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Dombrowski
Aug 25, 2019 14:22:19 GMT -5
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Post by pudsauce on Aug 25, 2019 14:22:19 GMT -5
Thank you for clarifying that for me. I was very concerned about whether or not this internet person, who doesnt’t have the basic ability to simply “unlike” a post, was moved by my words. Beyond that however, could you please tell me what part of my expectation requires a “superhuman” being? Thank you for misrepresenting my post. I don't think I'll waste my time with you. How's that? [b How’s what? Lol i think you have no answer for my question of what part of my expectation requires a superhuman being.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 25, 2019 14:33:51 GMT -5
Why start out picking a fight? OK, whatever. Why have Dombrowski's drafts been bad? How the hell can one person possibly make all those draft pick calls in the middle of the season? I mean technically, he would have the last call, but why wouldn't he let others make decisions when they have spent thousands of hours scouting all these players, as well as knowing and guessing signing bonus demands?
There are way too many things for the person running an MLB team to do that he'd have enough time to figure out 20+ rounds of a draft. It's way easier in other sports because you don't have 40 rounds and you don't have thousands of players to choose from at completely different stages of development who are all 2-5 years away from the majors in a best case scenario. Baseball drafts about 5-20 times as many players as other sports.
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Dombrowski
Aug 25, 2019 16:14:51 GMT -5
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Post by pudsauce on Aug 25, 2019 16:14:51 GMT -5
Why start out picking a fight? OK, whatever. Why have Dombrowski's drafts been bad? How the hell can one person possibly make all those draft pick calls in the middle of the season? I mean technically, he would have the last call, but why wouldn't he let others make decisions when they have spent thousands of hours scouting all these players, as well as knowing and guessing signing bonus demands? There are way too many things for the person running an MLB team to do that he'd have enough time to figure out 20+ rounds of a draft. It's way easier in other sports because you don't have 40 rounds and you don't have thousands of players to choose from at completely different stages of development who are all 2-5 years away from the majors in a best case scenario. Baseball drafts about 5-20 times as many players as other sports.
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Dombrowski
Aug 25, 2019 16:27:37 GMT -5
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Post by pudsauce on Aug 25, 2019 16:27:37 GMT -5
Why start out picking a fight? OK, whatever. Why have Dombrowski's drafts been bad? How the hell can one person possibly make all those draft pick calls in the middle of the season? I mean technically, he would have the last call, but why wouldn't he let others make decisions when they have spent thousands of hours scouting all these players, as well as knowing and guessing signing bonus demands? There are way too many things for the person running an MLB team to do that he'd have enough time to figure out 20+ rounds of a draft. It's way easier in other sports because you don't have 40 rounds and you don't have thousands of players to choose from at completely different stages of development who are all 2-5 years away from the majors in a best case scenario. Baseball drafts about 5-20 times as many players as other sports. I didnt start out picking a fight. I started out saying i thought that it is absolutely Dombrowski’s call on who gets drafted early. Internet guy then came out with my thought was insane and to let me know he DID NOT like my post lol.I specifically said that i didn’t believe Dombrowski would be the go to guy in the later rounds and I would also assume he wouldnt want to be. The thousands of hours the scouts put in are so they can paint a concise picture of the different players to management and narrow it down just so Dombrowski can pick from a much smaller field. Even Belichick isnt looking through every single college football player. That is insane, however, it is not what I am saying. Much like DD, he looks at what are the consensus top players closely and lets his scouts tip him off to players that may be Patriot types later in the draft. Actually, Belichick may be superhuman so its possible he does scout every single player lol.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 25, 2019 16:30:16 GMT -5
What would you have done? Like how do you take Eovaldi's money and deepen the team getting your second basemen, starter, and more depth? Step one: sign Charlie Morton instead. Step two: whatever.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 25, 2019 17:31:06 GMT -5
