SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
2020 Vision: Position Players
|
Post by manfred on Sept 17, 2019 8:29:00 GMT -5
I’m trying to understand. Sale doesn’t need TJ at the moment but he might so: 1) Trade Mookie plus maybe Workman (our best reliever). 2) To help fill the gaps created by that, trade JBJ.
So now in this scenario you are down 1 starter, the closer, and two thirds of the outfield for a theoretical return of one everyday player a top-100 prospect and a relief arm? That seems bad in both the short and long runs.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Sept 17, 2019 8:36:21 GMT -5
I’m trying to understand. I suggest trying that "Doomsday Preppers" program that the National Geographic channel used to show a few years back. The best use of time and resources is definitely to assume that the worst case scenario not just may happen, but is currently happening and that we're probably already too late. Abandon your house, hole up in your bunker, and leave those suckers on the outside with your "possessions" as they get mollywhopped with a deadly combination of tornadoes, wolf attacks, and the rapture.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 17, 2019 13:50:04 GMT -5
I’m trying to understand. Sale doesn’t need TJ at the moment but he might so: 1) Trade Mookie plus maybe Workman (our best reliever). 2) To help fill the gaps created by that, trade JBJ. So now in this scenario you are down 1 starter, the closer, and two thirds of the outfield for a theoretical return of one everyday player a top-100 prospect and a relief arm? That seems bad in both the short and long runs. All three of JBJ, Mookie, and Workman are eligible for free agency for 2020. Unlike the the post mocking me above, this is a long term plan. All three of these players are going to free agency for save maybe Workman (who could be resigned to a extension maybe). The list of players getting in return is either- - Two top 10 prospects in a farm system and a everyday player - Three top 10 prospects in a farm system - One reliever traded or signed (or two relievers signed) - Or one starter traded (if there's a releiever signed) This is no doubt better for the long term run and positions the Sox very strongly in 2021.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 17, 2019 14:04:46 GMT -5
I’m trying to understand. Sale doesn’t need TJ at the moment but he might so: 1) Trade Mookie plus maybe Workman (our best reliever). 2) To help fill the gaps created by that, trade JBJ. So now in this scenario you are down 1 starter, the closer, and two thirds of the outfield for a theoretical return of one everyday player a top-100 prospect and a relief arm? That seems bad in both the short and long runs. All three of JBJ, Mookie, and Workman are eligible for free agency for 2020. Unlike the the post mocking me above, this is a long term plan. All three of these players are going to free agency for save maybe Workman (who could be resigned to a extension maybe). The list of players getting in return is either- - Two top 10 prospects in a farm system and a everyday player - Three top 10 prospects in a farm system - One reliever traded or signed - Or one starter traded (if there's a releiever signed) This is no doubt better for the long term run and positions the Sox very strongly in 2021. I don’t see how this helps much in 2021. Your pitching staff is even older, you may or may not have these two prospects ready.... if they ever are. And you have an unnamed everyday guy who must be worse than Betts or else why wd the trading partner throw in major prospects? This assuming a team would give that good a package to take one year of a guy you are convinced won’t sign. That strikes me as highly unlikely. The biggest packages in the last few years have been for relatively low-cost guys under control, like Archer and Sale. This isn’t that. Heck, if Mookie walks, the Sox could turn the pick into a top prospect, which is only one less than they’d get in your trade. Then they can sign a lesser everyday player with the savings and viola! Almost as good a trade with one more year of Mookie.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 17, 2019 14:08:44 GMT -5
All three of JBJ, Mookie, and Workman are eligible for free agency for 2020. Unlike the the post mocking me above, this is a long term plan. All three of these players are going to free agency for save maybe Workman (who could be resigned to a extension maybe). The list of players getting in return is either- - Two top 10 prospects in a farm system and a everyday player - Three top 10 prospects in a farm system - One reliever traded or signed - Or one starter traded (if there's a releiever signed) This is no doubt better for the long term run and positions the Sox very strongly in 2021. I don’t see how this helps much in 2021. Your pitching staff is even older, you may or may not have these two prospects ready.... if they ever are. And you have an unnamed everyday guy who must be worse than Betts or else why wd the trading partner throw in major prospects? This assuming a team would give that good a package to take one year of a guy you are convinced won’t sign. That strikes me as highly unlikely. The biggest packages in the last few years have been for relatively low-cost guys under control, like Archer and Sale. This isn’t that. Heck, if Mookie walks, the Sox could turn the pick into a top prospect, which is only one less than they’d get in your trade. Then they can sign a lesser everyday player with the savings and viola! Almost as good a trade with one more year of Mookie. -Mookie will be exchanged for a fourth round pick in free agency if he walks (bad pick) -Mata will be ready in 2021. -You are hopefully turning the Mookie trade into a talented pitching prospect and outfield prospect that will thrive in 2021. -If Sale needs TJS in 2020, it should come early as we will know if the PRP injection worked or not in spring training. If he does need it, he should be ready for the latter half of 2021. That should clear things up.
|
|
|
Post by wcsoxfan on Sept 17, 2019 15:07:57 GMT -5
Without improving their starting pitching, the Red Sox aren't challengers as I think we all agree based on everything that has been discussed so far. Making this move would also help if rebuilding is the answer - but I don't think they're there yet.
