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Red Sox linked to using video replay room illegally
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 7, 2020 13:34:11 GMT -5
So passan said he was likely getting suspended for the 2017 scandal, and now there's probably going to be a 2018 suspension. If cora missed 50+ games, why keep him around on a transitioning team? Because he can coach the other 110 games and then coach next year and the year after and the year after You are quite literally the only person I’ve seen suggesting this Actually, the lack of discussion of Cora getting punished is kind of mystifying. It wasn't until a scout friend asked me what I thought was going to happen to him for Houston that I realized that there's a real chance he's getting punished for it, and seriously so. I don't think he's getting fired, but I don't think freddysthefuture is wrong that firing him is now on the table depending on what the facts are in the two situations. If, for example, Cora was told by the front office right before the season not to do this, then he did, then yeah, that's fire-able. Now, I also don't think that's what happened, so we'll see.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,483
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Post by shagworthy on Jan 7, 2020 13:35:29 GMT -5
The article suggests they were doing this before Cora got there, and probably most if not all contending teams were doing something like this. How did they do this before Cora got here when the headline explicitly reads- "Red Sox used video replay room illegally in 2018." Yeah of course a lot of teams were doing this. The Sox should have known better after getting punished the first time. I expect Cora will be suspended for some period of time, especially for being implicated in both sign stealing schemes. I'm disappointed, but I think the benefit is more psychological because of the paranoia it creates on the opposing team probably leads to unforced errors. I expect a few offensive players will be named as conduits (Pedroia, JD) and receive fines, and the Sox have put themselves in the cross-hairs of Manfred, whose only manhood trait is his name. He's not going to go lightly on them, even if this is rampant (which it is) within the league. They will be made an example of, on par with whatever he does to Houston. Aside from that, considering how quiet our offseason has been, the timing couldn't be worse. The next few weeks should really be focused on roster refinement, and not answering questions about exactly what they did and didn't do and trying to find who the rat is. Instead of talking about prospective moves, and ways to be competitive long term, here we are, discussing this.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 7, 2020 13:39:06 GMT -5
The Red Sox players probably won't be implicated. The Houston scandal, which is though to be worse, is about to get their punishments and it's said that the players won't be implicated in those punishments either.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 7, 2020 13:39:53 GMT -5
Because he can coach the other 110 games and then coach next year and the year after and the year after You are quite literally the only person I’ve seen suggesting this Actually, the lack of discussion of Cora getting punished is kind of mystifying. It wasn't until a scout friend asked me what I thought was going to happen to him for Houston that I realized that there's a real chance he's getting punished for it, and seriously so. I don't think he's getting fired, but I don't think freddysthefuture is wrong that firing him is now on the table depending on what the facts are in the two situations. If, for example, Cora was told by the front office right before the season not to do this, then he did, then yeah, that's fire-able. Now, I also don't think that's what happened, so we'll see. If Cora is caught doing this twice (once in Houston, once in Boston), they might not need to fire him. Lifetime ban could be on the table too.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,483
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Post by shagworthy on Jan 7, 2020 13:42:53 GMT -5
The Red Sox players probably won't be implicated. The Houston scandal, which is though to be worse, is about to get their punishments and it's said that the players won't be implicated in those punishments either. I saw elsewhere that players would be subject potentially to expensive fines, but not suspensions. But now I re-read it, the players won't get the fines, the organizations would. Good catch.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Jan 7, 2020 13:58:29 GMT -5
he literally just won a World Series w borderline magical decisions. Pinch hitting Nunez? That’s some sorcery ...huh
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Post by fenwaydouble on Jan 7, 2020 14:00:01 GMT -5
The article suggests they were doing this before Cora got there, and probably most if not all contending teams were doing something like this. How did they do this before Cora got here when the headline explicitly reads- "Red Sox used video replay room illegally in 2018." Yeah of course a lot of teams were doing this. The Sox should have known better after getting punished the first time. As far back as 2015, the Yankees used the video replay room to learn other teams’ sign sequences, multiple sources told The Athletic. Other teams likely were doing the same. Sources said the Red Sox began doing it no later than 2016.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 7, 2020 14:10:56 GMT -5
How did they do this before Cora got here when the headline explicitly reads- "Red Sox used video replay room illegally in 2018." Yeah of course a lot of teams were doing this. The Sox should have known better after getting punished the first time. As far back as 2015, the Yankees used the video replay room to learn other teams’ sign sequences, multiple sources told The Athletic. Other teams likely were doing the same. Sources said the Red Sox began doing it no later than 2016.Okay you got me. He didn't introduce it here. He certainly kept the good old "tradition" going however, which was even more stupid. Every team was told they can't do it after the apple watch scandal in 2017 by Manfred himself.
