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8/10-8/12 Red Sox vs. Rays Thread
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Post by soxfansince67 on Aug 12, 2021 22:04:22 GMT -5
I sense s philosophical conflict between Bloom & Cora. At least regarding revamping the bullpenin mid-August. Bloom is willing to cut bait with players and rotate AAA pitchers up. Cora: wants to live or die with his current roster. Cora is not Bloom-esque. Sources: just surmising I wonder if there is misalignment in more parameters than that - Henry/ownership with Bloom, with Cora. I just heard the tape of Bloom talking about so many people are wrong about what was done at the trade deadline - he sounded tone deaf, and defensive. He may not quite be understanding communicating in the big Boston market (as compared with tiny Tampa)
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 12, 2021 22:06:07 GMT -5
Jeez, what a game at The Field of Dreams.
Down 7-4 and down to their last out, the Yankees get 2-run HRs from Judge and Stanton to take the lead and threaten to cut the Boston lead in the 2nd wild card down to just 1 game.
But then the Yankees crappy bullpen came to the rescue as Britton gave up a 2 run walk off HR to Tim Anderson to hand the Yankees a 9-8 loss.
The way things are going you cant help but wonder if the 2 wild cards are Oakland and Toronto with Boston and New York both failing to make the playoffs.
So now TB is 5 ahead of Boston, Oakland is 2 ahead of Boston while NY remains 2 behind Boston and Toronto trails LAA tonight.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 12, 2021 22:09:20 GMT -5
I sense s philosophical conflict between Bloom & Cora. At least regarding revamping the bullpenin mid-August. Bloom is willing to cut bait with players and rotate AAA pitchers up. Cora: wants to live or die with his current roster. Cora is not Bloom-esque. Sources: just surmising I wonder if there is misalignment in more parameters than that - Henry/ownership with Bloom, with Cora. I just heard the tape of Bloom talking about so many people are wrong about what was done at the trade deadline - he sounded tone deaf, and defensive. He may not quite be understanding communicating in the big Boston market (as compared with tiny Tampa) Say he is right and the Sox would have gotten ripped off in just about every deal. So how exactly did he improve the bullpen by obtaining two 5 ERA guys in Robles and Davis? How do those 2 help? Honestly they would have been better off not even acquiring them as both have been predictably terrible.
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Post by incandenza on Aug 12, 2021 22:14:50 GMT -5
Also, it was danged interminable but now they're finally through the really difficult stretch of divisional play. From here on they have the easiest schedule in the division. Strength of schedule: Rays: .508 Red Sox: .487 Blue Jays: .493 Yankees: .513 They'll need to win some games against the Rays and Yankees. But hopefully Sale and Schwarber can help with that.
They lined up Sale to face the O's and avoid both the Rays and Yankees I am aware, but they have more games against those teams. He should line up to start in the next two series against the Rays and hopefully he'll line up against the Yankees as well. But if not, at least we have 5 legit starters now. That's a nice change.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Aug 13, 2021 1:17:53 GMT -5
Houck 2nd time through the order:
Lowe -- shallow sac fly (Kiermeyer scored, the Plaweki throwing error put him on third) Franco -- Ground out to Houck (3rd out)
Cruz -- K swinging Meadows -- Line out to SS Wendle -- K looking
Diaz -- K swinging Phillips -- K swinging Kiermeyer -- single RF Zunino -- K swinging
It wasn't until Houck got to his season high pitch count that he ran into any trouble. Previous high (minors and Majors, 86 pitches) this game 89. The Franco excellent Franco AB pretty much did him in.
Also of note, every time Houck leaves with runners on, they score. Every time.
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Post by jmei on Aug 13, 2021 7:07:46 GMT -5
There’s a major contradiction between the idea that “this team is hopeless” and the idea that “they should have done more at the trade deadline.” This is not a sport where adding an extra player or two makes a huge difference in the win column. The team is what it is. I think they’ve got a major run left in the. Add in Sale, Schwarber and Arroyo and subtract (or play less) Gonzalez, Santana, Dalbec, Duran and the fringier bullpen arms, and this team is as good as any in the division in terms of true talent. I think Scherzer and Kimbrel or one of Rizzo/Bryant would’ve made huge difference and they may only be 1-2 games out if not tied for first. I think Bryant or Rizzo create a domino effect in the line-up and another solid starter could’ve meant no Richards or Perez after the 30th because they’d be replaced by Scherzer and Houck. And I think that could’ve been done without giving up Casas and Duran and maybe even Groome. I hope you realize that it's a fantasy to think that adding three players at the trade deadline would have improved the team by three to five games over the course of 12 post-deadline games.