Why start out picking a fight? OK, whatever. Why have Dombrowski's drafts been bad? How the hell can one person possibly make all those draft pick calls in the middle of the season? I mean technically, he would have the last call, but why wouldn't he let others make decisions when they have spent thousands of hours scouting all these players, as well as knowing and guessing signing bonus demands? There are way too many things for the person running an MLB team to do that he'd have enough time to figure out 20+ rounds of a draft. It's way easier in other sports because you don't have 40 rounds and you don't have thousands of players to choose from at completely different stages of development who are all 2-5 years away from the majors in a best case scenario. Baseball drafts about 5-20 times as many players as other sports. I didnt start out picking a fight. I started out saying i thought that it is absolutely Dombrowski’s call on who gets drafted early. Internet guy then came out with my thought was insane and to let me know he DID NOT like my post lol.I specifically said that i didn’t believe Dombrowski would be the go to guy in the later rounds and I would also assume he wouldnt want to be. The thousands of hours the scouts put in are so they can paint a concise picture of the different players to management and narrow it down just so Dombrowski can pick from a much smaller field. Even Belichick isnt looking through every single college football player. That is insane, however, it is not what I am saying. Much like DD, he looks at what are the consensus top players closely and lets his scouts tip him off to players that may be Patriot types later in the draft. Actually, Belichick may be superhuman so its possible he does scout every single player lol. I took it as him not knowing that you could un-like a post. But welcome to the board anyway. I think Pats scouts narrow down the draft pool to about 50-60 players so Bellichick will know all of those really well. The rest would never be drafted by them no matter how much talent they had.
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Dombrowski
Aug 25, 2019 18:11:58 GMT -5
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Post by pudsauce on Aug 25, 2019 18:11:58 GMT -5
I didnt start out picking a fight. I started out saying i thought that it is absolutely Dombrowski’s call on who gets drafted early. Internet guy then came out with my thought was insane and to let me know he DID NOT like my post lol.I specifically said that i didn’t believe Dombrowski would be the go to guy in the later rounds and I would also assume he wouldnt want to be. The thousands of hours the scouts put in are so they can paint a concise picture of the different players to management and narrow it down just so Dombrowski can pick from a much smaller field. Even Belichick isnt looking through every single college football player. That is insane, however, it is not what I am saying. Much like DD, he looks at what are the consensus top players closely and lets his scouts tip him off to players that may be Patriot types later in the draft. Actually, Belichick may be superhuman so its possible he does scout every single player lol. I took it as him not knowing that you could un-like a post. But welcome to the board anyway. I think Pats scouts narrow down the draft pool to about 50-60 players so Bellichick will know all of those really well. The rest would never be drafted by them no matter how much talent they had. I definitely understand that baseball has a much larger pool thereby necessitating relying on more people but, and we might getting off topic a little here, I would think Belichick is looking at more than 60 players. They look at the draft as though anyone could either fall to them or they could trade up to get. There are scheme specific players that other teams might have a first rd grade on that the pats wouldnt ever pick. Even then, they draft 9 or 10 players players and Belichick always adds multiple undrafted free agents that when they are mentioned he seems to have an in depth knowledge about. If there are only 50-60 players whom the team would consider drafting and they end up drafting 10 of them (nevermind the undrafted fa) then they end up managing to get close to 20% of the players on their draft board. Being there are 32 teams that seems awfully (impossibly?) impressive. Bringing it back to the subject at hand, I believe that any GM has to be responsible for the selections that necessitate you have a high avg of hitting on to be a successful long term franchise. I am not trying to be argumentative just for the sake of it, i saw a post that i had a strong disagreement with and explained my reasoning for it. I dont have any issue with you believing differently.
