aug 19, 2019 17:37:35 GMT -5
Sale has had elbow problems and PRP injections in the past. I don't think a PRP injection means a surgery is going to be needed. Just a guess but I assume the injections are fairly common but associated with TJ surgery because while not everyone who gets a PRP injection needs surgery probably most people who need surgery have had a PRP injection. Does anyone know if that is the case ? bleacherreport.com/articles/2037473-chris-sale-hits-dl-with-arm-problems-sox-look-for-answers-on-aces-injuryApril, 2014: "As well, sources indicate that Sale will get an injection of platelet rich plasma (PRP), which is a common treatment for many athletic injuries to soft tissue."
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Sale to IL
Aug 19, 2019 17:48:34 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 19, 2019 17:48:34 GMT -5
Chris Sale is getting a PRP injection, not a great sign. Doesn't mean he needs the surgery, but it doesn't mean he doesn't not need it either. We'll need to see in 6 weeks when he's reevaluated. Dude at this point you are wishing something will happen to prove your point. Knock it off. No I'm not. I said this was shockingly pleasant news. I'm tempering being excited and acting like he's out of the woods because he's not. A PRP being used to treat his inflammation is a step to try and avoid surgery. They're giving him the injection, shutting him down and then we'll see. It's not likely, but it doesn't mean he's clear either and we won't know for 6 weeks. I do not want surgery unless Andrews says something that he hasn't spoken yet.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 19, 2019 17:50:27 GMT -5
This is where message board doctors who have never seen Sale's elbow or an MRI know more than James Andrews, the guy who invented the surgery.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 19, 2019 17:53:46 GMT -5
This is where message board doctors who have never seen Sale's elbow or an MRI know more than James Andrews, the guy who invented the surgery. He's clearly the best in the world with it, so it's his opinion that matters most.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 19, 2019 18:14:45 GMT -5
All of that revenue and NESN still couldn't "afford" to put out a commemorative DVD for the epic 2018 season. Still burns my butt. Best season in franchise history, one none of us will probably ever see again in our lifetime, and they wouldn't put it out. They might have the money but if the Red Sox or NESN don't want to spend it, they won't. I know this isn't going to make you any happier, but NESN and every other business in existence is not going to invest money that they can't make back. If they didn't think they'd sell enough DVDs to break even, then that is why. Doesn't matter how much they make on everything else.Yup, that's what I've seen at my job. Even if you're screwing the public you serve, you screw them for that extra overall profit. And that applies to NESN. I'm not too worried that NESN doesn't make enough profit. My issue is that even if they make less overall profit (it is still a huge profit no matter how you slice it, right?), why screw your loyal customer base? You can't even honor the team, the reason why your station is making money, with a well done documentary? Something isn't right about that. And it ties to the "how much profit is enough profit?" theme. If a company is going to go belly up making those documentaries, then fine don't make them. I doubt that's the case with NESN. They're a cash cow.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 19, 2019 18:15:23 GMT -5
Next man up.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 19, 2019 18:18:53 GMT -5
Obviously good news re: Sale. It still doesn't tell us how well he'll do in 2020. If he hadn't been injured I'd have loved to have seen how the last two months had gone.
I know his peripherals look pretty good. I just don't know how what he's going through or if what's he's going through is going to affect him going forward.
He doesn't need TJS. Good. How sound is that elbow? I imagine they got a really good look at everything and can see where he is with his elbow going forward?
The bad news for me is that there should still be a lot of uncertainty regarding Sale and being able to depend upon his "rebound" in 2020. The good news is that at least now there's a chance for his rebound in 2020, which wouldn't be the case if he needed TJS, so phew, indeed.
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Sale to IL
Aug 19, 2019 18:19:15 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 19, 2019 18:19:15 GMT -5
This is where message board doctors who have never seen Sale's elbow or an MRI know more than James Andrews, the guy who invented the surgery. He's clearly the best in the world with it, so it's his opinion that matters most. Even the doctors aren't experts at predicting this. They give their best judgements and then proceed. Case and point- Raniel Raudes.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 19, 2019 18:28:57 GMT -5
Obviously good news re: Sale. It still doesn't tell us how well he'll do in 2020. If he hadn't been injured I'd have loved to have seen how the last two months had gone. I know his peripherals look pretty good. I just don't know how what he's going through or if what's he's going through is going to affect him going forward. He doesn't need TJS. Good. How sound is that elbow? I imagine they got a really good look at everything and can see where he is with his elbow going forward? The bad news for me is that there should still be a lot of uncertainty regarding Sale and being able to depend upon his "rebound" in 2020. The good news is that at least now there's a chance for his rebound in 2020, which wouldn't be the case if he needed TJS, so phew, indeed. I think his rebound is much more likely in 2020 if his elbow shapes up given that he'll have an extra long offseason. He really could use it, along with everyone else.
