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Post by redsoxfan2 on Jan 14, 2020 18:03:25 GMT -5
dmaine is known for pushing the envelope with some posts ? What's the big deal ?? I don't agree with the money in the Perez signing, that is for sure. If a culture of increased communication leads to a stronger franchise, i am all for it. I am cautious whenever I read about something that refers to an improvement over the Dombrowski regime, until there is data to supper the change being quantifiable...vis a vis....wins / titles. I know people around here may be frustrated about the state of the farm / luxury tax / health of the franchise from Dombrowski regime, but winning 3 straight division titles and a world championship comes along less frequently than Haley's comet when your a Sox fan. Any Bloom criticism is absolutely fair game....be isn't managing the Rays anymore. If someone doesn't like something...they should say it. I personally am glad LaRussa is gone and am anxiously waiting for Blooms successes as well Let's look at the differences between the beginning of the Dombrowski regime and the Bloom regime. Dombrowski had a ton of budget room, an incredible young and greatly improving core, the best farm system in baseball and an owner who hired him specifically to spend money and trade prospects to push the team over the top. There are probably a dozen GMs who could have won with what Dombrowski was handed. Bloom was hired because Dombrowksi used up all of the budget and then some and decimated the farm system. His goals set by Henry are to undo the complete mess that Dombrowksi left for him. Henry is to blame for not reigning in Dombrowski after they won the WS. Like the Eovaldi signing never should have been allowed if they all knew they'd have zero budget room last season and would be faced with cutting payroll this season. There are honestly zero ways to compare the two of them because their situations couldn't be more different. I actually credit Cherington at least as much as Dombrowski for building such an incredible farm system. Where would they have been without that? If Bloom can't win a division in the next 3 years, that will be completely on Dombrowski and Henry, not on him. Not to hijack this thread, but I feel like Dombrowski gets unnecessarily attacked for burning down farm systems. He rarely ever losses trades and the prospects ever rarely ever come back to be anything special. Margot is mediocre, Espinosa hasn't pitched in 2 years, Kopech is injury prone and has control issues, Moncada popped last year, but still has a horrid K/BB and his BABIP by month: April/March: .370 May: .366 June: .476 July: .345 August: .263 (9 games) September/October: .520 1st half: .392 2nd half: .426 The average BABIP for hitters is around . 300. To bring this back to Bloom. He's actually in a very comfortable position. He can't do anything is wrong. People think he's in such a bad position, but he's been told by ownership he can't make big moves and he has to trade away big salary. If he misses, he was just doing what he was told. If he hits (say trades Betts and gets a "B" prospect, but turns into the next Betts) he looks like an absolute genius.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
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Post by shagworthy on Jan 14, 2020 19:13:52 GMT -5
Let's look at the differences between the beginning of the Dombrowski regime and the Bloom regime. Dombrowski had a ton of budget room, an incredible young and greatly improving core, the best farm system in baseball and an owner who hired him specifically to spend money and trade prospects to push the team over the top. There are probably a dozen GMs who could have won with what Dombrowski was handed. Bloom was hired because Dombrowksi used up all of the budget and then some and decimated the farm system. His goals set by Henry are to undo the complete mess that Dombrowksi left for him. Henry is to blame for not reigning in Dombrowski after they won the WS. Like the Eovaldi signing never should have been allowed if they all knew they'd have zero budget room last season and would be faced with cutting payroll this season. There are honestly zero ways to compare the two of them because their situations couldn't be more different. I actually credit Cherington at least as much as Dombrowski for building such an incredible farm system. Where would they have been without that? If Bloom can't win a division in the next 3 years, that will be completely on Dombrowski and Henry, not on him. Not to hijack this thread, but I feel like Dombrowski gets unnecessarily attacked for burning down farm systems. He rarely ever losses trades and the prospects ever rarely ever come back to be anything special. Margot is mediocre, Espinosa hasn't pitched in 2 years, Kopech is injury prone and has control issues, Moncada popped last year, but still has a horrid K/BB and his BABIP by month: April/March: .370 May: .366 June: .476 July: .345 August: .263 (9 games) September/October: .520 1st half: .392 2nd half: .426 The average BABIP for hitters is around . 