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Post by larrycook on Aug 26, 2019 8:51:20 GMT -5
What kind of gm do we want for this team? A.) Do we want a gm that can build a perennial playoff team with a superior farm system that produces talent annually and we augment with key free agents? B.) Or do we want the gm that wins one championship using the scorched earth policy and needs another decade for a successor to rebuild the team into a contender. Seems to me ownership lost their patience with the timeline and fired type a and hired type b and now we have to live with the consequences of that decision. I think the guy you are suggesting in A was as incompetent as you can get. The sox came in last place in their division 3 of the past 4 years. And I think the guy you are suggesting in B imo it is laughable that you are implying it will take a decade to recover. SO for example you know for certain Sale is done and Eovaldi will stink the remainder of their contracts? I was not implying any name, but simply looking at two different philosophies for building a sports franchise. However since you mentioned names, based on what Miami has gone through, and where Detroit is headed, a decade does not seem long enough post scorch earth gm.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 26, 2019 8:58:52 GMT -5
Dombrowski left the Marlins after 2001 and they won the World Series in 2003. Also, Dombrowski left the Expos in 1991 and they had a .582 winning percentage over the next three seasons.
And for whatever it's worth, the 2016 Tigers, the first team after they let him go mid-'15, weren't eliminated until the final day of the regular season.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 26, 2019 9:25:54 GMT -5
Dombrowski left the Marlins after 2001 and they won the World Series in 2003. Also, Dombrowski left the Expos in 1991 and they had a .582 winning percentage over the next three seasons. And for whatever it's worth, the 2016 Tigers, the first team after they let him go mid-'15, weren't eliminated until the final day of the regular season. I personally think it's disgusting quite frankly the way the fan base is treating Dombrowski. Even if you want to say he had a bad year, put him on notice the following season. 3 division titles and a ring and we want to boot him for not building a bullpen (top 10 in ERA, best since trade deadline), not able to build a farm despite getting him to gut your system for ML ready talent and then when he's done doing that upgrades your system from 30th to 22nd, and signing guys to long term deals that we have no idea how they'll work out. Eovaldi looks awful. Sale seems very risky. These aren't super long-term contracts and since they have very little in SP talent on the farm you had to spend to get guys.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 26, 2019 9:45:56 GMT -5
I think there are a lot of legitimate criticisms of him, and I think the "he always seems to know which prospects to trade" got overblown in '18 when a lot of guys had down years at once. But he did a great job building that 2016 to 2018 team and I think there is a sub-population of people who wanted the Red Sox to **GO FOR IT** but also not bear any long-term consequences of that. The 2019 team is a bit weaker because of the 2016 and 2017 deals, but they also won the 2018 World Series because of them! And it wasn't like a fluky 2013 World Series, either - it was a very well built team that improved over time and gradually tinkered with to get the parts right. He did a great job building them. At the other end, while Dombrowski's gotten some credit for the moves he didn't make this past offseason, he also didn't make any that ended up benefitting the team - he didn't have a good offseason and I think it's okay to say so. (EDIT: If you want to count the Bogaerts extension as happening in the offseason, though, he gets a ton of credit for that. As has been mentioned elsewhere, dude would've gotten paid this offseason.)
I dunno. I think "Dombrowski has gone scorched earth and ruined the team long-term" is a crazy take but "Dombrowski might be the wrong guy to build the next contender based on the current resources" might be fair. I personally think he's earned the chance to fail based on what he did his first three full seasons and the fact that he's going to win about 87-89 games in his bad year.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 26, 2019 9:51:55 GMT -5
I can see Dave Dombrowski taking the fall for this year and I don't always agree with moves he makes or doesn't make, but I don't think he deserves to lose his job over this season.
This year is just the perfect storm of everything going wrong on the field, the polar opposite of last season.
You can disagree with moves like did he sign Sale too soon or should he have brought back Eovaldi and/or Pearce?
But I don't think those moves, even if they didn't work, weren't defensible.
Dombrowski gambled on Sale having a similar season to last year or the year before and if he did, you're looking at Greinke/Price money to sign him. Instead he took the chance that Sale would be effective - and looking at his overall track record since when hasn't he been? He's never had a year this poor before. And he took that gamble so that he could sign Sale for less $/year and for 5 years rather than 6 or 7, which a Chris Sale having a typical Chris Sale year would command on the open market.
