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MLB Division Series Gameday Thread
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Post by manfred on Oct 9, 2019 23:56:17 GMT -5
You gotta feel for Kershaw at this point. His inability to be effective in the post-season is a major contributor to why the Dodgers have been unable to win a World Series during this stretch. I think that Moneyball and stuff like fangraphs or even firejoemorgan got us a bit too paranoid on labeling someone as clutch or unclutch since that would make us sound like antiquated old timers. At this point it's at least fair to question if Kershaw can ever get over that hump and if can't, should that be taken against him when people decide whether or not he was the best pitcher of his generation? I would say for all his greatness, he’s been surpassed by Scherzer and Verlander, maybe more. And his postseason is a huge part of that.
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kevfc89
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Post by kevfc89 on Oct 10, 2019 0:01:02 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 10, 2019 0:06:58 GMT -5
So the Dodgers' biggest issue heading into the playoffs was how ineffective Jansen had been, right? So I dunno, I get that he wasn't the guy in the highest-leverage situations. But, man, Joe Kelly. I love Dave Roberts, obviously. But man, it's gonna be tough for LA to bring him back, right? That was a Grady Little moment.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 10, 2019 0:13:32 GMT -5
Geez, the Dodgers got the full Joe Kelly Jekyl and Hyde routine.
He dominated in the 9th inning. The hitters couldn't even catch up to him.
His pitch count was low so even though I don't really agree with it, I could understand him starting the inning, but when he lost Eaton it was time to get Jansen into the game.
It's a shame Kershaw was so awful. As was pointed out, he's a big reason why the Dodgers have failed to win the Series this decade. He's a HOFer, and his regular season contributions give the Dodgers a chance to win it all, but he's been so bad it has really sabotaged their chances at total glory.
The thing is I still thought the Dodgers would win in the 9th. Hudson was giving up hard contact. Off the bat, I thought that ball by Will Smith was gone in the 9th. Would have made Joe Kelly the winning pitcher.
Instead, Kelly imploded and was allowed to fully implode by Roberts. Damn shame that the Dodgers keep letting these opportunities slip on by.
Now if Houston loses Thursday I don't see anybody capable of knocking off the damn Yankees. I thought that at least the Dodgers might have some chance, although their bullpen is hardly trustworthy - if it had been we wouldn't have seen Kershaw.
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Post by orion09 on Oct 10, 2019 0:17:43 GMT -5
Help us AJ Hinch. You're our only hope.
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kevfc89
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Post by kevfc89 on Oct 10, 2019 0:20:24 GMT -5
Geez, the Dodgers got the full Joe Kelly Jekyl and Hyde routine. He dominated in the 9th inning. The hitters couldn't even catch up to him. His pitch count was low so even though I don't really agree with it, I could understand him starting the inning, but when he lost Eaton it was time to get Jansen into the game. It's a shame Kershaw was so awful. As was pointed out, he's a big reason why the Dodgers have failed to win the Series this decade. He's a HOFer, and his regular season contributions give the Dodgers a chance to win it all, but he's been so bad it has really sabotaged their chances at total glory. The thing is I still thought the Dodgers would win in the 9th. Hudson was giving up hard contact. Off the bat, I thought that ball by Will Smith was gone in the 9th. Would have made Joe Kelly the winning pitcher. Instead, Kelly imploded and was allowed to fully implode by Roberts. Damn shame that the Dodgers keep letting these opportunities slip on by. Now if Houston loses Thursday I don't see anybody capable of knocking off the damn Yankees. I thought that at least the Dodgers might have some chance, although their bullpen is hardly trustworthy - if it had been we wouldn't have seen Kershaw. Maeda was filthy after Kershaw gave it up in the 8th, striking out the next three batters. I get the Dodgers have a few question marks in the bullpen, but if you keep it simple with Maeda in the 8th and Jansen in the 9th you probably win. Once the lead was lost, you definitely have to get Jansen or Kolarek (who's been handling Soto all series) or someone else in there at some point; like, right after the leadoff walk. Instead, they intentionally walked Soto only to leave Kelly in the game to face Kendrick, and beyond.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 10, 2019 0:30:33 GMT -5
Joe friggin' Kelly. I could hear the Boston screams from all the way out here on the West Coast... "Don't do it Dave, don't leave him in". Or maybe that was all in my own head!