300. To bring this back to Bloom. He's actually in a very comfortable position. He can't do anything is wrong. People think he's in such a bad position, but he's been told by ownership he can't make big moves and he has to trade away big salary. If he misses, he was just doing what he was told. If he hits (say trades Betts and gets a "B" prospect, but turns into the next Betts) he looks like an absolute genius. I think that's a particularly astute observation. I think all of the spotlight being on the cheating scandal and impending moves definitely gives Bloom cover to operate under. That said, I do think there is some merit in the criticism of DD, less about the trades that gutted the farm system, and more around his willingness to overpay veterans that hamstring an organization, one only has to look at his model in Detroit, which is what he brought here, but early DD wasn't given the same leeway in Florida that he was gifted in Detroit and Boston, so there is a distinct possibility that with greater freedom to spend money comes a greater risk of miscalculating that expenditure. Will be interested to see if Bloom actually can meld some of the small market fiscal responsibility of moves with a budget substantially more than he was accustomed to. I do believe with the right set up, a team can be a contender every year for the championship and not HAVE to blow past the CBT.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jan 14, 2020 20:46:46 GMT -5
Gotta say I'm rather surprised by the lack of moves. Tampa has done what they always do and we really haven't seen any of that here yet.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Jan 14, 2020 22:54:36 GMT -5
Not to hijack this thread, but I feel like Dombrowski gets unnecessarily attacked for burning down farm systems. He rarely ever losses trades and the prospects ever rarely ever come back to be anything special. Margot is mediocre, Espinosa hasn't pitched in 2 years, Kopech is injury prone and has control issues, Moncada popped last year, but still has a horrid K/BB and his BABIP by month: April/March: .370 May: .366 June: .476 July: .345 August: .263 (9 games) September/October: .520 1st half: .392 2nd half: .426 The average BABIP for hitters is around . 300. To bring this back to Bloom. He's actually in a very comfortable position. He can't do anything is wrong. People think he's in such a bad position, but he's been told by ownership he can't make big moves and he has to trade away big salary. If he misses, he was just doing what he was told. If he hits (say trades Betts and gets a "B" prospect, but turns into the next Betts) he looks like an absolute genius. I think that's a particularly astute observation. I think all of the spotlight being on the cheating scandal and impending moves definitely gives Bloom cover to operate under. That said, I do think there is some merit in the criticism of DD, less about the trades that gutted the farm system, and more around his willingness to overpay veterans that hamstring an organization, one only has to look at his model in Detroit, which is what he brought here, but early DD wasn't given the same leeway in Florida that he was gifted in Detroit and Boston, so there is a distinct possibility that with greater freedom to spend money comes a greater risk of miscalculating that expenditure. Will be interested to see if Bloom actually can meld some of the small market fiscal responsibility of moves with a budget substantially more than he was accustomed to. I do believe with the right set up, a team can be a contender every year for the championship and not HAVE to blow past the CBT. the lack of moves was pretty much explained by Henry when he said that he wants to be competitive for the next 5 years and that the goal to get under the 208 was mostly media driven. that isn't to say there won't be some moves, but that it is not written in stone.
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Post by dirtdog on Jan 14, 2020 23:00:15 GMT -5
I think that's a particularly astute observation. I think all of the spotlight being on the cheating scandal and impending moves definitely gives Bloom cover to operate under. That said, I do think there is some merit in the criticism of DD, less about the trades that gutted the farm system, and more around his willingness to overpay veterans that hamstring an organization, one only has to look at his model in Detroit, which is what he brought here, but early DD wasn't given the same leeway in Florida that he was gifted in Detroit and Boston, so there is a distinct possibility that with greater freedom to spend money comes a greater risk of miscalculating that expenditure. Will be interested to see if Bloom actually can meld some of the small market fiscal responsibility of moves with a budget substantially more than he was accustomed to. I do believe with the right set up, a team can be a contender every year for the championship and not HAVE to blow past the CBT. the lack of moves was pretty much explained by Henry when he said that he wants to be competitive for the next 5 years and that the goal to get under the 208 was mostly media driven. that isn't to say there won't be some moves, but that it is not written in stone. And who owns a large chunk of the local media?
