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cdj
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Posts: 14,204
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Post by cdj on Dec 8, 2023 14:00:27 GMT -5
Very displeased by how this was handled with the pre-draft decision making and how it played out. Not surprising that a new FO would value some current players less than the old regime, but losing this many players for nothing, topped off by a legitimate prospect like Drohan, doesn't seem like good business. Slaten does sound intriguing and I'm glad to see the Sox pick him up. Never thought the 38-man roster could get so crowded. Sounds like it's 40+38=78 spots A trade was called for. Those 7 players aren't coming back Are you complaining about minor league phase rule 5 picks? There’s a reason why they weren’t traded, they do not have trade value.
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Dec 8, 2023 14:50:56 GMT -5
Never thought the 38-man roster could get so crowded. Sounds like it's 40+38=78 spots A trade was called for. Those 7 players aren't coming back Are you complaining about minor league phase rule 5 picks? There’s a reason why they weren’t traded, they do not have trade value. The Red Sox had 7 players selected in the Minor League portion of the draft. There were multiple open spots on the AAA roster that could have been used to protect said pieces. Losing them for nothing is a curious decision, and it raises questions about why the front office didn't feel the need to expend the very small amount of energy to protect said players. Maybe they just suck, but those other teams don't seem to think so. There's no need to criticize people or be bewildered about their frustrations over these things.
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Post by ematz1423 on Dec 8, 2023 14:55:44 GMT -5
Are you complaining about minor league phase rule 5 picks? There’s a reason why they weren’t traded, they do not have trade value. The Red Sox had 7 players selected in the Minor League portion of the draft. There were multiple open spots on the AAA roster that could have been used to protect said pieces. Losing them for nothing is a curious decision, and it raises questions about why the front office didn't feel the need to expend the very small amount of energy to protect said players. Maybe they just suck, but those other teams don't seem to think so. There's no need to criticize people or be bewildered about their frustrations over these things. The minor league portion really isn't much if any different than the MLB portion when it comes to the value of these guys. I'm sure if there were trades to be made with any of the seven guys who were picked a trade would have been made but I don't see what rush teams would be in to make a trade for any of them when they know they're going to be available via the minor league portion of the draft.
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Dec 8, 2023 14:59:09 GMT -5
The Red Sox had 7 players selected in the Minor League portion of the draft. There were multiple open spots on the AAA roster that could have been used to protect said pieces. Losing them for nothing is a curious decision, and it raises questions about why the front office didn't feel the need to expend the very small amount of energy to protect said players. Maybe they just suck, but those other teams don't seem to think so. There's no need to criticize people or be bewildered about their frustrations over these things. The minor league portion really isn't much if any different than the MLB portion when it comes to the value of these guys. I'm sure if there were trades to be made with any of the seven guys who were picked a trade would have been made but I don't see what rush teams would be in to make a trade for any of them when they know they're going to be available via the minor league portion of the draft. It's not about trades. The Red Sox had space on their rosters to protect some of these players and simply did not. It just seems weird, and people are right to question things that seem weird.
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Post by chaimtime on Dec 8, 2023 15:02:08 GMT -5
Are you complaining about minor league phase rule 5 picks? There’s a reason why they weren’t traded, they do not have trade value. The Red Sox had 7 players selected in the Minor League portion of the draft. There were multiple open spots on the AAA roster that could have been used to protect said pieces. Losing them for nothing is a curious decision, and it raises questions about why the front office didn't feel the need to expend the very small amount of energy to protect said players. Maybe they just suck, but those other teams don't seem to think so. There's no need to criticize people or be bewildered about their frustrations over these things. It’s the minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft. It’s not *good* to lose players for nothing, but these are guys for whom a cup of coffee in the big leagues would be a huge success. The whole point of the system is to give them an opportunity to move somewhere where they have a better shot. If the team thinks these guys are org filler/depth-types not worth protecting, why should we as fans care? Good luck to them at their next stop, hopefully a fresh start helps them to fulfill their dreams.
