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2019 World Series Gameday Thread
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 31, 2019 8:25:55 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 31, 2019 8:33:41 GMT -5
Aren't these guys supposed to be smart or something?
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 31, 2019 8:49:42 GMT -5
Aren't these guys supposed to be smart or something? It was a bold strategy.
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Post by telson13 on Oct 31, 2019 9:00:45 GMT -5
As much as I like a lot of the ‘Stros players outside of Bregman (who’s really just kind of annoying) and Osuna, but their organizational culture is nauseating so F them. They managed to follow up a detestable trade with far more detestable behavior. I feel badly for a lot of the field personnel, because I respect guys like JV, Cole, Springer, Altuve...but I hope that organization folds for a while and the players have luck elsewhere. Luhnow’s lack of accountability on the latest showing was...enlightening. Yuck. The Nats provided quite a contrast, and I’m ecstatic they finally got there. Forgot to mention - also making the Nationals more likable - they won it as soon as Bryce Harper was gone. Karma was quite kind in the post-season! It’s funny...I don’t have all that much of an issue with Harper, but I do like that the Nats held their ground on overpaying the guy. They made a very reasonable offer given his “1 great year” career, more than reasonable really, and when they pivoted, they made a pretty smart move with Corbin. How that contract ultimately plays out is uncertain, but he was very good this year, and that deal is likely to be a (much?) better one overall than Harper’s. I also strongly argued for the Sox getting Scherzer over Lester, because 1) Scherzer was a true ace, not a 1a, and 2) Scherzer had a LOT less mileage on his arm, so I’ll admit it’s been vindicating to see Scherzer get (and stay) even better with time...but also to see him rewarded for that work, and the Nats rewarded for trusting him to be who he has been. Rendon doing his thing is fun to see, too...he’s among the best in the business, and dude has ice water in his veins. Overall, I just kinda like the Nats in general because of the players (As a former sprinter, Turner is one of my favorites) and the generally professional approach I see from that organization. Plus, the Expos got screwed in ‘94 (wow, was that ever an incredible team), and as the team that gifted us Pedro over NY (thanks for Armas Jr, guys!), well...I’ve hoped for some good karma for that org for a long time.
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Post by telson13 on Oct 31, 2019 9:03:31 GMT -5
It's also so fitting that the team with a Little League park lost to a 336 foot home run. That one has got to hurt a lot more than normal. It's like the Bucky Dent home run for the Astros. Live by the sword...
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 31, 2019 9:14:47 GMT -5
It’s funny...I don’t have all that much of an issue with Harper, but I do like that the Nats held their ground on overpaying the guy. They made a very reasonable offer given his “1 great year” career, more than reasonable really, and when they pivoted, they made a pretty smart move with Corbin. How that contract ultimately plays out is uncertain, but he was very good this year, and that deal is likely to be a (much?) better one overall than Harper’s. A thing I like about this Nats team is that there's truly no narrative you can attach to them. What's the lesson we're all supposed to learn? This team is built the exact same way that all the disappointing Nats teams of the past five years. The loss of Harper is the one thing you can point to, and I'm sure people are trying to make it A Thing, but if we're being even a tiny bit rational, the only thing it proves is that they happened to have three other good OF options on hand.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 31, 2019 9:20:31 GMT -5
It's also so fitting that the team with a Little League park lost to a 336 foot home run. That one has got to hurt a lot more than normal. It's like the Bucky Dent home run for the Astros. If you hated baseball any more, Fox would ask you to do play-by-play.
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Post by telson13 on Oct 31, 2019 9:20:53 GMT -5
It’s funny...I don’t have all that much of an issue with Harper, but I do like that the Nats held their ground on overpaying the guy. They made a very reasonable offer given his “1 great year” career, more than reasonable really, and when they pivoted, they made a pretty smart move with Corbin. How that contract ultimately plays out is uncertain, but he was very good this year, and that deal is likely to be a (much?) better one overall than Harper’s. A thing I like about this Nats team is that there's truly no narrative you can attach to them. What's the lesson we're all supposed to learn? This team is built the exact same way that all the disappointing Nats teams of the past five years. The loss of Harper is the one thing you can point to, and I'm sure people are trying to make it A Thing, but if we're being even a tiny bit rational, the only thing it proves is that they happened to have three other good OF options on hand. Exactly. If anything, they’re just an object lesson in rational use of resources. With Robles, they didn’t “need” Harper, so they saved $185M and got Corbin instead, getting a huge upgrade for several million less per year than the moderate (soon to be slight or non-) upgrade in OF. It’s a pretty balanced org philosophy-wise, too...lots of former players in scouting/FO. I agree, the lack of some ridiculous narrative is very refreshing.
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Post by maxwellsdemon on Oct 31, 2019 9:26:14 GMT -5
Oct 14, 2019 21:19:51 GMT -4 maxwellsdemon said: Are the much maligned Washington Nationals this year's Team Of Destiny? EYHOBH
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 31, 2019 9:29:24 GMT -5
The only thing that really set the Nats apart is something you can't plot when you team build.
