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MLB plotting playoff expansion — with reality TV twist
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 10, 2020 21:39:19 GMT -5
Would you really suggest baseball go back to that system? Yeah, it's a more "true" result and I guess therefore more satisfying to a handful of baseball nerds, but is it good for the game? I don't see how. I'll leave someone else to figure out the ideal slotting system/etc, but in general, an expanded playoff structure with more levels of slotting yields more meaningful regular season games. Baseball needs that. If you thought trading Betts was a bad/financially driven decision now, just wait until they let more teams into the playoffs. Teams will have even more incentive to trade a star like Betts if they can settle for a high-80s win team and still grab a playoff spot....And more marginal teams will have a reason to trade for him. That's all (don't call it a) salary cap stuff anyway, adding more playoff teams is a secondary factor at best and probably not even that.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Feb 10, 2020 21:40:20 GMT -5
Don't get caught up on the "reality tv" headline - this is as old school as it gets. Calling out your opponent, your squad against their squad, it's literally how every kid grows up playing sports. Fans complain about how players get along too well now and the hatred/competitiveness isn't there. An easy way to spark bad blood is to tell a team "we think you are the easiest opponent". It attracts attention to each series, generates free publicity for the league, helps alert the casual fans the playoffs are starting, and rewards the better teams from the regular season. The best team should get the advantage of choosing their opponent. The 2018 path through the Yankees and Astros was epic, but should the 108 win Red Sox have been forced to play the 100 win Yankees while the lesser Astros got the 91 win Indians? This process will be more fair, less arbitrary, and generates attention for the MLB playoffs. It's not like you have to watch the selection show, but I could easily see it being must watch tv, as coaches/executives or players are always so careful to not insult their opponents. It'll be fun to see them sweat and try to rationalize why choosing that team over others wasn't actually an insult.Insincere diplomatic language that aims to minimize conflict. Thrilling. It's not meant for people who post about baseball on Internet forums though. It's meant to attract interest from people who aren't currently watching the MLB playoffs. It's not going to fix all their issues, but the MLB needs to market their game better, and this is an easy and free way to attract some attention. If it's not your cup of tea don't watch, the selection results will be posted to Twitter instantly. I'd gladly trade the Red Sox Truck Day parade float for this.
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 10, 2020 23:39:49 GMT -5
Expansion is coming in MLB. It's not a matter of if, but when at this point. When this happens, playoff expansion is also necessary. This is just a concept that they're going to negotiate in 2022 and try to get more ideas from every angle to make the playoffs as exciting as possible. Don't know why every one is losing their minds. I doubt all of these ideas in this article is going to happen.
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 10, 2020 23:48:28 GMT -5
Yeah, that’s the downside. Also that it eliminates some of the incentive to win your division, and along with it some of the traditional “division race” drama. On the other hand, I loved watching the Nationals win, so I wouldn’t be averse to a system that brings us more of that kind of story. I'm always of the opinion that if the best (or almost best) team didn't win, there's something wrong with the playoff structure. But they're eventually going to make me stop watching because it's all about the people with zero attention span who will never pay or support a team that isn't winning. Screw everyone else. Baseball will take that trade of more casual fans/more revenue/more entertaining product on the field come playoff time. Getting more casual fans to watch it is exactly what brings in more revenue. The diehards will always be there, despite them not agreeing with the way they think baseball should be played. I welcome any revenue making ideas Mafred has, even the crappy ones because that's what's going to ensure that baseball doesn't become a regional or dying sport in my lifetime and that's the only thing that's important in my eyes. I'll never stop watching the greatest game on earth, baseball.
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 11, 2020 0:05:29 GMT -5
It worked for almost 100 years when there was only the World Series. The first round was 154 games. Would you really suggest baseball go back to that system? Yeah, it's a more "true" result and I guess therefore more satisfying to a handful of baseball nerds, but is it good for the game? I don't see how. Let's go back to the old system where 95+ win teams miss the playoffs all the time (1978 says hello with their 99 win record). That's exactly how you drive fans away.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 11, 2020 0:32:21 GMT -5
LOVE the idea of the best team picking their opponent.
Loathe the idea of expanding the playoff teams.
The NBA regular season is a complete joke, do you really want that?
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 11, 2020 0:40:44 GMT -5
LOVE the idea of the best team picking their opponent. Loathe the idea of expanding the playoff teams. The NBA regular season is a complete joke, do you really want that? If the League is planning on adding more teams, how else do you combat that? The NBA is a casual sport by nature. They also have a parity problem that they can't and will not ever overcome. If you don't have a collection of great talent or if you don't have a top 10 player in the league, you don't really stand a chance. Baseball is almost the exact opposite of that. Mike Trout, the best player in baseball, hasn't made the playoffs since 2012. The Leagues aren't comparable.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 11, 2020 0:48:20 GMT -5
LOVE the idea of the best team picking their opponent. Loathe the idea of expanding the playoff teams. The NBA regular season is a complete joke, do you really want that? If the League is planning on adding more teams, how else do you combat that? The NBA is a casual sport by nature. They also have a parity problem that they can't and will not ever overcome. If you don't have a collection of great talent or if you don't have a top 10 player in the league, you don't really stand a chance. Baseball is almost the exact opposite of that. Mike Trout, the best player in baseball, hasn't made the playoffs since 2012. The Leagues aren't comparable. I get that. They're exact opposites. I just meant that everyone makes it in. I guess it's fine if you offset it with more teams.