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Post by nesportfan on Jan 16, 2020 7:44:14 GMT -5
I think Bloom is pretty much done (other then possibly moving Pedroia to the 60 day IL & signing a back up OF) this is this years 40 man roster to start the season; Active (26) Rotation LH Chris Sale LH David Price RH Nathan Eovaldi LH Eduardo Rodriguez SP Martin Perez Bullpen RH Brandon Workman RH Matt Barnes LH Darwinzon Hernandez LH Josh Taylor RH Austin Brice RH Ryan Weber RH Marcus Walden RH Heath Hembree Lineup C. Christian Vazquez 1B Michael Chavis 2B Jose Peraza 3B Rafael Devers SS Xander Bogaerts LF Andrew Benintendi CF Jackie Bradley JR RF Mookie Betts DH JD Martinez Bench C Kevin Plawecki Inf Dustin Pedroia UTL Tzu-Wei Lin IF Jonathan Arauz Optioned (14) Hector Velazquez Jeffrey Springs Ryan Brasier Colten Brewer Travis Lakins Denyi Reyes Mike Shawaryn Josh Osich Yoan Aybar Kyle Hart Chris Mazza Bobby Dalbec CJ Chatham Marcus Wilson I don’t think Price or Betts or others are getting traded to open the season. I really hate the SP depth, (Velazquez, Reyes, Hart). I hope I’m wrong about Bloom being done because I think the team still needs a SP, 1B, 2B & OF. And why is Ryan Weber still on the team? Bloom has waived Brian Johnson, Sam Travis, Marco Hernandez, Bobby Poyner but kept Weber. I like this team. I hope he is done and everybody stays. If they get the right manager I think they will be right there with the Yankees & Rays. I like Chavis at 1B & Peraza at 2B and I think it would be great if Pedroia could come back and be on the bench. I wonder if he could be the back up 1B & Chavis could also become a 4th Outfielder especially if Dalbec were to earn his way onto the team. The starting pitching will have to be/stay healthy though, all of them were hurt last year except for Rodriguez I believe. I do agree with you about the starting pitching depth, it looks extremely weak. Lot of bullpen options though, hopefully someone catches fire and makes an impact.
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Post by huskies15 on Jan 16, 2020 9:18:59 GMT -5
I think there's a 1B signing coming. Trusting Chavis with no LHH options seems unwise. Maybe I'm wrong but Chavis has been injury-prone and struggled mightily to make contact last year. Would like to have another option.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 16, 2020 10:01:42 GMT -5
I think there's a 1B signing coming. Trusting Chavis with no LHH options seems unwise. Maybe I'm wrong but Chavis has been injury-prone and struggled mightily to make contact last year. Would like to have another option. It's funny. For the last few years I've always felt that 1b could be upgraded from Mitch Moreland. Nothing against Moreland. He starts out like a house on fire and then either fades and/or gets injured, but then comes alive again toward the end of the season. I'll always remember him fondly thanks to his Bernie Carbo like World Series PH 3-run blast that brought the Sox back to life again. Now the irony is that he is easily the best fit among the guys still out there to be that LH hitting 1b the Sox need. While they're at it, they still need a LH hitting 2b in my opinion. If the plan is to give Peraza 300 plus plate appearances....it would be kind of Eduardo Nunez-like to have to go through that again. Holt actually fits the Red Sox' needs best, too. At this point of the season, I'm hoping that the Sox are waiting them out so they can get them a lot cheaper - and I hope they'll still be their for the taking.
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Post by levi on Jan 17, 2020 11:07:59 GMT -5
Seems like the Red Sox have a void for the 4th outfielder spot on the depth chart. Not many options within the system besides John Andreoli and Cole Sturgeon. Some relatively cheap options on the FA market might be: - Steven Souza Jr. --- 2020 projected WAR 1.2 | poor outfield defense in 2018 (-11.9 UZR/150)
- Kevin Pillar --- 2020 projected WAR 1.2 | average outfield defense in 2019 (-0.6 UZR/150)
- Ben Zobrist --- 2020 projected WAR 0.4 | good outfield defense in 2019 (26.2 UZR/150)
- Brad Miller --- 2020 projected WAR 0.3 | great outfield defense in 2019 (31.9 UZR/150)
- Cameron Maybin --- 2020 project WAR 0.3 | average outfield defense in 2019 (-0.2 UZR/150)
Thoughts?
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Post by jbsox on Jan 17, 2020 11:20:26 GMT -5
Seems like the Red Sox have a void for the 4th outfielder spot on the depth chart. Not many options within the system besides John Andreoli and Cole Sturgeon. Some relatively cheap options on the FA market might be: - Steven Souza Jr. --- 2020 projected WAR 1.2 | poor outfield defense in 2018 (-11.9 UZR/150)
- Kevin Pillar --- 2020 projected WAR 1.2 | average outfield defense in 2019 (-0.6 UZR/150)
- Ben Zobrist --- 2020 projected WAR 0.4 | good outfield defense in 2019 (26.2 UZR/150)
- Brad Miller --- 2020 projected WAR 0.3 | great outfield defense in 2019 (31.9 UZR/150)
- Cameron Maybin --- 2020 project WAR 0.3 | average outfield defense in 2019 (-0.2 UZR/150)
Thoughts?
