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TearsIn04
Veteran
Everybody knows Nelson de la Rosa, but who is Karim Garcia?
Posts: 2,837
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Post by TearsIn04 on Dec 5, 2022 22:16:17 GMT -5
It really is the funniest damn thing that he did better in the vote with the group of people he said ought to be murdered than he did with the people he actually worked with. Adding to the hilarity is that he always said he wanted to be considered by the Vets/Eras Committee because the members were people he actually respected. Well, Curt, you got your wish and the results weren't pretty. Maybe that respect isn't mutual.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 5, 2022 23:05:54 GMT -5
It really is the funniest damn thing that he did better in the vote with the group of people he said ought to be murdered than he did with the people he actually worked with. Adding to the hilarity is that he always said he wanted to be considered by the Vets/Eras Committee because the members were people he actually respected. Well, Curt, you got your wish and the results weren't pretty. Maybe that respect isn't mutual. If I remember correctly, I think he pissed off a lot of his Phillies teammates with his head buried in the towel thing when teammate Mitch "the wild thing" Williams would pitch. As a fan I get why he couldn't stomach watching him. Williams was a cardiac pitcher, one I wouldn't have been able to watch either. As a fan it's ok if I run for cover, but as his teammate, Schilling came off looking very small and I think it rubbed his teammates the wrong way and that kind of thing goes around the league.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 6, 2022 17:00:03 GMT -5
Is it the Hall of good that last a long time? Nomar for example has HOF seven year peak, over the war per 162. Just career cut short by injury. Watching Nomar chase .400 still one of the better experiences I've had during a season. I never thought he was a HOF guy given the high standards. I'd rather truly elite guys with careers shortened by injury than good players who play longer, McGriff isn't close on any of the numbers. Nothing against him, yet the bar just keeps getting lower making other cases even crazier.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 9, 2023 10:08:57 GMT -5
So per the tracker right now it looks like Helton and Rolex are the o my two with a chance.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 24, 2023 12:00:36 GMT -5
Any final predictions on whether anyone is elected? I’m pulling for Helton and Rolex. They have a chance or will be so close, that election next year should be a lock.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 24, 2023 12:23:14 GMT -5
Any final predictions on whether anyone is elected? I’m pulling for Helton and Rolex. They have a chance or will be so close, that election next year should be a lock. I think nobody will get elected tonight. Rolen will be close. Helton won't be too far off, nor Wagner. We'll see how Beltran does, but even though I think all 4 belong, I think none get elected tonight.
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jan 24, 2023 18:16:32 GMT -5
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 24, 2023 19:17:51 GMT -5
Any final predictions on whether anyone is elected? I’m pulling for Helton and Rolex. They have a chance or will be so close, that election next year should be a lock. I think nobody will get elected tonight. Rolen will be close. Helton won't be too far off, nor Wagner. We'll see how Beltran does, but even though I think all 4 belong, I think none get elected tonight. Glad I was wrong. But I would have liked to have seen Rolen go in with Helton and Wagner.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 25, 2023 7:06:27 GMT -5
Nice to see Rolex inducted. He was under appreciated during his playing days. Hopefully Helton next year.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 25, 2023 7:24:00 GMT -5
Guy gets 10% of the vote first time around then eventually gets over 75%… makes zero sense.
Maybe HOF voting has always been a joke, but over the last decade plus it just seems so much worse. At this point, it’s not even worth arguing who is or isn’t HOF worthy. It’s not for the elite so debating who’s very good enough to get in is annoying, especially when there are guys who you watched play, knew they were “special” and “different” that will never be in the Hall.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jan 25, 2023 8:23:06 GMT -5
In my opinion Rolen shouldn't be in the hall, if he's getting in there's a rather large number of other players that deserved to get in that got passed up already. That being said I always like Rolen so I'm happy for the guy.
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Post by incandenza on Jan 25, 2023 10:05:34 GMT -5
Guy gets 10% of the vote first time around then eventually gets over 75%… makes zero sense. Maybe HOF voting has always been a joke, but over the last decade plus it just seems so much worse. At this point, it’s not even worth arguing who is or isn’t HOF worthy. It’s not for the elite so debating who’s very good enough to get in is annoying, especially when there are guys who you watched play, knew they were “special” and “different” that will never be in the Hall. The ballot was ridiculous his first year on it: it included eights eventual hall of famers other than Rolen, plus Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Sheffield, Ramirez, Sosa, Kent, Wagner, and Andruw Jones. Rolen is a clear hall of famer to me, but I might not have voted for him that year just because he wouldn't have made my top 10.