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Post by baseballlifer34 on Feb 11, 2020 0:52:08 GMT -5
If the League is planning on adding more teams, how else do you combat that? The NBA is a casual sport by nature. They also have a parity problem that they can't and will not ever overcome. If you don't have a collection of great talent or if you don't have a top 10 player in the league, you don't really stand a chance. Baseball is almost the exact opposite of that. Mike Trout, the best player in baseball, hasn't made the playoffs since 2012. The Leagues aren't comparable. I get that. They're exact opposites. I just meant that everyone makes it in. I guess it's fine if you offset it with more teams. That's part of the plan. It'll take a decade, but expanded playoff teams will mean expansion. Manfred has been aiming for that for years. Right now Tampa Bay is trying to figure out how they're going to have 41 home games in Tampa Bay, and 41 home games in Montreal. That probably won't work, so Manfred and the league have to work on moving that team to Montreal most likely/getting that whole situation figured out.
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Post by dyoungteach on Feb 11, 2020 2:41:21 GMT -5
Reading the new idea and some of the responses reminds me of how some hate change. I look at this as does it attempt to solve some issues in baseball at this time? Or does it create new issues?
It seems it attempts to solve tanking by better teams at end of season and gives incentive for teams to WIN period. How’s that a bad thing?? It also creates a new revenue stream. ( don’t think for a second that playoff TV contracts won’t go up). Also not a bad thing.
Someone brought up balanced schedules which is something that will need to be addressed. But otherwise adding 2 teams to playoffs draws more fans to the game, gives more variability to whom mighty win, creates more incentive to actually win, and will add money to the game. Give me a downside other than it’s been done this way for so long I don’t like this garbage?? Winning your division is still important because you get home field advantage in playoffs and can pick who you play. So help me understand why it’s garbage or a bad idea? Just a huge baseball fans input and it’s interesting to see what players union says
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 11, 2020 7:22:57 GMT -5
I'm always of the opinion that if the best (or almost best) team didn't win, there's something wrong with the playoff structure. But they're eventually going to make me stop watching because it's all about the people with zero attention span who will never pay or support a team that isn't winning. Screw everyone else. Baseball will take that trade of more casual fans/more revenue/more entertaining product on the field come playoff time. Getting more casual fans to watch it is exactly what brings in more revenue. The diehards will always be there, despite them not agreeing with the way they think baseball should be played. I welcome any revenue making ideas Mafred has, even the crappy ones because that's what's going to ensure that baseball doesn't become a regional or dying sport in my lifetime and that's the only thing that's important in my eyes. I'll never stop watching the greatest game on earth, baseball. No, the diehards will not always be there. I quit the NHL, I've quit MLB before.
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on Feb 11, 2020 8:36:18 GMT -5
Baseball will take that trade of more casual fans/more revenue/more entertaining product on the field come playoff time. Getting more casual fans to watch it is exactly what brings in more revenue. The diehards will always be there, despite them not agreeing with the way they think baseball should be played. I welcome any revenue making ideas Mafred has, even the crappy ones because that's what's going to ensure that baseball doesn't become a regional or dying sport in my lifetime and that's the only thing that's important in my eyes. I'll never stop watching the greatest game on earth, baseball. No, the diehards will not always be there. I quit the NHL, I've quit MLB before.Kind of a contradictory sentence there...
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 11, 2020 8:39:06 GMT -5
No, the diehards will not always be there. I quit the NHL, I've quit MLB before. Do you not enjoy postseason baseball?
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mobaz
Veteran
Posts: 2,753
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Post by mobaz on Feb 11, 2020 8:48:50 GMT -5
No, the diehards will not always be there. I quit the NHL, I've quit MLB before. Do you not enjoy postseason baseball? If the Sox aren't in it, I barely watch. Usually a few partial WS games. My local team (DC Area) were in this year and I fell asleep to 3 games probably.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,814
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Post by wcp3 on Feb 11, 2020 8:54:15 GMT -5
LOVE the idea of the best team picking their opponent. Loathe the idea of expanding the playoff teams. The NBA regular season is a complete joke, do you really want that? Say what you want about the NBA regular season (and personally, I wish they’d trim it by 10-20 games), but the league’s long-term future is far more stable than the MLB’s. The playoffs have never really been the problem - the outrageously long regular seasons and pace of play are what seems to be the issue among younger demographics. Well, that and the fact that the bozos in charge make it really hard for people to watch highlights of the league’s best players since they feel they need to own every second of their content. Manfred and his associates seem to think half measures and gimmicky changes to the playoff format will fix everything. Instead, they should be making real changes like enforcing the pitcher shot clock and using technology in an intelligent manner.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 11, 2020 9:07:49 GMT -5
"Rob, one of the league's richest teams just salary dumped the best player they developed in 40 years, fans are furious, how can we fix this?" "I dunno, maybe we could find a way for them to make the playoffs when they go 82-80!"
