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Post by grandsalami on Oct 21, 2020 19:51:55 GMT -5
Felger says the Sox offered exactly what Mookie asked for and he turned them down. And that mookie did not want to resign with the Sox.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Oct 21, 2020 20:23:11 GMT -5
Wasn’t the report he countered the Sox offer with an offer of 12/420 or something like that? Your telling me the Sox said yes to that and he said no? I’m having a very hard time believing that.
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Post by soxfaninnj on Oct 21, 2020 20:25:30 GMT -5
With all these exaggerated Mookie takes, I feel like I would be rooting for the Yankees to beat the dodgers in the World Series If they were the opponent, that’s how obnoxious it’s gotten. Everyone knows how much I hate the Yankees
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Post by tyler3 on Oct 21, 2020 20:38:40 GMT -5
Agree with you above. I love Mookie, I’ve seen him have tremendous seasons, and we have seen him struggle for a couple seasons. I’ve never seen him have a good postseason. And here is the thing for me, all these national pundits want to laud the Yankees and Dodgers but we are doing the same thing they did 2 to 3 years ago. The difference is we won a championship while reloading and in our contention period. The dodgers better get that trophy, the Yankees better figure it out, cuz we have four and are about to come storming back. I just hope the national pundits are this enamored with Buehler, Seager, or Bellinger when we snag one of them in a couple years as the dodgers have to make their tough choice.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 21, 2020 21:09:06 GMT -5
Here is the thing. I don’t think this is the Sox leaking to the media. If this was the Sox leaking this to the media why do it now and not when
A. The trade happened Or B. When he signed his extension with LA.
I mean the Sox have been dragged thru the mud since the trade went down and leaking this then could have lessened that. Unless the Sox have some sort of Fetish about seeing their club dragged thru the mud for close to a year.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 21, 2020 21:19:00 GMT -5
Since when has Mike Felger ever broken any real news?
If he's correct (which I doubt - the timing seems awfully suspicious) then that would absolve the Red Sox of not doing everything in their power to sign Betts.
I wish he was correct. It would be so much easier to swallow.
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Post by bellhorndingers21 on Oct 21, 2020 21:23:41 GMT -5
Since when has Mike Felger ever broken any real news? If he's correct (which I doubt - the timing seems awfully suspicious) then that would absolve the Red Sox of not doing everything in their power to sign Betts. I wish he was correct. It would be so much easier to swallow. Felger got under Henry's skin enough in 2011 that Henry just showed up at the station to talk to him on air. If this was Mazz or Bradford I wouldn't be shocked but Felger seems content sticking to calling Henry cheap.
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Post by patford on Oct 21, 2020 21:25:54 GMT -5
Wasn’t the report he countered the Sox offer with an offer of 12/420 or something like that? Your telling me the Sox said yes to that and he said no? I’m having a very hard time believing that. I find it easy to believe. My impression was he wasn't happy in Boston. He surely seems much happier in LA and I don't begrudge him that at all. I'm pretty much always on the side of a player unless they sign with the Yankees. Anyone who signs with a team that expects grown men to conform to some kind of idiotic private school Kindergarten dress code has lost all respect in my eyes. I still like Betts and wish him well. If he wasn't happy in Boston he was wise to move on and it does not bother me at all. And as I've mentioned a few times. I don't care how good he is and if he had wanted to stay I would have been strongly opposed to the contract he signed.
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Post by prangerx on Oct 21, 2020 21:31:13 GMT -5
Here is the thing. I don’t think this is the Sox leaking to the media. If this was the Sox leaking this to the media why do it now and not when A. The trade happened Or B. When he signed his extension with LA. I mean the Sox have been dragged thru the mud since the trade went down and leaking this then could have lessened that. Unless the Sox have some sort of Fetish about seeing their club dragged thru the mud for close to a year. Its mentioned on the video. Felger's source told him they would rather be accused of being cheap then let the idea that a major star didn't want to be here get out. Whether this is true or not I think Mookie ultimately didn't want to stay in Boston. The Sox knew he was good and wouldn't have traded him unless they knew a deal wasn't likely. Mookie was intent on going to free agency. He may still be on his way there if it weren't for Covid. He took less money then he wanted to sign with the Dodgers, but it feels like he is more comfortable playing there.