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Post by kevfc89 on Jan 7, 2020 18:06:13 GMT -5
Cora, you were the chosen one
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Post by orion09 on Jan 7, 2020 18:22:34 GMT -5
I’ll be really disappointed if they lose draft picks over this. They’ve got the 17th pick in what experts are calling the deepest draft since 2011.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 7, 2020 19:45:07 GMT -5
There is a humorous side to all this. Picture the Dodger fans.
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Post by jdb on Jan 7, 2020 19:53:20 GMT -5
There is a humorous side to all this. Picture the Dodger fans. I’d be willing to bet the Dodgers and every other team were doing something similar. Maybe I’m bias but this seems less like the Astros relaying it to every hitter via a trash can and more like an ejected manager still managing while watching TV from the dugout.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 8, 2020 0:14:42 GMT -5
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Post by dirtywater43 on Jan 8, 2020 4:13:52 GMT -5
Ohh the Sox are porked. Undoubtedly porked.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jan 8, 2020 5:56:40 GMT -5
Red Sox will be subject to the same investigation level as the Astros, including turning over their phones. I suspect that if Cora is implicated he is going to be suspended for at least one year given his association with both the Astros and Red Sox. The Red Sox are also likely going to be subject to significant fines and loss of draft picks. While the Astros and Red Sox got caught, it is likely the majority of other teams were doing the same thing. However unless other players or coaches rat on their former teams with MLB or reporters they may be the only teams subject to punishment. It will also be interesting to see the fallout for Drellich and the three (likely former) Red Sox employees. I can’t imagine that Drellich will be welcome in the Red Sox (and possibly many other teams) clubhouse going forward. These former employees may have more difficulty finding future employment in baseball. www.si.com/mlb/2020/01/08/red-sox-cheating-sign-stealing
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 8, 2020 9:42:39 GMT -5
Ohh the Sox are porked. Undoubtedly porked. Yup, they'll lose draft pick(s). Not good for a team trying to rebuild their farm system. Could see them being held out of the international market as well. I think that a lot of teams, including the Yankees, are cheating in a similar manner as the Red Sox, but what annoys me is that the Sox were specifically told not to and they did, plus now there are going to always be the 2018 with an asterisk type of comments, which sucks. I don't think the cheating is why they won, but it certainly helped, and they certainly didn't do a good job of cheating last season. I also think this makes Cora look terrible. Yes, it preceded him here and it's rampant around the league, but now he's involved in two of these scandals. So the 1990s and aughts were players cheating with PEDs and this past decade it's electronic cheating. Well, hell this is all old stuff - I mean didn't the Giants cheat in 1951 when they came back against the Dodgers? I think they had a guy stationed with binoculars stealing signs?
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 8, 2020 10:13:47 GMT -5
This seems like Deflategate to me. The league cares so much about this that they did nothing at all to stop it and still haven't fixed it, but go after the Boston team that won the hardest and especially never look at the Yankees. If any team was NOT doing this, then they weren't even trying. I mean it's like putting candy in front of a baby and leaving the room.
Plus, don't the catchers continually change the tells, making this method close to useless and sometimes even harmful if the wrong pitches are being signaled to the hitters?
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 8, 2020 10:57:02 GMT -5
This seems like Deflategate to me. The league cares so much about this that they did nothing at all to stop it and still haven't fixed it, but go after the Boston team that won the hardest and especially never look at the Yankees. If any team was NOT doing this, then they weren't even trying. I mean it's like putting candy in front of a baby and leaving the room. Plus, don't the catchers continually change the tells, making this method close to useless and sometimes even harmful if the wrong pitches are being signaled to the hitters? They're clearly going after the Houston team the hardest, so stop the "everyone is out to get Boston" persecution complex. Also the Patriots get punished a lot because they get caught doing little cheaty things a lot. You can't complain that they "haven't fixed it" when they're trying to fix it.