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Post by sparky7576 on Dec 8, 2023 15:27:45 GMT -5
I'd like to see a short Podcast episode about the players taken from the Rule 5 draft from the Sox & their prospects with their new team as well as the players taken in general, & their prospects with their new teams, and of course, Slaten. It just appears to me that the bottom 8 of the Red Sox 40 man all seem like Schreiber/Bernardino types. We all want to see success stories and are inspired by the success of players such as Schreiber and Bernardino, but in reality, don't the Sox need a couple of high end Bullpen arms to make up the 14 wins necessary for the Red Sox to become a legitimate contender right now? (I'm not talking about adding starters at this moment. To me, that is a different conversation). I just look at teams which might not be the best in overall talent who win, and almost without fail, they have tremendous bullpens (see '14 & '15 Royals). Thoughts?
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Dec 8, 2023 15:37:56 GMT -5
The Red Sox had 7 players selected in the Minor League portion of the draft. There were multiple open spots on the AAA roster that could have been used to protect said pieces. Losing them for nothing is a curious decision, and it raises questions about why the front office didn't feel the need to expend the very small amount of energy to protect said players. Maybe they just suck, but those other teams don't seem to think so. There's no need to criticize people or be bewildered about their frustrations over these things. It’s the minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft. It’s not *good* to lose players for nothing, but these are guys for whom a cup of coffee in the big leagues would be a huge success. The whole point of the system is to give them an opportunity to move somewhere where they have a better shot. If the team thinks these guys are org filler/depth-types not worth protecting, why should we as fans care? Good luck to them at their next stop, hopefully a fresh start helps them to fulfill their dreams. Other teams thought they were worth selecting, and I still think it's silly to lose assets for absolutely nothing. If there were no way to protect these guys, I would not mind so much, but it's odd to let players leave to other organizations when there's a very simple mechanism to keep those assets.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 8, 2023 15:49:54 GMT -5
It’s the minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft. It’s not *good* to lose players for nothing, but these are guys for whom a cup of coffee in the big leagues would be a huge success. The whole point of the system is to give them an opportunity to move somewhere where they have a better shot. If the team thinks these guys are org filler/depth-types not worth protecting, why should we as fans care? Good luck to them at their next stop, hopefully a fresh start helps them to fulfill their dreams. Other teams thought they were worth selecting, and I still think it's silly to lose assets for absolutely nothing. If there were no way to protect these guys, I would not mind so much, but it's odd to let players leave to other organizations when there's a very simple mechanism to keep those assets. If any of them have over 0.1 WAR in a major league career it will be a miracle.
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Post by chaimtime on Dec 8, 2023 15:52:00 GMT -5
It’s the minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft. It’s not *good* to lose players for nothing, but these are guys for whom a cup of coffee in the big leagues would be a huge success. The whole point of the system is to give them an opportunity to move somewhere where they have a better shot. If the team thinks these guys are org filler/depth-types not worth protecting, why should we as fans care? Good luck to them at their next stop, hopefully a fresh start helps them to fulfill their dreams. Other teams thought they were worth selecting, and I still think it's silly to lose assets for absolutely nothing. If there were no way to protect these guys, I would not mind so much, but it's odd to let players leave to other organizations when there's a very simple mechanism to keep those assets. Congrats to those other teams, they paid the Red Sox a little bit of money for the right to give those guys a shot. Don’t really see how that’s relevant to the Red Sox’ evaluation. The Red Sox system is really really deep. There are gonna be guys who won’t be able to get enough playing time, even in the minors, to develop into future big leaguers. If the Sox thought any of these guys fit that bill, then they had no reason to protect them. It makes plenty of sense to take the money and let someone else give them a chance, and make room for their next wave of minor league talent that might have more upside.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Dec 8, 2023 16:50:37 GMT -5
Other teams thought they were worth selecting, and I still think it's silly to lose assets for absolutely nothing. If there were no way to protect these guys, I would not mind so much, but it's odd to let players leave to other organizations when there's a very simple mechanism to keep those assets. Congrats to those other teams, they paid the Red Sox a little bit of money for the right to give those guys a shot. Don’t really see how that’s relevant to the Red Sox’ evaluation. The Red Sox system is really really deep. There are gonna be guys who won’t be able to get enough playing time, even in the minors, to develop into future big leaguers. If the Sox thought any of these guys fit that bill, then they had no reason to protect them. It makes plenty of sense to take the money and let someone else give them a chance, and make room for their next wave of minor league talent that might have more upside. I totally agree with your perspective! The Red Sox system is stronger than it has been in a while, so there were simply not enough spots to protect everyone. The minor league phase of Rule 5 selections did not include anyone currently in Soxprospect’s top 60. In addition, Fernandez was too often hurt, and Drohan was dreadful in AAA. The many prospects who remain are among the best in the minors as the Red Sox have a strong system, and a handful will soon be assisting the big club in Boston. Let’s hope the scouting and development group continues to help the Red Sox prospect’s development into MLB quality special players.