Between last year's playoffs and this year's, it looks as if all of Kelly's good karma has been sucked out of that lanky body.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 10, 2019 0:37:22 GMT -5
Geez, the Dodgers got the full Joe Kelly Jekyl and Hyde routine. He dominated in the 9th inning. The hitters couldn't even catch up to him. His pitch count was low so even though I don't really agree with it, I could understand him starting the inning, but when he lost Eaton it was time to get Jansen into the game. It's a shame Kershaw was so awful. As was pointed out, he's a big reason why the Dodgers have failed to win the Series this decade. He's a HOFer, and his regular season contributions give the Dodgers a chance to win it all, but he's been so bad it has really sabotaged their chances at total glory. The thing is I still thought the Dodgers would win in the 9th. Hudson was giving up hard contact. Off the bat, I thought that ball by Will Smith was gone in the 9th. Would have made Joe Kelly the winning pitcher. Instead, Kelly imploded and was allowed to fully implode by Roberts. Damn shame that the Dodgers keep letting these opportunities slip on by. Now if Houston loses Thursday I don't see anybody capable of knocking off the damn Yankees. I thought that at least the Dodgers might have some chance, although their bullpen is hardly trustworthy - if it had been we wouldn't have seen Kershaw. Maeda was filthy after Kershaw gave it up in the 8th, striking out the next three batters. I get the Dodgers have a few question marks in the bullpen, but if you keep it simple with Maeda in the 8th and Jansen in the 9th you probably win. Once the lead was lost, you definitely have to get Jansen or Kolarek (who's been handling Soto all series) or someone else in there at some point; like, right after the leadoff walk. Instead, they intentionally walked Soto only to leave Kelly in the game to face Kendrick, and beyond. I know one thing. Soto is not a guy that I'd want to face with the season on the line. That kid is a beast. I can only imagine what he turns into. Right now I like him better as an offensive player than Acuna. I think in time this keeps takes from Trout the honor of being the best hitter/offensive player in the game. Scary to think what this kid will be like at 27.
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Post by stevedillard on Oct 10, 2019 6:20:30 GMT -5
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Post by jdb on Oct 10, 2019 6:39:02 GMT -5
I was watching highlights this morning while getting the kids ready and I swear I heard Harold Reynolds say the Cardinals bunting the second batter of the game set the tone and the reason they see 10. Paraphrasing here but he said the players felt it was game on bc they think they only need one run.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 10, 2019 7:34:53 GMT -5
Maeda was filthy after Kershaw gave it up in the 8th, striking out the next three batters. I get the Dodgers have a few question marks in the bullpen, but if you keep it simple with Maeda in the 8th and Jansen in the 9th you probably win. Once the lead was lost, you definitely have to get Jansen or Kolarek (who's been handling Soto all series) or someone else in there at some point; like, right after the leadoff walk. Instead, they intentionally walked Soto only to leave Kelly in the game to face Kendrick, and beyond. Ross Strippling pitched an inning in this series. Using Kershaw in that spot... I get wanting your best guy out there, but given Kershaw's playoff baggage, that he's getting older, he's been injured, his stuff is diminished... you're not putting your best guy on the mound, you're putting your guy with the best Baseball Reference page on the mound. It's almost the old Theo bit about not paying for past performance. Roberts wasn't paying for past performance but he was managing to it.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 10, 2019 7:40:38 GMT -5
Jealous you have the choice. I'm out of international money, but I'm considering trying to game the system and risking two years of IFA classes in order to bring Top-30 guys Simon Muzziotti and Albert Guaimaro into the fold. Don't wanna crush Gimenez though, I'd probably rank him second or third in Boston's system right now. ----- I still can't believe Roberts would bring Kelly back out for a second inning of work, see him give up an ugly walk and a rip of a double that should've given the Nats the lead, and then have him stay in the game. I can see trying to squeeze a second inning out of Kelly there (that's a lie, I can't see that at all), but it's kinda unforgivable to leave him in at that point, in that situation.