Given Mookie's talent and track record, plus his marketability (this is important to the owner who has to sign off on a big deal like this) he's a valuable commodity and can likely be used as a couple to improve the team either in a rebuild, or to extend their window another few years. What do you mean by the underlined? ERod looked terrific. Do you think Sale and Price and Eovaldi are done? SOx have 4 starters here. Potentially very high quality. No way they can find a cheap guy that won't completely implode? They have many bullpen pitchers. I assume your question is rhetorical? The Red Sox need to add 1-2 cheap guys who won't completely implode for their 6th & 7th depth spots, and that's a tall task based on what they showed this past year, and every team would like a cheap starting pitcher who is solid (and most have them in AA/AAA). This is due to their 3 aging and injury prone pitchers as well as Eduardo who stayed healthy for the first time in his career. If you squint and hope, these guys could be one of the best rotations in baseball and make the need for an additional strong starter (to save the bullpen at least) a moot point, but they weren't close to that this year and it's unfair to bet on them being that 1 year older. They need an additional good starting pitcher just to get them to the playoffs, and once in the playoffs they will need a guy they can rely on for strong innings so that Eovaldi and Sale (or even Price) can be used out of the bullpen as they're likely to be worn down by then. I would much rather a full rebuild than going into next year with the same top 4 and a couple of flier guys for the 5th spot. But neither of those options should be considered just yet (unless ownership mandates getting under the tax).
|
|
|
Post by texs31 on Sept 17, 2019 20:44:35 GMT -5
Just checking in here and can't help but feeling I MUST have missed something with my late arrival. You want to blow it all up bc you're concerned about our 5th/6th/7th starters? Am I reading that right?
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Sept 18, 2019 23:09:12 GMT -5
I wouldn’t mind Puig on the Sox next year.
Would bring some excitement to the team
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Sept 19, 2019 8:13:29 GMT -5
Puig has a five year line of .263/.329/.462. That outstanding 2014 season is just looking further and further away. If a team needed an outfielder it would be one thing, but it's hard to see how he fits.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 19, 2019 8:32:17 GMT -5
Puig has a five year line of .263/.329/.462. That outstanding 2014 season is just looking further and further away. If a team needed an outfielder it would be one thing, but it's hard to see how he fits. And 5 year bWARs 2015 0.9 2016 0.6 2017 2.0 2018 2.1 2019 1.1 and we complain about JBJ who has significantly topped him every year for the past 5 years and is averaging about 2 1/2 times that for less money.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Sept 19, 2019 8:48:38 GMT -5
Those are his offensive WAR totals. His bWAR has been:
2015: 1.1 (missed 84 games with injury) 2016: 1.3 2017: 3.8 2018: 2.7 2019: 1.4
3.5 per 650 PA, which is not so far from Bradley, though Bradley has been consistently healthy which is a plus for him as well. Puig's been pretty good, and people who talked about him like he was the problem with the Dodgers were pretty off base. But there's not a fit on the Red Sox that I see. And for what it's worth, Puig only got $1.2M more than Bradley this year.
|
|
|
Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 19, 2019 9:20:55 GMT -5
My bad but I still don't see anything to get excited about even if there was a fit. ADD: You guys still have a harvest moon ? I looked when I read about it a week or so ago but we only had a regular moon but, tonight, it's about a 95%er that's big and golden colored. By the time the Sox game gets underway it should be above the treeline. Should be spectacular. Edit: It wasn't a harvest moon, it was one of those moons that starts large on the horizon then goes back to normal as it rises in the sky.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 20, 2019 0:33:58 GMT -5
Holt isn't coming back people and CJ Catham is one of the reasons why he isn't coming back.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Sept 20, 2019 15:03:39 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by huskies15 on Sept 20, 2019 15:09:01 GMT -5
Everyone is different and maybe there's no event that brought about this, but is there anything that happened to make Mookie seem so resigned to making a change?
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 20, 2019 21:23:22 GMT -5
I completely disagree with guidas' interpretation of those quotes. He's saying he doesn't care about paying his career in one place. He's being pragmatic. He didn't say "but I'm probably going to have to leave unlike Yaz". He said seeing the reception that Yaz got didn't sway him at all. Which is the lone reasonable response.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Sept 20, 2019 21:25:29 GMT -5
I completely disagree with guidas' interpretation of those quotes. He's saying he doesn't care about paying his career in one place. He's being pragmatic. He didn't say "but I'm probably going to have to leave unlike Yaz". He said seeing the reception that Yaz got didn't sway him at all. Which is the lone reasonable response. Unfortunately, there's an entire army of fans looking to validate their preconceived notions of what he's thinking. I'll be hopeful that he remains until he's no longer on the team.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 20, 2019 22:43:45 GMT -5
Either way of your interpretation, the writing is on the wall.
