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Post by caseytins on Feb 5, 2020 20:44:59 GMT -5
It better not be Ryan Weber, unless he is just an opener. I voted for the opener. This is going to be a lot of trial and error. I'm actually looking forward to it.
I actually think Houck will be the opener if you want to be more specific about the poll:
Sale ERod Eovaldi Perez Houck..
Between Graterol and Darwinzon, I would like them to potentially piggyback Houck.
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Post by fenwaymabe on Feb 6, 2020 15:47:03 GMT -5
How about someone like Taijuan Walker, or Aaron Sanchez. They are both really high upside guys with a checkered injury history, so the price should be affordable. Sanchez in particular seemed to find something in Houston before he succumbed to yet another injury. If Sale can be healthy and E-rod can build on his strong 2019 and Evo can rely on his off speed stuff more instead of trying to blow it by everyone, we have the makings of a solid top 3. I'm a little puzzled by the Perez signing if only because I'm not sure how he handles being in the A.L. East. Plus, if someone such as Walker or Sanchez were actually able to stay healthy, they would be an interesting piece to flip at the deadline if the Sox aren't clearly in the wildcard hunt.
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Feb 6, 2020 16:15:15 GMT -5
I've seen Sanchez a lot listed on here. He had capsule surgery on his right shoulder in August. Expected time of recovery 12-14 months per most articles.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,873
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Post by cdj on Feb 6, 2020 16:21:23 GMT -5
Fully expecting 150 innings of 3.50 ball from Weber now that everybody has publicly questioned him (including myself)
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Post by manfred on Feb 6, 2020 16:38:02 GMT -5
I say you may as well throw Weber. He is sunk cost in a sunk year. Then you can rotate some guys who need a look later, like Houck.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 6, 2020 18:24:31 GMT -5
I say you may as well throw Weber. He is sunk cost in a sunk year. Then you can rotate some guys who need a look later, like Houck. Sunk cost? He's making the minimum and might not make the team. You make it sound like he's making 15 million.
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Post by manfred on Feb 6, 2020 19:34:05 GMT -5
I say you may as well throw Weber. He is sunk cost in a sunk year. Then you can rotate some guys who need a look later, like Houck. Sunk cost? He's making the minimum and might not make the team. You make it sound like he's making 15 million. I was half kidding. I mean, no reason to sign another marginal arm in a season that isn’t going anywhere. To that degree, the whole team is sunk cost.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 6, 2020 21:44:30 GMT -5
If the season began tomorrow (with the Betts trade going through), the 2020 Red Sox would be better on paper than the 2013 Red Sox. People forget how bad that team should've been. It was Ortiz, Lester, and like 15 guys who had the best seasons of their career by enormous margins.
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Post by manfred on Feb 6, 2020 21:57:35 GMT -5
If the season began tomorrow (with the Betts trade going through), the 2020 Red Sox would be better on paper than the 2013 Red Sox. People forget how bad that team should've been. It was Ortiz, Lester, and like 15 guys who had the best seasons of their career by enormous margins. Well, the Yankees were starting the corpses of Ichiro and Travis Hafner that year and were generally dismal. I suspect the Sox will face stiffer competition in the East this year.
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Post by huskies15 on Feb 7, 2020 9:28:50 GMT -5
I would sign Sanchez to a 2 year deal with low cost knowing that this year is a recovery year. Similar to what the Twins did with Pineda. McHugh would make a lot of sense for this year.
The 5th spot in the rotation is going to be a revolving door of openers and middling arms it seems.
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 7, 2020 14:34:07 GMT -5
I feel like this would be the perfect time to push our farm system a little bit. It's not often that the Redsox have low expectations, and are technically in a rebuild. So that being said it would be great to utilize any and all young arms to see what we have. Graterol I am super excited about, but do not want to rush him. Players I would test at #5 would be Kyle Hart, Tanner Houck, Bryan Mata, and above all Darwinzon Hernandez. I know they really like him in the bullpen, but it can't really hurt to give him 15 starts or so. The big part of this is to allow them to start games without the threat of being sent down right away. We may find that they settle in after the 3rd or 4th start, and offer more value than expected. If it doesn't work out then fine, but we know what we have. Particularly we can make a decision about Darwinzon, and he will be able to concentrate on one thing (Either know SP is his spot or focus full time RP here out). I think that Martin Perez will be on a short leash as well so we may be able to let one of the young guys throw, and sign an upside guy to fill #4 (Sanchez, Harvey, Walker etc....anyone is better than perez).
