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Post by brendan98 on Apr 17, 2013 21:06:59 GMT -5
So Shaw is ranked #27 on this site, and I understand that despite having some pretty good numbers in the minor leagues the last couple of years, that he is viewed as a fringe prospect because of his (lack of) tools. Anyhow, for whatever reason I like Shaw as a prospect, and am curious to know what it would take production wise, for him to be considered a legit prospect, or is it more a tools thing than a production thing. His writeup on the site indicates Shaw can be a little long with his swing and speculates that his batspeed will be tested in the upper minors. Would AA pitching be a good indicator, and might a successful AA season as a 23 year old (turned 23 yesterday), indicate that Shaw has enough upside to be in consideration as the Sox 1B of the future?
Love Shaw's 124 BB versus 172 K as a professional ballplayer, and he has also posted solid XBH numbers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2013 21:21:28 GMT -5
He is the minor league player I would most like to see in person this year. He is a touch old for the league but did well in Salem last year. He's the one player in the system I don't feel I have a clear scouting profile of.
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 17, 2013 22:09:08 GMT -5
He is a touch old for the league but did well in Salem this year. He's not in Salem, he's in Portland. And he's young for the league. The only thing against him is that he lacks power for a 1B.
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Post by jmei on Apr 17, 2013 22:16:35 GMT -5
He is a touch old for the league but did well in Salem this year. He's not in Salem, he's in Portland. And he's young for the league. The only thing against him is that he lacks power for a 1B. So he's basically Colin Moran?
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Post by pedroelgrande on Apr 17, 2013 22:56:37 GMT -5
Who's basically John Olerud?
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 17, 2013 23:03:11 GMT -5
He's not in Salem, he's in Portland. And he's young for the league. The only thing against him is that he lacks power for a 1B. I really don't like his "he's young for the league!" stuff. I don't care about the league. A large majority of those players aren't going to have real MLB careers. He's old (or at the very least not young) by the standards of actual prospects.
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 17, 2013 23:49:33 GMT -5
I really don't like his "he's young for the league!" stuff. I don't care about the league. A large majority of those players aren't going to have real MLB careers. He's old (or at the very least not young) by the standards of actual prospects. I don't disagree with you, but my main point was that Shaw is not nearly old enough to have his numbers taken with a grain salt because of it. Mike Olt was 23 last year and he spent most of it at AA.
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Post by afineline on Apr 18, 2013 6:57:35 GMT -5
Don't confuse a "lack of power" with "not trying to hit HR's"
Its very easy to be a boxscore scout/critic versus using your eyewitness accounts. Shaw has plenty of power, to all fields.
Would you rather have another run-of-the-mill swing at all or nothing .220 hitters with a high K rate, no OBP with more HR's, or a HITTER w/power?
He appears more a Berkman type hitter than the cast of thousands stiffs at 1B that have come and gone in pro baseball.
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Post by elguapo on Apr 18, 2013 8:54:03 GMT -5
Shaw is fringy but some of those guys do make it - and some stall at AAA, or waste the best years of their career putting up big numbers there. Half the battle is getting an opportunity in the majors and making the most of it.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 18, 2013 9:13:28 GMT -5
Don't confuse a "lack of power" with "not trying to hit HR's" Its very easy to be a boxscore scout/critic versus using your eyewitness accounts. Shaw has plenty of power, to all fields. Would you rather have another run-of-the-mill swing at all or nothing .220 hitters with a high K rate, no OBP with more HR's, or a HITTER w/power? He appears more a Berkman type hitter than the cast of thousands stiffs at 1B that have come and gone in pro baseball. If we were just being boxscore critics, wouldn't Shaw be in the top 5? His statistical line since he came into the organization is very impressive. Not quite Lance Berkman (?!) impressive, however. Berkman was a stud at Rice, where he was the 1997 College Player of the Year, and totally dominated the minor leagues. He was drafted 16th overall in '97, and would've gone higher 10 years later as teams began to focus more on statistical factors - can you imagine Billy Beane passing on him? He then split '98 between Double-A and Triple-A, where he hit 30 home runs. When he was Shaw's age, he was in the majors. Don't take that as a negative though, I really like Shaw. First-hand reports this year, including Ian Cundall's from yesterday, seem to indicate his swing is becoming less mechanical and more fluid. He's a hard worker and a bright guy, so there are a lot of positives here. The Red Sox also drafted him twice, placed him on the aggressive end last season, and didn't hesitate to promote him, so he clearly has fans within the organization. Yesterday John Olerud comparisons for Colin Moran, today we have Lance Berkman for Travis Shaw. Olerud and Berkman were/are borderline Hall of Famers - saying that someone isn't as good as a player of that stature is NOT a criticism. EDIT: Lance Berkman has a SLG of 1.032 his Junior season at Rice. Not an OPS of 1.032... that was his slugging percentage.
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Post by Don Caballero on Apr 18, 2013 9:33:09 GMT -5
Don't confuse a "lack of power" with "not trying to hit HR's"
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Post by afineline on Apr 18, 2013 14:38:42 GMT -5
Berkman was .286 with avg of 15-20 Hr's per Milb season.
