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8/23-8/25 Red Sox @ Padres Series Thread
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 25, 2019 1:47:25 GMT -5
Chris Cotillo @chriscotillo · 1h Postgame tidbits: * Benintendi had left side tightness and was removed from the game. He's day-to-day but won't play tomorrow. * Brian Johnson starts tomorrow. * Cora wore a Florida shirt to pay off his bet with Johnson after UF beat Miami. * Eovaldi said he was gasses by the 4th
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Post by orion09 on Aug 25, 2019 1:57:52 GMT -5
Fab job by "Work." Why pitch to Machardo-and he didn't. Nice win and good game for those RS fans in the stands. Love to visit that park some time. And I'd like one of those black RS hats too. I was at the park during the SABR convention, and it's really nice. We got a lot of Padres history at the convention, and I pretty much fell in love with their fanbase -- they overwhelmed the team at the airport when they returned home from Chicago trailing 0-2 (and being outscored 17-2) in the 1984 ALCS, and are widely credited for the comeback. There were other stories about their loyalty and love for the game that I don't remember.
I didn't notice it at the time, but IIRC they also did less phony urging the fans to cheer than just about any team I've seen in the new ballpark era. In contrast, I remember being really let down at how much the Cardinals, who supposedly have smart fans, did that at new Busch.
But the best thing about the park is that it's smack-dab in the middle of a terrific, hugely walkable part of downtown. On the last night of the convention we went to a Mexican joint for dinner, and had a 45 minute wait, so we walked around and ended up at the park, which is designed so pedestrians can see the game from CF. (I then lost my papas fritas virginity, one of the best Mexican dishes I've ever had -- fries stayed crisp buried in a bowl with spicy chicken, salsa, black beans, guac, et al (including and some stuff I couldn't identify).
It was also less hot there the whole time than it was back home in Boston.
Last time I was in SD we went to a cool rooftop bar overlooking Petco. Fun time sipping mojitos and looking down at the ballpark. Here’s a pic (not mine):
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 25, 2019 3:00:17 GMT -5
I was at the park during the SABR convention, and it's really nice. We got a lot of Padres history at the convention, and I pretty much fell in love with their fanbase -- they overwhelmed the team at the airport when they returned home from Chicago trailing 0-2 (and being outscored 17-2) in the 1984 ALCS, and are widely credited for the comeback. There were other stories about their loyalty and love for the game that I don't remember. I didn't notice it at the time, but IIRC they also did less phony urging the fans to cheer than just about any team I've seen in the new ballpark era. In contrast, I remember being really let down at how much the Cardinals, who supposedly have smart fans, did that at new Busch.
But the best thing about the park is that it's smack-dab in the middle of a terrific, hugely walkable part of downtown. On the last night of the convention we went to a Mexican joint for dinner, and had a 45 minute wait, so we walked around and ended up at the park, which is designed so pedestrians can see the game from CF. (I then lost my papas fritas virginity, one of the best Mexican dishes I've ever had -- fries stayed crisp buried in a bowl with spicy chicken, salsa, black beans, guac, et al (including and some stuff I couldn't identify). It was also less hot there the whole time than it was back home in Boston.
Last time I was in SD we went to a cool rooftop bar overlooking Petco. Fun time sipping mojitos and looking down at the ballpark. Here’s a pic (not mine): For trips to San Diego, I'd seriously recommend a trip to Old Town for their authentic Mexican food and Margaritas. Warning though, you'll need a driver after just one (they are huge). There are a ton of great attractions in the area.
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Post by sarasoxer on Aug 25, 2019 6:03:57 GMT -5
All I want for Christmas is for Darwinzon to develop into a starter next year. I'd sit on Santa's knee. But with his lack of command (historically) that I don't see dramatically improving, the effort he puts into his pitches, and an expected velocity drop as starter, I think that he'd last 4-5. For the foreseeable future, IMO, he and the Sox, have found his niche. We have long pined for a power BP lefty. We now have one.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 25, 2019 7:48:14 GMT -5
On the morning of the 25th: In 1973, Mets were 6.5 back of Cards, in last place. In 2011, Rays were 8.5 behind Sox.
I'm looking forward to Brian Johnson hitting today. He never should have given it up.
