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2020 Batting Order Construction
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Post by caseytins on Feb 12, 2020 20:32:50 GMT -5
Assuming that there are no additional signings, what do you think the preferred lineup should be? I like the signing of Pillar and think that he will be in a steady rotation in the OF to balance out the left-handed heavy OF and provide rest/rotation for the OF. Without putting a ton of thought into it, this is my regular lineup versus RH pitching:
1 - Andrew Benintendi (LF)
2 - Xander Bogaerts (SS)
3 - Rafael Devers (3B)
4 - JD Martinez (DH)
5 - Alex Verdugo (RF)
6 - Christian Vazquez (C)
7 - Mitch Moreland (1B)
8 - JBJ (CF)
9 - Jose Peraza (2B)
Versus LH pitching/secondary lineup:
1 - Kevin Pillar (CF)
2 - Xander Bogaerts (SS)
3 - Rafael Devers (3B)
4 - JD Martinez (DH)
5 - Andrew Benintendi (LF)
6 - Michael Chavis (1B)
7 - Alex Verdugo (RF)
8 - Vasquez/Plawecki (C)
9 - Peraza or someone else at 2B.
Regardless, Bloom has done a decent job filling out some of the positional depth here. Should be an interesting spring training..
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Post by sibbysisti on Feb 12, 2020 21:16:53 GMT -5
I’d rather wait until the end of ST before speculating on lineups. There are stilll a lot of questions on the final roster construction, trades, injuries, etc. It’s fun, I know, but a lot can happen between now and opening day.
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Post by dmaineah on Feb 12, 2020 21:17:42 GMT -5
No way does Pillar ever lead off
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Post by caseytins on Feb 12, 2020 21:37:13 GMT -5
No way does Pillar ever lead off We shall see. I like his chances of getting on base a lot better at Fenway, especially versus LHP. I think his OBP versus LHP will be pretty even to Verdugo and Benintendi, and higher than JBJ. This is all just fun speculation.. |
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Post by sibbysisti on Feb 12, 2020 21:41:36 GMT -5
Regardless of where he hits in the lineup it was a very good signing by Bloom.
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Post by caseytins on Feb 12, 2020 21:48:09 GMT -5
Look at the splits over the past 3 years. His OPS versus LHP is .815. That's higher than the same splits for the other 3 outfielders. Also, last year, he had to play in San Fran - probably the worst hitters park in all of baseball.
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Post by dmaineah on Feb 12, 2020 21:48:26 GMT -5
Regardless of where he hits in the lineup it was a very good signing by Bloom. Disagree, a very good signing would of been Puig, making JBJ the 4th Outfielder. |
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Post by caseytins on Feb 12, 2020 21:54:08 GMT -5
Regardless of where he hits in the lineup it was a very good signing by Bloom. Disagree, a very good signing would of been Puig, making JBJ the 4th Outfielder. Puig is a headcase, just like me. I am not a good team player, nor is he.. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 12, 2020 23:17:29 GMT -5
My lineup would go:
Against righties:
Benintendi
Bogaers
Devers
Martinez
Verdugo
Vazquez
Moreland
Chavis
Bradley
Against lefties:
Benintendi
Bogaerts
Devers
Martinez
Verdugo
Chavis
Vazquez
Pillar
Peraza
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Post by caseytins on Feb 12, 2020 23:29:27 GMT -5
No way does Pillar ever lead off Yeah, I have to admit I took a big bong hit beforehand. That's why I prefaced it that I didn't put in a ton of thought. Just trying to strike up some convo.. |
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,911
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Post by ericmvan on Feb 13, 2020 2:27:11 GMT -5
I keep on tweaking mine.
1. Bogaerts. This should be pretty obvious. Of the team's three elite hitters, he's the one who sets the table best. 2. Devers, to start the season only. 3. JDM. 4. Moreland, just to start with. 5. Benintendi. The 5 spot has a leadoff flavor, but this won't mess with his mind the way leading off did last year. 6. Vazquez. 7. Verdugo. But see below. Has added advantage of not putting undue pressure on Mookie's replacement.
8. Peraza / Chavis. 9. JBJ.
Now, what you are really looking for is for Beni (or Verdugo) to step up and move out of the good hitter group into the elite. In which case, he hits 2, Devers hits 4, and Moreland 5. If it's Verdugo who steps up, I might put JBJ 7 and Beni 9 as a second leadoff guy.
Moreland is a tough guy to slot in ideally. In terms of his skill set, he's a perfect #7 hitter, but he needs at least adequate protection, more than a #8 hitter can ever give you (unless your lineup is so deep that Vazquez can hit 8th). He's likely the 6th best hitter on the team, so you can move him up to 6 ... but then you don't have a righty hitter to go between him and Devers. The team is now really missing an elite RHB ... is there a free agent OFer capable of playing CF and/or RF that hits righty, that they can sign next winter, replacing JBJ?