I said Berkman "type hitter", which is a good hitter with some power.
And college stats with 2 3/4 barrel Black magic bats are meaningless when translating HR power and SLG %
And Bugs Bunny, if you prefer a .200 hitter with a 50% K rate tradeoff for a player trying to hit HR's every plate appearance, go for it!
Better yet, follow Softball and pay a visit to the Kingman HOF
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 18, 2013 14:47:36 GMT -5
That is pretty clearly Buster Bunny from Tiny Toon Adventures.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 18, 2013 14:53:14 GMT -5
Lance Berkman is a Puma, not a bunny.
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Post by jmei on Apr 18, 2013 15:11:54 GMT -5
Berkman was .286 with avg of 15-20 Hr's per Milb season. I said Berkman "type hitter", which is a good hitter with some power. Lance Berkman averaged 28.6 home runs per 600 PAs across his major league career. He averaged 25.7 home runs per season (excluding 2013), if you prefer to count it that way. He had two 40 home run seasons and four other 30 home run seasons. He never once had a season in his 14-plus-season career where he hit between 15 and 20 home runs (the closest: 14 home runs in 2010 (his partial season with the Yankees) and 21 home runs in 2000 (his second season in the major leagues)). Moreover, his career major league batting average is .296. If you're just talking minor league numbers, Mr. Puma averaged 26.8 home runs per 600 PAs across his minor league career. He hit a combined 30 home runs across two minor league levels in 1998, his first full year in the minor leagues. He then hit 12 HRs in 373 PAs between the majors and minors in 1999 (pro-rated 19.2 HR/600 PAs) and 27 HRs in 561 PAs between the majors and minors in 2000 (pro-rated 28.8 HR/600 PAs). He also hit .307 across his minor league career, and he never hit less than .286 in any individual season (he did hit .271 in 17 games in 1998 for the AAA New Orleans Zephyrs after being promoted from AA, where he'd hit .306; his cumulative BA that season was .302 across the two levels). So yeah, the Lance Berkman you think you know isn't really the one that actually existed.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Apr 18, 2013 15:16:23 GMT -5
Berkman was .286 with avg of 15-20 Hr's per Milb season. I said Berkman "type hitter", which is a good hitter with some power. I think you should take a second look at Berkman's milb stats 1998 (22 yrs AA/AAA): 590 PA 30 HR 38 2B .422 OBP .566 SLG 1999 (23 yrs AAA): 267 PA 8 HR 20 2B .419 OBP .518 SLG 2000 (24 yrs AAA): 112 PA 6 HR 4 2B 2 3B .479 OBP .563 SLG How Travis Shaw's performance in the minors can be seriously compared to that is a legitimate question. -I will also note that I like Travis Shaw - but we should as a community should lay off from these types of comps. And JMEI beats me to it.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Apr 18, 2013 16:48:21 GMT -5
Berkman was .286 with avg of 15-20 Hr's per Milb season. I said Berkman "type hitter", which is a good hitter with some power. And college stats with 2 3/4 barrel Black magic bats are meaningless when translating HR power and SLG % And Bugs Bunny, if you prefer a .200 hitter with a 50% K rate tradeoff for a player trying to hit HR's every plate appearance, go for it!Better yet, follow Softball and pay a visit to the Kingman HOF This is like asking whether you want to read low level trolling or low level baseball discussion. The answer is neither, because many better options exist.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 18, 2013 17:49:28 GMT -5
Lance Berkman is a Puma, not a bunny. Lance Berkman is also just about the best switch hitter in the history of baseball not named Mantel. Why are we talking about him, exactly? Edit: on top of all that, Lance Berkman played 166 games in CENTER FIELD in his career and 373 in right. He's in a completely different world than Shaw. This is like when soft-tossing righties get comped to Greg Maddux because people don't remember that Maddux could touch mid-90s in his prime.
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Post by rjp313jr on Apr 18, 2013 19:13:29 GMT -5
Didn't Shaw K in 25% of his ABs last year? Isn't that a really high percentage? What is going on here?
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Post by afineline on Apr 18, 2013 19:13:47 GMT -5
No reason to argue. Berkman is a hitter first, power second.
amfox1 edit: deleted remainder of post
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Post by amfox1 on Apr 18, 2013 19:57:09 GMT -5
Let's keep this thread to Shaw.
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Post by James Dunne on Apr 18, 2013 21:03:29 GMT -5
This is like when soft-tossing righties get comped to Greg Maddux because people don't remember that Maddux could touch mid-90s in his prime. At least Maddux and Mr. Generic Four-Pitch Righty play the same position and have the same handedness. I think I'm going to start calling Travis Shaw the Little Puma though, because this ridiculous conversation needs to be memorialized somehow.
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Post by wskeleton76 on Apr 18, 2013 21:05:08 GMT -5
One thing he can do well is drawing walks. 4 BB a day.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Apr 19, 2013 1:12:06 GMT -5
One thing he can do well is drawing walks. 4 BB a day. Oh shit, maybe we should skip pass Berkman and just throw out a Barry Bonds comp.
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Post by wskeleton76 on Apr 19, 2013 2:07:56 GMT -5
Hey did you already forget "The Greek God of Walks"?
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