Every indication shows the Sox are willing to listen and Mookie cares just as much about getting his value.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 21, 2019 4:47:54 GMT -5
Atlanta has even more reasons to trade for Betts this off-season, and this is one of them. The close proximity to his home in Tennessee gives them some hope to signing a extension too. He's probably the best fit for them in CF and Atlanta has a lot to give the Sox in return.
Also, for the nay sayers on Betts can't fetch much. Yeah, that isn't what's being put out there.
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Sept 21, 2019 10:42:33 GMT -5
Betts comments are very weird if you want to take the stance they mean nothing. He's talking about and thinking about guys switching teams. If your Machado on the Orioles that makes sense, yet playing for the team with the third highest revenue in the game it doesn't. He for sure sounds like a guy all about getting his amount and seems to have doubts that Boston will be that team. Given the reports we have seen that makes sense. Betts always seems to be making a point with his comments, not just giving you the standard BS I hope to stay in Boston, but we'll see what happens. The question is that just the way Betts is? Not really thinking the impact of his comments through or is he taking a dig at ownership because they won't offer him his deal and are talking about trading him?
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Sept 21, 2019 11:13:40 GMT -5
Holt isn't coming back people and CJ Catham is one of the reasons why he isn't coming back. Bleh. Not excited about Chatham. Between him, Chavis, Travis, Dalbec, and Hernandez, the Sox are very well-stocked on the right side of the infield with guys at the "might, with luck, be passable" tier. But there's an awful lot of downside potential there.
|
|
|
Post by manfred on Sept 21, 2019 12:14:36 GMT -5
Either way of your interpretation, the writing is on the wall. Every indication shows the Sox are willing to listen and Mookie cares just as much about getting his value. Neither of which means anything one way or the other. Teams should always listen... you could pry Trout from me with some insane offer. As for wanting his value, one would hope so. Why not? And hopefully the Sox give it to him.
|
|
|
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 22, 2019 8:24:09 GMT -5
Bradford brings up the White Sox as a fit for JDM, if he opts out. I say there's a 50/50 chance he does opt out. He should get the qualifying offer if he does opt out.
|
|
|
Post by soxcentral on Sept 22, 2019 9:40:00 GMT -5
Fun quote from JD in that article, clearly still not thrilled with his last experience as a FA.
Sounds to me like he's opting out if there's any hint of a market.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Sept 22, 2019 11:34:15 GMT -5
Bradford brings up the White Sox as a fit for JDM, if he opts out. I say there's a 50/50 chance he does opt out. He should get the qualifying offer if he does opt out. Tbh, as much as I like JDM and think he’ll remain an excellent hitter next year, and probably still very good for the next theee, him opting out and signing elsewhere (especially a non-revenue-sharing team), netting the Sox a draft pick, might be the best thing for the team. That gives them $ to extend Mookie, and they’re in retool mode anyway. I admit it would probably hurt a lot short-term, but i still think they can find someone on the relative cheap to replace a substantial portion of that production. They’d have to hope for some rebounds from Beni and Mookie, and continued improvement from Devers (as well as continued excellence from Bogey) as far as next year goes. But it would put them in better position for 2021. They really need Dalbec to emerge and Chavis to improve, but that’s irrespective of JDM’s presence...it’s just a fact of their salary situation. I do think that they’ll find someone to emerge from the utility group (Hernandez, Lin, Chatham, maybe de la Guerra, etc.). And at the least, their depth there portends finding the hot hand. I agree with you that Holt is probably gone. They really can’t even afford the $4-6M AAV at this point (ok, yes monetarily but probably not in terms of the talent-acquisition hit being in the top threshold results in). OTOH, they could potentially suck it up for one more year tax-wise, and then look to move Price and Eovaldi when those two have less onerous total outlays. The emergence of Darwinzon, Houck, and Mata will be key next year. Hopefully Feltman, too. Maybe Thad Ward announces himself as a back-end candidate for the 2021 rotation; being able to pencil in him, and Mata, makes unloading Price/Eovaldi more palatable if (when) the Sox have to eat salary. It’s a pickle, for sure. Best-case, the outstanding group at Lowell (Murphy, Zeferjahn, Song (?), and Ramirez) has a strong 2020 and work themselves up to high-A a la Ward. That gives them an ETA of late 2021 or early 2022, and maybe provides the Sox with some trade capital for a reasonably-priced young 2/3. It’s a pickle, for sure.
|
|
|