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Breaking News - Dombrowski out
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 9, 2019 1:18:52 GMT -5
He is, but he is also better sourced within the organization than you are, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. If he tries to analyze baseball ignore him, but if there's friction he probably knows about it because he's probably told about it. We know Steinberg and Lucchino used to feed him info and maybe Lucchino still does. Who knows? But something's going on. He's very, very, very fucking adversarial who wants to destroy everyone's lives that he writes about. Doesn't that make him the perfect mouth piece for the owner who has fired 3 GMs, despite delivering 4 championships and threw mud at a manager who won 2 when he was already out the door?
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 9, 2019 1:20:14 GMT -5
They're not going to announce it like you think. Sometimes things go on behind the scenes and it isn't all numerical and analytical. Maybe he wasn't getting along with Kennedy. Maybe he did leave Cora short in the pen as alleged. We're just learning that Farrell's handling of the Machado/Orioles brawl was the incident that made it clear that his days with Dombrowski were numbered. Things go on behind the scenes. Relationships in baseball matter more than the freaking numbers sometimes. That's just the way it is. Something was going on that made the Red Sox say, we're not waiting until the end of the season. He has to go now. I mean look at the 2006 Red Sox. Henry made no moves to dump Theo. And he wasn't trying to dump him in 2010 or 2011 either. This is something different. This is most likely a personality conflict within the organization. Regardless of anything else you have to complain about, the Red Sox had zero reason to fire Dombrowski. He did everything asked and won a championship. I don't even care about it. They fired him because they are incompetent and for no other reason. What is with you? I'm not complaining about a freaking thing. Where in this post is a complaint? Based on his overall performance I don't think he should be fired either, unless....something else was going on that was causing issues. If you're too damn blinded to even consider the possibility of this then you're cutting yourself off. It's like the stance you took on the Ortiz shooting where you bought the govt's word lock, stock, and barrel of why Ortiz was shot. Even Ortiz doesn't believe the official version and is having that investigated. You'd rather close your eyes instead of a reasonable possibility that there is something more than meets the eye.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 1:20:14 GMT -5
He's very, very, very fucking adversarial who wants to destroy everyone's lives that he writes about. Doesn't that make him the perfect mouth piece for the owner who has fired 3 GMs, despite delivering 4 championships and threw mud at a manager who won 2 when he was already out the door? That's gotta be a rhetorical question. Of course.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 9, 2019 1:22:41 GMT -5
but he was the one who control of the purse and created that limitation. If the owner says "Don't go over the "cap" then that is what he says. He is the owner, it is his prerogative. Great. Owner says go over and do everything to win. He wins. Then he gets fired for doing what he asked. i dont think the budget is the only thing here. There have to be other factors. Given the timing of the situation, it seems a bit personal. Besides, there is no guarantee that spending more money would have helped this club. A lot of things just went wrong this year. Do I think he should be fired ? No, I don't. However, Henry is the owner and he did.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 1:23:13 GMT -5
Regardless of anything else you have to complain about, the Red Sox had zero reason to fire Dombrowski. He did everything asked and won a championship. I don't even care about it. They fired him because they are incompetent and for no other reason. What is with you? I'm not complaining about a freaking thing. Where in this post is a complaint? Based on his overall performance I don't think he should be fired either, unless....something else was going on that was causing issues. If you're too damn blinded to even consider the possibility of this then you're cutting yourself off. It's like the stance you took on the Ortiz shooting where you bought the govt's word lock, stock, and barrel of why Ortiz was shot. Even Ortiz doesn't believe the official version and is having that investigated. You'd rather close your eyes instead of a reasonable possibility that there is something more than meets the eye. I really have nothing else to say. If they come out and say something useful or interesting which I severely doubt, I'm all ears. I wouldn't be arguing with anyone if there weren't 1000 fans already arguing with me, which you jumped on top of.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 1:25:16 GMT -5