Vazquez is not really good enough to hit 6th and is also the wrong style hitter (you want table-setters 5 and 6, low OBP but pop in 7 and 8), but you need him there to break up the lefties. Peraza taking a step forward and fitting that role would be a pleasant surprise, but seems quite unlikely.
So the lineup you dream on vs. RHP is
Bogaerts Benintendi JDM Devers Verdugo Chavis V2.0 Moreland Vazquez JBJ
That's asking for Beni to live up to expectations of a year ago, and Chavis to take a big step forward. He'd be the wrong style for 6, but that's just a nitpick.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 13, 2020 7:18:02 GMT -5
Look at the splits over the past 3 years. His OPS versus LHP is .815. That's higher than the same splits for the other 3 outfielders. Also, last year, he had to play in San Fran - probably the worst hitters park in all of baseball. In his last two seasons, he has a .256 and a .305 OBP vs. LHP. He should be hitting 8th or 9th when he plays. He doesn't walk. You want your leadoff guy on base. |
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,704
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Post by nomar on Feb 13, 2020 7:32:53 GMT -5
I keep on tweaking mine. 1. Bogaerts. This should be pretty obvious. Of the team's three elite hitters, he's the one who sets the table best. 2. Devers, to start the season only. 3. JDM. 4. Moreland, just to start with. 5. Benintendi. The 5 spot has a leadoff flavor, but this won't mess with his mind the way leading off did last year. 6. Vazquez. 7. Verdugo. But see below. Has added advantage of not putting undue pressure on Mookie's replacement.
8. Peraza / Chavis. 9. JBJ. Now, what you are really looking for is for Beni (or Verdugo) to step up and move out of the good hitter group into the elite. In which case, he hits 2, Devers hits 4, and Moreland 5. If it's Verdugo who steps up, I might put JBJ 7 and Beni 9 as a second leadoff guy.
Moreland is a tough guy to slot in ideally. In terms of his skill set, he's a perfect #7 hitter, but he needs at least adequate protection, more than a #8 hitter can ever give you (unless your lineup is so deep that Vazquez can hit 8th). He's likely the 6th best hitter on the team, so you can move him up to 6 ... but then you don't have a righty hitter to go between him and Devers. The team is now really missing an elite RHB ... is there a free agent OFer capable of playing CF and/or RF that hits righty, that they can sign next winter, replacing JBJ?
Vazquez is not really good enough to hit 6th and is also the wrong style hitter (you want table-setters 5 and 6, low OBP but pop in 7 and 8), but you need him there to break up the lefties. Peraza taking a step forward and fitting that role would be a pleasant surprise, but seems quite unlikely. So the lineup you dream on vs. RHP is Bogaerts Benintendi JDM Devers Verdugo Chavis V2.0 Moreland Vazquez JBJ That's asking for Beni to live up to expectations of a year ago, and Chavis to take a big step forward. He'd be the wrong style for 6, but that's just a nitpick.
Vazquez is a pretty brutal 6 hitter |
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 13, 2020 7:50:46 GMT -5
JBJ/Pillar should be gorilla glued into the 9th spot. Verdugo should be the leadoff hitter. Has a little speed, can get on base, maybe set the table.
Verdugo
Benny
Xander
JDM
Devers
Open for whoever is playing 2nd
Moreland/Chavis/Dalbec
Vazquez
JBJ/Pillar
Here is the problem with this lineup. Unless Chavis is going to be the starting 2B then you have a serious issue with lineup construction. Even if he isn't then you're now stuck with Peraza as your #6 hitter. Moreland is a good guy to have in the 7 spot. Vazquez is a brutal #6 hitter. So by process of elimination, you're left with this. I would not rule out the Sox doing something crazy and having Downs break camp if he kills it in the spring. Wouldn't be the first time this happens. Extremely unlikely. Like really unlikely. However, it can't be 100% ruled out. Most likely you're going to see the Sox use Chavis at 1st 2nd and 3rd like last year.
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Post by The Town Sports Cards on Feb 13, 2020 9:44:59 GMT -5
L Verdugo
L Benintendi
R Bogaerts
R Martinez
L Devers
L Moreland
R Peraza/R Chavis
R Vazquez/R Plawecki
L JBJ/ R Pillar
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 13, 2020 9:57:21 GMT -5
I would have agreed with the previous two posters that Verdugo should leadoff until I read Eric's analysis. I agree that it potentially puts unnecessary pressure on him to be Mookie's replacement if he's in right field AND is the leadoff hitter on day one. Maybe he'd be able to handle it but I don't see a whole lot of reason to take the risk. Bat him sixth and let him get comfortable. If he forces the issue and is the leadoff hitter in June? Fantastic.