Their ability to come back in games where they were facing imminent elimination was beyond amazing. They showed Rendon's numbers in those late situations and it was almost like you couldn't get him out.
Really, it was just a case of everything breaking their way at the end. Talk about BABIP and all that stuff - the Astros had so much traffic on I wondered if Dave Martinez would let the series slip away because he was too afraid to take out Scherzer and that eventually Scherzer would give up a 2 run double or a 3 run HR and put the game out of reach. The Astros were hitting the ball hard and had like 2 men on every damn inning. They were extremely fortunate to have only given up 2 runs! Talk about bad sequencing, BABIP, whatever...the bottom line is that the Astros did not take advantage of their numerous opportunities.
Then the Nats struck seemingly all at once.
But I am dumbfounded at how Hinch could be so damn rigid as to when to deploy Gerrit Cole!
I get not wanting to use a starter with traffic on base, etc.
But I don't understand not warming him up in the 6th - I get the Greinke is cruising, but if Greinke gets in trouble - say a leadoff walk, I don't think that it has to be a deterrent from using him. Yeah, you don't want to bring him in a ridiculously complicated situation (like bases loaded and no outs), but with a runner on 1st or after a solo HR, the bases aren't too filled. I don't see why you couldn't bring him in.
And if you're going to use a reliever, why wouldn't you use your closer right there then? I mean Osuna would need to get two outs. He is your best reliever, no? That's why he's your closer? I know Harris has pitched well, so maybe there's not a ton of separation between Osuna and Harris other than Osuna has better stuff, but still.
And then when it's 3-2 Washington going into the last of the 7th, you have nine outs to work with for a lineup that had been hitting the ball hard all day. Yes, Corbin was pitching well, but you still have a chance against him as you do Hudson or Doolittle. None of these guys are Mariano Rivera, so to say well, we're down 3-2 so it's too late to use Cole makes no sense.
Hold the deficit at 3-2 and use your last nine outs to see if you can score a run or two. Who's more likely to hold Washington down? Cole or the slew of relievers they blew through?
It made no sense. They could have used him to start the 7th, but ok, makes sense why they didn't. They could have used him in the 8th and 9th and taken their chances with the offense.
I mean, Bob Brenly, with his team down 2-1 in the top of the 9th inning of Game 7 of the 2001 World Series, used Randy Johnson to keep his team close and was rewarded with the victory.
I'd have to think that perhaps Cole's appearance in the game might have fired his guys up a bit and perhaps that might have given them the edge. The team look liked it was going through the motions in the 8th and 9th innings as the deficit worsened.
Hinch is supposed to be a smart guy, but I don't get it. I wonder if bench coach Alex Cora would have convinced him to use Cole!
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Oct 31, 2019 10:22:55 GMT -5
And in an interesting mirror-image bookend to last year's championship, Brantley went down on his knee on the series-ending strikeout, the same way Machado did last year.
I was not an active rooter for either team this series, though I think it is good karma for the Nets to get their first title. But if I were a fan of either team, especially the Nats, I'm not sure how I'd feel about this championship, especially if I had been on hand for the 3 home games where they were beaten like a drum to the tune of 19-3. It would be like my team won on some distant island or something.
The Nets dominated Houston 30-11 in their park and were crushed 19-3 in DC. So much for cheering home town fans making a difference.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 10:48:02 GMT -5
Agree. Why not bring in Cole to start the 8th? Still 6 outs to play with, and maybe Corbin or Hudson crack under the pressure. I don’t understand not bringing in Cole at all. It seemed really narrow-minded on Hinch’s part. But...the right team won, so I’m not complaining.
My wife and I moved to DC in August. We live two blocks from the stadium. I’m bummed the Red Sox didn’t do better, but the Nationals provided a great substitute. I had a lot of fun following this team toward the end of the year and especially the postseason. I’m a Red Sox fan for life, but forever an admirer of this 2019 Nationals squad.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 31, 2019 11:17:04 GMT -5
Congrats to Nats. However, momentum was the clear winner of this series. When teams had it, they won games in a row, when they didn't, they lost games in a row. No clearer picture could emerge.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 31, 2019 11:32:49 GMT -5
Agree. Why not bring in Cole to start the 8th? Still 6 outs to play with, and maybe Corbin or Hudson crack under the pressure. I don’t understand not bringing in Cole at all. It seemed really narrow-minded on Hinch’s part. But...the right team won, so I’m not complaining. Basically any scenario where you use Cole at any point is better than one where you don't. Like why not just use him as an opener? It's not like the first inning of game-frickin-seven is low-leverage garbage time or something.