Dombrowski looked at the market and saw no late 20s starting pitcher with the stuff that Eovaldi has who was going to go for only 4 years and $17 million/year. He gambled that Tampa had improved Eovaldi as a pitcher and that the adjustments they made to him last year, which seemed to show up in the post-season, were real changes and that the switch was going on as a starter.
You can say, well they should have signed Morton instead. Morton didn't pitch well in the post-season against the Sox and was coming off of an injury himself. In hindsight you can make that move I suppose, but Dombrowski, knowing that Porcello's days were numbered, was looking for a core member of the rotation for the long-term, not a temporary short-term addition.
You can say Pearce shouldn't have been brought back, but his 2018 season, including his regular season with the Red Sox, was outstanding. He fit perfectly. The perfect platoon guy for Moreland, plus oh yeah, he did ok in the post-season too. It also wasn't known that Chavis would be ready for the majors as soon as he was.
All of those were "mistakes" in 2019, but the logic behind the moves wasn't necessarily a mistake.
As far as the farm system goes, the Red Sox have an improving, but thoroughly lacking farm system in comparison to most of the other teams.
I don't blame Dombrowski much. The rules are different these days. The days of Theo grabbing the big talent late and being able to spend the money to do so that others couldn't are gone.
It's harder to have an impact draft the way the Sox did in 2011.
I think Dombrowski does a good job of sorting out the talent and keeping the best and trading the rest even if it is painful. His worst deal was the Shaw plus/Thornburg deal and at this point, it's insignficant.
I hated and still hate the Pomeranz/Espinoza deal but it hasn't come to back to bite the Red Sox, although I don't know if that's simply (bad for Espinzona)luck because of Espinoza, not having a track record of being injured, but with his smallish frame, broke down.
Shaw gave the Brewers two strong seasons, so yes, it was a loss, but here we are in 2019 and Shaw got himself demoted to the minors and none of the other players have really established themselves.
3 good to excellent seasons of Kimbrel cost the Sox a #4 type starter in Allen and a CF in Margot but given what the Sox needed when they need it, it worked out.
Moncada is turning into the guy I thought he'd be and Kopech might still become, but Sale was exactly what the Sox needed when they needed him.
I do think Dombrowski has tried to cut corners on the bullpen, but for reasons that make sense. Yeah, a lot of relief options out there are prone to sucking in small sample sizes, which is the nature of bullpen guys.
And there's always somebody on the roster you're wondering how and why they're there. I remember when the Sox played the Tigers and I saw Don Kelly playing as much as he did, wondering why. The same thought when I'd see Nunez playing quite often toward the end of his tenure here, the way I see Owings and I wonder why. Dombrowski does bring in guys that make you wonder why and it can contribute to a top heavy roster.
But you balance everything and I think Dombrowski deserves to keep his job. I do think things will be better next season if nothing changes, simply because everything broke the wrong way this year, but I have a feeling this will be a shakeup offseason, and because it will be, I wonder if John Henry will want somebody else to do the shaking up, even if I don't think Dombrowski should lose his job.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 26, 2019 9:56:14 GMT -5
I'm really neutral about Dombrowski. I was worried he wouldn't stop trading but he finally did. But the Red Sox have Romero ready to take over and I'm just as confident in him if not more so.
I wonder how Dombrowksi would have done if he weren't handed the best farm system we'll likely ever see though along with the largest budget in MLB.
