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Mookie Betts traded as part of a three-team deal
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Post by redsoxfan2 on May 11, 2021 9:31:32 GMT -5
The narrative that Bloom traded 60 games of Betts for Verdugo, Downs and Wong is just wrong. Covid hit after that trade. If you want to use that narrative Covid also got Betts to sign a deal before free agency, something he was totally against. Judging the trade versus judging the GM is two totally different things. I feel a bunch of you are giving Bloom credit because he had the power to trade Betts. I like the trade, yeah it's very good value. Yet you traded Mookie Betts, the second best player in Baseball. So for me I compare that to what other GMs could have done. What could DD have done for example? If DD gets Verdugo and Downs, was Bloom that much better? I feel it's fair to say almost every GM is taking Verdugo as the #1 piece. That's the way GMs draw it up, former high end prospect that already had a bunch of MLB success to replace your star player. A Verdugo, Downs, Ferguson and maybe another young prospect rumor was flying around for a good amount of time. He almost messed that up trying to get crazy creative to get the pitcher he wanted. Luckily they backed out of that deal and you get Verdugo, Downs and Wong. He did a decent job playing the Padres off of the Dodgers, yet I except any good GM would do that when both had interest. Are we giving Bloom credit because the Dodgers were desperate? For me that's just perfect timing, that's good luck for him. Not something he did and he almost messed it up. He needed an MRI to tell him what all the scouts were saying. A big part of this was also a bunch of posters thinking you'd get nothing for one year of Betts. Yet that narrative was always crazy. Players like Betts almost never get traded in their primes. You were always going to get more than a lot of people expected. If Goldschmidt gets you two former top 100s major league ready, Betts was always getting you a lot more. www.si.com/mlb/2018/12/21/ldodgers-reds-trade-yasiel-puig-matt-kemp-homer-bailey-bryce-harper#:~:text=Dodgers%20outfielders%20Yasiel%20Puig%20and%20Matt%20Kemp%2C%20catcher,to%20the%20Cincinnati%20Reds%2C%20the%20team%20announced%20Friday. That Dodgers Reds trade is HR trade, the main piece is Puig and they got Downs/Gray! I'm not trying to bash Bloom either, I like what he's done. He's just getting so much credit because he was allowed to trade Betts. Unless you think that Betts trade is all him and a guy like DD can't get that package. Yet that's a DD special in my book. He might not get Wong. He would have heard Verdugo/Downs and jumped on it likely, not caring about a third piece. Add Caleb Ferguson to the list of Dodgers pitchers to have TJ surgery. Unreal three good young pitchers in under a year. Is Mookie Betts the 2nd best player in baseball? Verdugo has been slumping as of late and Mookie just passed him in OPS and WAR, but barely. Verdugo is 25, Betts is 28. There is still room for growth for Verdugo, but I suspect that Betts will be the better player moving forward. Betts supposedly didn't want to sign an extension or be here. That's just the rumors, but I agree that Covid-19 spooked him into signing an extension, that's worth 12/365 (17.5 this year). Verdugo is making $649,500 and then has 3 years of arbitration and then you add on Connor Wong and Jeter Downs and it's a very good trade for the Red Sox. Verdugo was a top 25 prospect in baseball. As a 23 year old he hit .294/.342/.475/.817 in the majors. Verdugo will be better than .297/.352/.461/.813. It's really hard to imagine getting much better value than what the Red Sox got back. They got a guy whose playing almost as good as Mookie for a fraction of the cost and years of control, plus a very good prospect in Jeter Downs. Mlb has Jeter Downs as the 40th best prospect in baseball. www.mlb.com/prospects
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 11, 2021 10:49:31 GMT -5
