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Post by p23w on Oct 21, 2019 21:04:59 GMT -5
Given the Yankees ability to spend and what they had long-term on the payroll for starters last off season it seems crazy to say you can't sign Corbin, because you want Cole. They have Tanaka for two more years at 22 and 23 million. Plus Happ who they signed over Corbin at 17 million. The true Yankees I grew up watching would have signed both and had a guy like Paxton and Tanaka as 4th starters. They have had so many chances to add starters and really haven't. They could have traded for Stroman if they wanted a cost controlled guy. I love watching the Yankees pinch pennies and not trade for guys year after year. The fact that some projections show the Astros might start spending as much as the Yankees is crazy. Just wait. Yankee's big rotation acquisition will be Zack Wheeler. God I hope not. If they do we may have to hope the law of averages comes into play with their offense next year. Problem is that it could be even better. Think is with their payroll, market fan base, and back to back 100 win seasons with nary even an appearance in the ALCS it could be that the 3rd time is the charm. I for one hope something bites them in the arse. It's been their starting pitching the past two years. We shall have to see how the game plays out for next year.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 22, 2019 4:56:42 GMT -5
The Yankee mystique is deep for a team with one World Series this millennium.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 22, 2019 6:34:41 GMT -5
The Yankee mystique is deep for a team with one World Series this millennium. Depends where you count 2000, if you consider that the previous millennium or this one. Either way that 4 out of 5 dynasty (almost 5 out of 6) is still in my memory. They are a franchise who won 57% of their games last century and continue to win 57% of their games this century. They even lead the majors this decade with a winning pct of .569, and this decade is a dismal failure for them. You don't get too many down years from that team. They don't have 75-87 seasons anymore. What has happened to them is a lot more layers of playoffs (it's hard to continually win 3 levels of playoffs) and some of their awesome 1990s (and before) karma debt being paid off more often these days. With the Red Sox, the playoff karma has finally (after 86 years) gone the other way, to our delight - basically when the Sox have gotten to the playoffs, they've gotten on tears that have got them World Series trophies instead of painful Game 7 losses (or 13 game losing streaks like they had 1986 - 1998). So basically the Yankees are a threat every damn year just about, so that hasn't changed. It's just that they have finally struggled in the multi-tiered playoff system finally. Sooner or later with them knocking on the door just about every year we're going to have a Yankee World Champion year, although I hope that takes them 86 years - serves them right. lol
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 22, 2019 7:40:56 GMT -5
The vast majority of dominance the Yankees had came before free agency began, when they were able to stash half the league's talent on their reserve roster. I wonder how many very good players virtually never played in MLB because of it.
20 of their 27 championships were won before free agency started in 1976.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 22, 2019 7:51:53 GMT -5
The vast majority of dominance the Yankees had came before free agency began, when they were able to stash half the league's talent on their reserve roster. I wonder how many very good players virtually never played in MLB because of it. 20 of their 27 championships were won before free agency started in 1976. In the 1920s they took the Red Sox championship teams of the 1910s. In the 1950s-1960s they turned the KC A's into their farm system (the Red Sox pillaged the Philly A's in the 1930s and the St. Louis Browns in the late 40s). The leveler was the draft where the Yankees had to wait their turn to acquire talent. That, plus terrible ownership by CBS in the mid to late 1960s. But then Steinbrenner bought the team and used his money for the newly minted free agency in the 1970s to turn things back into an advantage for NY - until he used it foolishly in the 1980s - and despite having (I think) the best record of the 1980s, came up empty-handed. Unfortunately he was suspended and Gene Michael built up the Yankees in his absence after they lost their war with the treadmill in the late 80s and staggered into the first few years of the 1990s and they used their financial clout again in the second half of the 90s and first decade of this century to go along with their solid core they developed and maintained in the 1990s. But the great equalizer this time is that you have to go through three rounds of playoffs to win, which is much harder than the days of winning your pennant in an 8 team league or even winning 1 playoff round against the KC Royals. Having to win 3 rounds is a lot tougher with more chances for an upset or bad series. The Yankees bucked that trend very well in the 1990s, but now the odds have been evening out a bit, plus under Steinbrenner's kids they haven't been as willing to spend at times to get what they need, which in this case is an ace, although I do think finally they will get one. They'd be foolish not to. 7 championships since free agency is actually a pretty good track record. I don't think any other team has matched that. I know the Red Sox have 4 during this time and the Cards and Giants have 3 during this time, and there are a bunch of teams with 2.