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Post by borisman on Aug 26, 2019 10:13:53 GMT -5
I didnt start out picking a fight. I started out saying i thought that it is absolutely Dombrowski’s call on who gets drafted early. Internet guy then came out with my thought was insane and to let me know he DID NOT like my post lol.I specifically said that i didn’t believe Dombrowski would be the go to guy in the later rounds and I would also assume he wouldnt want to be. The thousands of hours the scouts put in are so they can paint a concise picture of the different players to management and narrow it down just so Dombrowski can pick from a much smaller field. Even Belichick isnt looking through every single college football player. That is insane, however, it is not what I am saying. Much like DD, he looks at what are the consensus top players closely and lets his scouts tip him off to players that may be Patriot types later in the draft. Actually, Belichick may be superhuman so its possible he does scout every single player lol. I took it as him not knowing that you could un-like a post. But welcome to the board anyway. I think Pats scouts narrow down the draft pool to about 50-60 players so Bellichick will know all of those really well. The rest would never be drafted by them no matter how much talent they had. Not to go slightly off topic but this part is true. The Patriots have one of, if not the, smallest draft boards of all teams. One other thing the Pats are good at is knowing what needs other teams have and may move ahead of them to draft a player (see Gronk and Baltimore in 2010... we got stuck with hall of fame TE and Baltimore had to draft Ed Dickson instead in 3rd round). That sometimes backfires on them and the opposite happens.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Aug 26, 2019 10:53:16 GMT -5
My two cents on the topic. I think Dombrowski did as good of a job as anyone could have hoped for. He hit on a lot of his acquisitions and missed on some but his Red Sox resume as far as results is prob a solid A. With that said I let him go in the off-season and give the reigns to Romero. DD is getting up there in age and Romero is considered an upcoming Star in the industry. Do we trade a few years of DD for Romero?? I say no! Because Romero will eventually be offered The top position by some other team prob as early as this offseason
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Dombrowski
Aug 26, 2019 10:53:49 GMT -5
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Aug 26, 2019 10:53:49 GMT -5
I'm really neutral about Dombrowski. I was worried he wouldn't stop trading but he finally did. But the Red Sox have Romero ready to take over and I'm just as confident in him if not more so. I wonder how Dombrowksi would have done if he weren't handed the best farm system we'll likely ever see though along with the largest budget in MLB. I think Dombrowski works at the pace ownership tells him to work at. He might be trigger happy, but has shown patience and until a prospect really comes back to haunt them, I'm not really upset with his moves. He hasn't drafted super well, blame his staff or whomever, but it still falls back to him. He has proven that he can build up a core of guys, but he's never been around long enough to see it come to fruition. It's fair to say he didn't really bring in anyone that helped this year, but the vast majority of guys, especially pitchers, were busts. Sometimes that's the market. The best move is no move. His biggest blunder was over-paying Eovaldi and Pearce and thinking a combination of Nunez/Pedrioa could handle 2B.
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Post by jbsox on Aug 26, 2019 12:07:40 GMT -5
Regarding DD and the farm system one thing I do like is we have a nice correlation of talent from where our major league roster currently stands. What I mean is we have hopefully several current positional players that will be our core for several years to come continuing one of the best offenses in baseball, so it’s not necessary to have top end almost MLB ready prospects there. Many of our best positional prospects are in the lower levels that could be ready to take over when the time comes years down the road. If say JBJ leaves we have able replacements in possibly Duran and Wilson. For 2nd base and 1st our most pressing near future position needs we have several able in house candidates to at least hold the fort until likes of Casas ect comes along. Our farm system seems pretty deep in relief pitching with cheap options to supplement the expensive rotation. Speaking of starting rotation Mata, Groome, Song ect may just be ready to take over when some of our expensive SPs comes off the books.
Of course not everything goes according to plan, but I like where our farm system is at as it has a nice correlation to our mlb roster needs IMO. In a vacuum our farm system may be ranked 23 or whatever, but as far as where our current major league roster stands I think it’s just fine. I’d like to think DD is a big reason for that.