The narrative that Bloom traded 60 games of Betts for Verdugo, Downs and Wong is just wrong. Covid hit after that trade. If you want to use that narrative Covid also got Betts to sign a deal before free agency, something he was totally against. Judging the trade versus judging the GM is two totally different things. I feel a bunch of you are giving Bloom credit because he had the power to trade Betts. I like the trade, yeah it's very good value. Yet you traded Mookie Betts, the second best player in Baseball. So for me I compare that to what other GMs could have done. What could DD have done for example? If DD gets Verdugo and Downs, was Bloom that much better? I feel it's fair to say almost every GM is taking Verdugo as the #1 piece. That's the way GMs draw it up, former high end prospect that already had a bunch of MLB success to replace your star player. A Verdugo, Downs, Ferguson and maybe another young prospect rumor was flying around for a good amount of time. He almost messed that up trying to get crazy creative to get the pitcher he wanted. Luckily they backed out of that deal and you get Verdugo, Downs and Wong. He did a decent job playing the Padres off of the Dodgers, yet I except any good GM would do that when both had interest. Are we giving Bloom credit because the Dodgers were desperate? For me that's just perfect timing, that's good luck for him. Not something he did and he almost messed it up. He needed an MRI to tell him what all the scouts were saying. A big part of this was also a bunch of posters thinking you'd get nothing for one year of Betts. Yet that narrative was always crazy. Players like Betts almost never get traded in their primes. You were always going to get more than a lot of people expected. If Goldschmidt gets you two former top 100s major league ready, Betts was always getting you a lot more. www.si.com/mlb/2018/12/21/ldodgers-reds-trade-yasiel-puig-matt-kemp-homer-bailey-bryce-harper#:~:text=Dodgers%20outfielders%20Yasiel%20Puig%20and%20Matt%20Kemp%2C%20catcher,to%20the%20Cincinnati%20Reds%2C%20the%20team%20announced%20Friday. That Dodgers Reds trade is HR trade, the main piece is Puig and they got Downs/Gray! I'm not trying to bash Bloom either, I like what he's done. He's just getting so much credit because he was allowed to trade Betts. Unless you think that Betts trade is all him and a guy like DD can't get that package. Yet that's a DD special in my book. He might not get Wong. He would have heard Verdugo/Downs and jumped on it likely, not caring about a third piece. Add Caleb Ferguson to the list of Dodgers pitchers to have TJ surgery. Unreal three good young pitchers in under a year. Is Mookie Betts the 2nd best player in baseball? Verdugo has been slumping as of late and Mookie just passed him in OPS and WAR, but barely. Verdugo is 25, Betts is 28. There is still room for growth for Verdugo, but I suspect that Betts will be the better player moving forward. Betts supposedly didn't want to sign an extension or be here. That's just the rumors, but I agree that Covid-19 spooked him into signing an extension, that's worth 12/365 (17.5 this year). Verdugo is making $649,500 and then has 3 years of arbitration and then you add on Connor Wong and Jeter Downs and it's a very good trade for the Red Sox. Verdugo was a top 25 prospect in baseball. As a 23 year old he hit .294/.342/.475/.817 in the majors. Verdugo will be better than .297/.352/.461/.813. It's really hard to imagine getting much better value than what the Red Sox got back. They got a guy whose playing almost as good as Mookie for a fraction of the cost and years of control, plus a very good prospect in Jeter Downs. Mlb has Jeter Downs as the 40th best prospect in baseball. www.mlb.com/prospectsFrom 2015 to 2021 he's second to only Mike Trout in war and its not even really close. I don't think anyone would dispute that comment when the trade was made or heck even now. No doubt it's a very good trade for the Red Sox. I was looking at grading the GM making the trade. It's like the Chris Sale trade, you have to weigh the return versus what was given up.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 11, 2021 10:51:36 GMT -5
Is Mookie Betts the 2nd best player in baseball? Verdugo has been slumping as of late and Mookie just passed him in OPS and WAR, but barely. Verdugo is 25, Betts is 28. There is still room for growth for Verdugo, but I suspect that Betts will be the better player moving forward. Betts supposedly didn't want to sign an extension or be here. That's just the rumors, but I agree that Covid-19 spooked him into signing an extension, that's worth 12/365 (17.5 this year). Verdugo is making $649,500 and then has 3 years of arbitration and then you add on Connor Wong and Jeter Downs and it's a very good trade for the Red Sox. Verdugo was a top 25 prospect in baseball. As a 23 year old he hit .294/.342/.475/.817 in the majors. Verdugo will be better than .297/.352/.461/.813. It's really hard to imagine getting much better value than what the Red Sox got back. They got a guy whose playing almost as good as Mookie for a fraction of the cost and years of control, plus a very good prospect in Jeter Downs. Mlb has Jeter Downs as the 40th best prospect in