Great. Owner says go over and do everything to win. He wins. Then he gets fired for doing what he asked. i dont think the budget is the only thing here. There have to be other factors. Given the timing of the situation, it seems a bit personal. Besides, there is no guarantee that spending more money would have helped this club. A lot of things just went wrong this year. Do I think he should be fired ? No, I don't. However, Henry is the owner and he did. You don't have to explain to me how firing people works. lol I completely understand that Henry is the owner, and he fired people as is his right. My disagreement is where we differ. I'm ready to hear the real reasons.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 9, 2019 1:26:03 GMT -5
He is, but he is also better sourced within the organization than you are, so I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it. If he tries to analyze baseball ignore him, but if there's friction he probably knows about it because he's probably told about it. We know Steinberg and Lucchino used to feed him info and maybe Lucchino still does. Who knows? But something's going on. He's very, very, very fucking adversarial who wants to destroy everyone's lives that he writes about. I don't know how much people realize that coaching with hindsight is so god damn easy. Notice Shaughnessy doesn't do a god damn thing that counts for anything. Quit whining about how coaching with hindsight is easy. We all know 20-20 vision is hindsight. You're being obtuse about the possibility that something more is going on. Shaughnessy might very well be a sh#t stirrer but that doesn't mean that nothing is going on. I'm not one for conspiracy theories but just because the official version is that JFK was shot by a lone assassin that means that it's not reasonably plausible that there was a conspiracy theory. Likewise, it's not unreasonable to think that there was more than a "we didn't like the results of this season so he's gone" type of firing - like I said when Theo's gambles failed and they missed the playoffs they didn't try to fire him - yet they did with DD. Just because you don't like that theory doesn't mean that it's not plausible. Maybe you wind up being right and they did it as a reactionary measure or maybe they hate that they have the highest payroll and missed the playoffs and overreacted. But until we find that out, we can't rule out that there were some relationship fractures within the organization that made them decide to move on. Stuff we really don't know about yet.
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Post by jackiebradleyjrjr on Sept 9, 2019 1:35:51 GMT -5
i dont think the budget is the only thing here. There have to be other factors. Given the timing of the situation, it seems a bit personal. Besides, there is no guarantee that spending more money would have helped this club. A lot of things just went wrong this year. Do I think he should be fired ? No, I don't. However, Henry is the owner and he did. You don't have to explain to me how firing people works. lol I completely understand that Henry is the owner, and he fired people as is his right. My disagreement is where we differ. I'm ready to hear the real reasons. I mean reading between the lines there seems to be many reasons why this happened. You don’t just fire a guy 45 weeks after winning the WS unless other issues have developed. My recommendation is just relax. I’m sure more will he come out soon. I would imagine the reason is something like this: where do the Sox go from here— complete rebuild, compete next season budget be damned, soft rebuild, etc. DD had one view. Ownership clearly had another. They had to decide extend him or cut him loose. I disagree with the timing but if they disagreed with his vision of what’s next, then I don’t have a problem with the decision. This decision is probably less about this season and more about future seasons. What will be interesting is finding out what ownership wants for next season vs what DD wanted. Regardless, he helped us win a championship and I’ll always be thankful for that.
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Post by jimed14 on Sept 9, 2019 1:39:52 GMT -5
You don't have to explain to me how firing people works. lol I completely understand that Henry is the owner, and he fired people as is his right. My disagreement is where we differ. I'm ready to hear the real reasons. I mean reading between the lines there seems to be many reasons why this happened. You don’t just fire a guy 45 weeks after winning the WS unless other issues have developed. My recommendation is just relax. I’m sure more will he come out soon. I would imagine the reason is something like this: where do the Sox go from here— complete rebuild, compete next season budget be damned, soft rebuild, etc. DD had one view. Ownership clearly had another. They had to decide extend him or cut him loose. I disagree with the timing but if they disagreed with his vision of what’s next, then I don’t have a problem with the decision. This decision is probably less about this season and more about future seasons. What will be interesting is finding out what ownership wants for next season vs what DD wanted. Regardless, he helped us win a championship and I’ll always be thankful for that. OK, I'm waiting then. There has been zero valid reasons so far. But that's where I'm at. All the people who think I'm a Red Sox cheerleader have a challenge.