Another fantasy: that we stop. talking. about. the. trade. deadline. (Funny how that only comes up after losses?)
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 13, 2021 7:31:18 GMT -5
Not trying to be a wise guy but how do you talk about the Red Sox (at a Red Sox fan board) and not talk about the trade deadline? I mean regardless of what side you are on, it has set the tone for the rest of the season and some may argue for future seasons.
If not the trade deadline, what would be an acceptable topic?
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Post by patford on Aug 13, 2021 7:45:17 GMT -5
Not trying to be a wise guy but how do you talk about the Red Sox (at a Red Sox fan board) and not talk about the trade deadline? I mean regardless of what side you are on, it has set the tone for the rest of the season and some may argue for future seasons. If not the trade deadline, what would be an acceptable topic? I believe the implication is to talk about the trade deadline on the trade deadline post.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 13, 2021 8:10:00 GMT -5
I think Scherzer and Kimbrel or one of Rizzo/Bryant would’ve made huge difference and they may only be 1-2 games out if not tied for first. I think Bryant or Rizzo create a domino effect in the line-up and another solid starter could’ve meant no Richards or Perez after the 30th because they’d be replaced by Scherzer and Houck. And I think that could’ve been done without giving up Casas and Duran and maybe even Groome. I hope you realize that it's a fantasy to think that adding three players at the trade deadline would have improved the team by three to five games over the course of 12 post-deadline games.
Another fantasy: that we stop. talking. about. the. trade. deadline. (Funny how that only comes up after losses?)
Hate to point out the obvious, but just about every damn game in the two weeks since the deadline has been a loss with the exception of 3 games. Obviously people aren't going to complain when Tampa lets their starter give up 11 runs and uses their catcher to pitch, and the Sox score 20 easy runs, but the sense of what failed to happened, especially when we see the same holes in the lineup we have seen every day and watch an overworked bullpen cave in daily and all of us realize that we were watching a team playing over its head. I mean, the Sox are 66-51. Had the Sox been wallowing around .500 as anticipated all season and had shown improvement as a team to reach this record I think many of would have been thrilled. That's easier to swallow than watching a team that was 4.5 games in front of its division, and had a double digit lead over its wild card opponents that looked in obvious need of an upgrade at 1b where the market looked plentiful and an obvious bullpen upgrade given how over the top ridiculous the starter market was and the fact that they did have reinforcements coming, albeit the 5 inning variety (can't see Sale being pushed beyond that understandably), to find them playing like a team, that in 3 weeks might very well torpedo their season, is frustrating. Had this team been playing like the 2015 team where they stunk but had that strong second half that leads you to believe that bigger and better things were around the corner, I think the same 66-51 record would be looked at differently. The arrow would be pointing upward. Unfortunately this is the worst a truly contending Red Sox team has fallen apart since 2011 which left a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths and lead to 2012 (which happily lead to the miracle of 2013). While I don't see 2012 happening I do see Tampa and Toronto are strong young teams that will tough for the Red Sox to overcome in the next few years and a Yankee team that I suspect will have a pretty big spending splurge this offseason (would the Sox do the same and go over the limit by the start of the season?) Right now, I don't know what to expect with this 2021 team. I don't have a heckuva lot of faith in this team anymore. Even if they make the playoffs I'd expect them to be either 1 and done or a first round casualty, and this is knowing that anything can happen when you get in the playoffs. Before all this, I really thought they had a shot at being an ALCS team with a chance of Championship glory just because the year did feel so damn magical. Best record in the AL, getting Sale back and some obvious reinforcements in areas that are obviously replacement level - raise that pennant flag! If you told me before the season they'd be an ALDS casualty before the season I would have been thrilled about that. Heck I would have been happy to see them be a decent team or at least entertaining because for almost 4 months they were entertaining and beyond. And because they seemed so damn special and you could envision some sort of 2013 magic it's hard to see them implode the way they have, and you hate to see that to a team that has handled the Yankees they way they have. You want a team that does that to succeed wildly. I'm as tired of the deadline talk as anybody else and I know I contribute my fair share, but if it's to truly stop, the Sox need to win games and I mean really win games. See them go on a run of 20-7 or something like that if you want it to go away. That's up to the Red Sox.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 13, 2021 8:12:21 GMT -5
I think Scherzer and Kimbrel or one of Rizzo/Bryant would’ve made huge difference and they may only be 1-2 games out if not tied for first. I think Bryant or Rizzo create a domino effect in the line-up and another solid starter could’ve meant no Richards or Perez after the 30th because they’d be replaced by Scherzer and Houck. And I think that could’ve been done without giving up Casas and Duran and maybe even Groome. I hope you realize that it's a fantasy to think that adding three players at the trade deadline would have improved the team by three to five games over the course of 12 post-deadline games.