baseball. www.mlb.com/prospectsFrom 2015 to 2021 he's second to only Mike Trout in war and its not even really close. I don't think anyone would dispute that comment when the trade was made or heck even now. No doubt it's a very good trade for the Red Sox. I was looking at grading the GM making the trade. It's like the Chris Sale trade, you have to weigh the return versus what was given up. I'd also say that you also have to factor in the "T" factor of a trade, which it "Timing". Moncada and Kopech will likely provide more value than Sale, but the timing of when Sale was at his peak is a factor, too. He was great when the Sox were at their best. Moncada and Kopech probably don't help the Sox much in 2018. And of course, getting Sale to experience Boston might have been a very positive factor in his willingness to re-sign with the Sox. Of course one can say, "And that's a good thing, because...... ?" We'll see on that one as I'm not convinced that Sale will immediately return to being Chris Sale, but I'm also unwilling to write off the idea that Sale can become a very crucial part of present and future competing Red Sox teams, so I'm not ready to judge the merits of his extension, but am trying to make the point that the extension became possible because of his trade to the team which helped make him want to stay. As it is, Sale has always said that he's quite happy in Boston and wants to be a lifer here. That might not happen without the trade. That kind of thing factored in Mark McGwire wanting to stay in St. Louis when the A's dealt him. So I think there are those unquantifiable things that can factor in when it comes to an evaluation of a trade.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on May 11, 2021 10:53:08 GMT -5
The narrative that Bloom traded 60 games of Betts for Verdugo, Downs and Wong is just wrong. Covid hit after that trade. If you want to use that narrative Covid also got Betts to sign a deal before free agency, something he was totally against. Judging the trade versus judging the GM is two totally different things. I feel a bunch of you are giving Bloom credit because he had the power to trade Betts. I like the trade, yeah it's very good value. Yet you traded Mookie Betts, the second best player in Baseball. So for me I compare that to what other GMs could have done. What could DD have done for example? If DD gets Verdugo and Downs, was Bloom that much better? I feel it's fair to say almost every GM is taking Verdugo as the #1 piece. That's the way GMs draw it up, former high end prospect that already had a bunch of MLB success to replace your star player. A Verdugo, Downs, Ferguson and maybe another young prospect rumor was flying around for a good amount of time. He almost messed that up trying to get crazy creative to get the pitcher he wanted. Luckily they backed out of that deal and you get Verdugo, Downs and Wong. He did a decent job playing the Padres off of the Dodgers, yet I except any good GM would do that when both had interest. Are we giving Bloom credit because the Dodgers were desperate? For me that's just perfect timing, that's good luck for him. Not something he did and he almost messed it up. He needed an MRI to tell him what all the scouts were saying. A big part of this was also a bunch of posters thinking you'd get nothing for one year of Betts. Yet that narrative was always crazy. Players like Betts almost never get traded in their primes. You were always going to get more than a lot of people expected. If Goldschmidt gets you two former top 100s major league ready, Betts was always getting you a lot more. www.si.com/mlb/2018/12/21/ldodgers-reds-trade-yasiel-puig-matt-kemp-homer-bailey-bryce-harper#:~:text=Dodgers%20outfielders%20Yasiel%20Puig%20and%20Matt%20Kemp%2C%20catcher,to%20the%20Cincinnati%20Reds%2C%20the%20team%20announced%20Friday. That Dodgers Reds trade is HR trade, the main piece is Puig and they got Downs/Gray! I'm not trying to bash Bloom either, I like what he's done. He's just getting so much credit because he was allowed to trade Betts. Unless you think that Betts trade is all him and a guy like DD can't get that package. Yet that's a DD special in my book. He might not get Wong. He would have heard Verdugo/Downs and jumped on it likely, not caring about a third piece. Add Caleb Ferguson to the list of Dodgers pitchers to have TJ surgery. Unreal three good young pitchers in under a year. I think it was kind of obvious when Mookie was here and you're scrolling through the teams that could acquire Mookie, that the Dodgers stood out and it was also obvious that the trade would start with Alex Verdugo. It was so