I do think the BBWAA is obviously too stingy with their votes though. When the Hall appoints a committee that puts in a guy like Fred McGriff immediately after his last year on the BBWAA ballot where he never cracked 40%, the Hall itself seems to be sending a clear message to be less stingy.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jan 25, 2023 10:10:59 GMT -5
In my opinion Rolen shouldn't be in the hall, if he's getting in there's a rather large number of other players that deserved to get in that got passed up already. That being said I always like Rolen so I'm happy for the guy. I'm a small-ish hall guy, I wouldn't have voted for Helton for instance, but I think Rolen deserves it. 70 career WAR and an awesome peak from '98-'04 where he was a 6.5 win a year guy, with a 9 win season in '04. He was the third most valuable position player in baseball in that window after Bonds and A-Rod.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,930
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Post by nomar on Jan 25, 2023 10:41:34 GMT -5
In my opinion Rolen shouldn't be in the hall, if he's getting in there's a rather large number of other players that deserved to get in that got passed up already. That being said I always like Rolen so I'm happy for the guy. I'm a small-ish hall guy, I wouldn't have voted for Helton for instance, but I think Rolen deserves it. 70 career WAR and an awesome peak from '98-'04 where he was a 6.5 win a year guy, with a 9 win season in '04. He was the third most valuable position player in baseball in that window after Bonds and A-Rod. I don’t think defense gets enough shine and Rolen was a great third baseman. I’m happy seeing him get in. I do think you can make the argument that Beltran and Jones are in that same tier though. Kent and Helton were also big name players, but they are both around 55 WAR which to me sets too low of a threshold going forward. Sheffield and Abreu are around 60 WAR, but we’re hurt a ton by dWAR. I feel like they might have been managed differently in this era and maybe would look better than they do now. There’s also PED noise here so I’m not surprised to see how voters viewed them. I’m a small-ish hall guy too, but I do think it’s important to keep remembering the amazing stories and periods of time from guys who won’t be immortalized. For example, I loved watching Dickey pitch at his peak. Just so fun. I think I need to keep a list of everyone ever nominated.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 25, 2023 10:54:53 GMT -5
Guy gets 10% of the vote first time around then eventually gets over 75%… makes zero sense. Maybe HOF voting has always been a joke, but over the last decade plus it just seems so much worse. At this point, it’s not even worth arguing who is or isn’t HOF worthy. It’s not for the elite so debating who’s very good enough to get in is annoying, especially when there are guys who you watched play, knew they were “special” and “different” that will never be in the Hall. Rolen was a great player, and I thought so when I watched him. He had a good bat and was pretty great at third base. He gets some what of a bad rap because he wanted out of Philadelphia since Veterans Stadiums astroturf was causing him back issues. Of course twenty years later no one uses astroturf in part because it was bad for player health, but back then Philadelphia fans excoriated him.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 26, 2023 9:07:00 GMT -5
Guy gets 10% of the vote first time around then eventually gets over 75%… makes zero sense. Maybe HOF voting has always been a joke, but over the last decade plus it just seems so much worse. At this point, it’s not even worth arguing who is or isn’t HOF worthy. It’s not for the elite so debating who’s very good enough to get in is annoying, especially when there are guys who you watched play, knew they were “special” and “different” that will never be in the Hall. The ballot was ridiculous his first year on it: it included eights eventual hall of famers other than Rolen, plus Bonds, Clemens, Schilling, Sheffield, Ramirez, Sosa, Kent, Wagner, and Andruw Jones. Rolen is a clear hall of famer to me, but I might not have voted for him that year just because he wouldn't have made my top 10.
I do think the BBWAA is obviously too stingy with their votes though. When the Hall appoints a committee that puts in a guy like Fred McGriff immediately after his last year on the BBWAA ballot where he never cracked 40%, the Hall itself seems to be sending a clear message to be less stingy.
That’s fair about the first year… to a point, but his next 2 years he still didn’t even get half the votes he needed to get into the HOF. This is a comment about voters as much or more than it is about Rolen. I don’t care to argue a players individual case at this point.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jan 26, 2023 11:18:43 GMT -5
Rolen probably benefitted from the clearage of the logjam. Given he was the strongest candidate and a few people probably didn’t want to pull a Shaughnessy and vote for nobody. Does any other major sport have years where no one gets in?
Beltré comes onto the ballot next year, and Ichiro the year after.
So Helton will probably get in on the 8th ballot at latest. Its definitely good for Helton that he isn’t “competing” with Rolen anymore for the voters who only vote for one person. Helton will get in, and then I think Andruw Jones also gets in on his 10th ballot at the latest. That’s another light year.
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Post by seamus on Jan 26, 2023 15:51:38 GMT -5
Next year could realistically see Beltre, Helton, Mauer, and Wagner elected. I could also see Beltran making a jump after taking his lumps this year (much like Alomar). It's a really strong ballot, and it'll be interesting to see if that creates a scenario where a bunch of guys bunch around like 72-78%.
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