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 8, 2023 17:35:46 GMT -5
It’s the minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft. It’s not *good* to lose players for nothing, but these are guys for whom a cup of coffee in the big leagues would be a huge success. The whole point of the system is to give them an opportunity to move somewhere where they have a better shot. If the team thinks these guys are org filler/depth-types not worth protecting, why should we as fans care? Good luck to them at their next stop, hopefully a fresh start helps them to fulfill their dreams. Other teams thought they were worth selecting, and I still think it's silly to lose assets for absolutely nothing. If there were no way to protect these guys, I would not mind so much, but it's odd to let players leave to other organizations when there's a very simple mechanism to keep those assets. What exactly are the protection rules for the minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft?
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Post by dcb26 on Dec 8, 2023 18:29:16 GMT -5
Never thought the 38-man roster could get so crowded. Sounds like it's 40+38=78 spots A trade was called for. Those 7 players aren't coming back Are you complaining about minor league phase rule 5 picks? There’s a reason why they weren’t traded, they do not have trade value. I don't want to get into a back and forth or anything but I think a mentality of "they aren't worth much so they're worth nothing" would be a concerning way to look at it, if you're saying that was or should have been the team's perspective. I would be surprised for example if these players were at the absolute bottom of the organization's depth chart.
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Post by patford on Dec 8, 2023 22:40:47 GMT -5
Are you complaining about minor league phase rule 5 picks? There’s a reason why they weren’t traded, they do not have trade value. I don't want to get into a back and forth or anything but I think a mentality of "they aren't worth much so they're worth nothing" would be a concerning way to look at it, if you're saying that was or should have been the team's perspective. I would be surprised for example if these players were at the absolute bottom of the organization's depth chart. On the most recent Pod it was agreed by Chris and Ian that once you get outside the top twenty or so prospects the prospects occupying spaces up to 60 and beyond are much more tightly bunched than the higher ranked prospects. That says to me that if the Sox have open slots they could have filled they are counting on filling them with someone they like better. I'd be stunned if there was no thought put into these Rule 5 decisions both the MLB and the Minors.
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Post by dcsoxfan15 on Dec 8, 2023 22:44:38 GMT -5
Other teams thought they were worth selecting, and I still think it's silly to lose assets for absolutely nothing. If there were no way to protect these guys, I would not mind so much, but it's odd to let players leave to other organizations when there's a very simple mechanism to keep those assets. What exactly are the protection rules for the minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft? Players not on the 38 man AAA roster are eligible to be selected. An earlier comment from James Dunne and another had mentioned that there were 5 empty spots on the roster coming into the draft. I'm sorry to those who don't think minor league losses matter, but it still seems like poor asset management to lose players for absolutely no reason.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,204
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Post by cdj on Dec 8, 2023 22:50:18 GMT -5
You have to have value to be an asset. They lost no assets in the minor league rule 5.
Like what do you think happens when they go up to a team and go “hey what are you gonna give us for Ryan Miller?”
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Post by soxin8 on Dec 8, 2023 23:40:27 GMT -5
MLB.com places Drohan at 19 on the White Sox top 30, Fernandez 26 in STL. Fitts debuts at 10 between Wikelman and Perales and Slaten is 25.
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Post by sparky7576 on Dec 9, 2023 5:34:25 GMT -5
Does anyone have an idea about Mickey Gasper's defensive profile? How about the other 5 catcher's taken in the Minor League portion of the Rule 5 draft? I'd be interested to know. TY 🙏
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,204
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Post by cdj on Dec 9, 2023 10:40:57 GMT -5
Gasper seems like more of a utility guy that can catch than a catcher. Does not handle the running game well at all.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 9, 2023 12:22:42 GMT -5
I'd like to see a short Podcast episode about the players taken from the Rule 5 draft from the Sox Sorry but we have to disappoint you. It's a full length. Check your feeds later today.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 9, 2023 12:37:45 GMT -5
To preview what we'll say - no, these guys didn't have trade value, but they had more open spots on the AAA reserve list than any other team. They could and probably should have protected at least 2 or 3 of those guys.