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Sale to IL
Aug 19, 2019 18:34:00 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by jackiebradleyjrjr on Aug 19, 2019 18:34:00 GMT -5
Exactly my concern. Still I’m relieved! I really don't think Andrews would tell Sale he didn't need surgery if he needed surgery. Still this whole situation is the trouble with Sale. He simply wears down every year and things seem to be getting worse. Personally I think he ought to consider trying to put on 20 pounds. Even at 200 he would still be on the thin side for someone who is 6'6". I'd bet his old scouting reports read something like this, " Considerable remaining projection. On the skinny side at present." Now it may be that a pitcher "filling out" is not a significant factor and does not mean much of anything but if so why is it stressed in scouting reports ? Sale might want to consider something different. Even with the cautious approach in an attempt to keep him fresh he broke down. That tendency (and I feel this affects him in single innings and games as well) limits his up side which is admittedly one of the best in baseball. I’m not saying he would. My concern is that while Sale doesn’t need TJ at this time, his elbow might be vulnerable enough that rest and treatment are not sufficient to heal the inflammation completely. Spring training comes along, Sale still has elbow trouble (or it comes back during the season) and they go “oh well, that didn’t work— in hindsight maybe he should have gotten TJ earlier. Then we lose him for 20 and parts of 21. I’m obviously not an expert but just because Andrews said he doesn’t need TJ doesn’t mean he didn’t see something that concerned him. Don’t get me wrong— I’m happy he doesn’t need TJ and don’t think he should get it if the doctors don’t recommend it. But I’m still a nervous nelly over this.
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atzar
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Post by atzar on Aug 19, 2019 18:38:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't quite call this a sigh of relief, but it's definitely better news than an immediate need for surgery. Hope we get more good news in six weeks.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 19, 2019 18:41:57 GMT -5
I really don't think Andrews would tell Sale he didn't need surgery if he needed surgery. Still this whole situation is the trouble with Sale. He simply wears down every year and things seem to be getting worse. Personally I think he ought to consider trying to put on 20 pounds. Even at 200 he would still be on the thin side for someone who is 6'6". I'd bet his old scouting reports read something like this, " Considerable remaining projection. On the skinny side at present." Now it may be that a pitcher "filling out" is not a significant factor and does not mean much of anything but if so why is it stressed in scouting reports ? Sale might want to consider something different. Even with the cautious approach in an attempt to keep him fresh he broke down. That tendency (and I feel this affects him in single innings and games as well) limits his up side which is admittedly one of the best in baseball. I’m not saying he would. My concern is that while Sale doesn’t need TJ at this time, his elbow might be vulnerable enough that rest and treatment are not sufficient to heal the inflammation completely. Spring training comes along, Sale still has elbow trouble (or it comes back during the season) and they go “oh well, that didn’t work— in hindsight maybe he should have gotten TJ earlier. Then we lose him for 20 and parts of 21. I’m obviously not an expert but just because Andrews said he doesn’t need TJ doesn’t mean he didn’t see something that concerned him. Don’t get me wrong— I’m happy he doesn’t need TJ and don’t think he should get it if the doctors don’t recommend it. But I’m still a nervous nelly over this. Given that the alternative - he has unnecessary surgery and is then never the same pitcher again, it's always the right thing to do even if it doesn't work out.
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Sale to IL
Aug 19, 2019 18:48:14 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 19, 2019 18:48:14 GMT -5
Ohh man, yeah PRP injections either work or they don't. Most often times they don't. Garrett Richards had the PRP and got Tommy John surgery anyways. But Andrews did not see anything but inflammation. In theory, the inflammation goes down, Sale is fine. If there was a tear, which appears not to be the case but was the case with Richards, there would be a gamble in waiting. No injury is good, but I’ve heard nothing but positives today regarding Sale for 2020. We don't know if there's a tear or not. What we do know is that there's enough damage to cause a PRP injection. These things either tend to be a precursor to surgery or they don't. It's most likely viewed as the last possible option before surgery, to be honest. Nothing about this is positive. I wasn't expecting it to be since we heard about the injury. 2020 for Sale is nothing but a bonus to this point. That's how I look at it. The Sox should be operating as a team that's looking past 2020. Gambling on Chris Sale coming back for 2020 and going for a title next year would be foolish and could cost this team a lot down the road.