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Post by patford on Aug 25, 2019 9:55:37 GMT -5
Last night felt exactly like this year's prototypical Sox game where the Sox lose.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Aug 25, 2019 10:04:23 GMT -5
All I want for Christmas is for Darwinzon to develop into a starter next year. I'd sit on Santa's knee. But with his lack of command (historically) that I don't see dramatically improving, the effort he puts into his pitches, and an expected velocity drop as starter, I think that he'd last 4-5. For the foreseeable future, IMO, he and the Sox, have found his niche. We have long pined for a power BP lefty. We now have one. he is fun to watch in that role. He is just 22 though, I think they should still try next year, they can always plug him back in to this role. We need to have more patience to try and develop starters, it is the organization's achilles heel.
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Post by patford on Aug 25, 2019 11:34:26 GMT -5
I'd sit on Santa's knee. But with his lack of command (historically) that I don't see dramatically improving, the effort he puts into his pitches, and an expected velocity drop as starter, I think that he'd last 4-5. For the foreseeable future, IMO, he and the Sox, have found his niche. We have long pined for a power BP lefty. We now have one. he is fun to watch in that role. He is just 22 though, I think they should still try next year, they can always plug him back in to this role. We need to have more patience to try and develop starters, it is the organization's achilles heel. It isn't unusual at all for pitchers to take time to develop. Of course it is more common that they don't turn a corner with command and control but it happens.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Aug 25, 2019 11:37:43 GMT -5
I'd sit on Santa's knee. But with his lack of command (historically) that I don't see dramatically improving, the effort he puts into his pitches, and an expected velocity drop as starter, I think that he'd last 4-5. For the foreseeable future, IMO, he and the Sox, have found his niche. We have long pined for a power BP lefty. We now have one. he is fun to watch in that role. He is just 22 though, I think they should still try next year, they can always plug him back in to this role. We need to have more patience to try and develop starters, it is the organization's achilles heel. Except that the Red Sox have taken a patient approach with a lot of marginal starting pitching prospects over the years, and when has it ever worked out for them? It usually just ends with guys getting hurt and falling off before they have a chance to contribute, or they just end up in the bullpen anyway. And specific to Darwinzon, he's got such a strong reliever profile, you'd really be putting the team's needs in front of the player's best developmental path, which isn't likely to benefit anyone. It isn't unusual at all for pitchers to take time to develop. Of course it is more common that they don't turn a corner with command and control but it happens. Darwinzon would have to take not one but several steps forward on his command/control, AND develop a third pitch, before you're really talking about him as a significant piece in the rotation. It's not a matter of turning the corner, he has to turn like three or four corners. It's just asking for too many things to go right.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 25, 2019 12:30:15 GMT -5
At this point, I'm even annoyed when Cora tries to get more than one inning out of Darwinzon. I feel like they could mess with him starting until he reaches age 27-28 like Andrew Miller, and then he'd turn into Andrew Miller the dominant relief pitcher when he's on his 3rd team.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Aug 25, 2019 12:56:39 GMT -5
WOAT Chris Owings is in the lineup
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Aug 25, 2019 13:20:14 GMT -5
WOAT Chris Owings is in the lineup And Dr. Chill is at first base. Vs. LHP
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 25, 2019 14:32:51 GMT -5
At this point, I'm even annoyed when Cora tries to get more than one inning out of Darwinzon. I feel like they could mess with him starting until he reaches age 27-28 like Andrew Miller, and then he'd turn into Andrew Miller the dominant relief pitcher when he's on his 3rd team. The thing is, if Darwinzon improves his command markedly while pitching in the pen, and you are thin on starters (which seems likely), then you can try the conversion. Like a lot of relievers with elite stuff, he can still be a force while walking more guys than average. If he starts walking fewer guys than average, then you get excited and stretch him out as a starter the next year in ST.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 25, 2019 14:37:53 GMT -5
Puig just flied out with 2 outs and the bases full in the 7th, leaving the Indians tied 3-3.
The O's lead the Rays 8-3 in the bottom of the 7th and have 2 on with nobody out. The Rays WP is down to 0.9%. I feel good about that one ...