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Post by Canseco on Oct 21, 2020 21:36:02 GMT -5
In classic modern media “see ball, chase ball” style, the Sox are being lampooned in the beginning of Mookie’s time in LA. We all know what Mookie is as a player, and that’s phenomenal. The issue is paying ANYONE that kind of guaranteed money for 12-13 years! Maybe Betts will remain a Willie Mays type until he’s 40, but I doubt it. Contracts of that length, in the end, wind up albatrosses.
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Post by manfred on Oct 21, 2020 21:36:14 GMT -5
“Take that’s for what it’s worth.”
Ummm... nothing? I was talking to a guy... yeah... and this guy might be close to some players... etc etc. He should hang up and wait for the answer.
And by the way: the PR logic is dumb. If they said Betts didn’t want to be here, that is easily explained as a single guy’s thing. Happens constantly. Closer to home, prefers warm weather, wife’s job blah blah blah. Being perceived as cheap hurts you with fans.
Being a place no one wants to play is a problem with players, but they *know* the situation no matter what some PR flack puts out. If Betts left for some concrete reason, free agents all know what it is no matter what story the Sox put out.
Fiction.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 21, 2020 21:37:18 GMT -5
Total coincidence this report leaked after several days of the team getting bashed on national TV for trading the best player they've developed in like 80 years.
So the constant drumbeat, especially on the Twitter machine, hitting the Red Sox for this trade every time Betts does so much as catch a pop up has gotten to be a little much. We're firmly in "the Super Bowl is in Detroit and Jerome Bettis is in Detroit" territory. But it's still true! Maybe Red Sox messed up by trading Betts or maybe they messed up by effing up their financial situation so much that they felt their only path was to trade Betts, but they messed up! And after spending roughly 20 years slamming everyone who left town, I'm just not credulous enough to believe a report coming out in the middle of the World Series that "actually we tried to keep Mookie but he didn't want to." Maybe just take the L and move on, Red Sox Leaker Crew.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 21, 2020 21:38:44 GMT -5
Here is the thing. I don’t think this is the Sox leaking to the media. If this was the Sox leaking this to the media why do it now and not when A. The trade happened Or B. When he signed his extension with LA. I mean the Sox have been dragged thru the mud since the trade went down and leaking this then could have lessened that. Unless the Sox have some sort of Fetish about seeing their club dragged thru the mud for close to a year. Its mentioned on the video. Felger's source told him they would rather be accused of being cheap then let the idea that a major star didn't want to be here get out. Whether this is true or not I think Mookie ultimately didn't want to stay in Boston. The Sox knew he was good and wouldn't have traded him unless they knew a deal wasn't likely. Mookie was intent on going to free agency. He may still be on his way there if it weren't for Covid. He took less money then he wanted to sign with the Dodgers, but it feels like he is more comfortable playing there. I don't understand why the Red Sox would rather others think they're cheap and foolish instead of their player simply preferring to play elsewhere. I don't see the shame of that. Some players like the attention and fishbowl existence with a passionate fanbase that Boston offers while others would prefer to play in a less intense atmosphere. I don't see how letting others think you're too cheap and/or foolish to do everything you can to keep the best all around player you've ever developed rather than the player didn't want to stay would be preferable.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 21, 2020 21:43:33 GMT -5
In classic modern media “see ball, chase ball” style, the Sox are being lampooned in the beginning of Mookie’s time in LA. We all know what Mookie is as a player, and that’s phenomenal. The issue is paying ANYONE that kind of guaranteed money for 12-13 years! Maybe Betts will remain a Willie Mays type until he’s 40, but I doubt it. Contracts of that length, in the end, wind up albatrosses. Yes, but if the Dodgers wind up winning for the first time in 32 seasons, I doubt they'll regret it. Yes at some point it becomes an albatross, but maybe he remains a Willie Mays type until he's 36 or 37. Hell, Willie Mays was still an effective player at age 40. But getting 8 or 9 great seasons out of Betts would make it worth it. His $/overall production (however they measure that) is still probably a bargain. What's a theoretical Mookie season worth at this point? $40 - $50 million/year? As it is, if Betts doesn't make that shoestring catch, the Dodgers might not have even made the Series. He's been impactful in a season in which the Dodgers may very well win the Series, which is something that has eluded them for a long time.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 21, 2020 21:50:38 GMT -5
Which in turn has zero to do with the thread.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 21, 2020 21:53:50 GMT -5