obvious any idiot could figure that out. If you don't believe me go through my posts from when the talk of a theoretical Mookie trade was first being discussed. You'll see I mentioned Alex Verdugo as a guy that would be the starting point of the deal - and if you do see that post, I have to ask, do you have that much time on your hands you actually looked up my old posts?! My point was it was so obvious that the Dodgers would be the team and Verdugo would be the guy. I think the with Bloom it's less credit for the trade and more credit for the chutzpah to pull off the deal. Theo got a lot of courage points for trading an icon in Nomar who was toward the end of the line as anybody watching the team could clearly see, and for two guys batting .246, but if you stopped looking at Nomar as a .372 hitter and saw him for what he was at that point, a guy who could still hit, but wasn't what he once was, and really could no longer be counted on to play every day or play a competent SS, it made sense. With Mookie, you had a generational player very much in his prime that virtually everybody wanted extended. I think that's even harder to trade, but once the decision was made - whether it was ownership not wanting to spend Trout money on Mookie or Bloom deciding that paying Mookie all that money to play like Mookie when he figured the team was on the way down and then have Mookie hitting his decline when his future rebuilt team was on the way up, or the Sox scared that Mookie would take it all the way to free agency and then go elsewhere and getting nothing more than a draft pick - whichever theory you subscribe to, then the deal itself as far as the team(s) to deal with and the players to target was the easy part. I do give Bloom points for creativity. He liked what he thought Graterol could be but made sure the medicals backed up his thoughts, which they clearly didn't, so he went for Downs, who was a natural guy to go after. My only complaint was that he didn't come away with pitching in that deal. I thought maybe if he expanded it to include Workman, they could have pried Gray or Ferguson or Gonsolin away - maybe they couldn't have, but that complaint went by the boards when he used Workman (and Hembree) to swipe Pivetta and Seabold from the Phillies - it was as if Bloom said - THERE is your pitching. I'll be curious to see if Wong becomes a capable starting catcher that they think he can be. I'm not sure how that works with Vazquez going forward, but it'll be interesting to see if they get a lot of value out of Wong as well. I figured they'd go after Ruiz or the younger catcher with the higher ceiling if they weren't getting a pitcher in the deal. I guess if they got Downs then they had to take the lesser regarded catcher in Wong as the 3rd piece in the deal. I didn't look anything up, yet I remember two groups of posters, those that thought we get a huge return and those that think we get almost nothing. I do believe the former group didn't want to see Betts go, so they dug in that you can't get anything, even when it made zero sense.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on May 12, 2021 0:37:42 GMT -5
Is Mookie Betts the 2nd best player in baseball? Verdugo has been slumping as of late and Mookie just passed him in OPS and WAR, but barely. Verdugo is 25, Betts is 28. There is still room for growth for Verdugo, but I suspect that Betts will be the better player moving forward. Betts supposedly didn't want to sign an extension or be here. That's just the rumors, but I agree that Covid-19 spooked him into signing an extension, that's worth 12/365 (17.5 this year). Verdugo is making $649,500 and then has 3 years of arbitration and then you add on Connor Wong and Jeter Downs and it's a very good trade for the Red Sox. Verdugo was a top 25 prospect in baseball. As a 23 year old he hit .294/.342/.475/.817 in the majors. Verdugo will be better than .297/.352/.461/.813. It's really hard to imagine getting much better value than what the Red Sox got back. They got a guy whose playing almost as good as Mookie for a fraction of the cost and years of control, plus a very good prospect in Jeter Downs. Mlb has Jeter Downs as the 40th best prospect in baseball. www.mlb.com/prospectsFrom 2015 to 2021 he's second to only Mike Trout in war and its not even really close. I don't think anyone would dispute that comment when the trade was made or heck even now. No doubt it's a very good trade for the Red Sox. I was looking at grading the GM making the trade. It's like the Chris Sale trade, you have to weigh the return versus what was given up. Maybe I'm mistaken. I see that Mookie was