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Post by stevedillard on Oct 10, 2019 8:15:32 GMT -5
I see something like yesterday and choose to marvel at how we caught lightning in a bottle last year doing exactly what Roberts did -- Joe Kelly becoming dominant, and using starters like Sale and Porcello in relief.
Much like the Leskanic
and Wakefield inning in 2004
or even using Foulke on fumes
were survived. If not, the manager gets killed for obvious bad choices.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 10, 2019 8:17:53 GMT -5
I doubt he has the bat of Soto, who is only, what 21? This kid has plate discipline, a good hit tool that's improving, and great power. He's putting up ridiculous numbers in the majors at a very young age. Giminez doesn't have his power, according to that report and isn't in the majors raking like Soto is. I really think Soto will become the best offensive player in the game. I didn't say he'll be the best all around player in the game. My guess is that eventually falls to Acuna once Trout gets into his 30s, but Soto I think will be the biggest offensive threat in baseball year in and year out. His potential is limitless. We're talking about a kid, if healthy, could be a threat to top Hank Aaron's career HR record (I still refuse to call it Barry Bonds' career HR record).
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 10, 2019 8:23:25 GMT -5
I see something like yesterday and choose to marvel at how we caught lightning in a bottle last year doing exactly what Roberts did -- Joe Kelly becoming dominant, and using starters like Sale and Porcello in relief. Much like the Leskanic and Wakefield inning in 2004 or even using Foulke on fumes were survived. If not, the manager gets killed for obvious bad choices. Last year Cora took a chance with giving Kelly a 2nd inning, in pivotal Game 4 of the World Series. Kelly had breezed thru the 7th after the Sox had cut the deficit from 4-0 to 4-3 on Moreland's HR. Then after Pearce tied the game in the 8th, Cora went with Kelly in the 8th...and got away with it. Kelly gave up a leadoff single, and a 2 out single and there were runners at the corners. Fortunately Yasmani Grandal was having a terrible World Series and he struck out to end the threat and the Sox made Kelly the winner after scoring 5 runs in the 9th. Yesterday Kelly was in line to win the game for the Dodgers after he dominated the 9th inning. I thought Will Smith's shot was gone. But instead Kelly came out for the 10th and his stuff wasn't as sharp. When he walked Eaton, I was thinking, uh-oh...they better get him now. Normally you don't go with Kelly for more than an inning but he dominated the 9th and only threw 10 pitches. He had his command and then suddenly in the 10th it went poof. Jansen should have been brought on to face Rendon. And yes 2004 was a miracle. Curtis Leskanic was literally on his last legs. Fortunately the key spot was facing Bernie Williams, who was toward the end of his effectiveness and Leskanic got him on a fly to Damon. Wakefield in Game 5 was so scary. His stuff was great, but Manny botched a ball in the 12th and Tek and Wake combined for 3 passed balls. Thankfully nobody scored. Ultimately when it's your year, it's your year and you get the unexpected step-ups by players you wouldn't expect it from, like Joe Kelly in the post-season last year.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 10, 2019 8:26:52 GMT -5
Playoff Joe Kelly is quite capable of being a beast. He dominated the 9th inning in decisive Game 5. That was the Joe Kelly the Sox had in the playoffs last year. His stuff was nasty. This comment aged well. lol
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 10, 2019 10:11:57 GMT -5
Playoff Joe Kelly is quite capable of being a beast. He dominated the 9th inning in decisive Game 5. That was the Joe Kelly the Sox had in the playoffs last year. His stuff was nasty. This comment aged well. lol Well, it was accurate for that inning. hah. I really thought the Dodgers were going to walk it off in the 9th inning. Hudson was getting hit hard. I thought that shot Will Smith hit was gone. Hudson had given up a line drive single, a shot to the wall, and a hard line-out to LF. Then Kelly came back out...and when he walks batters, you know it's going to get ugly. It's crazy. I have a friend who's a Dodgers fan, has been since the end of their Brooklyn days, and early on in the season, he was like, "Take back Joe Kelly. Please. I don't want him!!!" I told him to calm down. He'll get the full Joe Kelly experience. He'll see Jekyll and Hyde and that he'd settle in after a rough start to the season and drive you nuts doing so. And I told him Kelly would be nails in the post-season and I told him that Kelly was dominant in the 9th inning - and he totally was. 2 overpowering strikeouts where his curveball command was spot on and a weak fly out to RF. I never anticipated a 10th inning at that point. Of course when the Dodgers lost, I got a message from him, "F**ng Joe Kelly!!" I feel bad for him. I jinxed Joe Kelly and the Dodgers last night. Feel kind of bad for that. I really did hope that guys like Vin Scully, Tommy LaSorda, Sandy Koufax, and my friend could enjoy the ultimate Dodgers victory finally. 