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Feb 7, 2020 14:56:47 GMT -5
I feel like this would be the perfect time to push our farm system a little bit. It's not often that the Redsox have low expectations, and are technically in a rebuild. So that being said it would be great to utilize any and all young arms to see what we have. Graterol I am super excited about, but do not want to rush him. Players I would test at #5 would be Kyle Hart, Tanner Houck, Bryan Mata, and above all Darwinzon Hernandez. I know they really like him in the bullpen, but it can't really hurt to give him 15 starts or so. The big part of this is to allow them to start games without the threat of being sent down right away. We may find that they settle in after the 3rd or 4th start, and offer more value than expected. If it doesn't work out then fine, but we know what we have. Particularly we can make a decision about Darwinzon, and he will be able to concentrate on one thing (Either know SP is his spot or focus full time RP here out). I think that Martin Perez will be on a short leash as well so we may be able to let one of the young guys throw, and sign an upside guy to fill #4 (Sanchez, Harvey, Walker etc....anyone is better than perez). Expectations for the big league team shouldn't have anything to do with how aggressively you handle prospects. If they're not ready, they're not ready. I am not in favor of messing with their development track for arbitrary big league playing time.
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 7, 2020 15:05:09 GMT -5
I feel like this would be the perfect time to push our farm system a little bit. It's not often that the Redsox have low expectations, and are technically in a rebuild. So that being said it would be great to utilize any and all young arms to see what we have. Graterol I am super excited about, but do not want to rush him. Players I would test at #5 would be Kyle Hart, Tanner Houck, Bryan Mata, and above all Darwinzon Hernandez. I know they really like him in the bullpen, but it can't really hurt to give him 15 starts or so. The big part of this is to allow them to start games without the threat of being sent down right away. We may find that they settle in after the 3rd or 4th start, and offer more value than expected. If it doesn't work out then fine, but we know what we have. Particularly we can make a decision about Darwinzon, and he will be able to concentrate on one thing (Either know SP is his spot or focus full time RP here out). I think that Martin Perez will be on a short leash as well so we may be able to let one of the young guys throw, and sign an upside guy to fill #4 (Sanchez, Harvey, Walker etc....anyone is better than perez). Expectations for the big league team shouldn't have anything to do with how aggressively you handle prospects. If they're not ready, they're not ready. I am not in favor of messing with their development track for arbitrary big league playing time. I agree with you. What I mean is when a club has such high expectations a lot of teams put a hold on prospects. So I am 100% with you on being overaggressive. Using 2018 Sox for example, they built a win now lineup and rotation top to bottom. When they are pushing that hard to win it is less likely they would take a chance on a prospect unless desperate. This year, due to lower expectation, it allows them more freedom to test these guys out. There are a lot of teams with prospects ready, but wont take the chance because of the risk. The guys I listed may be too far off, and in that case leave them be. I only think that the guys that are waiting for an opening (mlb roster) have that chance now.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,873
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 16:05:16 GMT -5
I feel like this would be the perfect time to push our farm system a little bit. It's not often that the Redsox have low expectations, and are technically in a rebuild. So that being said it would be great to utilize any and all young arms to see what we have. Graterol I am super excited about, but do not want to rush him. Players I would test at #5 would be Kyle Hart, Tanner Houck, Bryan Mata, and above all Darwinzon Hernandez. I know they really like him in the bullpen, but it can't really hurt to give him 15 starts or so. The big part of this is to allow them to start games without the threat of being sent down right away. We may find that they settle in after the 3rd or 4th start, and offer more value than expected. If it doesn't work out then fine, but we know what we have. Particularly we can make a decision about Darwinzon, and he will be able to concentrate on one thing (Either know SP is his spot or focus full time RP here out). I think that Martin Perez will be on a short leash as well so we may be able to let one of the young guys throw, and sign an upside guy to fill #4 (Sanchez, Harvey, Walker etc....anyone is better than perez). Literally none of the 3 guys you listed are better than Perez. Sanchez is hurt, Walker is sitting mid 85-88. MAYBE he’s worth a flier as he continues to build strength Matt Harvey?? My man we live in 2020
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Post by manfred on Feb 7, 2020 17:01:11 GMT -5
I feel like this would be the perfect time to push our farm system a little bit. It's not often that the Redsox have low expectations, and are technically in a rebuild. So that being said it would be great to utilize any and all young arms to see what we have. Graterol I am super excited about, but do not want to rush him. Players I would test at #5 would be Kyle Hart, Tanner Houck, Bryan Mata, and above all Darwinzon Hernandez. I know they really like him in the bullpen, but it can't really hurt to give him 15 starts or so. The big part of this is to allow them to start games without the threat of being sent down right away. We may find that they settle in after the 3rd or 4th start, and offer more value than expected. If it doesn't work out then fine, but we know what we have. Particularly we can make a decision about Darwinzon, and he will be able to concentrate on one thing (Either know SP is his spot or focus full time RP here out). I think that Martin Perez will be on a short leash as well so we may be able to let one of the young guys throw, and sign an upside guy to fill #4 (Sanchez, Harvey, Walker etc....anyone is better than perez). Literally none of the 3 guys you listed are better than Perez. Sanchez is hurt, Walker is sitting mid 85-88. MAYBE he’s worth a flier as he continues to build strength Matt Harvey?? My man we live in 2020 In fairness, Perez is bad. He was replacement last year, terrible the year before, and two years ago he had his only 2+ WAR season. He is a consistent ~1.4 WHIP guy even at his best. And he is not exactly an innings eater. I am hardly advocating replacing one replacement guy with another (a turd in hand is better than two on the lawn?), but I actually think if Walker is healthy he has a chance at being better this year than Perez. Harvey is toast, though. Totally agree there. Edit: also interesting is that baseball reference has a far more pessimistic projection than steamer, which is ok, but not great. Perez’s numbers last year are discouraging to me.... he had an ok first half and sucked in the second half. Why project him to return to a form he hasn’t had in years that was an outlier in his overall career?