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atzar
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Post by atzar on Sept 9, 2019 1:56:11 GMT -5
Odd move. Anybody could quibble over this move or that one, but overall I didn’t think his performance warranted termination. Makes me think something happened behind the curtains.
Mookie-related, perhaps? Just a guess.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 9, 2019 1:59:21 GMT -5
LOL. Me and my mother knew Mookie Betts wasn't going to get resigned.
Conflict of interests is at stake here. That's why Dombrowski got fired or whatever. My bottom line theory, but no one believes Pedrofan. Whatever, man. That's all I got to say.
EXPECT MOOKIE TO GET TRADED. I've been arguing it ad nauseam on this forum and now it's happening (due to organizational direction/GM change/not wanting to pay bottom dollar). Surprised. Shocked. Whatever. (Not really).
Yeah, I don't expect Dombrowski to reasonably attach his name to what is about to be expected to happen this off-season, because in a win now mode, it isn't what you expect to be done (the Mookie Betts' trade). Plain and simple.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 9, 2019 2:16:05 GMT -5
Dombrowski did the job right. He won it all and even prior to that he won games often. This feels a bit harsh, but the team is probably looking at a minor rebuild and maybe DD just wasn't the guy for that task. I feel like he was brought in to do one thing and he did that thing which in turn made him expendable. Tough, but it is what it is. This is definitely a wait and see. He was brought in to maximize the roster with the prospects of Mookie, JBJ, Devers, Benintendi, Xander, and company. HE SERVED HIS PURPOSE HERE. I think this was more of a mutual decision myself. Why would Dave Dombrowski attach himself to the future rebuild of the Red Sox when he can get out while he could attach himself as the label as a winner and a maximizer of talent?!!!
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 9, 2019 2:29:43 GMT -5
ill Koch @billkoch25 · 3h Mookie Betts on Dave Dombrowski and how this affects future contract discussions -- 'This is proof that this is a business. Like I said, I love it here. But this is still a business.' #RedSox
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 9, 2019 2:30:13 GMT -5
Either disagree or ignore it. They're passionate Red Sox fans who care alot about the team. Yes, this site is all about intelligent conversation, but there are going to be emotions involved. In baseball, particularly in that thread it will happen. I remember when Joe Morgan used to say that his team didn't play any more dead-ass than usual. Does that mean that he didn't really think his team hustled and was just mailing it in? Doubtful, but he was aggravated and that's how it came out. This year has been frustrating as hell. 2019 should have been a season where they win around 95, make the playoffs, and take their chances. Instead nothing has gone right this year and frankly it hasn't been enjoyable and there are a lot of hard questions surrounding this team going forward. Like you, I really don't blame Dombrowski. Some of the thing could have been forecast. I mean is it shocking that Sale and Eovaldi were health risks or even that Pearce was a veteran with an injury history (Pedro did call that one)? No, not really, but taken the gambles he did was reasonable or at least I thought so and if I had his job, I might be on the unemployment line. If that's really the reason he was fired. I suspect it was a smaller reason and that there's a lot more which will come out because secrets like that don't survive in Boston. I mean if CHB sensed what was going on, it's out there....so we will find out what lead to this. Well they're calling the team bums or incompetent for not hitting well, so sorry, I'm not ignoring it. They're god damn morons for calling people stupid for this shit. I can forgive pedro because he's a millennial who doesn't know any better, but soxfan is our age and he still is dumb about it despite supposedly going through all the heartbreaks we all did again and again 100 times. Lol. Here's the thing, I was a fan late of the late 1990's of the Sox. PEDROFANFOREVER. I remember the curse. I still think the way I do before and after. I'm not a labeled millennial. I was born before that ERA and was blaming John Henry before all this even happened. John Henry is like clockwork, dude. You can predict what he does with the budget. You can see what's coming before and after. Mookie is gone. See the Nomar Garciaparra days and Manny Ramirez days. Yeah, you argue against it, I just saw it like like a clear blue sky day. You know what? Bring on the forward thinking and creative thinking of the future GM of the Sox. Whether it's Romero or whoever. I don't care. Give me someone who thinks progressivesly and thinks of value moving forward. Welcome to the Eddie Romero ERA, I welcome it, personally. LET'S F-ING GO!!!