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Sale to IL
Aug 19, 2019 18:51:43 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by jackiebradleyjrjr on Aug 19, 2019 18:51:43 GMT -5
I’m not saying he would. My concern is that while Sale doesn’t need TJ at this time, his elbow might be vulnerable enough that rest and treatment are not sufficient to heal the inflammation completely. Spring training comes along, Sale still has elbow trouble (or it comes back during the season) and they go “oh well, that didn’t work— in hindsight maybe he should have gotten TJ earlier. Then we lose him for 20 and parts of 21. I’m obviously not an expert but just because Andrews said he doesn’t need TJ doesn’t mean he didn’t see something that concerned him. Don’t get me wrong— I’m happy he doesn’t need TJ and don’t think he should get it if the doctors don’t recommend it. But I’m still a nervous nelly over this. Given that the alternative - he has unnecessary surgery and is then never the same pitcher again, it's always the right thing to do even if it doesn't work out. I don’t disagree. I just said I’m worried. 🤷🏻♂️
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 19, 2019 21:06:39 GMT -5
The Sale news precipitated quite the column on ESPN The Red Sox are (basically) toast: What losing Chris Sale means for 2019 and beyond www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27402740/the-red-sox-basically-toast-losing-chris-sale-means-2019-beyondlast two paragraphs What's next Dombrowski was brought in to spend money and trade prospects to acquire Sale, Kimbrel, Price and Eovaldi and push for a World Series. Dombrowski was tasked with a similar mission in the later years of his tenure in Detroit, making the playoffs every year from 2011 through 2014, where he fell short of a World Series title before being released from his contract in August 2015. The Tigers' current ground-up rebuild and the $124 million due over the next four years to 36-year-old Miguel Cabrera, who has nine homers and has hit .278 in 400 at-bats this season, remain as the rubble from Dombrowski's tenure. Betts becomes a free agent after the 2020 season, as does Jackie Bradley Jr., which complicates any plans to add payroll this winter. Boston has $237 million committed to just Sale, Price and Eovaldi for the next three years, with Porcello hitting free agency this offseason and a farm system without much premium pitching talent. The 66-year-old Dombrowski has one year left on his contract, but ownership might have to decide even sooner if the man who built maybe the greatest team in franchise history is the right person to lead the Red Sox into their increasingly murky future.
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Sale to IL
Aug 19, 2019 21:27:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by manfred on Aug 19, 2019 21:27:44 GMT -5
But Andrews did not see anything but inflammation. In theory, the inflammation goes down, Sale is fine. If there was a tear, which appears not to be the case but was the case with Richards, there would be a gamble in waiting. No injury is good, but I’ve heard nothing but positives today regarding Sale for 2020. We don't know if there's a tear or not. What we do know is that there's enough damage to cause a PRP injection. These things either tend to be a precursor to surgery or they don't. It's most likely viewed as the last possible option before surgery, to be honest. Nothing about this is positive. I wasn't expecting it to be since we heard about the injury. 2020 for Sale is nothing but a bonus to this point. That's how I look at it. The Sox should be operating as a team that's looking past 2020. Gambling on Chris Sale coming back for 2020 and going for a title next year would be foolish and could cost this team a lot down the road. That is the glass is completely empty way of looking at it. If multiple doctors, including Andrews, see only inflammation, then I am cautiously optimistic that this is not worst case scenario.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 19, 2019 21:55:05 GMT -5
So our season really is pretty much done - starters....Porcello wildly inconsistent and mostly bad this year, Price injured (and was pitching poorly for some time - around the reigniting of the Eck crap), Sale likely out for the rest of the season, Eovald....who knows?
So we have ERod. And - what? Velazquez? Johnson? Cashner? Darwinzon? No help coming from Pawtucket.
Sale is getting no younger and has broken down late each year on the Sox - so not sure what we will have from him going forward no matter what happens with this latest injury.
I am so, so glad we had last year. It was simply magical. And not likely to become even close to being replicated any time soon. The coming offseason is going to be truly fascinating.