the WAR leader in 2020, 12th in 2019, 1st in 2018, 13th in 2017. Currently he's out of the top 50, but I suspect that'll change quickly. Honestly though, I see trading Mookie in 2020 as a net positive to the team. I don't believe they would have made the playoffs with him given their pitching woes and he would have hurt their draft positioning even further. The team traded Betts on February 11th and I wonder if they were aware of the very real possibility of Chris Sale being done for the season as a month later they announced he needed Tommy John surgery. Perhaps it would have made the Red Sox seem more desperate to sell knowing they had no chance to compete. Another forgotten aspect of this deal was trading away half of David Price's 32 million contract. Price, who sat out all of last year (so no one actually paid) and now back throwing in the bullpen for LA (he of the 5.59 ERA in 9.2 IP) and is returning from an injury. I don't really care about the Red Sox getting a pitcher back or not. It's not like they didn't try. Just get the best players available. The Red Sox had a void at 2B. I would rather an all-star 2B than a 2/3 starter just because they tried to fill a more pressing need (not to say Downs will be a perennial all-star or that's what they would have gotten for a starter). Also, just the way the game is being played today pitching seems much more easier to come by. Martin Perez - 4.01 ERA Eduardo Rodríguez - 3.82 ERA Nathan Eovaldi - 4.20 ERA (which this could be much lower, but he got to pitch behind some run support, also had a FIP of 2.05 before today's game). Nick Pivetta - 3.19 ERA Garrett Richards - 4.54 ERA (FIP of 4.00) Tanner Houck - 4.35 ERA (17.0 IP) Heck, Wade "No hit" Miley has a 2.00 ERA. Just seems like the way the game is being played these days finding starting pitching isn't pressing as it used to be. Going back to "time of trade", the Red Sox didn't really plan to compete in 2020. They had an elite player on an expiring contract who supposedly made it known he wanted to test the market and Henry supposedly had reservations on paying him $400+ million or whatever he might have gotten if COVID-19 never happened. The Dodgers got the best regular season player in 2020 and won a WS with Mookie having very good post season numbers (minus the NLCS). The Red Sox won the World Series with Chris Sale and had been very good for them in the regular season. The mistake was extending him before his contract ran out which is separate from the trade. They gave up a promising starter in Kopech who had a myriad of question marks around him and the top prospect in baseball in Moncada, but had red flags around his strike out numbers (I think Victor Diaz is out of baseball and Luis Basabe somehow got onto the Giants with unimpressive minor league numbers). Outside of a stellar 2019 he's been rather OK.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 30, 2021 11:35:53 GMT -5
Based on my understanding, the Red Sox tried to resign Betts and he never really negotiated with them. Then he signed pretty quickly at a pretty reasonable deal once he got to LA.
This idea that the Red Sox were cheap and decided not to sign Betts is just completely wrong, and thats before you factor in that it made more sense to rebuild from a team building perspective.
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Post by dyoungteach on May 30, 2021 19:25:38 GMT -5
Based on my understanding, the Red Sox tried to resign Betts and he never really negotiated with them. Then he signed pretty quickly at a pretty reasonable deal once he got to LA. This idea that the Red Sox were cheap and decided not to sign Betts is just completely wrong, and thats before you factor in that it made more sense to rebuild from a team building perspective. Reasonable was second largest contract in mlb history. Just saying that is exactly what he wanted. Red Sox didn’t offer that and didn’t seem willing to
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 30, 2021 20:04:09 GMT -5
Based on my understanding, the Red Sox tried to resign Betts and he never really negotiated with them. Then he signed pretty quickly at a pretty reasonable deal once he got to LA. This idea that the Red Sox were cheap and decided not to sign Betts is just completely wrong, and thats before you factor in that it made more sense to rebuild from a team building perspective. Reasonable was second largest contract in mlb history. Just saying that is exactly what he wanted. Red Sox didn’t offer that and didn’t seem willing to Based on what? Didn’t the Red Sox offer him 10/300 as a starting point and he never responded to that?