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gerry
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Dombrowski
Aug 26, 2019 12:28:09 GMT -5
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Post by gerry on Aug 26, 2019 12:28:09 GMT -5
I'm really neutral about Dombrowski. I was worried he wouldn't stop trading but he finally did. But the Red Sox have Romero ready to take over and I'm just as confident in him if not more so. I wonder how Dombrowksi would have done if he weren't handed the best farm system we'll likely ever see though along with the largest budget in MLB. I think Dombrowski works at the pace ownership tells him to work at. He might be trigger happy, but has shown patience and until a prospect really comes back to haunt them, I'm not really upset with his moves. He hasn't drafted super well, blame his staff or whomever, but it still falls back to him. He has proven that he can build up a core of guys, but he's never been around long enough to see it come to fruition. It's fair to say he didn't really bring in anyone that helped this year, but the vast majority of guys, especially pitchers, were busts. Sometimes that's the market. The best move is no move. His biggest blunder was over-paying Eovaldi and Pearce and thinking a combination of Nunez/Pedrioa could handle 2B. To your final point, also to be fair, it was not unreasonable to think that Pedey could be at least average in 2019, which would have been more than enough, especially knowing that Holt, Lin, probably Marco would back him up. Also, Nunez was under contract, had recovered from his injuries and coulda/shoulda at least provided a decent bat, as well as backup for a still rehabbing Pedey and still developing Devers. Not to mention Nunie’s contributions to a young, fairly staid clubhouse. It wasn’t a bad plan under the circumstances. Not at all unreasonable assumptions. Plus, Pedey and Nunez, in fact, combined for $20M in 2019, appeared to be healthy and therefore likely productive. Perhaps AC used Nunez improperly? Perhaps this is on the medical staff? Good for DDo for being active in a tight spot: bringing up Chavis, promoting CJ and Dalbec, even giving CO a shot.
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Post by soxjim on Aug 26, 2019 15:08:49 GMT -5
Dombrowski left the Marlins after 2001 and they won the World Series in 2003. Also, Dombrowski left the Expos in 1991 and they had a .582 winning percentage over the next three seasons. And for whatever it's worth, the 2016 Tigers, the first team after they let him go mid-'15, weren't eliminated until the final day of the regular season. I personally think it's disgusting quite frankly the way the fan base is treating Dombrowski. Even if you want to say he had a bad year, put him on notice the following season. 3 division titles and a ring and we want to boot him for not building a bullpen (top 10 in ERA, best since trade deadline), not able to build a farm despite getting him to gut your system for ML ready talent and then when he's done doing that upgrades your system from 30th to 22nd, and signing guys to long term deals that we have no idea how they'll work out. Eovaldi looks awful. Sale seems very risky. These aren't super long-term contracts and since they have very little in SP talent on the farm you had to spend to get guys. Loved your post. When I 1st heard there was some trouble I thought it was a joke. Then I heard about "isolation" and I was shocked. Unless at his age he just let on he is done or more logical if the owner is upset with him that he didn't want to spend and told him he either wins "enough/ certain level" or he is done, I can't understand any other major beef with DD. I heard one time Bradford talking about it. He didn't seem against DD going but Bradford is the type I think has the "big market star bias" and looks for next wonder which I think you are suggesting with certain fan base too.
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Post by ryan24 on Aug 27, 2019 6:43:51 GMT -5
I think there are a lot of legitimate criticisms of him, and I think the "he always seems to know which prospects to trade" got overblown in '18 when a lot of guys had down years at once. But he did a great job building that 2016 to 2018 team and I think there is a sub-population of people who wanted the Red Sox to **GO FOR IT** but also not bear any long-term consequences of that. The 2019 team is a bit weaker because of the 2016 and 2017 deals, but they also won the 2018 World Series because of them! And it wasn't like a fluky 2013 World Series, either - it was a very well built team that improved over time and gradually tinkered with to get the parts right. He did a great job building them. At the other end, while Dombrowski's gotten some credit for the moves he didn't make this past offseason, he also didn't make any that ended up benefitting the team - he didn't have a good offseason and I think it's okay to say so. (EDIT: If you want to count the Bogaerts extension as happening in the offseason, though, he gets a ton of credit for that. As has been mentioned elsewhere, dude would've gotten paid this offseason.) I dunno. I think "Dombrowski has gone scorched earth and ruined the team long-term" is a crazy take but "Dombrowski might be the wrong guy to build the next contender based on the current resources" might be fair. I personally think he's earned the chance to fail based on what he did his first three full seasons and the fact that he's going to win about 87-89 games in