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Post by SALNotes on Sept 9, 2019 2:45:18 GMT -5
It still irks me about Dombrowski not being able to build a farm. A. He built a beautiful system that led to Miami's 2nd WS when he was out the door. B. In Detroit the fucking owner was dying and demanded he win at all cost. Why would he care if prospect x would be awesome 10 years from now when he had only a few years of life left? He wanted to see a ring. Sadly, he didn't, but came very close a few times. C. The Red Sox gave him the same edict and this time, he delivered. You can't tell someone to win at all costs and then wonder why the farm is bad. That's talking out of both sides of your mouth. He has helped pick the farm back up. The farm is better this year. Most of his deals were wins anyways. Does anyone miss Espinosa (I have my problem with that deal, but it's still a win)? Does anyone miss Margot? Does anyone miss Basabe? Does anyone miss Dubon? Does anyone really miss Moncada (.815 OPS in 2nd half) or Kopech? He seemed to weed out the system correctly because it looks like the Red Sox might have had a farm full of over evaluated talent that is simply mediocre to bad. He hasn't been given the chance TO build a farm. I agree with most of this, I will say though I'm still bitter over the Anderson Espinoza trade. To me it's the equivalent of the Padres last year saying give me your #4 SP and here's Mackenzie Gore. Just because he blew his elbow out twice doesn't justify the value. He's was a universal top 25 prospect with #2 starter upside or more. To be fair, I also didn't care for the Kimbrell trade and was pro Margot in the Margot-Benny debate. And he still has seen a pitch he didn't like. But outside of Espi there wasn't anything too egregious IMO. And he certainty won more than he lost.
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 9, 2019 2:48:23 GMT -5
ill Koch @billkoch25 · 3h Mookie Betts on Dave Dombrowski and how this affects future contract discussions -- 'This is proof that this is a business. Like I said, I love it here. But this is still a business.' #RedSox LOL. HERE IT COMES PEOPLE. The John Henry "I don't want to pay the premium" exuse/thing. No one wants to join me on the bandwagon. Whatever. I got roasted all year on here. Whatever. I'm just a garbage poster. Whatever. HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF!!!! DON'T FORGET HISTORY, FOLKS!!!! DON'T FORGET WHAT HAPPENED TO MANNY RAMIREZ AND NOMAR!!! Like clockwork, John Henry. You cheap, billionaire. Sorry. Call it like I see it. It is what it is. Does anyone see it the way I do at least now? Yeah, probably not. Whatever.
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Post by doctorduck21 on Sept 9, 2019 2:56:56 GMT -5
We'll see how all this shakes out but I really don't like how reactionary this ownership group is. As soon as something goes wrong, they have to fire someone. This helps leads into the problems building the roster we've run into. There's no long term plan because the person in charge is never here long term. Maybe it's someone next to rebuild the farm until they don't win the division and they get fired
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Sept 9, 2019 4:17:41 GMT -5
LOL. Me and my mother knew Mookie Betts wasn't going to get resigned. Conflict of interests is at stake here. That's why Dombrowski got fired or whatever. My bottom line theory, but no one believes Pedrofan. Whatever, man. That's all I got to say. EXPECT MOOKIE TO GET TRADED. I've been arguing it ad nauseam on this forum and now it's happening (due to organizational direction/GM change/not wanting to pay bottom dollar). Surprised. Shocked. Whatever. (Not really). Yeah, I don't expect Dombrowski to reasonably attach his name to what is about to be expected to happen this off-season, because in a win now mode, it isn't what you expect to be done (the Mookie Betts' trade). Plain and simple. This really does need a bump. This is exactly what's happening here. It's not complicated. It is what it is. Don't make it complicated. Just tell yourself this and every little thing, will be alright. Good luck to Dave Dombrowski. The ultimate maximizer. He built the best Red Sox roster ever. It was time to move past that kind of thinking, though. Still, nothing but good things to say about that dude. Hope he gets another gig somewhere else doing the same exact thing. If anyone thinks I'm being a fraud, check out this post earlier from me- "Dombrowski has done what he was brought here to do since he got here, maximize with the current core of young players Ben Cherrington elected to keep. It worked. He was flawless last year with every move. How can a roster be maximized more than 2018? In essence, his purpose has been served. Moving forward, I do think the direction of maximizing this roster (the thing he's most commonly known for while GMing), would be a mistake. This team has now multiple positions to fill. The starting rotation is a major uncertainty moving forward and has one spot open (plus they need starting pitching depth). The bullpen needs like 2 key additions. 