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Post by ramireja on Oct 31, 2019 11:33:01 GMT -5
Aren't these guys supposed to be smart or something? Ahh yes, the "if we have a lead, I want to minimize the other team's chances of scoring...but if we don't have a lead, let's not worry about the other team scoring anymore" strategy.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 31, 2019 11:40:01 GMT -5
Aren't these guys supposed to be smart or something? Ahh yes, the "if we have a lead, I want to minimize the other team's chances of scoring...but if we don't have a lead, let's not worry about the other team scoring anymore" strategy. So thankful Bob Brenley didn't think the same way during Game 7 of the 2001 World Series when he brought Randy Johnson into the 9th inning down 2-1 giving them a chance to score 2 runs in the last of the 9th against Rivera! I can't help but wonder how the Nats pen would have done had the score been 3-2 heading into the 8th and/or 9th inning. As it was Brantley had a long loud foul ball for strike 2. It didn't miss the foul pole by too much. But of course nobody will remember that because the game had turned into a blowout by then! Such rigid thinking on Hinch's part! I'd be so pissed off if I were a Houston Astros fan.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Oct 31, 2019 12:00:31 GMT -5
I wonder if the Nats would have been able to pull this off if their series with the Cardinals had gone even five games. The question the whole time was could they could get enough innings out of the Strasburg/Scherzer/Corbin trio to cover for the weakness of the rest of their staff, and they just barely did.
Score another one for "momentum".
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 31, 2019 12:34:19 GMT -5
Hudson and Doolittle did a good job. The rest of their pen was scary bad but the guys they were leaning on for high leverage out of the pen did an excellent job.
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Post by incandenza on Oct 31, 2019 13:52:41 GMT -5
Aren't these guys supposed to be smart or something? Ahh yes, the "if we have a lead, I want to minimize the other team's chances of scoring...but if we don't have a lead, let's not worry about the other team scoring anymore" strategy. What gets into managers' heads? It's the last game of the season; there is exactly one question you need to ask yourself: what use of our pitching staff will cause the other team to score as few runs as possible? Probably Gerrit Cole is involved in the answer to that question!
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radiohix
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'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,252
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Post by radiohix on Oct 31, 2019 13:59:23 GMT -5
The whole playoffs this year shows how magical 2018 was for us! Man, it was drama free lol
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 31, 2019 14:42:46 GMT -5
The whole playoffs this year shows how magical 2018 was for us! Man, it was drama free lol You must have missed the parts where Craig Kimbrel pitched.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,252
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Post by radiohix on Oct 31, 2019 15:43:04 GMT -5
The whole playoffs this year shows how magical 2018 was for us! Man, it was drama free lol You must have missed the parts where Craig Kimbrel pitched. Craig who? Never heard of him.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 31, 2019 16:41:41 GMT -5
Ahh yes, the "if we have a lead, I want to minimize the other team's chances of scoring...but if we don't have a lead, let's not worry about the other team scoring anymore" strategy. So thankful Bob Brenley didn't think the same way during Game 7 of the 2001 World Series when he brought Randy Johnson into the 9th inning down 2-1 giving them a chance to score 2 runs in the last of the 9th against Rivera! I can't help but wonder how the Nats pen would have done had the score been 3-2 heading into the 8th and/or 9th inning. As it was Brantley had a long loud foul ball for strike 2. It didn't miss the foul pole by too much. But of course nobody will remember that because the game had turned into a blowout by then! Such rigid thinking on Hinch's part! I'd be so pissed off if I were a Houston Astros fan. I'm still bitter that Clemens wasn't out there to get the last 3 outs of game 6 in 1986. I bet he could have allowed less than 3 runs.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 31, 2019 18:44:07 GMT -5
So thankful Bob Brenley didn't think the same way during Game 7 of the 2001 World Series when he brought Randy Johnson into the 9th inning down 2-1 giving them a chance to score 2 runs in the last of the 9th against Rivera! I can't help but wonder how the Nats pen would have done had the score been 3-2 heading into the 8th and/or 9th inning. As it was Brantley had a long loud foul ball for strike 2. It didn't miss the foul pole by too much. But of course nobody will remember that because the game had turned into a blowout by then! Such rigid thinking on Hinch's part! I'd be so pissed off if I were a Houston Astros fan. I'm still bitter that Clemens wasn't out there to get the last 3 outs of game 6 in 1986. I bet he could have allowed less than 3 runs. You mean Game 7, but your point still stands. McNamara was the ultimate do nothing old school manager but worse. Boyd was supposed to start Game 7, but in the one move that he made that made sense he pitched Hurst as soon as he had that extra day due to the rain out between Game 6 and Game 7. But he didn't communicate with Boyd properly so that Boyd was ready to come out of the pen at the first sign of trouble or use Boyd if he was indeed available as he said he was. Clemens should have been there for at least more than 3 outs. Passing over Boyd (yes I know he was rocked in Game 3) and Clemens in favor of Schiraldi, Stanley, Sambito, Crawford, and Nipper was insane.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 1, 2019 13:32:12 GMT -5
The whole playoffs this year shows how magical 2018 was for us! Man, it was drama free lol They played an 18 inning game that literally screwed me up for like 2 weeks.
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