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Sale to IL
Aug 19, 2019 23:03:19 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 19, 2019 23:03:19 GMT -5
We don't know if there's a tear or not. What we do know is that there's enough damage to cause a PRP injection. These things either tend to be a precursor to surgery or they don't. It's most likely viewed as the last possible option before surgery, to be honest. Nothing about this is positive. I wasn't expecting it to be since we heard about the injury. 2020 for Sale is nothing but a bonus to this point. That's how I look at it. The Sox should be operating as a team that's looking past 2020. Gambling on Chris Sale coming back for 2020 and going for a title next year would be foolish and could cost this team a lot down the road. That is the glass is completely empty way of looking at it. If multiple doctors, including Andrews, see only inflammation, then I am cautiously optimistic that this is not worst case scenario. There wouldn't be a PRP injection if it was just inflammation.
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Post by swingingbunt on Aug 19, 2019 23:16:27 GMT -5
That is the glass is completely empty way of looking at it. If multiple doctors, including Andrews, see only inflammation, then I am cautiously optimistic that this is not worst case scenario. There wouldn't be a PRP injection if it was just inflammation. Could you provide a source for that? I'm not a doctor and would rather not pretend to be one, but a quick Google search says the treatment "is known to protect tissues from inflammatory damages." Do you know for a fact that this treatment would, in no way, be used in that way?
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Post by caseytins on Aug 19, 2019 23:21:43 GMT -5
That is the glass is completely empty way of looking at it. If multiple doctors, including Andrews, see only inflammation, then I am cautiously optimistic that this is not worst case scenario. There wouldn't be a PRP injection if it was just inflammation. That is just false.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Aug 20, 2019 0:38:07 GMT -5
There wouldn't be a PRP injection if it was just inflammation. Could you provide a source for that? I'm not a doctor and would rather not pretend to be one, but a quick Google search says the treatment "is known to protect tissues from inflammatory damages." Do you know for a fact that this treatment would, in no way, be used in that way? www.hss.edu/condition-list_prp-injections.asp"What is platelet-rich plasma (PRP) and what are PRP injections? Platelet-rich plasma (PRP) therapy uses injections of a concentration of a patient’s own platelets to accelerate the healing of injured tendons, ligaments, muscles and joints. In this way, PRP injections use each individual patient's own healing system to improve musculoskeletal problems. PRP injections are prepared by taking anywhere from one to a few tubes of your own blood and running it through a centrifuge to concentrate the platelets. These activated platelets are then injected directly into your injured or diseased body tissue. This releases growth factors that stimulate and increase the number of reparative cells your body produces. Ultrasound imaging is sometimes used to guide the injection. The photographs below illustrate a PRP injection into a patient's torn tendon. The ultrasound guidance is shown at left and the injection is shown at right." It's pretty common knowledge that if it was a mild strain, this thing would just be shut down and he would be prescribed inflammatory medicine, along with rest and rehab. Chances are that this is a grade 2 ucl strain needing further treatment than just rest, rehab, and inflammatory medicine.
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Aug 20, 2019 3:44:30 GMT -5
Could you provide a source for that? I'm not a doctor and would rather not pretend to be one, but a quick Google search says the treatment "is known to protect tissues from inflammatory damages." Do you know for a fact that this treatment would, in no way, be used in that way? www.hss.edu/condition-list_prp-injections.asp"What is platelet-rich plasma (PRP) and what are PRP injections? Platelet-rich plasma (PRP) therapy uses injections of a concentration of a patient’s own platelets to accelerate the healing of injured tendons, ligaments, muscles and joints. In this way, PRP injections use each individual patient's own healing system to improve musculoskeletal problems. PRP injections are prepared by taking anywhere from one to a few tubes of your own blood and running it through a centrifuge to concentrate the platelets. These activated platelets are then injected directly into your injured or diseased body tissue. This releases growth factors that stimulate and increase the number of reparative cells your body produces. Ultrasound imaging is sometimes used to guide the injection. The photographs below illustrate a PRP injection into a patient's torn tendon. The ultrasound guidance is shown at left and the injection is shown at right." It's pretty common knowledge that if it was a mild strain, this thing would just be shut down and he would be prescribed inflammatory medicine, along with rest and rehab. Chances are that this is a grade 2 ucl strain needing further treatment than just rest, rehab, and inflammatory medicine. Thanks for digging out that information. It made this procedure much clearer in my mind. It reinforces that Sale doesn’t have a tear but, as Dr andrews and the team stated, a nasty inflammation that is being treated with the injections and rest. Inflamations can be secondary to a tear, but that is the exception not the rule. Most recent example is David Price. Until Dr. Andrews says surgery is required I feel positive, even confident, that Sale will be Sale in 2020. That doesn’t mean neither Sale nor Price won’t need TJ at some point, but it does mean they don’t need it now.
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