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 8, 2020 11:03:28 GMT -5
This seems like Deflategate to me. The league cares so much about this that they did nothing at all to stop it and still haven't fixed it, but go after the Boston team that won the hardest and especially never look at the Yankees. If any team was NOT doing this, then they weren't even trying. I mean it's like putting candy in front of a baby and leaving the room. Plus, don't the catchers continually change the tells, making this method close to useless and sometimes even harmful if the wrong pitches are being signaled to the hitters? They're clearly going after the Houston team the hardest, so stop the "everyone is out to get Boston" persecution complex. Also the Patriots get punished a lot because they get caught little cheaty things a lot. You can't complain that they "haven't fixed it" when they're trying to fix it. So MLB didn't think in 2017 that teams might use the unsupervised replay room to steal signs? That's some pretty forward thinking there. That's so much less nefarious than putting hidden cameras in the stands and using scouts and spies.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 8, 2020 11:21:29 GMT -5
Red Sox will be subject to the same investigation level as the Astros, including turning over their phones. I suspect that if Cora is implicated he is going to be suspended for at least one year given his association with both the Astros and Red Sox. The Red Sox are also likely going to be subject to significant fines and loss of draft picks. While the Astros and Red Sox got caught, it is likely the majority of other teams were doing the same thing. However unless other players or coaches rat on their former teams with MLB or reporters they may be the only teams subject to punishment. It will also be interesting to see the fallout for Drellich and the three (likely former) Red Sox employees. I can’t imagine that Drellich will be welcome in the Red Sox (and possibly many other teams) clubhouse going forward. These former employees may have more difficulty finding future employment in baseball. www.si.com/mlb/2020/01/08/red-sox-cheating-sign-stealingWhat you bring up about players coming forward to rat is the reason it is hard to believe the vast majority of conspiracy theories. How do you keep everyone happy and silent when they know the truth about something. Can you blame pitchers for getting pissed off if they know everyone is trying to do it, including the team they are playing for. It is their lively hood that is being threatened. MLB is in an interesting position of having to lay down the law on 2 teams that got caught doing something that they know most teams are trying to do. I think they will come down hard as it is all they can do to curb the behavior in the future. Is it just me or has doing absolutely anything, regardless of right or wrong, to win become acceptable in this country.
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 8, 2020 11:24:19 GMT -5
They're clearly going after the Houston team the hardest, so stop the "everyone is out to get Boston" persecution complex. Also the Patriots get punished a lot because they get caught little cheaty things a lot. You can't complain that they "haven't fixed it" when they're trying to fix it. So MLB didn't think in 2017 that teams might use the unsupervised replay room to steal signs? That's some pretty forward thinking there. That's so much less nefarious than putting hidden cameras in the stands and using scouts and spies. An organization can be dumb and still be allowed to punish people they catch breaking the rules. "The thing we got caught exploiting was an easily exploitable thing" isn't much of a defense. By way of analogy, there's a huge home goods store in the mall near me that never has any employees in the half of the store near the entrance to the mall. It would be very, very, very easy to steal things from that store. If I stole something from there and got caught, "I only did it because they were foolish to set up a store that's easy to shoplift from" would not help me escape penalty.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 8, 2020 11:33:59 GMT -5
Red Sox will be subject to the same investigation level as the Astros, including turning over their phones. I suspect that if Cora is implicated he is going to be suspended for at least one year given his association with both the Astros and Red Sox. The Red Sox are also likely going to be subject to significant fines and loss of draft picks. While the Astros and Red Sox got caught, it is likely the majority of other teams were doing the same thing. However unless other players or coaches rat on their former teams with MLB or reporters they may be the only teams subject to punishment. It will also be interesting to see the fallout for Drellich and the three (likely former) Red Sox employees. I can’t imagine that Drellich will be welcome in the Red Sox (and possibly many other teams) clubhouse going forward. These former employees may have more difficulty finding future employment in baseball. www.si.com/mlb/2020/01/08/red-sox-cheating-sign-stealingWhat you bring up about players coming forward to rat is the reason it is hard to believe the vast majority of conspiracy theories. How do you keep everyone happy and silent when they know the truth about something. Can you blame pitchers for getting pissed off if they know everyone is trying to do it, including the team they are playing for. It is their lively hood that is being threatened. MLB is in an interesting position of having to