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 25, 2019 14:42:15 GMT -5
At this point, I'm even annoyed when Cora tries to get more than one inning out of Darwinzon. I feel like they could mess with him starting until he reaches age 27-28 like Andrew Miller, and then he'd turn into Andrew Miller the dominant relief pitcher when he's on his 3rd team. The thing is, if Darwinzon improves his command markedly while pitching in the pen, and you are thin on starters (which seems likely), then you can try the conversion. Like a lot of relievers with elite stuff, he can still be a force while walking more guys than average. If he starts walking fewer guys than average, then you get excited and stretch him out as a starter the next year in ST. He can't be a force without a 3rd pitch though, the second time through the order. What's his 3rd pitch and when is he going to master it while relieving?
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 25, 2019 14:51:51 GMT -5
The thing is, if Darwinzon improves his command markedly while pitching in the pen, and you are thin on starters (which seems likely), then you can try the conversion. Like a lot of relievers with elite stuff, he can still be a force while walking more guys than average. If he starts walking fewer guys than average, then you get excited and stretch him out as a starter the next year in ST. He can't be a force without a 3rd pitch though, the second time through the order. What's his 3rd pitch and when is he going to master it while relieving? I meant force as a reliever, which we're seeing already. If converted to a starter, he'd be nothing special, #3 on a bad team of #4 on a contender, and hence quite possibly more valuable than he would be in the pen. That's why I added the condition of also having a thin rotation.
BTW, it's a complete myth that you need a third good pitch to be a successful starter. I did that study when they were converting Bard. In fact the number of starters with three plus pitches is small.
If you have two plus pitches, you just need a third that you can show people to keep them honest.
And as you suggest (whether you intended to or not!), if he projected to be of equal value in both roles, you convert him so he can work more on a 3rd pitch, which would then make him a better starter.
Meanwhile, Jorge Soler went deep with a man on and the Indians WP is 15.2% in the top of the 8th. Rays are down to 0.6%.
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Post by chrisfromnc on Aug 25, 2019 15:24:53 GMT -5
After two batters, it doesn’t look like Brian J has much.
edit. Much worse after three batters. He’s throwing it exactly at the barrel of their bats. Is that a skill?
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Post by manfred on Aug 25, 2019 15:24:55 GMT -5
He can't be a force without a 3rd pitch though, the second time through the order. What's his 3rd pitch and when is he going to master it while relieving? I meant force as a reliever, which we're seeing already. If converted to a starter, he'd be nothing special, #3 on a bad team of #4 on a contender, and hence quite possibly more valuable than he would be in the pen. That's why I added the condition of also having a thin rotation.
BTW, it's a complete myth that you need a third good pitch to be a successful starter. I did that study when they were converting Bard. In fact the number of starters with three plus pitches is small.
If you have two plus pitches, you just need a third that you can show people to keep them honest.
And as you suggest (whether you intended to or not!), if he projected to be of equal value in both roles, you convert him so he can work more on a 3rd pitch, which would then make him a better starter.
Meanwhile, Jorge Soler went deep with a man on and the Indians WP is 15.2% in the top of the 8th. Rays are down to 0.6%.
This makes sense to me, with a few caveats: how many guys have two plus pitches? And... if you don’t have at least an average third pitch, you are screwed if one of those plus pitches is off. I don’t think a pitcher can start with only two pitches at all — no matter how good.
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atzar
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Post by atzar on Aug 25, 2019 15:26:10 GMT -5
BJ doesn't look like an MLB-caliber pitcher at this point. Even when he survives innings without giving up runs, he does so by the skin of his teeth.
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cutz
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Post by cutz on Aug 25, 2019 15:26:12 GMT -5
Wow, i'm shocked that its 3-0 already
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Post by kevfc89 on Aug 25, 2019 15:28:14 GMT -5
when i see the rays and indians lose i start to think we can still make a run. then i realize we're running brian johnson out there every few days and snap back to reality.
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Post by station13 on Aug 25, 2019 15:29:35 GMT -5
Can't believe we're witnessing this. This is an atrocity.
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Post by chrisfromnc on Aug 25, 2019 15:31:27 GMT -5
He has zero. If Cora intends to win this game, he has to take him out right away.
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Post by wildsox on Aug 25, 2019 15:32:10 GMT -5
If we were serious about making a run for the playoffs there’s no way we would have Brian Johnson starting and Chris Owings in the lineup.
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Post by chrisfromnc on Aug 25, 2019 15:33:54 GMT -5
Only three runs given up sorta seems like a gift right there.
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