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Post by benzinger on May 30, 2021 22:37:18 GMT -5
Based on my understanding, the Red Sox tried to resign Betts and he never really negotiated with them. Then he signed pretty quickly at a pretty reasonable deal once he got to LA. This idea that the Red Sox were cheap and decided not to sign Betts is just completely wrong, and thats before you factor in that it made more sense to rebuild from a team building perspective. Reasonable was second largest contract in mlb history. Just saying that is exactly what he wanted. Red Sox didn’t offer that and didn’t seem willing to I’m glad the Red Sox didn’t give Mookie that deal. It’s a ridiculous contract and I don’t trust anyone for 12 years. The Red Sox did fine in that exchange. They were able to sign 4-5 guys for Mookie’s money and got Verdugo and Downs out of it, as well.
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Post by dyoungteach on May 30, 2021 22:40:50 GMT -5
Reasonable was second largest contract in mlb history. Just saying that is exactly what he wanted. Red Sox didn’t offer that and didn’t seem willing to Based on what? Didn’t the Red Sox offer him 10/300 as a starting point and he never responded to that? Based on the fact mookie betts obtained the largest contract in mlb history. Red Sox didn’t offer that!! They didn’t offer a contract that topped mike trout. ( in per year or overall). I’m not saying they should have or not.... but they didn’t!!! That’s the barameter mookie betts set for himself. THE BEST! And he got in with the dodgers
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Post by dyoungteach on May 30, 2021 22:48:31 GMT -5
Reasonable was second largest contract in mlb history. Just saying that is exactly what he wanted. Red Sox didn’t offer that and didn’t seem willing to I’m glad the Red Sox didn’t give Mookie that deal. It’s a ridiculous contract and I don’t trust anyone for 12 years. The Red Sox did fine in that exchange. They were able to sign 4-5 guys for Mookie’s money and got Verdugo and Downs out of it, as well. Not arguing that one bit. I agree personally. It will be interesting to see what Red Sox do over the years when another mookie betts comes through. Because there will be more. Just as there was pedros and Clemens and Ortiz before. And I believe the only reason Ortiz stayed a Red Sox is because he accepted contracts that were not record breaking overall. It seems to just be a Red Sox deal for whatever reason
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 30, 2021 23:45:28 GMT -5
Based on what? Didn’t the Red Sox offer him 10/300 as a starting point and he never responded to that? Based on the fact mookie betts obtained the largest contract in mlb history. Red Sox didn’t offer that!! They didn’t offer a contract that topped mike trout. ( in per year or overall). I’m not saying they should have or not.... but they didn’t!!! That’s the barameter mookie betts set for himself. THE BEST! And he got in with the dodgers That’s a very simplistic way of looking at it. He very clearly negotiated with the Dodgers and took the best offer he could get from them rather than hit free agency. Just a basic look at the facts tells you Mookie wanted to be in LA more than Boston.
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Post by dyoungteach on May 31, 2021 14:04:04 GMT -5
Based on the fact mookie betts obtained the largest contract in mlb history. Red Sox didn’t offer that!! They didn’t offer a contract that topped mike trout. ( in per year or overall). I’m not saying they should have or not.... but they didn’t!!! That’s the barameter mookie betts set for himself. THE BEST! And he got in with the dodgers That’s a very simplistic way of looking at it. He very clearly negotiated with the Dodgers and took the best offer he could get from them rather than hit free agency. Just a basic look at the facts tells you Mookie wanted to be in LA more than Boston. There is zero to show he negotiated anymore with dodgers than Red Sox. The fact is Red Sox has an offer that was 20% below that amount! Seems pretty simple to me. He was offered the top contract in game overall and said yes. He said all along it’s a business. Ie pay me. Dodgers paid him. Red Sox wanted to play the game and kinda pay him.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on May 31, 2021 16:57:23 GMT -5
That’s a very simplistic way of looking at it. He very clearly negotiated with the Dodgers and took the best offer he could get from them rather than hit free agency. Just a basic look at the facts tells you Mookie wanted to be in LA more than Boston. There is zero to show he negotiated anymore with dodgers than Red Sox. The fact is Red Sox has an offer that was 20% below that amount! Seems pretty simple to me. He was offered the top contract in game overall and said yes. He said all along it’s a business. Ie pay me. Dodgers paid him. Red Sox wanted to play the game and kinda pay him. Thats not how negotiations at that level work.
