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Worst large free agent signing ever?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 27, 2019 12:34:52 GMT -5
His "I hold all the cards now" thing after they just won the World Series made me cringe and wish they were interviewing somebody else. Everything felt jovial and happy and there he is with a sneer. I mean, was the media supposed to pretend that he hadn't been 0-9 in post-season starts and that those 3 wins he got were huge? I mean, really? Just say, I'm so glad I was able to make good on my promise about saving the post-seasons wins for the Red Sox. If he says something like that, well that's classy and I applaud. He does his "nah, nah, nah, nah" thing and I don't respect that honestly. I mean, god forbid a player ever admits they're thinking the thing that everyone knows they're thinking. So while everybody is up, say something like that to bring people down? ok. I don't care if he says it at some other point although really, if he hadn't already been 0-9 do you think the media would have said anything? Whose fault is it that he was 0-9? The media's or his? (and yeah, I know some of those 9 losses included decently pitched games in addition to some lousy starts)
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 27, 2019 12:46:14 GMT -5
This feels very much like projection. You like one player more than the other, which is fine. The idea that Sale loves being a Red Sox and is a true believer while Price is just some merc? That's you reflecting how you feel about them as being their actual feelings. Chris Sale certainly isn't a warm-and-fuzzy "I LOVE BOSTON THIS IS MY CITY" David Ortiz type, on any level. It's not his style, and we shouldn't expect it to be. So using it as a reason to like him reflects something in you, not him. The point wasn't that Price has been *better* than Sale - it's that Price gets all kinds of grief and Sale doesn't, despite some similar durability issues and Price being the one, rather than Sale, who was so good in the playoffs. And, as an aside... I think Eck is a lot of fun as a commentator, but the list of people and players who didn't get along with him over the last 45 years in the game is a lot longer than David Price. People keep going back to it, and it really feels like an excuse for people already pre-disposed to having an issue with Price for one reason or another. I don't feel like I'm projecting anything. Sale has never been anything but complimentary of the Red Sox, the fans, staying a Red Sox, etc. David Price has a very prickly personality and comes off badly. It's not hard to remember his back and forth with David Ortiz when Big Papi had the audacity to hit two playoff HRs off of him. His stuff with Eckersley is embarrassing. His "I hold all the cards now" thing after they just won the World Series made me cringe and wish they were interviewing somebody else. Everything felt jovial and happy and there he is with a sneer. I mean, was the media supposed to pretend that he hadn't been 0-9 in post-season starts and that those 3 wins he got were huge? I mean, really? Just say, I'm so glad I was able to make good on my promise about saving the post-seasons wins for the Red Sox. If he says something like that, well that's classy and I applaud. He does his "nah, nah, nah, nah" thing and I don't respect that honestly. I find it much easier to root for Sale than for Price personally. That is my opinion. I don't think I'm in the minority with this opinion. All that said, that has NOTHING to do with who's been a better pitcher, etc. Has nothing to do with any on-field type of stuff. I always got the sense that Sale has wanted to stick around and that Price wishes he could have had this money with just about any other team in baseball other than the Red Sox. You may say it's projecting, and that's fine, but I do listen to what these guys say and watch their body language when they talk. Sale can be ornery, but normally he's too busy beating himself up to be rude to others. He'll get silly with things such as cutting up uniforms or making up belly button ring injuries if he feels that he's at a competitive disadvantage. Again that's my opinion. I think that's a more popular opinion than not, but that doesn't make me right or your opinion any less valid. Or, it may be that Sale is better at PR than Price is and that's the main difference. I wouldn't assume we know anything about any of these guys based on what they say to the public.
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 27, 2019 13:16:06 GMT -5
I am going with Albert Pujols for 3 reasons.