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Dec 12, 2023 13:38:59 GMT -5
To preview what we'll say - no, these guys didn't have trade value, but they had more open spots on the AAA reserve list than any other team. They could and probably should have protected at least 2 or 3 of those guys. Agreed…..I was just trying to understand why they did not protect more, and the only thing I can think of is that 1) they intent to sign minor league FAs, which leads into 2) they did not want to keep those players and take away playing time from the higher priority, higher ranked prospects…. That is all I can come up with as to why they would not protect those players as 7 of the 63 were picked from the Red Sox!
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,204
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Post by cdj on Dec 12, 2023 13:58:53 GMT -5
the only guy I didn’t like losing was Alexis Hernandez and that’s because he’s shown some interesting qualities so soon after his conversion…I especially don’t like losing him to Toronto. But at the end of the day if he makes it to the high minors that’s a great result for Toronto, so it’s likely no *real* loss…particularly if there are other guys they want to prioritize
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Dec 21, 2023 17:41:03 GMT -5
Are you complaining about minor league phase rule 5 picks? There’s a reason why they weren’t traded, they do not have trade value. The Red Sox had 7 players selected in the Minor League portion of the draft. There were multiple open spots on the AAA roster that could have been used to protect said pieces. Losing them for nothing is a curious decision, and it raises questions about why the front office didn't feel the need to expend the very small amount of energy to protect said players. Maybe they just suck, but those other teams don't seem to think so. There's no need to criticize people or be bewildered about their frustrations over these things. Anyone reading this please correct me if I am wrong, but don’t the Red Sox receive $100,000 per player selected from them in both the Rule 5 primary and secondary drafts. If so, the Red Sox received $900,000 in total, of which $700,000 is from the secondary phase. As none of the secondary phase players were in the top 60 on Soxprospect.com rankings, then I would say the Red Sox got something ($) for players that were clogging up the rosters of those minor league teams which they had other players that are more highly valued. If, as I suspect, more players were taken than the Red Sox brass expected, then they simply sign MILB free agents to fill those rosters and pocket the money for use on other players. Why release the non ranked players, or trade them for other low ranked players. They had value, and it was as cash. As Ian inferred in the last podcast, teams are pushing talented prospects faster these days to get them to the MLB. It is more cost effective to shorten their minor league stays if those players can handle the next level. Teel is the poster boy for the new style ‘prospect express’. MLB here he comes…. The MLB cut the number of minor league teams in recent years, and the draft from 40 to 20 rounds. How many players chosen in rounds 21-40 really ever make it to the MLB let alone make a difference if they get there. The savings to the MLB teams has to be sizable having fewer teams, and fewer players selected. The scouting and information available through technology has to help make the number of players necessary in the minor leagues less. How much do teams like Lowell make vs what the MLB teams spend. I do not know. The bottom line is the Red Sox had room to protect at least some if not the majority of the 9 Rule 5 players selected, but chose not to. In the end, it is probably of little consequence as few if any will have an impact on MLB rosters.
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Post by jphelan on Dec 21, 2023 17:56:46 GMT -5
I found this on the MILB website:
Are there different phases to the Rule 5 Draft?
Yes. There are also Triple-A and Double-A phases to the Rule 5 Draft. Players put on the Triple-A reserve list cost the selecting team $12,000, and players put on the Double-A reserve list cost the selecting team $4,000.
So I don't think there will be as much of a financial windfall
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Dec 21, 2023 18:00:55 GMT -5
I found this on the MILB website: Are there different phases to the Rule 5 Draft? Yes. There are also Triple-A and Double-A phases to the Rule 5 Draft. Players put on the Triple-A reserve list cost the selecting team $12,000, and players put on the Double-A reserve list cost the selecting team $4,000. So I don't think there will be as much of a financial windfall That is not correct! The Rule 5 primary phase is $100,000 per player. I do not know the secondary phase cost (if it is the same or different).
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