Benintendi didn't take to leading off. If that was because he doesn't like it or just because he was having a tough year in general, I don't know - that's one of those things I'd trust the manager on to communicate with him. Leading off is a strange beast - some players really don't care to do it, even when it seems to fit their ability.
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Post by dmaineah on Feb 13, 2020 9:58:23 GMT -5
Verdugo
Devers
Bogaerts
Martinez
Benintendi
Chavis
Moreland
Vazquez
JBJ
Bench;
Plaweckii - C
Peraza SS, 2B, OF
Lin SS, 2B, OF
Pillar - OF
Adding Pillar really hurts the construction of the line up. Instead, Puig should be added on a 1 year deal with a team option.
And the line up should be;
Verdugo
Devers
Bogaerts
Martinez
Benintendi
Puig
Moreland
Vazquez
Peraza
Bench;
Plawecki - C
Lin - SS, 2B, OF
Chavis - 1B, 2B, 3B
JBJ - OF
And in 2021 after Martinez opts out & Betts is signed;
Betts
Verdugo
Bogaerts
Devers
Puig
Benintendi
Dalbec
Vazquez
Downs
And in 2022;
Betts
Verdugo
Bogaerts
Devers
Casas
Benintendi
Dalbec
Vazquez
Downs
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Post by Canseco on Feb 13, 2020 10:14:03 GMT -5
RHP:
Bogaerts, SS
Devers, 3B
Martinez, DH
Moreland, 1B
Benintendi, LF
Chavis, 2B
Verdugo, RF
Vazquez, C
Bradley, CF
LHP:
Bogaerts, SS
Devers, 3B
Martinez, DH
Chavis, 1B
Verdugo, RF
Benintendi, LF
Vazquez, C
Peraza, 2B
Bradley, CF
I don’t want a full blown platoon in CF. Pillar/Martinez can spell JBJ and Benintendi periodically against LHP. The only full blown platoon action I’d like to see is at first base. Moreland and Chavis (eventually Dalbec?) can probably provide average-to-above-average production there.
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Post by manfred on Feb 13, 2020 10:23:03 GMT -5
I know Beni wasn’t comfortable last year leading off, but maybe now he can settle in?
Beni
Bogaerts
Devers
JDM
Moreland
Chavis
Verdugo
Vasquez
JBJ
I know it isn’t likely, but I’d like to see Chavis start at 2B. Give him a season to see if he can do enough to keep the thunder in the lineup. As I’ve made clear, this season to me is a wash, so let’s experiment: can Beni lead off? Can Chavis stick at second? etc.
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Post by caseytins on Feb 13, 2020 10:34:36 GMT -5
I would have agreed with the previous two posters that Verdugo should leadoff until I read Eric's analysis. I agree that it potentially puts unnecessary pressure on him to be Mookie's replacement if he's in right field AND is the leadoff hitter on day one. Maybe he'd be able to handle it but I don't see a whole lot of reason to take the risk. Bat him sixth and let him get comfortable. If he forces the issue and is the leadoff hitter in June? Fantastic. Benintendi didn't take to leading off. If that was because he doesn't like it or just because he was having a tough year in general, I don't know - that's one of those things I'd trust the manager on to communicate with him. Leading off is a strange beast - some players really don't care to do it, even when it seems to fit their ability. I agree about Eric's point also, and that is why I have Verdugo down lower in my lineup. I think that he could be a solid leadoff hitter in time - I just don't want to put that initial pressure on him. |
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 13, 2020 10:35:48 GMT -5
Remember, 5 man bench this year folks.
Move along nothing to see here
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Post by brendan98 on Feb 13, 2020 10:36:52 GMT -5
Verdugo
Bogaerts
Devers
JDM
Moreland
Benintendi
Chavis
Vazquez
JBJ
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Post by James Dunne on Feb 13, 2020 10:38:21 GMT -5
Remember, 5 man bench this year folks. You think they're going to carry a 5th bench player rather than a 13th pitcher? Not snark, I was assuming the latter but I don't think that was based on anything other than gut feeling. I think I'd generally prefer a five-man bench, personally, though the Red Sox current staff construction makes carrying an extra pitcher tempting. |
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Post by dmaineah on Feb 13, 2020 10:39:38 GMT -5
Remember, 5 man bench this year folks. Not if they carry the max of 13 pitchers, right? I think most teams will carry the max |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 10:46:56 GMT -5
Verdugo
Bogaerts
Devers
Martinez
Benintendi
Moreland
Vazquez
Bradley
Peraza
Maybe Chavis bats 6th or 7th when he’s in the lineup.
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