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Post by soxcentral on Oct 22, 2019 7:53:00 GMT -5
The vast majority of dominance the Yankees had came before free agency began, when they were able to stash half the league's talent on their reserve roster. I wonder how many very good players virtually never played in MLB because of it. 20 of their 27 championships were won before free agency started in 1976. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? Those 7 championships are the most anyone has won since free agency began. Boston (!!!) and St Louis are next with 4. Until someone catches them they're still the dominant franchise post-FA, too.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 22, 2019 7:55:20 GMT -5
The vast majority of dominance the Yankees had came before free agency began, when they were able to stash half the league's talent on their reserve roster. I wonder how many very good players virtually never played in MLB because of it. 20 of their 27 championships were won before free agency started in 1976. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? Those 7 championships are the most anyone has won since free agency began. Boston (!!!) and St Louis are next with 4. Until someone catches them they're still the dominant franchise post-FA, too. You just made my point, too, although I think it's 3 for St. Louis. They won in 1982, 2006, and 2011. Don Denkinger robbed them of their 1985 World Championship (KC won), and they lost to Minnesota in 1987 and Boston in 2004 & 2013.
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Post by soxcentral on Oct 22, 2019 7:57:29 GMT -5
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? Those 7 championships are the most anyone has won since free agency began. Boston (!!!) and St Louis are next with 4. Until someone catches them they're still the dominant franchise post-FA, too. You just made my point, too, although I think it's 3 for St. Louis. They won in 1982, 2006, and 2011. Don Denkinger robbed them of their 1985 World Championship (KC won), and they lost to Minnesota in 1987 and Boston in 2004 & 2013. Right, thanks! I had it it my head they won in '85, if they had instant replay back then maybe they would have.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 22, 2019 8:23:06 GMT -5
"They would have won with Corbin" = speculation. "We can't say for sure if they would have won with Corbin" = statement of fact, not speculative. If people want to think that Cashman is actually a bad GM who's teams are somehow always fatally flawed despite winning a zillion games, and not just a real good GM who hasn't won in a while, well... I guess whatever helps you sleep at night. Another swing and miss. Corbin speculation is based on shrewd GM decision making. WITH Corbin, the Nationals won the NLCS. Without Corbin the Yankee bullpen was overused. Cashman could have had Corbin, wherein the speculation lies. Speculation now rests with how Martinez uses Corbin (the Astros' crush LHPSP) They also faced the Cardinals. Different team, different series, doesn't matter, proves nothing. Moving on.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 22, 2019 8:28:45 GMT -5
Corbin allowed 80% of the runs the Cardinals scored in the series, what a bust.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 22, 2019 12:53:17 GMT -5
The vast majority of dominance the Yankees had came before free agency began, when they were able to stash half the league's talent on their reserve roster. I wonder how many very good players virtually never played in MLB because of it. 20 of their 27 championships were won before free agency started in 1976. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? Those 7 championships are the most anyone has won since free agency began. Boston (!!!) and St Louis are next with 4. Until someone catches them they're still the dominant franchise post-FA, too. But they aren't nearly as dominant as they were. It goes from 27 championships to 11 (Cardinals) to 9 (Red Sox and A's) for all-time championships. Most of their dominance was when they had a ridiculous advantage over the entire league. In a lot of recent years (before George died), they spent 80% more than the team with the 2nd highest payroll.