his bad year. It is crazy to even think about firing Dave. Last year everyone for the most part had a great year. This year the pitching is terrible. With the exception of Kimbrel and Kelly basically the same group. You can go thru and critic each decision he made this year and if it turned out bad it was a dumb move. If it turns out good it was a great move. That's the nature of the business. This year the luck we had last year ran out this year. I think that this year was a transition year. They saw the opportunity to win it all and spent the money last year. This year they thought they had outstanding starters. It did not work out. If in July they were where they thought the would be Dave would have gone out and got what they needed. The sox along with several of the big market teams are trying to figure the navigation out among several factors. Cap and pool penalties can severely hamper your team down the road. You need a farm system to supplement the big league club. You need to balance your core against the big long term salaries. In today's market that is getting tougher. Dave I think has proven that he is very capable of handling these landmines. and get to another WS. I think the two much bigger questions are! 1. What do they do with Ed R so they do not lose him? 2. Where in hell are they going to find a pitching guru to develop starting pitching in the farm system?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Aug 27, 2019 6:46:29 GMT -5
You are telling me that the GM only has minimal input into who gets drafted onto his team?? I understand that they have an entire team that looks over draft prospects and I am sure he relies heavily on his staff for the later rounds but there is absolutely no chance whatsoever that the GM isnt one of the top 3 people in the organization that has control into who is chosen. 22nd round, sure, that is scouting director’s time to shine. Those top draft picks (not just the first) and most definitely the International free agents are one of the biggest responsibilities a GM, (constructor of the organization), has in creating the team. Cherington was gifted plenty, screwed up plenty and in no way was i sad to see him go. Your post strikes me as a roundabout way of giving Dombrowski a pass on recent drafts. That is what I am telling you. The GM (or President of Baseball Ops, or whatever the position is titled) is in the room for Day 1 probably and that's about it. The Director of Amateur Scouting is typically empowered with running the draft room after the first round or two. I can't say I know this to be true for all 30 organizations. I can say that there's no way the GM/PBO has enough information that he'd be a voice worth having in the room. Like I said, the fair criticism of the GM/PBO draft-wise would be the hiring/retention/firing fo the personnel who run the draft, the same way he's responsible for the personnel who do international scouting, or the coaching staff (GM/PBO isn't making specific in-game decisions), or the advance scouts (GM/PBO isn't watching tape on every team the club is about to play), or any number of departments under his purview in the organization. The GM/PBO can't possibly have direct, hands-on interaction with all of these aspects of what you could call "baseball operations." It's just not possible. The NFL is a terrible comparison. The universe of players and the timing are all completely different. If the NFL season ran for 8 months and they played every night and the draft were in the middle of it and the universe of players that could be drafted were expanded to high school players who played year-round then Belichick wouldn't be able to handle all aspects the way he does either.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 27, 2019 7:33:53 GMT -5
The Red Sox organization has 300 baseball players in it! Beyond the additional day-to-day work, it's an organization about four times the size of an NFL counterpart.
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Post by iakovos11 on Aug 27, 2019 7:43:40 GMT -5
The Red Sox organization has 300 baseball players in it! Beyond the additional day-to-day work, it's an organization about four times the size of an NFL counterpart. It's about 4-5 years before most players drafted area ready for MLB. That's a lot of development time between scouting looks/info for draft time and scouting info in the upper minors. Completely different than the NFL where most guys are looked upon to come in and compete immediately, or maybe be on the roster/practice squad and develop a bit until they are more ready the following year.
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 27, 2019 8:07:43 GMT -5
Also, the idea that Dombrowski not having a lot of input into the draft somehow lets him off the hook doesn't make a lot of sense, since I think three of the four drafts since he took over have been good. 2017 isn't looking too hot right now (even though Houck is basically MLB-ready as a reliever two years later). But 2016 was solid, 2018 looks quite good right now, and I'm happy with the early 2019 returns.
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Dombrowski
Aug 28, 2019 22:00:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by larrycook on Aug 28, 2019 22:00:44 GMT -5
Our team’s inability to develop quality starting pitching started long before desperate Dave got hired and will probably continue after Henry shows him the door.
Dave gets a pass on that issue.
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