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Post by dyoungteach on May 31, 2021 18:57:38 GMT -5
There is zero to show he negotiated anymore with dodgers than Red Sox. The fact is Red Sox has an offer that was 20% below that amount! Seems pretty simple to me. He was offered the top contract in game overall and said yes. He said all along it’s a business. Ie pay me. Dodgers paid him. Red Sox wanted to play the game and kinda pay him. Thats not how negotiations at that level work. Actually I would say it’s exactly how negotiations went. He was traded to dodgers. Covid hit and dodgers still said ya know what we are going to offer you the top contract in the game and betts said yup. I’m in. I’m sure with some tweaks but it’s clear dodgers greatly valued betts. Red Sox valued him. Red Sox never offered him top contract in game. Dodgers did. If I’m wrong. Show me where I am....
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Post by dyoungteach on May 31, 2021 22:34:02 GMT -5
There is zero to show he negotiated anymore with dodgers than Red Sox. The fact is Red Sox has an offer that was 20% below that amount! Seems pretty simple to me. He was offered the top contract in game overall and said yes. He said all along it’s a business. Ie pay me. Dodgers paid him. Red Sox wanted to play the game and kinda pay him. I think the contract would be an indication that he negotiated with the Dodgers more. More to your point, Mookie was unwavering in his desire to hit free agency when he was with the Sox. He never did hit free agency, so even though the Dodgers gave him a record contract he may have left money on the table. If money was his only motivation then he should have hit free agency regardless. That he didn't implies he did have a preferred team and it wasn't the Red Sox. I’m not so sure I can agree with that. He got the highest contract in all of baseball!! Literally right in middle of pandemic that was shutting down the game. Plus he was on a World Series contending team. I’m not so sure what more there was to negotiate. He was in a place he can play playoff baseball, be the highest paid player, AND do this while the world quite literally was trying to figure out what was right and wrong and correct and good moving forward. There is one thing for sure the Red Sox didn’t offer him ( highest contract in the game). Hard to say he wouldn’t have preferred the Sox or not because they never offered him the best contract in the game as dodgers did. What we probably can agree on: Red Sox made their choice. Made best decision they could given their choices ( cutting payroll and they weren’t going to offer him that contract) and have moved on. It’s been good for them and like them I’m doing the same. See it however you want to see it.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 1, 2021 8:53:31 GMT -5
There is zero to show he negotiated anymore with dodgers than Red Sox. The fact is Red Sox has an offer that was 20% below that amount! Seems pretty simple to me. He was offered the top contract in game overall and said yes. He said all along it’s a business. Ie pay me. Dodgers paid him. Red Sox wanted to play the game and kinda pay him. I think the contract would be an indication that he negotiated with the Dodgers more. More to your point, Mookie was unwavering in his desire to hit free agency when he was with the Sox. He never did hit free agency, so even though the Dodgers gave him a record contract he may have left money on the table. If money was his only motivation then he should have hit free agency regardless. That he didn't implies he did have a preferred team and it wasn't the Red Sox. I think this gets painted as a "He didn't want to stay with the Sox under any circumstances" type of thing. In the GQ article he was frank about his willingness to stay in Boston. I think what gets missed a lot seems to be an obvious point. Mookie had a goal in mind and that goal was to exceed Trout's contract. So the Sox offer him 10 years $300 million and of course it's not in the ballpark and of course he counters with $420 million. What's the midpoint of those two figures? $360 million. Not a coincidence. Well, the Sox weren't going to go there. But say they did. My guess is that Mookie still says, "I'm going to play out my season first", but thinks "if that offer is still there after the season and nobody tops it, then I'm going to be a Red Sox for life." Say the Dodgers