lay down the law on 2 teams that got caught doing something that they know most teams are trying to do. I think they will come down hard as it is all they can do to curb the behavior in the future. Is it just me or has doing absolutely anything, regardless of right or wrong, to win become acceptable in this country. I'll stay out of the potential political stuff that your question could be construed to raise despite my strong opinions on that and just say that I was a big UCONN Huskies fan - in Connecticut there was the Whalers and nothing else to call your own and then when the Whalers faded out and soon moved the only real Connecticut team of significance were the UCONN Huskies college basketball team (for the sake of this question I'll exclude the UCONN Ladies who have done just about everything you could ask for in their excellence and their ability to stay virtually controversy free - Geno Auriemma has been wonderful), but the UCONN men's team - they reminded me a bit of the Sox - never a winner, had their share of heartbreaks, and then one day they finally slayed their dragon (Duke) in the 1999 NCAA finals after finally breaking through to finally make the Final 4. Eventually they sustained success but around the time Jim Calhoun was leaving there started to be the stench of recruiting violations and things that were being done that were not above board and it continued into the Kevin Ollie era. So there were suddenly 4 championships (just like the Sox), but it didn't feel so kosher anymore. Then I root for the Patriots who were the league joke for many years. Then suddenly the Patriots are the greatest dynasty in football history, but every five minutes there are controversies with that team, although I do think Deflategate was the stupidest thing I've ever heard of - that should never have been a thing. Now between Manny and Ortiz accused of PEDs (in Manny's case it's nore than an accusation - the question is WHEN was he doing it?) and now the controversy with 2018, which should be a sacred year in Red Sox history, only behind 2004 and perhaps even with 2013 and 1967 and 1912), and that now has a stain on it, even if the Sox were doing what pretty much everybody else was doing. All those championships have some scent of stain on them which is a shame because it is about winning it all. I mean I don't remember hearing controversies about how my teams won - when they weren't winning, and I certainly have enjoyed the past two decades of the golden era than the previous two decades than my fandom stretches back to, but yeah, in the end it's all about the winning and virtually everybody is cheating in some form to get that edge to win. So it has become acceptable I suppose even if some of that detracts a little bit afterwards because it's not like you know it's actually happening when it's happening. You always find out afterwards at some point and then groan to yourself and shake your head, but hey, it's not like I'm going to tear down my shrine room of Championships, so what does that say about me and my morals (and before Yankee fans act superior how do they win Game 7 without Juicin' Giambi's 2 homers off Pedro)?
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Post by jimed14 on Jan 8, 2020 11:36:13 GMT -5
So MLB didn't think in 2017 that teams might use the unsupervised replay room to steal signs? That's some pretty forward thinking there. That's so much less nefarious than putting hidden cameras in the stands and using scouts and spies. An organization can be dumb and still be allowed to punish people they catch breaking the rules. "The thing we got caught exploiting was an easily exploitable thing" isn't much of a defense. By way of analogy, there's a huge home goods store in the mall near me that never has any employees in the half of the store near the entrance to the mall. It would be very, very, very easy to steal things from that store. If I stole something from there and got caught, "I only did it because they were foolish to set up a store that's easy to shoplift from" would not help me escape penalty. It's just annoying that they'd only prosecute the Red Sox fans while letting the Yankees fans walk free.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jan 8, 2020 11:43:56 GMT -5
The Cardinals were fined 2 million and lost their first 2 picks in the 2017 draft for hacking the Astros computers mining for information.
Will it be this bad? Like I said before, if they know everyone is trying to do it does it make the punishment more or less. It is a quandary for MLB but I think the Sox are going to get smacked around pretty good for this.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jan 8, 2020 11:48:51 GMT -5
An organization can be dumb and still be allowed to punish people they catch breaking the rules. "The thing we got caught exploiting was an easily exploitable thing" isn't much of a defense. By way of analogy, there's a huge home goods store in the mall near me that never has any employees in the half of the store near the entrance to the mall. It would be very, very, very easy to steal things from that store. If I stole something from there and got caught, "I only did it because they were foolish to set up a store that's easy to shoplift from" would not help me escape penalty. It's just annoying that they'd only prosecute the Red Sox fans while letting the Yankees fans walk free. Yeah, the MLB officials all woke up and decided "Hmm, let's make Red Sox fans suffer today, that sounds fun!".. THAT'S what's really happening here.
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