1988 was quite awhile ago. And I get this weird vibe that when your team uses us all of its good karma, that the wait for the next time could be lengthy. I mean the Mets did everything right in 86. Everything went their way, including the miraculous finish to the Series, but I never thought they'd still be looking. I still can't figure out how the 88 Dodgers did it, and apparently neither can they. And I worry that the Sox spent all their amazing karma in 2018 - I mean 2019 had to be a makeup for that? Right? I don't mind a 1 season makeup. I'd just hate having to wait another 30 plus years!
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 10, 2019 10:39:52 GMT -5
I fell asleep after the 2 Kershaw home runs. Only playoff baseball I've missed so far other than the game overlaps.
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Post by trajanacc on Oct 10, 2019 11:09:16 GMT -5
I am sure they know better than me, but I really do wonder if the MLB is maximizing its viewership/advertising revenue by having these games start so late. Tough when you have so many memorable postseason moments happening after midnight EST, when presumably well over half the potential viewership is asleep or would normally be.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 10, 2019 11:20:00 GMT -5
The game was in LA though, so it was only 9:00 local time. Not super-convenient for Nats fans, but they probably do better having games that stretch to midnight than they do with games that start while people are at work - gonna guess the Dodgers game did better numbers than Cards-Braves. And a big reason the games take so long is because they're soaking up so much advertising revenue with the longer breaks between innings.
The games take frustratingly long in general, I agree with that. Though last night's felt like it had a good pace because the late innings were wild and there weren't a ton of mid-inning pitching changes.
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Post by trajanacc on Oct 10, 2019 12:01:24 GMT -5
Something like 80% of TV viewers are in the eastern or central time zones. So even if there's a lot of LA fans watching, there's also a lot of people, including Nats fans, who are asleep.
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Post by manfred on Oct 10, 2019 12:09:26 GMT -5
If the Astros lose, I worry this will turn into the worst season ever, as the Yankees cruise to a title largely unopposed.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Oct 10, 2019 13:20:47 GMT -5
At least with the Nationals in and the Dodgers out I actually have a team remaining that I would be ok winning the World Series. I guess I'd be ok with Houston again if it means that the Yankees and Rays both miss out. I was afraid that I was going to have to choose between LA/STL and TB/NYY. And lol Joe Kelly. Looks like he beat the Dodgers in the playoffs two years in a row.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 10, 2019 16:01:22 GMT -5
I think it's a great story for the Rays to win. They're clearly the underdogs. I also think it would be comical to see how few people turn out to celebrate their championship or if there are any empty seats during the WS. I'm chaotic.
I don't trust the Rays beating NY which is why I'm rooting for Astros.
I would love to see the Nationals get a ring. I truly feel like Max Scherzer is a guy who really deserves a ring and I just so badly want to see that media news cycle of how the Nationals finally broke out and won after Harper left the team.
At least with the Red Sox cutting payroll and raising ticket prices, seeing NY win a ring on top of that will put the Red Sox FO into an incredibly difficult position.
I think the Cardinals winning might actually be my least favorite outcome. Just a purely boring team that I don't like to begin with.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 10, 2019 16:21:36 GMT -5
If the Yankees win by beating Minnesota, Tampa and either St. Louis or Washington, it will be the complete opposite of how the Red Sox beat the best team they could possibly face in each round last season.
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