Its mentioned on the video. Felger's source told him they would rather be accused of being cheap then let the idea that a major star didn't want to be here get out. Whether this is true or not I think Mookie ultimately didn't want to stay in Boston. The Sox knew he was good and wouldn't have traded him unless they knew a deal wasn't likely. Mookie was intent on going to free agency. He may still be on his way there if it weren't for Covid. He took less money then he wanted to sign with the Dodgers, but it feels like he is more comfortable playing there. I don't understand why the Red Sox would rather others think they're cheap and foolish instead of their player simply preferring to play elsewhere. I don't see the shame of that. Some players like the attention and fishbowl existence with a passionate fanbase that Boston offers while others would prefer to play in a less intense atmosphere. I don't see how letting others think you're too cheap and/or foolish to do everything you can to keep the best all around player you've ever developed rather than the player didn't want to stay would be preferable. Ok say the Sox come out publicly and say they offered what he wanted and he told us he would rather play elsewhere. Mookie of course will be asked about that and will deny that (why would HE say publicly he wanted out of Boston) and then the Sox are labeled as liars and then that looks worse for the Sox (even if it’s true)
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Post by manfred on Oct 21, 2020 21:54:31 GMT -5
Wasn’t the report he countered the Sox offer with an offer of 12/420 or something like that? Your telling me the Sox said yes to that and he said no? I’m having a very hard time believing that. Let’s get back to this question, because it is all that matters: is this guy saying the Sox offered the 12/420? We can call a truce on should they have traded him... this is about is this or is this not BS. And this question has to lead one to cry BS. No way the Sox said $420 mill and Mookie a) passed and b) we are hearing about it only cause some guy couldn’t hold his rosé.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 21, 2020 21:59:09 GMT -5
Mookie has a 24 year payout. Present value is $306 million not $365 million. Either Mookie's agent isn't good at math or sold out for Covid concerns.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Oct 21, 2020 22:01:32 GMT -5
Wasn’t the report he countered the Sox offer with an offer of 12/420 or something like that? Your telling me the Sox said yes to that and he said no? I’m having a very hard time believing that. Let’s get back to this question, because it is all that matters: is this guy saying the Sox offered the 12/420? We can call a truce on should they have traded him... this is about is this or is this not BS. And this question has to lead one to cry BS. No way the Sox said $420 mill and Mookie a) passed and b) we are hearing about it only cause some guy couldn’t hold his rosé. LOL and you put down unsourced speculation ?
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Post by manfred on Oct 21, 2020 22:05:47 GMT -5
Let’s get back to this question, because it is all that matters: is this guy saying the Sox offered the 12/420? We can call a truce on should they have traded him... this is about is this or is this not BS. And this question has to lead one to cry BS. No way the Sox said $420 mill and Mookie a) passed and b) we are hearing about it only cause some guy couldn’t hold his rosé. LOL and you put down unsourced speculation ? Ummm... this IS unsourced speculation. “Some dude at a cocktail party“ is tough to cite in MLA format.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 21, 2020 22:06:09 GMT -5
I don't understand why the Red Sox would rather others think they're cheap and foolish instead of their player simply preferring to play elsewhere. I don't see the shame of that. Some players like the attention and fishbowl existence with a passionate fanbase that Boston offers while others would prefer to play in a less intense atmosphere. I don't see how letting others think you're too cheap and/or foolish to do everything you can to keep the best all around player you've ever developed rather than the player didn't want to stay would be preferable. Ok say the Sox come out publicly and say they offered what he wanted and he told us he would rather play elsewhere. Mookie of course will be asked about that and will deny that (why would HE say publicly he wanted out of Boston) and then the Sox are labeled as liars and then that looks worse for the Sox (even if it’s true) I would think if they put that huge an offer out there (we're talking record breaking), that probably would have leaked a lot sooner.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 21, 2020 22:13:22 GMT -5
it is obvious that for some people, they don't want this story to be correct. We are fans of the Boston Red Sox, it isn't easy to think of our favorite son wanting to leave our club. It is much more palatable to think that the Sox ownership screwed this up. To me, that speaks to confirmation bias. To me, the people that are open minded to the idea that he didn't want to be here, for whatever reason, are being more intellectually honest about this debate.