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Post by Gwell55 on Oct 22, 2019 12:58:51 GMT -5
The vast majority of dominance the Yankees had came before free agency began, when they were able to stash half the league's talent on their reserve roster. I wonder how many very good players virtually never played in MLB because of it. 20 of their 27 championships were won before free agency started in 1976. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? Those 7 championships are the most anyone has won since free agency began. Boston (!!!) and St Louis are next with 4. Until someone catches them they're still the dominant franchise post-FA, too. How many since George died? Money always talked for George not so much since the boys took control.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 22, 2019 13:18:46 GMT -5
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? Those 7 championships are the most anyone has won since free agency began. Boston (!!!) and St Louis are next with 4. Until someone catches them they're still the dominant franchise post-FA, too. How many since George died? Money always talked for George not so much since the boys took control. ZERO They are just like any other large market team now without the willingness to expand their payroll past the luxury threshold.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 22, 2019 14:15:18 GMT -5
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make here? Those 7 championships are the most anyone has won since free agency began. Boston (!!!) and St Louis are next with 4. Until someone catches them they're still the dominant franchise post-FA, too. But they aren't nearly as dominant as they were. It goes from 27 championships to 11 (Cardinals) to 9 (Red Sox and A's) for all-time championships. Most of their dominance was when they had a ridiculous advantage over the entire league. In a lot of recent years (before George died), they spent 80% more than the team with the 2nd highest payroll. They're just as good as they've always been when it comes to winning games - 57%. The difference is that they no longer have that 50-50 chance they had before when they'd win the pennant and proceed directly to the World Series. Now they have roughly a 12.5% chance based on the extra layer of playoffs. THAT is the difference as to why they don't win - what was it - 20 championships in a 40 year stretch from 1923 - 1962? In the 2 division setup they only won twice - in 25 years, but that was more George's mismanagement in the 80s. They've won 5 times in the 25 years of 3 layered playoffs, which is just ahead of the Red Sox and then the Giants. They've been in the playoffs 22 times in the 25 years of the 3 layered playoffs - they didn't make the playoffs in 2008, 2013 and 2014 - did I miss another year? You're not going to win as high a pct in that scenario as you would in the olden days, but you give yourself enough chances, you'll most likely win the most often.
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Post by soxjim on Oct 23, 2019 1:13:45 GMT -5
Cashman is one helluva GM. With that said -- I'm sure a goal of his team was to win it all. They didn't do it. He's the one that was a big part in building the team. His team had a weakness in starting pitching which may have been the reason why the Astros got to them. I realize it's all arguable.
I live closer to New York and have many friends and family that are Yanks fans along with I hear a lot of TV or radio of Yanks stuff. Many felt the biggest issue was starting pitching since day one. And while I hate the Yanks - I felt the same way as many not only because I'm a Yanks hater but I'm a strong believer in starting pitching -- and to use those starters when you can for bullpen playoffs. Further, I heard Teixera explain before FA started last year that he explained why he thought the Yanks should go after Corbin. I know when the Yanks signed Happ and didn't get Corbin I was damn glad they went for Happ. OFC there are no guarantees but for those of us that for example thought they should've gone after Corbin or just gotten something better than Happ in a trade - why wouldn't we criticize Cashman after-the-fact? The point is - not so much Corbin- but the fact Cashman didn't address starting pitching enough. You could argue you didn't think it was starting pitching that did them in-- but I think you'd be wrong if you believe that.
Just as I beleive many from NY are still wrong. From what I heard on NY radio was that the game was changing and that the future was that starters only going 4 innings and the way to win championships was build a bullpen in the way the Yanks were doing. This is a type of nonsense that I've had to hear from NY. This is why I made the comment immediately after Yanks lost about "the greatest bullpen ever going down" and have scoffed at preseason comments from sites like Fangraphs making mention of hyping the Yanks as the greatest bullpen of all-time crap. It's why I brought up the story last year of the sports editor from my hometown suggesting the Red sox had little chance in 2018 as a comparison vs the Yanks because of the Yanks "super bullpen." IMO those of us that don't believe the game is changing (in terms of starting pitching can't go/ won't go 6+ innings for the futures) and believed the Yanks should've added another better starter at least better than "Happ" (or CC etc) if not more-- we were right. And this is on how Cashman built the team. It doesn't mean he is not a helluva GM. It's more of -- I'm damn glad he chose to build his team this way and spend a bit more. I hate the Yanks and I hate the Dodgers. Other than the Sox winning, as long as the Yanks and Dodgers don't win the World Series-- I'm damn happy. I'm damn happy they might not go after some big name stars that may end up biting them in the ass later on. Keep it up!
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