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 7, 2020 18:17:49 GMT -5
I feel like this would be the perfect time to push our farm system a little bit. It's not often that the Redsox have low expectations, and are technically in a rebuild. So that being said it would be great to utilize any and all young arms to see what we have. Graterol I am super excited about, but do not want to rush him. Players I would test at #5 would be Kyle Hart, Tanner Houck, Bryan Mata, and above all Darwinzon Hernandez. I know they really like him in the bullpen, but it can't really hurt to give him 15 starts or so. The big part of this is to allow them to start games without the threat of being sent down right away. We may find that they settle in after the 3rd or 4th start, and offer more value than expected. If it doesn't work out then fine, but we know what we have. Particularly we can make a decision about Darwinzon, and he will be able to concentrate on one thing (Either know SP is his spot or focus full time RP here out). I think that Martin Perez will be on a short leash as well so we may be able to let one of the young guys throw, and sign an upside guy to fill #4 (Sanchez, Harvey, Walker etc....anyone is better than perez). I feel like this would be the perfect time to save years of control for years that matter more.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,873
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 18:29:20 GMT -5
Literally none of the 3 guys you listed are better than Perez. Sanchez is hurt, Walker is sitting mid 85-88. MAYBE he’s worth a flier as he continues to build strength Matt Harvey?? My man we live in 2020 In fairness, Perez is bad. He was replacement last year, terrible the year before, and two years ago he had his only 2+ WAR season. He is a consistent ~1.4 WHIP guy even at his best. And he is not exactly an innings eater. I am hardly advocating replacing one replacement guy with another (a turd in hand is better than two on the lawn?), but I actually think if Walker is healthy he has a chance at being better this year than Perez. Harvey is toast, though. Totally agree there. Edit: also interesting is that baseball reference has a far more pessimistic projection than steamer, which is ok, but not great. Perez’s numbers last year are discouraging to me.... he had an ok first half and sucked in the second half. Why project him to return to a form he hasn’t had in years that was an outlier in his overall career? I think they’re gonna have him pitch off of his new cutter more. Looked great at the start of last year but faded. Plus his velo is up iirc Idk he’s got a way better chance of being an average major league starter than any of those 3 guys next year though
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 7, 2020 19:42:56 GMT -5
I feel like this would be the perfect time to push our farm system a little bit. It's not often that the Redsox have low expectations, and are technically in a rebuild. So that being said it would be great to utilize any and all young arms to see what we have. Graterol I am super excited about, but do not want to rush him. Players I would test at #5 would be Kyle Hart, Tanner Houck, Bryan Mata, and above all Darwinzon Hernandez. I know they really like him in the bullpen, but it can't really hurt to give him 15 starts or so. The big part of this is to allow them to start games without the threat of being sent down right away. We may find that they settle in after the 3rd or 4th start, and offer more value than expected. If it doesn't work out then fine, but we know what we have. Particularly we can make a decision about Darwinzon, and he will be able to concentrate on one thing (Either know SP is his spot or focus full time RP here out). I think that Martin Perez will be on a short leash as well so we may be able to let one of the young guys throw, and sign an upside guy to fill #4 (Sanchez, Harvey, Walker etc....anyone is better than perez). Literally none of the 3 guys you listed are better than Perez. Sanchez is hurt, Walker is sitting mid 85-88. MAYBE he’s worth a flier as he continues to build strength Matt Harvey?? My man we live in 2020 The Matt Harvey comment made me laugh so hard. Such a great point in so few words. When I listed those guys it was more just the first couple that came to mind. Ultimately, I am saying that there are FA guys with more upside. Who knows if Walker can regain form or something, but it would offer a buy low chance. I think Perez is what he is. Id like Brian Johnson better over him. Maybe he does have a few new tricks up his sleeve and will surprise us. Charlie Morton came on late randomly so who knows. In no way am I expecting anything like him...just an old dog learning new tricks scenario. Collin McHugh offers some upside as well.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 13,873