come in after the season and swoop in with a higher figure then Mookie goes to LA, but if the Dodgers don't swoop and the Sox have that $365 million figure or in that ballpark after he hits free agency, then he stays with the Sox. I think that's how he would have stayed with the Sox. Reach free agency and have the Sox offering him the Trout contract he's looking for with nobody else outbidding the Sox. Cold and calculating? Sure. But he always intended to get what he felt his worth was. And the Trout contract was always the target. As it was he got traded to the Dodgers, the pandemic hit, and the Dodgers were offering Trout money, money he knew the Sox wouldn't give him, and he knew the money wasn't going to be flush from the free agent market given the pandemic situation so he jumps at the Dodgers offer. I'm pretty sure if the Dodgers told Mookie, "We'll give you $300 million over 10 years", he would have said, "thanks but no thanks, I'll go to free agency and see what I get there." But that's not what happened, and the Dodgers certainly were not NOT going to make a Trout like offer. They invested Alex Verdugo, Jeter Downs and Connor Wong. They know that one year of Mookie wouldn't be worth that package and that they had to retain him and they knew it would take a Trout-like offer, so that's what they did. It was always going to be Trout money that Betts was looking for. Either you offer it or you don't. Whether you SHOULD offer it or not is entirely a different subject to debate about. If Mookie's injuries become more commonplace and he struggles, then Bloom did a great thing. If Mookie starts feeling better and gives you at least another half dozen Mookie seasons and some more Championships along the way, then you miss out on a generational HOF player. I suspects it will be somewhere in the middle. The Dodgers already have one championship which Mookie was a big factor in, and for the window the Sox are shooting for, 2024 - 2029, then Verdugo and company fit that better and they have the money to get a premier free agent should they need to, so you do see it from both sides. And that's why it's a fascinating trade.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 22, 2022 22:30:32 GMT -5
<<Mar 22, 2022 17:28:32 GMT -7 yaz1971 said:
Mookie Betts was a one year $27,000,000 rental into addition to $48,000,000 for David Price. The Red Sox got a starting outfielder with six years of controllability. IMO even if Downs and Wong are busts, the Red Sox came out just fine.>> (copied from the Spring Training 2022 thread)
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This is a good perspective but unless he improves in 2022, Verdugo is more of a strong-side platoon OF (138/48 wRC+ vs. R/L in 2021) with an inconsistent glove than a "starting OF." I love his energy and his performance in the clutch but how Verdugo performs is not really going to decide who "won" that trade... unless he turns into an affordable All-Star for the next few years. The ability to reset the CBT while only sacrificing a bad covid season (and then being able to draft Mayer) was the much larger end.
And let's face it: Mookie had no intention of re-signing in Boston...
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Mar 22, 2022 22:54:18 GMT -5
NO. LET THIS THREAD DIE
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Mar 22, 2022 23:22:47 GMT -5
Sheesh, I posted it here because I didn't want to get yelled at for posting it in the other thread...
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Post by keninten on Mar 23, 2022 0:21:21 GMT -5
Sheesh, I posted it here because I didn't want to get yelled at for posting it in the other thread... Just stop posting
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Post by pedroelgrande on Mar 23, 2022 0:27:43 GMT -5
At least Trey Ball has been forgotten.
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 23, 2022 1:27:10 GMT -5
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mobaz
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Post by mobaz on Mar 23, 2022 4:39:35 GMT -5
Mookie was traded AGAIN?
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Post by benzinger on Mar 23, 2022 8:44:54 GMT -5
Sheesh, I posted it here because I didn't want to get yelled at for posting it in the other thread... REMINDER: This is a thread about the Mookie Betts trade!!11! Oh wait....
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