Lin has some OF experience. Not sure if Peraza or Arauz have any. Maybe they experiment with Chavis in LF, and of course if they re-sign Holt he can play the OF.
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on Jan 17, 2020 11:31:10 GMT -5
Lin career games in the OF (minors and majors): 51 in CF, 6 in LF, 2 in RF Peraza career games in OF (minors and majors): 44 in CF, 42 in LF, 1 in RF
They're probably comfortable giving rests in CF and LF with Peraza/Lin and rests in RF with JD Martinez. What they don't have is a solid depth OF to call up in case of injury (Gorkys Hernandez type) which they probably won't sign til February when vets are more open to minor league deals
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Post by levi on Jan 17, 2020 11:38:55 GMT -5
Lin (-82.7 UZR/150 albeit small sample size), Peraza (-15.0 UZR/150), and Martinez (-18.0 UZR/150) are all really poor defensively in the OF. I can't see them wanting Martinez in the OF very often - he should be strictly DH except in an emergency situation.
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on Jan 17, 2020 11:42:28 GMT -5
Last year Mookie played 150 games, JBJ played 147 and Benny played 138 games. I'm perfectly fine with JD covering 12 games in RF and Peraza/Lin covering ~19 games each in CF/LF. hat's less than 1 game a week with 1 below avg OF surrounded by 2 avg (Benny) to Gold glovers (Betts/JBJ)
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 17, 2020 13:45:04 GMT -5
And don't rule out their intending to have one or more of the MLFAs help cover there.
As mentioned, given how often this club needs the non-JD bench outfielder, it shouldn't be a priority.
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Post by dmaineah on Feb 6, 2020 6:46:50 GMT -5
Bloom just traded for a pitcher approaching 300 pounds with shoulder issues, has already had TJ Surgery, thought he would be a SP & is now realizing he is more likely to be a RP.
I continue to be unimpressed
Edit/Added;
How come I can read mlb.com and know that Graterol projects as a relief pitcher but that information escaped the Sox until now?
Chris Cotillo @chriscotillo Blockbuster update: Red Sox viewed Brusdar Graterol's medicals and "projected him more as a reliever than a starter," per @ken_Rosenthal Sox might ask for additional player or money.
Teams "confident the deal will be completed, but perhaps not in its original reported form."
What “medicals” is Bloom reading that discuss reliever v starter projections?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 6, 2020 9:26:15 GMT -5
Bloom just traded for a pitcher approaching 300 pounds with shoulder issues, has already had TJ Surgery, thought he would be a SP & is now realizing he is more likely to be a RP. I continue to be unimpressed
Edit/Added; How come I can read mlb.com and know that Graterol projects as a relief pitcher but that information escaped the Sox until now?
Chris Cotillo @chriscotillo Blockbuster update: Red Sox viewed Brusdar Graterol's medicals and "projected him more as a reliever than a starter," per @ken_Rosenthal Sox might ask for additional player or money. Teams "confident the deal will be completed, but perhaps not in its original reported form."
What “medicals” is Bloom reading that discuss reliever v starter projections? There is an enormous difference between the reasons the scouting community was split about whether Graterol would be a SP or RP (mostly development of a third pitch) and seeing something in the medicals that calls into question how he will hold up to a SP workload (presumably his shoulder). There is a reason trades are agreed to pending physicals.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 6, 2020 9:44:33 GMT -5
Fat pitchers never work out. David Wells and CC Sabathia were just awful. They never last long either. Look at how short Bartolo Colon's career was.
You want to argue he has shoulder problems, that's fine. This narrative that he's a bad prospect because he's fat is asinine.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 6, 2020 10:42:59 GMT -5
Fat pitchers never work out. David Wells and CC Sabathia were just awful. They never last long either. Look at how short Bartolo Colon's career was. You want to argue he has shoulder problems, that's fine. This narrative that he's a bad prospect because he's fat is asinine. It's like... not even really clear that he's fat?