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Post by cdj on Feb 7, 2020 19:47:22 GMT -5
Literally none of the 3 guys you listed are better than Perez. Sanchez is hurt, Walker is sitting mid 85-88. MAYBE he’s worth a flier as he continues to build strength Matt Harvey?? My man we live in 2020 The Matt Harvey comment made me laugh so hard. Such a great point in so few words. When I listed those guys it was more just the first couple that came to mind. Ultimately, I am saying that there are FA guys with more upside. Who knows if Walker can regain form or something, but it would offer a buy low chance. I think Perez is what he is. Id like Brian Johnson better over him. Maybe he does have a few new tricks up his sleeve and will surprise us. Charlie Morton came on late randomly so who knows. In no way am I expecting anything like him...just an old dog learning new tricks scenario. Collin McHugh offers some upside as well. I’m definitely with you and would like to see a couple of those reclamation guys added. I wouldn’t count on them but if you throw enough stuff at the wall some of it will stick!
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 7, 2020 19:47:50 GMT -5
I feel like this would be the perfect time to push our farm system a little bit. It's not often that the Redsox have low expectations, and are technically in a rebuild. So that being said it would be great to utilize any and all young arms to see what we have. Graterol I am super excited about, but do not want to rush him. Players I would test at #5 would be Kyle Hart, Tanner Houck, Bryan Mata, and above all Darwinzon Hernandez. I know they really like him in the bullpen, but it can't really hurt to give him 15 starts or so. The big part of this is to allow them to start games without the threat of being sent down right away. We may find that they settle in after the 3rd or 4th start, and offer more value than expected. If it doesn't work out then fine, but we know what we have. Particularly we can make a decision about Darwinzon, and he will be able to concentrate on one thing (Either know SP is his spot or focus full time RP here out). I think that Martin Perez will be on a short leash as well so we may be able to let one of the young guys throw, and sign an upside guy to fill #4 (Sanchez, Harvey, Walker etc....anyone is better than perez). I feel like this would be the perfect time to save years of control for years that matter more. I didn't think about the years of control situation. I guess my Darwinzon comment still applies where he is up anyways, but the others maybe not. However, I wouldn't be overly concerned with a player like Kyle Hart burning an option. His upside is limited so no harm no foul. Hopefully he makes me eat my words, but we shall see. I can't remember which year it was, but I remember the sox playing a lot of rookies one season (maybe when Xander was called up?), and it worked out fantastic. I want to say 2013, but Ill have to look later.
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Post by Ryanod1 on Feb 8, 2020 1:13:38 GMT -5
The Matt Harvey comment made me laugh so hard. Such a great point in so few words. When I listed those guys it was more just the first couple that came to mind. Ultimately, I am saying that there are FA guys with more upside. Who knows if Walker can regain form or something, but it would offer a buy low chance. I think Perez is what he is. Id like Brian Johnson better over him. Maybe he does have a few new tricks up his sleeve and will surprise us. Charlie Morton came on late randomly so who knows. In no way am I expecting anything like him...just an old dog learning new tricks scenario. Collin McHugh offers some upside as well. I’m definitely with you and would like to see a couple of those reclamation guys added. I wouldn’t count on them but if you throw enough stuff at the wall some of it will stick! Haha exactly! I guess as they say...even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then haha
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Post by soxcentral on Feb 10, 2020 8:45:24 GMT -5
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 10, 2020 8:57:40 GMT -5
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Post by dmaineah on Feb 10, 2020 9:05:15 GMT -5
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 10, 2020 9:05:29 GMT -5
He's obviously not moving the needle on this specific team which probably needs to find something in the neighborhood of 400 decent innings somewhere, but I honestly think Collin McHugh is average in general and possibly better than that with a normal baseball. And there's a chance he's toast, but this is the right team to give a chance to someone who might be toast. He's the only one on that list I'd give an MLB deal to without much hesitation.
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