2nd base could be a problem. First base could be a problem. You have 2 outfielders up for contract soon, and it's highly questionable at best that they keep either one of them long-term. GMing for the Sox is going to be hard, like really difficult moving forward. The Sox have multiple holes to fill and you probably need to get creative to fill them. Dombrowski in his time as a GM in the Sox has been "see guy, go get guy." No creativity there. Maybe he could shock me and flip it around and be that guy, but I have my doubts about it, even despite his experience in the league. The Sox are more likely than not are about to enter a reshifting or retooling phase. I don't think Dombrowski would even want to be part of something like that. I could see him leaving once his contract is up and join some other big market team ready to win soon. He does have full control here though, and that's probably the one thing that might keep him from leaving, however." forum.soxprospects.com/thread/5207/dombrowski
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 9, 2019 5:37:45 GMT -5
If we got performances as expected from Sale, Price and Porcello, DD would be considered the second coming of Theo.
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Post by burythehammer on Sept 9, 2019 5:46:21 GMT -5
You mean two of the guys he devoted a massive amount of long-term resources to?
I'd rather have the literal second coming of Theo...
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Sept 9, 2019 5:58:05 GMT -5
1) The use of profanity is not tolerated on this form. A significant number of posts violating this ground rule have been edited or, once I realized how many there were, deleted, and they will continue to be deleted.
2) Posters are also reminded of the ground rules requiring posters to be civil to each other and maintain an intelligent level of posting. At this point, posts violating these basic tenets of the board will be deleted. We understand this was a sudden move that could spark emotional responses, but we're going to be done with that now.
Let's continue this thread with an intelligent discussion of the situation. Off the cuff nonsense is going to be removed. Thank you.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 9, 2019 6:17:03 GMT -5
You mean two of the guys he devoted a massive amount of long-term resources to? I'd rather have the literal second coming of Theo... It's always 20/20 isn't it.
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Post by artfuldodger on Sept 9, 2019 6:30:34 GMT -5
The move is surprising. However, once the move was decided then the timing makes sense as it provides the time to properly evaluate the organization. I liked the idea when DD was hired to bring in someone from outside the organization as a front office consultant. I wonder if they are going to do so and who it would be.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Sept 9, 2019 6:36:39 GMT -5
The move is surprising. However, once the move was decided then the timing makes sense as it provides the time to properly evaluate the organization. I liked the idea when DD was hired to bring in someone from outside the organization as a front office consultant. I wonder if they are going to do so and who it would be. Romero, Hoyer and McLeod seem like likely candidates.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 9, 2019 6:53:40 GMT -5
1) The use of profanity is not tolerated on this form. A significant number of posts violating this ground rule have been edited or, once I realized how many there were, deleted, and they will continue to be deleted. 2) Posters are also reminded of the ground rules requiring posters to be civil to each other and maintain an intelligent level of posting. At this point, posts violating these basic tenets of the board will be deleted. We understand this was a sudden move that could spark emotional responses, but we're going to be done with that now. Let's continue this thread with an intelligent discussion of the situation. Off the cuff nonsense is going to be removed. Thank you. Apologies, I know I was guilty of it. Once I started seeing it slung around so casually I assumed it was acceptable.
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