1. The difference in his production before and after is staggering. 2. The Angels have been hamstrung for a long time and their is 2 years still to go. 3. Longest and most expensive deal.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 27, 2019 13:27:10 GMT -5
I don't feel like I'm projecting anything. Sale has never been anything but complimentary of the Red Sox, the fans, staying a Red Sox, etc. David Price has a very prickly personality and comes off badly. It's not hard to remember his back and forth with David Ortiz when Big Papi had the audacity to hit two playoff HRs off of him. His stuff with Eckersley is embarrassing. His "I hold all the cards now" thing after they just won the World Series made me cringe and wish they were interviewing somebody else. Everything felt jovial and happy and there he is with a sneer. I mean, was the media supposed to pretend that he hadn't been 0-9 in post-season starts and that those 3 wins he got were huge? I mean, really? Just say, I'm so glad I was able to make good on my promise about saving the post-seasons wins for the Red Sox. If he says something like that, well that's classy and I applaud. He does his "nah, nah, nah, nah" thing and I don't respect that honestly. I find it much easier to root for Sale than for Price personally. That is my opinion. I don't think I'm in the minority with this opinion. All that said, that has NOTHING to do with who's been a better pitcher, etc. Has nothing to do with any on-field type of stuff. I always got the sense that Sale has wanted to stick around and that Price wishes he could have had this money with just about any other team in baseball other than the Red Sox. Trying to tie this back to the topic Price certainly doesn't belong on this list. Sale could wind up on here and I think eventually he'll need surgery. I'm guessing the Sox get 1 to 1.5 good years out of Sale once he's past his injuries, if there is such a thing. This will be more of a modern day Danny Darwin type deal where you get some value (Darwin was good in 1993 and was so-so or bad and/or injured the rest of the time), but not what you hope for. You may say it's projecting, and that's fine, but I do listen to what these guys say and watch their body language when they talk. Sale can be ornery, but normally he's too busy beating himself up to be rude to others. He'll get silly with things such as cutting up uniforms or making up belly button ring injuries if he feels that he's at a competitive disadvantage. Again that's my opinion. I think that's a more popular opinion than not, but that doesn't make me right or your opinion any less valid. Or, it may be that Sale is better at PR than Price is and that's the main difference. I wouldn't assume we know anything about any of these guys based on what they say to the public. So Sale is a PR expert? Does Sale sound or look like a guy who cares about PR? I don't get that impression. He strikes me as an accountable guy who is a creature of comfort and doesn't make excuses. But I don't get the impression that he's PR savvy or anything like that.
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Post by pedroiaesque on Nov 27, 2019 14:08:25 GMT -5
In terms of being a complete waste of money, especially when there was no need to spend that much on a player with nobody else bidding, I would go with Davis.
But if you consider the broader impact on the organization, I would lean towards Pujols. Yes, they are getting some value out of him (on and likely off the field), but when you look at the players they surround Trout with, you have to wonder if they could have built a more competitive team with all the money they're spending on Pujols (not to mention him blocking the DH position).
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Post by Smittyw on Nov 27, 2019 14:32:01 GMT -5
The Angels have at least gotten almost 14 bWAR out of Pujols which, while obviously...eh, not ideal...is a hell of a lot more than the O's have gotten or will ever get from Davis since he signed his contract.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Nov 27, 2019 15:06:34 GMT -5
What? N Eric Gagne?
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Post by papifan3409 on Nov 27, 2019 15:47:48 GMT -5
What about Mike Hampton?
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Post by voiceofreason on Nov 27, 2019 16:30:38 GMT -5
The Angels have at least gotten almost 14 bWAR out of Pujols which, while obviously...eh, not ideal...is a hell of a lot more than the O's have gotten or will ever get from Davis since he signed his contract. Very true but the Angels are paying 240 million for that 14 bWAR and he could be in the negative for the next 2 years. I do have to say I was close to saying Davis.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 27, 2019 16:33:39 GMT -5
I'm kinda surprised that the Yankee's A-Rod extension hasn't been mentioned. It did end up being a necessary move for the '09 team so not a total loss unfortunately, but if the Yankees had to win one I'm glad it came at the cost of one of the worst back halfs of a contract you could imagine.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 27, 2019 16:42:05 GMT -5
Gagne was a trade, not a FA signing - and it didn't cost the Sox that much other than the services of David Murphy who would have made a nice #4 outfielder/platoon LF. The worst part of that deal wasn't who the Sox surrendered but rather how horrendously bad Gagne was, although he did do a good job in the post-season of mopping up digit victories and he did tell Cora how Kimbrel was tipping.
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Post by incandenza on Nov 27, 2019 17:18:35 GMT -5
I'm kinda surprised that the Yankee's A-Rod extension hasn't been mentioned. It did end up being a necessary move for the '09 team so not a total loss unfortunately, but if the Yankees had to win one I'm glad it came at the cost of one of the worst back halfs of a contract you could imagine. I thought about bringing that up, but he put up more than 20 WAR over the course of that deal, whereas Pujols has only produced about 5 (and dropping). And it's the same type of deal as Pujols', so while you might argue that another type of deal was worse (e.g., one for a player who has produced negative value, like Davis), it's hard to say ARod's was worse than Pujols'.
Side note: the Sale vs. Price debate reminds me a little of the whole Jeter vs. ARod thing. Of course everyone knew that Jeter was a total mensch and ARod a weirdo slimeball, but all that ever meant was that Jeter was better at playing the stupid PR game - in other words, he was better at being inauthentic. For exactly this reason I've always had a soft spot for athletes who get vilified by the media because they can't or won't play that dumb game, and that's why I always liked ARod more than Jeter. And one of the reasons I like Price.
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