Another fantasy: that we stop. talking. about. the. trade. deadline. (Funny how that only comes up after losses?)
Well, you did bring up the premise about adding a player, soooo….
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Post by incandenza on Aug 13, 2021 8:15:25 GMT -5
Not trying to be a wise guy but how do you talk about the Red Sox (at a Red Sox fan board) and not talk about the trade deadline? I mean regardless of what side you are on, it has set the tone for the rest of the season and some may argue for future seasons. If not the trade deadline, what would be an acceptable topic? I believe the suggestion is to not say the same thing about the trade deadline over and over and over again.
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Post by greenmonster on Aug 13, 2021 8:47:04 GMT -5
Not trying to be a wise guy but how do you talk about the Red Sox (at a Red Sox fan board) and not talk about the trade deadline? I mean regardless of what side you are on, it has set the tone for the rest of the season and some may argue for future seasons. If not the trade deadline, what would be an acceptable topic? I believe the suggestion is to not say the same thing about the trade deadline over and over and over again. I don't disagree with that sentiment as it can get a bit nauseating reading the same thing over and over. But, I wouldn't limit it to just trade deadline banter. I would include things like: - Why is player XYZ still on this team? - He needs to be DFA'd before his next at bat - ZYX should never step foot on the mound again - Cora is the greatest manager who ever managed in any sport It is a bit of a double edged sword as those are the things on the minds of Red Sox fans and to tell them they are not welcome to discuss on this site will ultimately lead to fewer people visiting. I don't think that is the long-term goal. Of course if there is nothing but bitching and complaining that will likely turn people away as well.
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Post by fanofredsox on Aug 13, 2021 9:27:18 GMT -5
The real problem lies with when you have a different point of view with a board moderator.
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Post by worldbfree on Aug 13, 2021 9:39:09 GMT -5
I believe the suggestion is to not say the same thing about the trade deadline over and over and over again. I don't disagree with that sentiment as it can get a bit nauseating reading the same thing over and over. But, I wouldn't limit it to just trade deadline banter. I would include things like: - Why is player XYZ still on this team? - He needs to be DFA'd before his next at bat - ZYX should never step foot on the mound again - Cora is the greatest manager who ever managed in any sport It is a bit of a double edged sword as those are the things on the minds of Red Sox fans and to tell them they are not welcome to discuss on this site will ultimately lead to fewer people visiting. I don't think that is the long-term goal. Of course if there is nothing but bitching and complaining that will likely turn people away as well. You can also include “Bloom knows what he is doing”. There are lots of people who don’t think fans are in a position to question the front office decisions. Group think can turn people off as well.
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Post by patford on Aug 13, 2021 10:20:34 GMT -5
The real problem lies with when you have a different point of view with a board moderator. The board moderator is suggesting the trade deadline post is the place to discuss the trade deadline.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,941
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 13, 2021 23:30:14 GMT -5
His expected line against RHP is .286 / .295 / .537, for an xwOBA of .352. That's the 11th best figure among starting 1B. He's 11th in wOBA as well (.362). He has not just been a good platoon option at 1B, but a borderline legitimate first-division starter.
The guy he'll actually platoon with is not Schwarber, who will likely play LF against LHP. It'll be Verdugo, with Kiké in CF and Arroyo at 2B.
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This month he has an xBA of .221 vs. LHP, but is 6/13, 3B, including 6/8 on BIP. He's had 4 hard-hit balls, but two were easy groundouts and one was the fly ball that Arozarena WTF'd.
Last expected hard hit was a week ago, and that was 114.4 mph, LA 1 = xBA .580, and Candelerio turned into into an inning-ending out.
You can’t say his “expected” outcomes have been fine — and thus he has BEEN a good player. One of those things is a parallel universe stat, one is based on real results. You can say if things had broken as numbers suggest they should have, he’d have been good. At this point, you nay as well play Dalbec. Who else? But I am pretty ready to say he is not a good player. Well, if there's any doubt that you will read a one or two sentences in a post and then vehemently disagree with it without reading the next sentence or two, you've just outed yourself. Geeze, dude, pull your pants up, we don't want to see that!
Because, in the third sentence, I point out that his actual results have been a bit better than his expected results and that his rank among all 1B is the same.
I always look at and cite expected results first because they do a better job of predicting the future than actual results. That's a fact. I then always cite the actual results because the difference, if there is one, can have a real component.
(I actually came back to this thread to see to what degree we put the reverse whammy on Dalbec by talking about how long he had gone without hitting a ball hard. Not quite as clearly as I remembered it.)
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