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Post by manfred on Feb 6, 2020 10:53:12 GMT -5
Clear: he has had TJ. Clear: he had shoulder problems last year. Clear: he has a repertoire that is fit for relief.
Not clear: fitness.
Adds up. Color me psyched for our return on the best player the Sox have developed in 50+ years.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 6, 2020 10:55:43 GMT -5
Clear: he has had TJ. Clear: he had shoulder problems last year. Clear: he has a repertoire that is fit for relief. Not clear: fitness. Adds up. Color me psyched for our return on the best player the Sox have developed in 50+ years. Clear: best fastball/slider mix in minor league baseball Clear: Dude was born in 1999. Again, he's a little high-risk for my fraidy-cat self, but there are pretty clear reasons why the Red Sox would like the guy. They're not on an island here, he's a consensus Top 60 prospect in baseball.
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on Feb 6, 2020 10:56:18 GMT -5
Clear: he has had TJ. Clear: he had shoulder problems last year. Clear: he has a repertoire that is fit for relief. Not clear: fitness. Adds up. Color me psyched for our return on the best player the Sox have developed in 50+ years. Also not clear: Whether his ultimate future is as a reliever or starter considering people that are actually paid to make those decisions (scouts/GMs) are split on which role he will be in the future
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,961
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Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2020 11:00:31 GMT -5
Fat pitchers never work out. David Wells and CC Sabathia were just awful. They never last long either. Look at how short Bartolo Colon's career was. You want to argue he has shoulder problems, that's fine. This narrative that he's a bad prospect because he's fat is asinine. It's like... not even really clear that he's fat? THANK YOU He’s not. There’s literal game tape of him in the majors. Everybody has access to it. Go take a look at him and tell me he has a weight problem. He simply does not. If anything that frame is a workhorse’s frame. The arm isn’t a workhorse arm but that’s another thing entirely. It’s easy to see how he maintains his velocity- he looks really strong physically
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Post by manfred on Feb 6, 2020 11:15:05 GMT -5
Clear: he has had TJ. Clear: he had shoulder problems last year. Clear: he has a repertoire that is fit for relief. Not clear: fitness. Adds up. Color me psyched for our return on the best player the Sox have developed in 50+ years. Clear: best fastball/slider mix in minor league baseball Clear: Dude was born in 1999. Again, he's a little high-risk for my fraidy-cat self, but there are pretty clear reasons why the Red Sox would like the guy. They're not on an island here, he's a consensus Top 60 prospect in baseball. Hey, maybe he develops a wicked changeup working with Pedro or something. It has happened. But the fastball/slider combo, which is undeniable, is a closer repertoire otherwise. So in a sense we are not saying anything that different. Combine the fact that he has had issues in both trouble spots in one’s arm with the fact that changeups are actually very hard to throw well, and I return to my original response. Getting two prospects with one a real finger-crosser is a gut punch.
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Post by sarasoxer on Feb 6, 2020 11:24:25 GMT -5
It's like... not even really clear that he's fat? THANK YOU He’s not. There’s literal game tape of him in the majors. Everybody has access to it. Go take a look at him and tell me he has a weight problem. He simply does not. If anything that frame is a workhorse’s frame. The arm isn’t a workhorse arm but that’s another thing entirely. It’s easy to see how he maintains his velocity- he looks really strong physically Agreed. I expected a Mickey, "I don't pitch with my stomach" Lolich, rotundus Americanus type. I couldn't believe from the pics that he was 265 lbs. Guy is solid.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 6, 2020 12:04:03 GMT -5
Bloom just traded for a pitcher approaching 300 pounds with shoulder issues, has already had TJ Surgery, thought he would be a SP & is now realizing he is more likely to be a RP. I continue to be unimpressed
Edit/Added; How come I can read mlb.com and know that Graterol projects as a relief pitcher but that information escaped the Sox until now?
Chris Cotillo @chriscotillo Blockbuster update: Red Sox viewed Brusdar Graterol's medicals and "projected him more as a reliever than a starter," per @ken_Rosenthal Sox might ask for additional player or money. Teams "confident the deal will be completed, but perhaps not in its original reported form."
What “medicals” is Bloom reading that discuss reliever v starter projections? He's really not even close to 300 pounds and weight isn't as important as body composition, which is much less concerning with him. Unless you mean "approaching" to mean gaining weight then in which case you, me, and pretty much everyone older than 22 is technically approaching 300 pounds.
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