Henry and Co have screwed up many times and that fact also tends to increase bias. It doesn't matter really. I love Mookie and wish him the best. However, saying this guy is a hack is outside the actual debate of whether he didn't want to sign. It is absolutely possible and should not be prejudged, out of hand.
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Post by manfred on Oct 21, 2020 22:22:55 GMT -5
it is obvious that for some people, they don't want this story to be correct. We are fans of the Boston Red Sox, it isn't easy to think of our favorite son wanting to leave our club. It is much more palatable to think that the Sox ownership screwed this up. To me, that speaks to confirmation bias. To me, the people that are open minded to the idea that he didn't want to be here, for whatever reason, are being more intellectually honest about this debate. Henry and Co have screwed up many times and that fact also tends to increase bias. It doesn't matter really. I love Mookie and wish him the best. However, saying this guy is a hack is outside the actual debate of whether he didn't want to sign. It is absolutely possible and should not be prejudged, out of hand. Wouldn’t that make the story Mookie took $100 million less than he had been offered? And if that is about the market, that has huge ramifications for free agents. If it was for personal reasons, that ain’t great for the union. I don’t buy such a massive story coning out like this. And that doesn’t exclude the possibility he wanted to leave. But there is *no way* they met his demand.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Oct 21, 2020 22:55:12 GMT -5
it is obvious that for some people, they don't want this story to be correct. We are fans of the Boston Red Sox, it isn't easy to think of our favorite son wanting to leave our club. It is much more palatable to think that the Sox ownership screwed this up. To me, that speaks to confirmation bias. To me, the people that are open minded to the idea that he didn't want to be here, for whatever reason, are being more intellectually honest about this debate. Henry and Co have screwed up many times and that fact also tends to increase bias. It doesn't matter really. I love Mookie and wish him the best. However, saying this guy is a hack is outside the actual debate of whether he didn't want to sign. It is absolutely possible and should not be prejudged, out of hand. Wouldn’t that make the story Mookie took $100 million less than he had been offered? And if that is about the market, that has huge ramifications for free agents. If it was for personal reasons, that ain’t great for the union. I don’t buy such a massive story coning out like this. And that doesn’t exclude the possibility he wanted to leave. But there is *no way* they met his demand. it could, but we don't know his motivation. He could use any Sox offer to leverage more money from the Dodgers. That is fair game in negotiating. it is entirely possible that he set an offer, the Sox matched it, but he had no intention of signing, and instead used that as a barometer for other offers. Remember Mark Texiera. Or how bout David Price.
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Post by manfred on Oct 21, 2020 23:12:35 GMT -5
Wouldn’t that make the story Mookie took $100 million less than he had been offered? And if that is about the market, that has huge ramifications for free agents. If it was for personal reasons, that ain’t great for the union. I don’t buy such a massive story coning out like this. And that doesn’t exclude the possibility he wanted to leave. But there is *no way* they met his demand. it could, but we don't know his motivation. He could use any Sox offer to leverage more money from the Dodgers. That is fair game in negotiating. it is entirely possible that he set an offer, the Sox matched it, but he had no intention of signing, and instead used that as a barometer for other offers. Remember Mark Texiera. Or how bout David Price. But how do you leverage a $420 million offer into a $365 million one (over 24 years)? That is, er, the opposite of leverage.
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