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 11, 2020 9:11:29 GMT -5
"Rob, one of the league's richest teams just salary dumped the best player they developed in 40 years, fans are furious, how can we fix this?" "I dunno, maybe we could find a way for them to make the playoffs when they go 82-80!" The way this is headed, they could make the playoffs going 62-100. I mean things are getting very watered down.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 11, 2020 9:42:19 GMT -5
The NBA regular season is a complete joke, do you really want that? It won't ever be like that, because the sports are fundamentally different. You know who's overwhelmingly likely to be in the NBA championship before they play the first regular season game. People weren't giving the Nats a real shot at the World Series even after they won NLDS! The NBA regular season doesn't matter that much because the seeding doesn't matter that much and most of the teams don't have a chance anyway. In baseball, seeding potentially can be a big deal, and if it is, that creates more meaningful races and games during the regular season. The bottom line is that baseball has never had to compete harder for the attention of its fans, and fans pay attention when there's something to play for. Expanded playoffs gives more teams more things to play for.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Feb 11, 2020 9:45:55 GMT -5
"Rob, one of the league's richest teams just salary dumped the best player they developed in 40 years, fans are furious, how can we fix this?" "I dunno, maybe we could find a way for them to make the playoffs when they go 82-80!" Your World Champion 2006 Cardinals won 83 regular season games and the world didn't spin off its axis.
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 11, 2020 10:01:43 GMT -5
So did the 1987 Twins, and that pre-dated the wild card.
The balance between the playoffs being fun and not making the regular season feel like a waste of time is important. Mediocre teams sneaking in and peaking at the right time every so often is cool, especially when you have fun stuff like Albert Pujols hitting a baseball so hard you can see Brad Lidge's soul depart his body in real time. Every team who is above .500 making the playoffs pretty much every year? Cockamamie seeding schemes? Eh.
The issue here is that it's fixing something that isn't one of the problems. This doesn't help Mookie Betts stay on the Red Sox. This doesn't help playoff games take less than four hours. This certainly doesn't help the insane anti-streaming policies, which locks out the way most people in 2020 would choose to watch baseball. They're not trying to fix problems, they're just trying to appeal to The Kids by Being Zany. This is Poochie.
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On a slightly related note, as a basketball fan I'd like to draw a distinction. The reason more teams making the playoffs in basketball works is because usually the best team wins a basketball game, so the playoff structure rewards excellence in a way that baseball can't. The Orioles would beat the Dodgers at least 25% of the time, which means they'd win a seven-game series like 12% of the time. That makes individual upsets in basketball exciting in a way that they really can't be in baseball. You can have a 42-40 team make the playoffs because they're probably not going to beat a great team. And if they do, it's probably really, really, really wild in a way that baseball just isn't from game to game.
EDIT: My timing was a little off, in that the Pujols-Lidge soultheft was in the 2005 playoffs, when the Cardinals failed to win in the end. My point stands.
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Post by cyaz8 on Feb 11, 2020 10:34:13 GMT -5
Rob Manfred needs to go. I never liked his ideas (if happens) like eliminate extra inning by putting player on 2B without getting at bat in 10th inning, placed 30 seconds countdown in every pitch, eliminate mount visits from unlimited to this x times, make pitching changes so often due to awful start/reliever work, RH/LH specialist (from getting one out only to required 3 batters as minimum), adding new playoff formats and so forth. He's not true baseball fan at heart and needs go to bed early and not to worry about watching long game between Red Sox and Yankees(always). I'm old school fan.
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Post by Smittyw on Feb 11, 2020 10:50:20 GMT -5
Help, police, I'd like to report a murder.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 11, 2020 10:58:15 GMT -5
Baseball is trying it’s hardest to to become a gimmick.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 11, 2020 11:39:23 GMT -5
No, the diehards will not always be there. I quit the NHL, I've quit MLB before. Kind of a contradictory sentence there... I didn't really come back to MLB until I quit the NHL. I can and will find something else to do with my time and money when I can't handle it anymore.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 11, 2020 11:42:48 GMT -5
No, the diehards will not always be there. I quit the NHL, I've quit MLB before. Do you not enjoy postseason baseball? Not enough that I can get over a 70 win team ruining the season of a 100+ win team because of seeing eye singles and bloop doubles. You complain about teams not spending money now, just wait for when there is no point in even trying that hard. Hell, who needs Mookie Betts with a playoff structure like that?
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